[NOT LONGER REQUESTED] Option to NOT collect Tel'var stones

kargen27

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

edward_frigidhands

There would be no point to such an option given the entire idea behind Imperial City PvP.

I would suggest you bank your Telvar often if you intend to not reward people that triumph over you by outnumbering you.

Alternatively, your topic of suggestion could have been to criticize Imperial City PvP incentives as a whole rather than requesting this addition.

Rowjoh

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

I get swarmed in IC by enemy alliances about half the times I go there to complete Telvar endeavors.
It ain't so dead.

yeah it is. Those are the griefers. They also camp quest points, especially during events.

Only a handful of players go IC in between events.

Guilds run IC boss hunts all the time, even outside of events. I’m regularly in IC, and eight times out of ten, I see an enemy zerg circling the city and annihilating everything in its path. The other two times? I’m a part of the zerg.

'an enemy zerg' (singular).... like I said, only a handful of players go IC in between events, and not much more during !

Go check the pop bar whenever you like

Necrotech_Master

kargen27 wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

100% this is the reason why IC died

surface pvp was severely hampered by the restricted respawning based on who owned the flags, so you either zerged, or you sat through extra load screens instead of jumping back into the fray regardless of what was going on

Rowjoh

kargen27 wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

not true at all. IC became a griefers paradise years ago. everyone knows it. Not many people like being griefed on and that's why it is second only to Murkmire as the most unpopular area in the game. simple as.

Here's the thing: Hakeijo's only cost 5k Tel Var each, which takes about 10 minutes to farm if no griefers present. Yet the market value is around 100k! which is dictated by the sheer demand as players prefer to spend this rather than go IC.

Braffin

Rowjoh wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

not true at all. IC became a griefers paradise years ago. everyone knows it. Not many people like being griefed on and that's why it is second only to Murkmire as the most unpopular area in the game. simple as.

Here's the thing: Hakeijo's only cost 5k Tel Var each, which takes about 10 minutes to farm if no griefers present. Yet the market value is around 100k! which is dictated by the sheer demand as players prefer to spend this rather than go IC.

Why exactly is it "griefing" to PvP in a PvP zone? Care to elaborate?

Sheezabeast

I think this might clear up OP's misconception of the zone purpose. This is from ZOS's official guide to IC.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/guides/imperialcitybasics



It is intended to defend your Telvar gains, it is intended to kill players as a source of them. It's in the base design of the zone, from ZOS themselves.

There is sooo much counterplay, including one very basic one, strength in numbers. Prepare, take risks, get rewarded.

Laugh it off, try again, wash rinse repeat. But don't try to say it isn't in the zones intentions, it's factually false, OP.

Carcharodontosaurus

Braffin wrote: »

Why exactly is it "griefing" to PvP in a PvP zone? Care to elaborate?

I don't think pvp killing someone is necessarily griefing, it is a "pvp" zone as you say...

Griefing is deliberately making another person's gaming experience a hostile and unpleasant experience. It can occur in pve and it can occur in pvp.

Personally, I would define IC griefing as continuing to kill a player again and again when it's obvious that they are unable/unwilling to fight back. Or hiding by the entrance and nailing the same person again and again as they come back to deposit. Yes, they're being an idiot falling for the same trap again and again, but that just means you're fighting someone way below your intelligence, skill, and expertise. Yes, you could also say it's on the person being griefed to get good or something and just continue to get dunked on until they get good.

But I think it's unsportsmanlike to keep doing it to the same person. Sure, the game allows it, but it's like stealing candy from a baby. You can do it, but it's quasi-morally wrong. Especially, since you would know that it's unpleasant, especially based on all the threads we seem to have.

It's technically not wrong to play the game in a way the game allows, but I do think it's morally wrong to continue to play in a way that makes the game an unpleasant experience for others once you have notice that it's negatively affecting other people.

I don't agree with removing tel var collecting, but I do think that people ought to be more mindful of how they are impacting other players' gaming experiences. Perhaps diminishing tel var returns for killing the same person in one session of IC? If I recall correctly thats already in place for AP.

It's a pvp zone with pve characteristics, but it's also a pve zone with pvp characteristics.

Braffin

@Carcharodontosaurus sure, I agree with everything you said.

Thing is, the person I referred to seems to generalize by assuming all PvPers in IC are there for griefing, which is simply not true. That's why I asked for clarification.

Most players I know don't attack PvEers which are doing their quests more than once. The occassional griefer will be around, yes (as they are in PvE, for example throwing mudballs to "steal" chests and so on), but that's not the norm. On top of that most PvPers will actively hunt enemy griefers the very moment they are called out in zone.

jle30303

I will put it this way. Which is better:

(1) Collect 1000 Tel Var stones, get killed by another player, lose 500, have 500 left, resurrect at a faction base (whether in the sewers or up on the surface), go back to your Bank at your own base in the Sewers, bank 500 Tel Var stones

(2) Collect no Tel Var stones at all.

From (1), even though you lose 500, you end up with 500 more than you actually started with.

From (2), you end up with 0 more than you started with.

Something is always better than nothing.

Necrotech_Master

Carcharodontosaurus wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Why exactly is it "griefing" to PvP in a PvP zone? Care to elaborate?

I don't think pvp killing someone is necessarily griefing, it is a "pvp" zone as you say...

Griefing is deliberately making another person's gaming experience a hostile and unpleasant experience. It can occur in pve and it can occur in pvp.

Personally, I would define IC griefing as continuing to kill a player again and again when it's obvious that they are unable/unwilling to fight back. Or hiding by the entrance and nailing the same person again and again as they come back to deposit. Yes, they're being an idiot falling for the same trap again and again, but that just means you're fighting someone way below your intelligence, skill, and expertise. Yes, you could also say it's on the person being griefed to get good or something and just continue to get dunked on until they get good.

But I think it's unsportsmanlike to keep doing it to the same person. Sure, the game allows it, but it's like stealing candy from a baby. You can do it, but it's quasi-morally wrong. Especially, since you would know that it's unpleasant, especially based on all the threads we seem to have.

It's technically not wrong to play the game in a way the game allows, but I do think it's morally wrong to continue to play in a way that makes the game an unpleasant experience for others once you have notice that it's negatively affecting other people.

I don't agree with removing tel var collecting, but I do think that people ought to be more mindful of how they are impacting other players' gaming experiences. Perhaps diminishing tel var returns for killing the same person in one session of IC? If I recall correctly thats already in place for AP.

It's a pvp zone with pve characteristics, but it's also a pve zone with pvp characteristics.

there kind of is diminished tel var returns for killing the same person, because they have less after you killed them lol

what i think are the biggest pitfalls is people not used to IC banking tel var, or forgetting they have tel var on them (such as what is collected from the daily login rewards), or plain not understanding how tel var works to begin with

the biggest grief i could see is purposely camping questing objectives, or hunting players that likely have no tel var (such as questers), as this does nothing but frustrate the quester and you get nothing but AP out of the kill

mattaeus01b16_ESO

Carcharodontosaurus wrote: »

Yes, they're being an idiot falling for the same trap again and again, but that just means you're fighting someone way below your intelligence

And afterwards, we are heading to the kindergarten room to REALLY KICK SOME BUTT!
Not sure why you don't just use the R word right there... Seems that's what you are implying.

When people go out of there way to farm others that are unaware of how to defend themselves or don't have the gear or the skill set to avoid from being ganked.. Then its the ganker that's in the wrong. It doesn't make your target of BELOW YOUR INTELLIGENCE. And very probably makes your ganker someone that has Borderline Narcissist Personality traits.

There is no road map in the game on how to PvP effectively or how to PvP at all. ESO grooms sheep to send to the slaughter and expects everyone to have a good time, and they market it that way as well. Expecting them to source their own help and learn better for next year. But for the majority, there is no next year, because their experience was so dismal and toxic, that they will never return.

And this is fine with the PvPers... WHY? Cause it leaves them open to farm Telvar from more accessible sources like Zone Bosses.

With that aside. Yes, there are people that go there for the PvP looking for a challenge as well as farm Telvar. And yes, they can recognize when a PvEer is there just trying to learn or have fun or just get that damn quest out of the way. And they leave them alone. But more then often, you come across the same personality "Im going to kill them until they leave, or they get good while profiting off of them". And those are the people that they will remember... not the ones that leave them be. And thats why I say its a cesspool or toxic sludge.

emilyhyoyeon

I saw someone mention this earlier in the thread, but the amount of load screens/how the respawning works is also pretty frustrating, and I like pvp, so I can only imagine how annoying it is for someone who doesn't.

One of the things I don't get is that when you're killed, you have the option to pick a district you own to respawn in, or ''return'' or whatever the word is. The return option sounds like it brings you back to base, but it doesn't, if you own at least one of the districts. When I'm trying to do stuff in Elven Gardens, and my alliance owns some other district, I'm forced to go back to that one, then go back down the trapdoor into base, then go back up to Elven Gardens, instead of just being able to immediately respawn in the sewers and save myself the time.

OP's originally talking about tel var, but I can't help but think that making the respawn process less annoying wouldn't help frustrated players, PVEers or not.

Necrotech_Master

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

I saw someone mention this earlier in the thread, but the amount of load screens/how the respawning works is also pretty frustrating, and I like pvp, so I can only imagine how annoying it is for someone who doesn't.

One of the things I don't get is that when you're killed, you have the option to pick a district you own to respawn in, or ''return'' or whatever the word is. The return option sounds like it brings you back to base, but it doesn't, if you own at least one of the districts. When I'm trying to do stuff in Elven Gardens, and my alliance owns some other district, I'm forced to go back to that one, then go back down the trapdoor into base, then go back up to Elven Gardens, instead of just being able to immediately respawn in the sewers and save myself the time.

OP's originally talking about tel var, but I can't help but think that making the respawn process less annoying wouldn't help frustrated players, PVEers or not.

"release" is back to the nearest allied faction controlled district (if your on the surface) or back to the sewer base (if your in the sewer, or your faction has no districts controlled on the surface)

thats part of where the extra load screens come in, if your faction has no control over the surface, thats 2 load screens to get back to the surface (one load back down to sewer base, one load back to surface) (and this is because zos though it was a good idea to tie respawning to owning the district)

VaranisArano

Rowjoh wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

not true at all. IC became a griefers paradise years ago. everyone knows it. Not many people like being griefed on and that's why it is second only to Murkmire as the most unpopular area in the game. simple as.

You've got your chronology backwards.

Imperial City was extremely popular with PVPers at launch. Think sprawling, brawling fights across the Districts. Pitched battles in the arena for no reason but the joy of the fight. In the years before the Cyrodiil pop caps got slashed, it also used to be common for the Emperor to lead a group to farm Tel Var in Imperial City before reemerging to defend their title.

They are completely correct that from a PVPers' perspective, the reason why Imperial City died was that the flag respawn changes made it impossible to have those sprawling, brawling fights.

Like, I can appreciate the argument that most non-PVP players don't enjoy griefing, but that does not explain why PVPers themselves stopped playing in it. PVPers are used to fighting gankers. And most gankers are not suited to fight in a sprawling, brawling battle.

PVPers stopped coming because the flag changes meant they couldn't get good PVP fights anymore. They moved back to battling for Cyrodiil's keeps or eventually they went to Battlegrounds. And once they left, there wasn't much left but Tel Var farmers and the gankers who hunt them.

And once all that's left is the gankers, of course its not going to be popular with non-PVPers.

Necrotech_Master

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

not true at all. IC became a griefers paradise years ago. everyone knows it. Not many people like being griefed on and that's why it is second only to Murkmire as the most unpopular area in the game. simple as.

You've got your chronology backwards.

Imperial City was extremely popular with PVPers at launch. Think sprawling, brawling fights across the Districts. Pitched battles in the arena for no reason but the joy of the fight. In the years before the Cyrodiil pop caps got slashed, it also used to be common for the Emperor to lead a group to farm Tel Var in Imperial City before reemerging to defend their title.

They are completely correct that from a PVPers' perspective, the reason why Imperial City died was that the flag respawn changes made it impossible to have those sprawling, brawling fights.

Like, I can appreciate the argument that most non-PVP players don't enjoy griefing, but that does not explain why PVPers themselves stopped playing in it. PVPers are used to fighting gankers. And most gankers are not suited to fight in a sprawling, brawling battle.

PVPers stopped coming because the flag changes meant they couldn't get good PVP fights anymore. They moved back to battling for Cyrodiil's keeps or eventually they went to Battlegrounds. And once they left, there wasn't much left but Tel Var farmers and the gankers who hunt them.

And once all that's left is the gankers, of course its not going to be popular with non-PVPers.

thats the way i always remembered it, sewers was mostly for your pve farming outside of the occasional ganker, and the surface was if you wanted pvp

its still like that mostly, but its far more difficult to have enjoyable pvp with the limited respawning in the districts

if they decoupled the flags and respawning, it would probably make it more lively

Tommy_The_Gun

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Imperial city is a risk reward arena and is working as intended

Right.... as intended...

...That is why it is almost always dead empty. Even during events. And if it is populated, then it is usually one faction locked, while other factions occupy other IC campaigns. It is very obvious how much the majority of players likes PvP in IC.

Not trying to bait, but I just doubt it is working as intended. I mean, what Dev would want their content to be dead ?

Cazador

An easy solution to this would be to just put away any tel var you have before going in. Sure you may gain a couple hundred from mobs but you aren't really risking anything then. No change to IC is needed.

VaranisArano

mattaeus01b16_ESO wrote: »

Carcharodontosaurus wrote: »

Yes, they're being an idiot falling for the same trap again and again, but that just means you're fighting someone way below your intelligence

There is no road map in the game on how to PvP effectively or how to PvP at all. ESO grooms sheep to send to the slaughter and expects everyone to have a good time, and they market it that way as well. Expecting them to source their own help and learn better for next year. But for the majority, there is no next year, because their experience was so dismal and toxic, that they will never return.

And this is fine with the PvPers... WHY? Cause it leaves them open to farm Telvar from more accessible sources like Zone Bosses.

You're right that ZOS doesn't provide a road map for players to PVP effectively. To be fair, there's also no real road map in PVE that'll guarantee you're effective at anything harder than a normal dungeon, so I'm not sure that's a unique problem to PVP. As most PVEers know, it takes practice to "get good" at your DPS rotation or boss mechanics too. A lot of PVEers end up sourcing their own help from content creators and their guildmates, just like PVPers do.

ZOS also put together a fantastic list of Community Guides for a past Whitestrake's Mayhem. The specific rewards and builds have probably changed, but the tactics will be sound. https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/62593 Or, you could always look at what those content creators put out this year.

Shameless self-promotion time: Whitestrake's Mayhem 101 Its aimed at non-PVPers, because that's how I started.

Its, uh, also my experience from past Mayhem discussions like these that there's a fairly substantial group of PVE-preferring players who don't prepare or won't prepare, no matter how many guides or tips are offered. Predictably, this does not work out well for them and its not just the fault of those mean ol' meanie PVPers.

I've got a couple mantras I go by when I'm questing in Cyrodiil and Imperial City:

It's okay to die. Everyone dies in PVP. Especially the PVPers.

Its okay to not beat my head into a brick wall. If I can't beat that player at my current level of skill, there's another way to get that event ticket.

If I go in with a bad attitude or start blaming the enemy for being the enemy, I'm not going to have fun. If I go in with a good attitude, I'm a lot more likely to have fun with my success and laugh off the failures.

VaranisArano

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Imperial city is a risk reward arena and is working as intended

Right.... as intended...

...That is why it is almost always dead empty. Even during events. And if it is populated, then it is usually one faction locked, while other factions occupy other IC campaigns. It is very obvious how much the majority of players likes PvP in IC.

Not trying to bait, but I just doubt it is working as intended. I mean, what Dev would want their content to be dead ?

These are the same Devs who created Dragon Hunts and Harrowstorms...

I know it seems a bit odd to me, but I honestly think the Devs are okay with content that only gets done on soon after launch and thereafter only when the rewards are good enough, which is why we see Events and Endeavors rotate through a lot of old content and antiquity leads get placed in all sorts of places that aren't part of most people's normal gameplay. Content doesn't necessarily have to be at high levels of use all the time, so long as players go when the rewards are good enough. And that's exactly what we see right now during Mayhem. Event Rewards = even players who dislike IC are going there.

For another example, I remember the kerfuffle when PVE players realized that one of the leads for Malacath's Band of Brutality was in Imperial CIty. There were the same set of complaints then. I'm sure there was a brief surge in IC's population until most people got what they wanted. That seems to be fine with ZOS?

mochizx

Easy solution: Bank 50% of the telvar left after U got ganked initially to prevent enemy keep taking advantage of an ez target like u. Either go to something else or swap to a different campaign where ur faction has more control over the IC map.

[snip] accept that PVP is part of ESO gameplay

[edited for baiting]

kargen27

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

not true at all. IC became a griefers paradise years ago. everyone knows it. Not many people like being griefed on and that's why it is second only to Murkmire as the most unpopular area in the game. simple as.

You've got your chronology backwards.

Imperial City was extremely popular with PVPers at launch. Think sprawling, brawling fights across the Districts. Pitched battles in the arena for no reason but the joy of the fight. In the years before the Cyrodiil pop caps got slashed, it also used to be common for the Emperor to lead a group to farm Tel Var in Imperial City before reemerging to defend their title.

They are completely correct that from a PVPers' perspective, the reason why Imperial City died was that the flag respawn changes made it impossible to have those sprawling, brawling fights.

Like, I can appreciate the argument that most non-PVP players don't enjoy griefing, but that does not explain why PVPers themselves stopped playing in it. PVPers are used to fighting gankers. And most gankers are not suited to fight in a sprawling, brawling battle.

PVPers stopped coming because the flag changes meant they couldn't get good PVP fights anymore. They moved back to battling for Cyrodiil's keeps or eventually they went to Battlegrounds. And once they left, there wasn't much left but Tel Var farmers and the gankers who hunt them.

And once all that's left is the gankers, of course its not going to be popular with non-PVPers.

thats the way i always remembered it, sewers was mostly for your pve farming outside of the occasional ganker, and the surface was if you wanted pvp

its still like that mostly, but its far more difficult to have enjoyable pvp with the limited respawning in the districts

if they decoupled the flags and respawning, it would probably make it more lively

I've suggested once a month they have a weekend long event where the flag is disabled in one district. Any player that dies in that district spawns on their alliance porch in that district. That way the fight is on equal footing.

SeaGtGruff

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

There's a big difference between banking tel var stones (which is fine) and opting out of earning them in the first place, which is spiteful (and what you appear to be asking for).

No, there isn't. And the requested change would never happen, anyway, so this whole aegument is utterless pointless.

The following is heavily paraphrasing but I think it's basically the way this comes across to me:

OP: "I want the option to not earn any TV in IC."

Some posters: "You want to deliberately deprive players who are better than you from being able to collect their justly-earned rewards when they kill you? How spiteful!"

Me: "So I guess you think that anyone who's just banked all of their TV before heading into IC, or who has already lost all of their TV to other players, is somehow being spiteful because you apparently feel like players are obligated to be carrying TV around with them in IC so other players can reap their justly-earned rewards?"

Sorry, but in my opinion that is exactly the gist of your objections-- that anyone who is not carrying TV around with them in IC, for whatever reason, is being spiteful because they are depriving other players from getting some specific reward that they want. And note that they would still get AP and XP, but apparently that isn't good enough-- they absolutely must never, ever be deprived of getting TV off of the players they kill... apparently. So in that case, you'd better get busy and start lobbying ZOS to remove the option to bank TV from their game, because apparently banking ones TV is a big, fat NO-NO.

Braffin

@SeaGtGruff, I think the excitement is more about the suggestion here in forums, as nobody really believes this change would ever go live. On the other side OP clearly spoke out of frustration so no big deal either way. And I've to admit, I somehow like OPs idea, it's definitely a more refined form of sarcastic malicious joy.

And yeah, technically is not much difference between banking tel-var (as you can leave anytime, not just in base) and refusing to earn them in the first place. Zero tel-var are zero tel-var.

kargen27

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

There's a big difference between banking tel var stones (which is fine) and opting out of earning them in the first place, which is spiteful (and what you appear to be asking for).

Me: "So I guess you think that anyone who's just banked all of their TV before heading into IC, or who has already lost all of their TV to other players, is somehow being spiteful because you apparently feel like players are obligated to be carrying TV around with them in IC so other players can reap their justly-earned rewards?"

You are skipping the part where you have to get those stones back to the bank. If you collect and deposit your stones you won that round of PvP. If you collect then lose half you lost that round.

SeaGtGruff

kargen27 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

How is that not spitefull to thwart other players doing the zone quests (hint: part of game design)?

Yes, PvP and questing: two parts of the IC design that you cannot unpick. It's what makes the content unique. When you go out to quest in IC, you do so while PVPing whether you like it or not. There is no opt-out. Your request is based on a sentiment of being wronged, but you're not. Not in any way.

Also, more simply, engaging in PvP in a PvP zone is just playing the game the way it's meant to be played. There's (generally) no malice there.

On the other hand, intentionally forgoing rewards just to deny someone else those same rewards is pretty much the definition of spiteful.

ROFL. Darn players that put their telvars in the bank... how spiteful of them. Your argument is pretty inconsistent.

There's a big difference between banking tel var stones (which is fine) and opting out of earning them in the first place, which is spiteful (and what you appear to be asking for).

Me: "So I guess you think that anyone who's just banked all of their TV before heading into IC, or who has already lost all of their TV to other players, is somehow being spiteful because you apparently feel like players are obligated to be carrying TV around with them in IC so other players can reap their justly-earned rewards?"

You are skipping the part where you have to get those stones back to the bank. If you collect and deposit your stones you won that round of PvP. If you collect then lose half you lost that round.

And you are skipping the part where I put my TV in the bank AND WHY. According to my reading of the objections that some people have to the OP's request, I did it out of MALICIOUS SPITE. And I'm perfectly okay with them saying that as long as they can successfully convince ZOS to remove the ability to bank TV in the first place-- because, ya kniw, we can't be denying those PvP players their justly-earned and well-deserved spoils, now can we?

Rowjoh

Braffin wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

No one goes to IC for the Kill 40 players mission, Kill 20 of a class, the endeavors or for titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings etc.

Pardon?

I've done Kill 40 and sometimes Kill 20 (especially if it's Kill 20 Arcanists) every day in Imperial City during this event and the last. And those kills absolutely count towards your Alliance rank, give you AP, endeavors, titles, dyes, furnishings, achievements, polymorphs, costumes, face markings and the like.

I've got over 200 million AP in the bank, but only a few million tel var... so I leave Cyrodiil during double TV events and focus on the city. I guess that makes me "No one," but I'm ok with that.

Events are obviously the exception lol. And you might even be the exception that proves the rule.

But that not withstanding, for 11 months of the year IC is virtually empty, 'cept for the griefers (and one or two exceptions), so bragging about your wealth is irrelevant in the context of this thread and the reality of what Imperial City unfortunately represents.

The point is that people who don't know want to tell others how how things are, but people who actually know have to set the record straight to stop the spread of misinformation. So context is indeed relevant.

It's 'misinformation' now?

Back on topic, the reason Imperial City is a dead zone for most of the year is that it's a haven for griefers and whether you have Tel Var or not makes no difference at all to the obvious and predictable outcomes.

Anyone who has been given 'misinformation' can easily go there and find out for themselves

Nah the reason it is a dead zone is the lack of incentive to go there. When they introduced flags to the zones the big fights went away. The faction with the flag holds the advantage as they can spawn into the zone while the other factions have to go through two loading screens to get back to the fight. That is a major reason Imperial City population dwindled.

not true at all. IC became a griefers paradise years ago. everyone knows it. Not many people like being griefed on and that's why it is second only to Murkmire as the most unpopular area in the game. simple as.

Here's the thing: Hakeijo's only cost 5k Tel Var each, which takes about 10 minutes to farm if no griefers present. Yet the market value is around 100k! which is dictated by the sheer demand as players prefer to spend this rather than go IC.

Why exactly is it "griefing" to PvP in a PvP zone? Care to elaborate?

Sure.

A griefer derives pleasure primarily, or exclusively, from the act of annoying other players, and as such, is a particular nuisance and spoils the gaming experience for others.

Getting killed in PVP is part and parcel, but becomes griefing when someone or a gang repeatedly targets and kills a player, typically weaker than them, for no particular reason or little to no gain.

An example: Players (griefers) camping quest points and killing players in dialogue with NPC's then T-bagging/laughing emoji.

In real life it's called bullying.

ArchangelIsraphel

You do realize that what you are requesting is a broken mechanic, right?

If a player can still kill/be killed or kill mobs, but not gain or loose telvar, then you are capable of messing around with IC objectives while not actively participating in the mechanics of IC.

Why should you, who choses not to carry tel var, be able to flip a district for your faction without being rewarding to kill if you get caught doing it?

Why should you, who chooses not to carry tel var, be able to kill district bosses and let the tel var they drop go to waste, while players who actually want to participate in the mechanics need to keep searching for those bosses, but can't find them because a "no telvar" group killed them to troll?

Why should you get the telvar rewards and benefits from quest reward boxes if you choose not to actively participate in the mechanics of risk/reward that define IC?

Why should you even get tickets?

I don't even enjoy IC as a pvp mode very much, but I wouldn't want someone with the ability to completely troll the districts running around, messing with objectives, with nothing to loose because they're "safe" from the people who legitimately want to play in this game mode.

And no, banking your tel-var is not the same as being able to go to IC and completely waste a boss others could have killed who don't want a free pass through IC.

AnduinTryggva

Braffin wrote: »

Why exactly is it "griefing" to PvP in a PvP zone? Care to elaborate?

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

You do realize that what you are requesting is a broken mechanic, right?

If a player can still kill/be killed or kill mobs, but not gain or loose telvar, then you are capable of messing around with IC objectives while not actively participating in the mechanics of IC.

Why should you, who choses not to carry tel var, be able to flip a district for your faction without being rewarding to kill if you get caught doing it?

Why should you, who chooses not to carry tel var, be able to kill district bosses and let the tel var they drop go to waste, while players who actually want to participate in the mechanics need to keep searching for those bosses, but can't find them because a "no telvar" group killed them to troll?

Why should you get the telvar rewards and benefits from quest reward boxes if you choose not to actively participate in the mechanics of risk/reward that define IC?

Why should you even get tickets?

I don't even enjoy IC as a pvp mode very much, but I wouldn't want someone with the ability to completely troll the districts running around, messing with objectives, with nothing to loose because they're "safe" from the people who legitimately want to play in this game mode.

And no, banking your tel-var is not the same as being able to go to IC and completely waste a boss others could have killed who don't want a free pass through IC.

Have you read the proposal thru? If you disable telvar collection you ONLY can do the district quests. Nothing else and nothing PvP relevant.

Overall I would be happy if gankers and griefers would have to carry a higher risk. Force everybody to run around with 1000 telvar min or so before entering a district. This could populate the sewers also a bit further.

Braffin

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Why exactly is it "griefing" to PvP in a PvP zone? Care to elaborate?

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

You do realize that what you are requesting is a broken mechanic, right?

If a player can still kill/be killed or kill mobs, but not gain or loose telvar, then you are capable of messing around with IC objectives while not actively participating in the mechanics of IC.

Why should you, who choses not to carry tel var, be able to flip a district for your faction without being rewarding to kill if you get caught doing it?

Why should you, who chooses not to carry tel var, be able to kill district bosses and let the tel var they drop go to waste, while players who actually want to participate in the mechanics need to keep searching for those bosses, but can't find them because a "no telvar" group killed them to troll?

Why should you get the telvar rewards and benefits from quest reward boxes if you choose not to actively participate in the mechanics of risk/reward that define IC?

Why should you even get tickets?

I don't even enjoy IC as a pvp mode very much, but I wouldn't want someone with the ability to completely troll the districts running around, messing with objectives, with nothing to loose because they're "safe" from the people who legitimately want to play in this game mode.

And no, banking your tel-var is not the same as being able to go to IC and completely waste a boss others could have killed who don't want a free pass through IC.

Have you read the proposal thru? If you disable telvar collection you ONLY can do the district quests. Nothing else and nothing PvP relevant.

Overall I would be happy if gankers and griefers would have to carry a higher risk. Force everybody to run around with 1000 telvar min or so before entering a district. This could populate the sewers also a bit further.

Sure I read your suggestion, but my question referred to another player's assumption griefers were the only sort of players doing PvP in IC, which is simply not true regardless the bad state of this zone.

And I like the idea of a minimum tel-var carry to enter districts. Combined with removal of flags and the inability to leave the district by porting outside home base it could repopulate IC.