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Class Change Tokens - Request Number 73,276
-
Tyrobag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
This is so incorrect its mindboggling. Did you even look at the opening post, or any of the others for that matter? My character (who is one of the first I made) is already themed as an Arcanist. Please explain how changing him into an Arcanist proper would change him in any way other than making his actual powers match the fantasy. Most of the people who want a class change aren't flavor of the month people just wanting to switch to the latest class. That would be incredibly stupid to do, since you'd be better off just having one of each class fully leveled. People like myself want to be able to keep their characters without having to replay hundreds of hours of quests on what is effectively the same character. (As a note to any ZoS marketing guys that are drooling over the extra playtime, I guarantee you that I will not make any purchases during that time. Meanwhile I'd gladly shell out for a class change.)
As far as your complaint about your opinion of how you think other people should play RPGs:
1. Have you ever played another TES game? You can completely change direction halfway through the game (very easily in Skyrim)
2. How, in any way, does it affect you to let somebody else play their way? Please do tell. I'm very interested in the blight my personal decisions have wrought upon you.6 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I personally wouldn't use it, as I have enough alts and changing their classes around isn't fitting my playstyle.
But I see not a single reason not to support the introduction of this simple QoL feature. Nobody is harmed if another player is changing class on one of his toons.
I hope for you all it will be possible someday, although I doubt it will happen anytime soon.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As far as your complaint about your opinion of how you think other people should play RPGs:
1. Have you ever played another TES game? You can completely change direction halfway through the game (very easily in Skyrim)
2. How, in any way, does it affect you to let somebody else play their way? Please do tell. I'm very interested in the blight my personal decisions have wrought upon you.
I have played thousands of hours of Skyrim. I wish that ESO was an open skill system, like Skyrim, but it is a rigid class system.
My comments are about whether something should be offered in the game, not about whether I would use it or whether I want to deny people some option to play their way. There are a great many things that I think should not be in this game, and two of them are Class Change Tokens and Race Change Tokens. Both for RPG reasons.
I don't know what you are worried about, though. ZOS never follows my direction.
1 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
This is so incorrect its mindboggling. Did you even look at the opening post, or any of the others for that matter? My character (who is one of the first I made) is already themed as an Arcanist. Please explain how changing him into an Arcanist proper would change him in any way other than making his actual powers match the fantasy. Most of the people who want a class change aren't flavor of the month people just wanting to switch to the latest class. That would be incredibly stupid to do, since you'd be better off just having one of each class fully leveled. People like myself want to be able to keep their characters without having to replay hundreds of hours of quests on what is effectively the same character. (As a note to any ZoS marketing guys that are drooling over the extra playtime, I guarantee you that I will not make any purchases during that time. Meanwhile I'd gladly shell out for a class change.)
As far as your complaint about your opinion of how you think other people should play RPGs:
1. Have you ever played another TES game? You can completely change direction halfway through the game (very easily in Skyrim)
2. How, in any way, does it affect you to let somebody else play their way? Please do tell. I'm very interested in the blight my personal decisions have wrought upon you.
I could not have worded it better.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".6 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".
Just out of curiosity, as I'm otherwise not personally affected by this topic (I've toons of all classes and can do FOTM as much as I want), how exactly would it worsen the gaming experience for anyone if some other player is using a class change token?
I can understand the argument regarding development resources and also share this to some extent (although there has to be considered, how many players are asking for this QoL-feature. seem to be a freaking lot), but otherwise I simply can't imagine any problems implementing it.
Especially the argument regarding trivialization of character development seems flawed because the very same argument could be used to revert AwA (something you would like to see) or casualization of combat (something you probably refuse to see).
Regarding the argument that character change tokens "would harm the future longevity of the game" we have to state, that the very same argument was brought up against AwA, but nothing like that happened, when this broadly demanded feature arrived. On the contrary, the game is doing still very well.
Another example: When U35 arrived some people were jumping in the air with joy, as they assumed lots of endgame players would leave, so more development resources could be spent in service of their personal liking. Now we see this very same people arguing against a broadly demanded change.
So I politely ask for concrete reasons which are standing against a imo harmless QoL-feature, instead of hiding behind general statements.Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.6 -
drakhan2002_ESO✭✭✭✭✭...As a note to any ZoS marketing guys that are drooling over the extra playtime, I guarantee you that I will not make any purchases during that time. .
1) ZoS marketing guys most likely don't read these long walls of text complaining about the game
2) ZoS marketing guys probably don't care
You're not getting a class change token any time soon - be like a U.S. Navy SEAL and "embrace the suck". You'll stop worrying about the issue and get busy like the rest of us making and leveling a new character.0 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".
Just out of curiosity, as I'm otherwise not personally affected by this topic (I've toons of all classes and can do FOTM as much as I want), how exactly would it worsen the gaming experience for anyone if some other player is using a class change token?
I can understand the argument regarding development resources and also share this to some extent (although there has to be considered, how many players are asking for this QoL-feature. seem to be a freaking lot), but otherwise I simply can't imagine any problems implementing it.
Especially the argument regarding trivialization of character development seems flawed because the very same argument could be used to revert AwA (something you would like to see) or casualization of combat (something you probably refuse to see).
Regarding the argument that character change tokens "would harm the future longevity of the game" we have to state, that the very same argument was brought up against AwA, but nothing like that happened, when this broadly demanded feature arrived. On the contrary, the game is doing still very well.
Another example: When U35 arrived some people were jumping in the air with joy, as they assumed lots of endgame players would leave, so more development resources could be spent in service of their personal liking. Now we see this very same people arguing against a broadly demanded change.
So I politely ask for concrete reasons which are standing against a imo harmless QoL-feature, instead of hiding behind general statements.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily hold these opinions but here are the concerns that I feel a reasonable person could have.
1) the further monetization of the game, because let's be honest such a token will be monetized and likely the most expensive token of its kind, and possibly non gift able. Thus creating a pay wall.
2) the further trivilization of the illusion of choice that is offered in this game. That fewer and fewer of the choices you make have any impact on how you play.
3) that when it comes to changes that players request heavily on the forums and elsewhere, when it comes time to implement it, zos rare does so in such a way that players requested or wanted them to do it. Examples include: update 35, awa, proc sets in pvp, animation fixes for skills, players ignoring objectives in battlegrounds, tales of tribute, skyshards being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, skill lines being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, outfit tokens being character specific, WW and vampire cures being in the store, Crown crates, implantation of color changing for aoe's and thinking that acts the same as a colorblind mode, and one of the oldest requests and most discussed topic on the forums the auction house solution.
1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
Zos let's you bypass old content though. You can do Necrom right away without having to do any prior questing. With awa and item set collecting you don't have to farm any gear and any achievements that matter to end game players carry over. The only thing you would have to do is create a new character and with the right methods and preparations, you can have it in the cp range in a few hours without spending your or anyone else's irl money.2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
Given that zos has indicated that they are not working on this and that they haven't been, and have no plans to, any such implementation in the immediate future would be rushed, and anything with a reasonable release date wouldn't be acceptable to the community.
I would add that whether or not a company decides to offer, develop, or release a product or service a customer requests is not necessarily a customer service/support issue. In this case its not a service issue. A class change token is a product/service you want, zos doesn't offer it. That is a development issue. A service issue would be if you used, hypothetically, an alliance change token and all your crowns disappeared and zos support did nothing to resolve the issue.2 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".
Just out of curiosity, as I'm otherwise not personally affected by this topic (I've toons of all classes and can do FOTM as much as I want), how exactly would it worsen the gaming experience for anyone if some other player is using a class change token?
I can understand the argument regarding development resources and also share this to some extent (although there has to be considered, how many players are asking for this QoL-feature. seem to be a freaking lot), but otherwise I simply can't imagine any problems implementing it.
Especially the argument regarding trivialization of character development seems flawed because the very same argument could be used to revert AwA (something you would like to see) or casualization of combat (something you probably refuse to see).
Regarding the argument that character change tokens "would harm the future longevity of the game" we have to state, that the very same argument was brought up against AwA, but nothing like that happened, when this broadly demanded feature arrived. On the contrary, the game is doing still very well.
Another example: When U35 arrived some people were jumping in the air with joy, as they assumed lots of endgame players would leave, so more development resources could be spent in service of their personal liking. Now we see this very same people arguing against a broadly demanded change.
So I politely ask for concrete reasons which are standing against a imo harmless QoL-feature, instead of hiding behind general statements.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily hold these opinions but here are the concerns that I feel a reasonable person could have.
1) the further monetization of the game, because let's be honest such a token will be monetized and likely the most expensive token of its kind, and possibly non gift able. Thus creating a pay wall.
2) the further trivilization of the illusion of choice that is offered in this game. That fewer and fewer of the choices you make have any impact on how you play.
3) that when it comes to changes that players request heavily on the forums and elsewhere, when it comes time to implement it, zos rare does so in such a way that players requested or wanted them to do it. Examples include: update 35, awa, proc sets in pvp, animation fixes for skills, players ignoring objectives in battlegrounds, tales of tribute, skyshards being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, skill lines being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, outfit tokens being character specific, WW and vampire cures being in the store, Crown crates, implantation of color changing for aoe's and thinking that acts the same as a colorblind mode, and one of the oldest requests and most discussed topic on the forums the auction house solution.
1. By not allowing a class change, we are forced to spend an ungodly amount of time, which is very anti customer QoL, or spend a bunch of money, MORE money than a class change would cost, so this is not true.
2. Again, more choices, do not mean less choices, thats just silly.
3. So they should ignore the playerbase more, because they ignored them in the past, thats some logic.0 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
Given that zos has indicated that they are not working on this and that they haven't been, and have no plans to, any such implementation in the immediate future would be rushed, and anything with a reasonable release date wouldn't be acceptable to the community.
I would add that whether or not a company decides to offer, develop, or release a product or service a customer requests is not necessarily a customer service/support issue. In this case its not a service issue. A class change token is a product/service you want, zos doesn't offer it. That is a development issue. A service issue would be if you used, hypothetically, an alliance change token and all your crowns disappeared and zos support did nothing to resolve the issue.
They said the same thing about race changes, and they said the same thing about alliance changes. Yet we got them. So obviously it isnt THAT difficult, it simply is a cop out.3 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
Zos let's you bypass old content though. You can do Necrom right away without having to do any prior questing. With awa and item set collecting you don't have to farm any gear and any achievements that matter to end game players carry over. The only thing you would have to do is create a new character and with the right methods and preparations, you can have it in the cp range in a few hours without spending your or anyone else's irl money.
Still ignoring the rp aspect in an rpg, and ignoring emotional attachment.5 -
M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭Race change tokens NOT needed IMO. ZoS are giving us a free character slow with Necrom.
I would find class changing a character made it a character-less blob. Plus I include in my completionism having at least 1 of each class.
How would ZoS handle the levelling of the class skill lines? Surely people don't expect that they will just be given them fully levelled? The alternative is that the new class skill lines would have to be levelled and then you're stuck with a CP level character with lowbie class skills - which isn't great.
Honestly it does not take that long to level a new character, especially if you make training gear and use some of the many XP scrolls that we get for daily login rewards. And I may choose to start my new Archanist in one of the new zones and do the zone quests there.
I'm really looking forward to levelling the new character with the new class from scratch.2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
Zos let's you bypass old content though. You can do Necrom right away without having to do any prior questing. With awa and item set collecting you don't have to farm any gear and any achievements that matter to end game players carry over. The only thing you would have to do is create a new character and with the right methods and preparations, you can have it in the cp range in a few hours without spending your or anyone else's irl money.
Still ignoring the rp aspect in an rpg, and ignoring emotional attachment.
Zos killed a lot of rpg and emotional attachments when they rolled out account wide achievements. [snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 4 June 2023 15:534 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".
Just out of curiosity, as I'm otherwise not personally affected by this topic (I've toons of all classes and can do FOTM as much as I want), how exactly would it worsen the gaming experience for anyone if some other player is using a class change token?
I can understand the argument regarding development resources and also share this to some extent (although there has to be considered, how many players are asking for this QoL-feature. seem to be a freaking lot), but otherwise I simply can't imagine any problems implementing it.
Especially the argument regarding trivialization of character development seems flawed because the very same argument could be used to revert AwA (something you would like to see) or casualization of combat (something you probably refuse to see).
Regarding the argument that character change tokens "would harm the future longevity of the game" we have to state, that the very same argument was brought up against AwA, but nothing like that happened, when this broadly demanded feature arrived. On the contrary, the game is doing still very well.
Another example: When U35 arrived some people were jumping in the air with joy, as they assumed lots of endgame players would leave, so more development resources could be spent in service of their personal liking. Now we see this very same people arguing against a broadly demanded change.
So I politely ask for concrete reasons which are standing against a imo harmless QoL-feature, instead of hiding behind general statements.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily hold these opinions but here are the concerns that I feel a reasonable person could have.
1) the further monetization of the game, because let's be honest such a token will be monetized and likely the most expensive token of its kind, and possibly non gift able. Thus creating a pay wall.
2) the further trivilization of the illusion of choice that is offered in this game. That fewer and fewer of the choices you make have any impact on how you play.
3) that when it comes to changes that players request heavily on the forums and elsewhere, when it comes time to implement it, zos rare does so in such a way that players requested or wanted them to do it. Examples include: update 35, awa, proc sets in pvp, animation fixes for skills, players ignoring objectives in battlegrounds, tales of tribute, skyshards being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, skill lines being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, outfit tokens being character specific, WW and vampire cures being in the store, Crown crates, implantation of color changing for aoe's and thinking that acts the same as a colorblind mode, and one of the oldest requests and most discussed topic on the forums the auction house solution.
1. By not allowing a class change, we are forced to spend an ungodly amount of time, which is very anti customer QoL, or spend a bunch of money, MORE money than a class change would cost, so this is not true.
2. Again, more choices, do not mean less choices, thats just silly.
3. So they should ignore the playerbase more, because they ignored them in the past, thats some logic.
1) you don't know how much zos would charge for a class change item so it's hard to argue the point it could be 1 crown it could be 25k crowns zos sets the price, and we don't know that.
2) I don't think you understood the point. For rpg elements to matter choices have to at least appear to matter in an rpg game. One of the few decisions like that in eso that truly factors in to how you play is class selection. My point about this was not about the amount of choices to make, it was about trivilizing those choices so that they don't have the same impact anymore. Zos has sent clear indications that they view you the player as a character playing an avatar vs individualized characters playing a game. And yes there is a difference, as an avatar is disposable and replaceable.
3) you missed the point, it's not that they ignored the playerbased. They listened to the player base, and then instead of creating something identical to the heart of the request, they altered said request to make it worse off than if they had continued to ignored it in the first place. Crown skyshards was a monetized response to account-wide skyshard collection.
Look at the end of the day I really don't care if they roll this out or not. What I am trying to do is get you to present a better argument than "I want this thing" which is what saying it's a QoL-feature is doing, especially when there are existing ways around your request1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »1) you don't know how much zos would charge for a class change item so it's hard to argue the point it could be 1 crown it could be 25k crowns zos sets the price, and we don't know that.
We don't. Shoot, they probably don't, either, as they said they have no plans to do it. However, guessing high is always a good starting point. ESO has an expensive cash shop, so go with that, then if it comes in below the guess... yay!
The cost in the Crown Store may be only one of the issues. With something like this, it is pretty much a given that they will impose certain limits and conditions along with the token, and we can only guess what that will be. They could have a looong cooldown. They could zero out the old class skills and make the player relearn them if they ever switch back. They may decide each character can have only one class change, ever. It might be a Customer Service thing, not something that players can just do whenever. We have no idea what they might come up with, but my guess is that the way the game is designed will force them to have limits, conditions, and asterisks.
0 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".
Just out of curiosity, as I'm otherwise not personally affected by this topic (I've toons of all classes and can do FOTM as much as I want), how exactly would it worsen the gaming experience for anyone if some other player is using a class change token?
I can understand the argument regarding development resources and also share this to some extent (although there has to be considered, how many players are asking for this QoL-feature. seem to be a freaking lot), but otherwise I simply can't imagine any problems implementing it.
Especially the argument regarding trivialization of character development seems flawed because the very same argument could be used to revert AwA (something you would like to see) or casualization of combat (something you probably refuse to see).
Regarding the argument that character change tokens "would harm the future longevity of the game" we have to state, that the very same argument was brought up against AwA, but nothing like that happened, when this broadly demanded feature arrived. On the contrary, the game is doing still very well.
Another example: When U35 arrived some people were jumping in the air with joy, as they assumed lots of endgame players would leave, so more development resources could be spent in service of their personal liking. Now we see this very same people arguing against a broadly demanded change.
So I politely ask for concrete reasons which are standing against a imo harmless QoL-feature, instead of hiding behind general statements.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily hold these opinions but here are the concerns that I feel a reasonable person could have.
1) the further monetization of the game, because let's be honest such a token will be monetized and likely the most expensive token of its kind, and possibly non gift able. Thus creating a pay wall.
2) the further trivilization of the illusion of choice that is offered in this game. That fewer and fewer of the choices you make have any impact on how you play.
3) that when it comes to changes that players request heavily on the forums and elsewhere, when it comes time to implement it, zos rare does so in such a way that players requested or wanted them to do it. Examples include: update 35, awa, proc sets in pvp, animation fixes for skills, players ignoring objectives in battlegrounds, tales of tribute, skyshards being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, skill lines being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, outfit tokens being character specific, WW and vampire cures being in the store, Crown crates, implantation of color changing for aoe's and thinking that acts the same as a colorblind mode, and one of the oldest requests and most discussed topic on the forums the auction house solution.
Thanks for your clarification, it was indeed helpful.
I understand your arguments made in 1) and 3) very well. Just wanted to add that both arguments, although completely viable, belong to far broader topics, not necessarily related to class change tokens.
It's point 2) which I still can't understand. Sure, altering your character can be quite immersion breaking (although a class change is a quite minor intervention compared to race changes). But isn't that for the affected player to decide? What harm is done to me if for example you're changing your class on one of your toons? Maybe you have even a immersive reason to do so and plan to act it out roleplaying. It's nothing I, as uninvolved third party, should think about. Where am I wrong here?Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.4 -
Nic727✭✭✭✭Ok it’s clear there is two clans here. One who prefer to play a main and play it only. The other one who play multiple characters for different reasons.
I don’t know what would be the solution to please everyone, but I know for sure that people who don’t want a class change token don’t need to buy one if they don’t want to.6 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".
Just out of curiosity, as I'm otherwise not personally affected by this topic (I've toons of all classes and can do FOTM as much as I want), how exactly would it worsen the gaming experience for anyone if some other player is using a class change token?
I can understand the argument regarding development resources and also share this to some extent (although there has to be considered, how many players are asking for this QoL-feature. seem to be a freaking lot), but otherwise I simply can't imagine any problems implementing it.
Especially the argument regarding trivialization of character development seems flawed because the very same argument could be used to revert AwA (something you would like to see) or casualization of combat (something you probably refuse to see).
Regarding the argument that character change tokens "would harm the future longevity of the game" we have to state, that the very same argument was brought up against AwA, but nothing like that happened, when this broadly demanded feature arrived. On the contrary, the game is doing still very well.
Another example: When U35 arrived some people were jumping in the air with joy, as they assumed lots of endgame players would leave, so more development resources could be spent in service of their personal liking. Now we see this very same people arguing against a broadly demanded change.
So I politely ask for concrete reasons which are standing against a imo harmless QoL-feature, instead of hiding behind general statements.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily hold these opinions but here are the concerns that I feel a reasonable person could have.
1) the further monetization of the game, because let's be honest such a token will be monetized and likely the most expensive token of its kind, and possibly non gift able. Thus creating a pay wall.
2) the further trivilization of the illusion of choice that is offered in this game. That fewer and fewer of the choices you make have any impact on how you play.
3) that when it comes to changes that players request heavily on the forums and elsewhere, when it comes time to implement it, zos rare does so in such a way that players requested or wanted them to do it. Examples include: update 35, awa, proc sets in pvp, animation fixes for skills, players ignoring objectives in battlegrounds, tales of tribute, skyshards being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, skill lines being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, outfit tokens being character specific, WW and vampire cures being in the store, Crown crates, implantation of color changing for aoe's and thinking that acts the same as a colorblind mode, and one of the oldest requests and most discussed topic on the forums the auction house solution.
Thanks for your clarification, it was indeed helpful.
I understand your arguments made in 1) and 3) very well. Just wanted to add that both arguments, although completely viable, belong to far broader topics, not necessarily related to class change tokens.
It's point 2) which I still can't understand. Sure, altering your character can be quite immersion breaking (although a class change is a quite minor intervention compared to race changes). But isn't that for the affected player to decide? What harm is done to me if for example you're changing your class on one of your toons? Maybe you have even a immersive reason to do so and plan to act it out roleplaying. It's nothing I, as uninvolved third party, should think about. Where am I wrong here?
Number 2 is mostly about the consequences of the choices you make. Over time zos has given us a lot of things to choose from but in doing so made them almost trivial. Whom you choose in the main quest for example is trivial now. Another is achievements. It doesn't matter what character you do achievements on now. Armory system made swapping roles and builds easier than swapimg characters. Cp system is set up so that once you get to a point it doesn't matter. And this just follows suite, it's not really about what players do, but what zos does.
1 -
Braffin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »[quote="DeathStalker;c-7805415"
I hope it's also understandable to you how the alt system is loved by so many people, and how so many players run alts without complaint. I accept that AwA annnoyed some altoholics (mainly because the way AwA was implemented meant the change took away the character progression tracking and not because of the change to account-wide achievements per se), while also delighting a lot of other players, but the premise of your argument is wrong in my view. These tokens aren't wanted by people who don't like the alt system, they're wanted by people who in any MMO they play always run one character and don't want to run alts under any circumstances whether for time constraints or any other reasons, period.
^This. Some players are used to other games where you can do all specializations on one character. Personally, I love the alt system, and a character's class is deeply intertwined with their identity, so even if tokens existed, I'd still be making alts for new classes and for specs within the new classes.
What alt system? There is no alt system.
Its make a new character, do EVERYTHING over again , which is an unreasonable amount of content to redo, or spend a ton of money on utility upgrades.
That is just called bad QoL and toxic Customer Support.
Everything on a new character you can upgrade using either the crown store or in game assets really quickly. The only a few skill lines are nor purchasable via crown store and all but two skyshards are there I think. You can shortcut almost all of them. Zos gives out exp scrolls for free like candy. Even with out that you can have any character set up for whatever content you want within a few weeks at most. Faster if you already have a new character.
Is this a qol issue? Maybe, but it definitely isn't bad customer support. It has almost nothing to do with customer support, it's a technical aspect of the game.
The last thing I would want is for ZOS to rush this because of a forum request and it be bugged and result in a complete wipe of my favorite character.
Rush this? This has been requested since warden was introduced. How much more time would they need than nearly seven years?
And it is horrible customer service and massive QoL issue..
Still, it isn't necessary to do everything all over again with a new character. Actually, it isn't even possible to do everything over again.
As for being attached to characters, it is partially that reason that I would not consider anything like a class or race change on them. They would be significantly different characters and the former attachment would be irrelevant. After thousands of hours playing them, that would be a tragedy.
However, my objection to the Class Change Token isn't because I would not use it, or because I just don't want others to be able to use it. This is supposed to be an RPG game and creating and leveling characters is core to what an RPG is. Class Change Tokens are an RPG line that ZOS has not crossed. I am sure there are RPG games out there that do it anyway, but I would just question whether they are actually an RPG or just an action adventure game. Maybe ESO is really a multiplayer action adventure game that is mislabeled as an "RPG"? Time will tell.
If this were skyrim, or a single player game, I could respect what you are saying. It is an mmo however, with thousands upon thousands of hours of content, and it is not immersion breaking for our characters to LEARN over time. As it stands right now, a new school of magic is discovered, and our characters seem to be incapable of learning. Even games like SWTOR understood, that if you make new content, at a point you NEED to offer the ability to bypass all the old content once you have done it once. Then at least it would be a middle ground of " choices have consequences " and " I dont want my character to be a hollow husk ala street fighter "
The thing is that "RPG" does not include anything about whether it is single player or multiplayer.
"NEED" vs "WANT"... In ESO, it is not required to repeat the entire game experience on each character in order to be able to function at a high level in the end game. The new end game character does not need to be everything the other characters on the account are. If you think about it, a player that has spent thousands of hours in the game, and has access to the wisdom of the internet, should be able to build a second character that can do all PVE end game content in just a handful of hours. Without spending any Crowns. PVP will require that, plus Crowns for mount speed.
Should they do this thing... I suspect that the "choices have consequences" that ZOS would lay down will be a source of "forum rage" for a very long time.
It wouldnt effect you or any other of the nay sayers one bit for there to be a class change token. It does however create a massive financial wall in order for us to make alts if we dont want to do everything again.
Its always mememe in here honestly. Sithis forbid we have a middle ground.
It would change the game for the worse in many players' view, and at the very least would take very significant resources away from other development work that many would consider more important - such as addressing the non-QoL issues that are much more critical than allowing players to trivialise the character levelling process, as they would genuinely see it, and all things considered it would harm the future longevity of the game. As such other players would therefore be affected and they are just as entitled to speak up against class change tokens as others are to speak up in favour of them. A discussion forum is about exchanging different points of view and not simply promoting one point of view and criticising anyone who puts a different one.
With regard to your final comment, it is equally possible to look at these threads that say "I don't want to play this way so I want it changed so I can play my way" and describe that as "always mememe in here honestly".
Just out of curiosity, as I'm otherwise not personally affected by this topic (I've toons of all classes and can do FOTM as much as I want), how exactly would it worsen the gaming experience for anyone if some other player is using a class change token?
I can understand the argument regarding development resources and also share this to some extent (although there has to be considered, how many players are asking for this QoL-feature. seem to be a freaking lot), but otherwise I simply can't imagine any problems implementing it.
Especially the argument regarding trivialization of character development seems flawed because the very same argument could be used to revert AwA (something you would like to see) or casualization of combat (something you probably refuse to see).
Regarding the argument that character change tokens "would harm the future longevity of the game" we have to state, that the very same argument was brought up against AwA, but nothing like that happened, when this broadly demanded feature arrived. On the contrary, the game is doing still very well.
Another example: When U35 arrived some people were jumping in the air with joy, as they assumed lots of endgame players would leave, so more development resources could be spent in service of their personal liking. Now we see this very same people arguing against a broadly demanded change.
So I politely ask for concrete reasons which are standing against a imo harmless QoL-feature, instead of hiding behind general statements.
Keep in mind that I don't necessarily hold these opinions but here are the concerns that I feel a reasonable person could have.
1) the further monetization of the game, because let's be honest such a token will be monetized and likely the most expensive token of its kind, and possibly non gift able. Thus creating a pay wall.
2) the further trivilization of the illusion of choice that is offered in this game. That fewer and fewer of the choices you make have any impact on how you play.
3) that when it comes to changes that players request heavily on the forums and elsewhere, when it comes time to implement it, zos rare does so in such a way that players requested or wanted them to do it. Examples include: update 35, awa, proc sets in pvp, animation fixes for skills, players ignoring objectives in battlegrounds, tales of tribute, skyshards being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, skill lines being added to the Crown store instead of account wide, outfit tokens being character specific, WW and vampire cures being in the store, Crown crates, implantation of color changing for aoe's and thinking that acts the same as a colorblind mode, and one of the oldest requests and most discussed topic on the forums the auction house solution.
Thanks for your clarification, it was indeed helpful.
I understand your arguments made in 1) and 3) very well. Just wanted to add that both arguments, although completely viable, belong to far broader topics, not necessarily related to class change tokens.
It's point 2) which I still can't understand. Sure, altering your character can be quite immersion breaking (although a class change is a quite minor intervention compared to race changes). But isn't that for the affected player to decide? What harm is done to me if for example you're changing your class on one of your toons? Maybe you have even a immersive reason to do so and plan to act it out roleplaying. It's nothing I, as uninvolved third party, should think about. Where am I wrong here?
Number 2 is mostly about the consequences of the choices you make. Over time zos has given us a lot of things to choose from but in doing so made them almost trivial. Whom you choose in the main quest for example is trivial now. Another is achievements. It doesn't matter what character you do achievements on now. Armory system made swapping roles and builds easier than swapimg characters. Cp system is set up so that once you get to a point it doesn't matter. And this just follows suite, it's not really about what players do, but what zos does.
Thanks again, I think I can understand this argument now: If you only reflect at the player's side and their imminent demands there wouldn't be a problem with implementing such a feature, but if you reflect at the game as a whole and the resulting consequences this change could cause quite some damage the the game's health due to further trivialization.
That's something I can understand very well, as it's quite similar to the ongoing discussion about further trivialization of combat, where also people are accused of "gatekeeping" because they insist, that some effort has to be shown for clearing higher difficulty modes.
I'll have to think about that, it's indeed a fair point you've made.Edited by Braffin on 4 June 2023 21:28Never get between a cat and it's candy!
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.0 -
mekops_ESO✭✭✭given all the other skyshard packs, skill lines, and other upgrades this singular token would allow you to easily circumvent, how much would you expect this to cost. it would likely be an outrage1
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RedTalon✭✭✭✭✭First time I bought a new char slot, but a class change token would be nice all the same1 -
Einar_Hrafnarsson✭✭✭✭I know a few folks that do not buy necrom simply because the main Feature, the new class, would be a massive grind first before being fun and a timelocked grind at that.
6 Months till your mount is fully functional. all the guilds, skyshards, skillpoints you have to grind again to make the class functional.
I myself will wait till necrom is in sale since the Story wont run away and i have 0 interest of grinding another class to functionality.
Now if there was a class change token.... i would have preordered 2 -
Silaf✭✭✭✭✭A class change is dangerously close to a pay to win mechanic. Some people will simply swich class to follow the meta every time...
I do understand that some want to revisit their choices after so much gameplay on their main so i suggest a very big account based cooldaun (1,5 years) for every class change.0 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭We dont need a class change token all we need is the ability to select any class skills from the class menu just like we do with additional skill lines lines Fighters, Mages, Weapon etc
PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
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Theosis✭✭✭✭I know I'm going to get pounded to the ground for this but..
Doesn't it take like 10 minutes to level it?
You don't have to do all the quests in the game the 20th time as achievements are account wide aren't they? I have no use for my crowns so I'll just use them for the skyshards and mount training. They need to drop the grown price for those though.This is were my signature would be if I was allowed one.0 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, if I could change my class I would have bought Necrom already as I could give it a go with my main char, as it is I'll wait until I'm good and ready.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.2 -
So far the only reason I see people get heated and staff doing this is to constantly increase sales of crown crap. People buy crowns and sell them in game for millions of gold that many of us do not grind nor care for. These same people make meta builds that make pvp content unenjoyable. They also are the whales for a handful who buy skyshards, skill lines, wolf bites outfit slots, armory slots and then get angry that people dont play their style of play.
There are many people who do not wish to play games like this. We may have alts but on our main for rp reasons, gameplay reasons or whatever reason we have we would like the class token as an option.
In my mind feeding the whales and not the common player just makes it not fair on any level. No matter the reasons or the concept of debate going IT SHOULD BE THIS WAY OR THAT, in my mind this is a no brainer.
It does not make it worse or will break the game since the game which is fun has been broken since the beta with many bugs, tricks and ways to play cheap. This will never cease cause people who want to play with the meta will always fork out the money since they are not attached to their charater.
My character I based around my playstyle. As a player who came from mmorpgs that featured playstyles very similar to Arcanist, I pictured my character Lililia who is my main that goes by Lily as a healer from a distant land that does healing this way. My build and the build I mostly play at the moment is a healer warden blossom build which personally to me still feels more like a plant based beast master.
I wanted a main focus healing class and arcanist fits the bill to a T.
I feel like making us earn the level 50 achievement for the class to change to it would make it on an equal level of the rest setting a system they have in there already and allowing people to not feel like it is unfair cause the players have to earn the right to change their class.
This in turn means those of us who do not wish to redo all the quests (which do affect your skill points), keep our original character name, our original design we can not export out of the game, Our armory/outfit designs (which i still say should be bloody account wide for 15 a pop), and our money lining their financial pockets because they have yet another thing to micro-transaction the crap out of.
Remember these are opinions and though everyone is entitled to their own opinion we have the right to ask for things we would like.
I hate pvp I wish pve content and skill points were not locked behind pvp so I really would love just to have my character I roleplay on, game on mostly and craft on to be able to be the class I would like. I do not wish to suffer through things that make me toxic, hate the game and the murder hobo community all over again. Give me raids and mechanics anyday I love that but force me in a room to earn things with people just enjoying stabbing each other over and over and I have a bad time.
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Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Einar_Hrafnarsson wrote: »I know a few folks that do not buy necrom simply because the main Feature, the new class, would be a massive grind first before being fun and a timelocked grind at that.
6 Months till your mount is fully functional. all the guilds, skyshards, skillpoints you have to grind again to make the class functional.
I myself will wait till necrom is in sale since the Story wont run away and i have 0 interest of grinding another class to functionality.
Now if there was a class change token.... i would have preordered
Same. I see no reason to buy something that forces me to buy a million things over again with irl money, or forces me to redo an absurd amount of content. I made three characters after having serious altaholicism, and I refuse to make another. If they offered a class change token, I would not only buy necrom, but buy the class change token. So they make 2 sales, instead of 0. And I am 100 percent certain I am not alone with this mindset.5