Class Change Tokens - Request Number 73,276

DrNukenstein

If they make class change tokens it's gonna open up accusations that they're pushing class change tokens with class balance changes. 0 win move.

Tandor

Nic727 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I as well would love to save my main from a class I do not enjoy.

I don't care if it's done through a 1 per character support ticket the same way recovering a deleted character is done.

I tried and tried but I just don't have enough free time to "catch up" another character/remake them in another class

You can get level 50 in an evening, you already have all the CPs and achievements, and any skill lines and skyshards etc you "need" can be bought with your subscription crowns (the revenue from which ZOS would lose if class change tokens came in thereby negating the revenue from the tokens).

I'm repeating myself from earlier, but we don't want a token only because we are levelling up or because of achievements. It's about the character itself. Completing quests again, discovering areas again, etc. Why can't we just change class like we can change jobs in real life. Also, the "It's too hard to do" is ***. Could be made the same way we change race.

Whenever I changed jobs in my working days I switched within the same profession (or class, if you will), and progressed in stages through the years from one job to another. You don't go from say office junior to managing director instantly, you gain experience and learn new skills over time.

So yes, I agree with you, changing class should be like changing jobs in real life, it should take time and experience to master the new class as it does a new job.

Jaraal

Tandor wrote: »

Nic727 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I as well would love to save my main from a class I do not enjoy.

I don't care if it's done through a 1 per character support ticket the same way recovering a deleted character is done.

I tried and tried but I just don't have enough free time to "catch up" another character/remake them in another class

You can get level 50 in an evening, you already have all the CPs and achievements, and any skill lines and skyshards etc you "need" can be bought with your subscription crowns (the revenue from which ZOS would lose if class change tokens came in thereby negating the revenue from the tokens).

I'm repeating myself from earlier, but we don't want a token only because we are levelling up or because of achievements. It's about the character itself. Completing quests again, discovering areas again, etc. Why can't we just change class like we can change jobs in real life. Also, the "It's too hard to do" is ***. Could be made the same way we change race.

Whenever I changed jobs in my working days I switched within the same profession (or class, if you will), and progressed in stages through the years from one job to another. You don't go from say office junior to managing director instantly, you gain experience and learn new skills over time.

So yes, I agree with you, changing class should be like changing jobs in real life, it should take time and experience to master the new class as it does a new job.

I think they were talking about changing from flipping burgers to gas station attendant, not swapping from quantum physicist to brain surgeon.

Elsonso

Jaraal wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Nic727 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I as well would love to save my main from a class I do not enjoy.

I don't care if it's done through a 1 per character support ticket the same way recovering a deleted character is done.

I tried and tried but I just don't have enough free time to "catch up" another character/remake them in another class

You can get level 50 in an evening, you already have all the CPs and achievements, and any skill lines and skyshards etc you "need" can be bought with your subscription crowns (the revenue from which ZOS would lose if class change tokens came in thereby negating the revenue from the tokens).

I'm repeating myself from earlier, but we don't want a token only because we are levelling up or because of achievements. It's about the character itself. Completing quests again, discovering areas again, etc. Why can't we just change class like we can change jobs in real life. Also, the "It's too hard to do" is ***. Could be made the same way we change race.

Whenever I changed jobs in my working days I switched within the same profession (or class, if you will), and progressed in stages through the years from one job to another. You don't go from say office junior to managing director instantly, you gain experience and learn new skills over time.

So yes, I agree with you, changing class should be like changing jobs in real life, it should take time and experience to master the new class as it does a new job.

I think they were talking about changing from flipping burgers to gas station attendant, not swapping from quantum physicist to brain surgeon.

I think class skills are more the latter, though. Not quite that extreme, but something that one definitely needs to study at before becoming good at it.

P.S. - Did you just call Arcanist a gas station attendant?

OtarTheMad

Hey, I mean if at first you don’t succeed keep trying until you drive the devs completely insane and they ban the word “token” from their twitch channel. Sounds like an awesome plan.

Kind of like if you want to take a keep in Cyro just keep riding back and fighting at the front door without flagging it. It’ll cave eventually!

Kidding aside I get it, not everyone wants to grind up a new character and a lot of people have mains they’ve done everything on and don’t want to start over. I, honestly, won’t be giving up my Magcro until it’s at least max alliance rank and even then they will still be the first character I do new content on and try to get achievements as well. So I get it but I also will level up an Arcanist for fun.

Jestir

I truly don't get how people can be against it

Don't want or need it? Don't buy one

Think it's gonna make all high level PvP and PvE groups run the same thing and expect everyone else to do it? Wow that's how things already are

You want everyone to have to spend a significant amount of time leveling 10 or time and money on 20 characters just like you may have? Most people literally don't have the time or willingness to abandon a character they cherish to do so and is the type of thinking/hate of change that leads these kind of games to their deaths faster

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

Elsonso

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

...

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

I think it is mainly a positive for ZOS, as they can tweak the class balance any time they want to goose a little more Crown spending. Even if they don't do this, they will be accused of doing this every time. Every. Time. That means that anyone who monitors or participates in ESO related social media will encounter this negative, whether they use the token or not.

I am against it. I think it is bad for the game, even if it would be useful for some players.

That said, I do expect that ZOS will do it. Eventually.

Jestir

Elsonso wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

...

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

I think it is mainly a positive for ZOS, as they can tweak the class balance any time they want to goose a little more Crown spending. Even if they don't do this, they will be accused of doing this every time. Every. Time. That means that anyone who monitors or participates in ESO related social media will encounter this negative, whether they use the token or not.

I am against it. I think it is bad for the game, even if it would be useful for some players.

That said, I do expect that ZOS will do it. Eventually.

Again, this already happens.

Any buff of any kind to the DLC classes or nerfs to base game classes results in accusations of P2W.

If you have read any feedback on any platform whatsoever when in comes to the Arcanist you will no doubt see groups of people pushing the class and game as P2W.

The moment DK finally gets some kind of nerf/balancing it will lead to accusations of wanting people to spend money to get another character/class upto par.

Jestir

I will also make sure to put into this topic that a "class change token" is not the way I would want this to happen, it is just the most likely

The way I would like this kind of issue to be worked out is by using a system already in game, the armory system.

It should work how it does now but with tabs for other classes, giving everyone a second class on each character for free and then offering a per character purchase for more slots and maybe even including one for free with ESO plus to further incentivize it

Elsonso

Bleakz wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

...

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

I think it is mainly a positive for ZOS, as they can tweak the class balance any time they want to goose a little more Crown spending. Even if they don't do this, they will be accused of doing this every time. Every. Time. That means that anyone who monitors or participates in ESO related social media will encounter this negative, whether they use the token or not.

I am against it. I think it is bad for the game, even if it would be useful for some players.

That said, I do expect that ZOS will do it. Eventually.

Again, this already happens.

Any buff of any kind to the DLC classes or nerfs to base game classes results in accusations of P2W.

If you have read any feedback on any platform whatsoever when in comes to the Arcanist you will no doubt see groups of people pushing the class and game as P2W.

The moment DK finally gets some kind of nerf/balancing it will lead to accusations of wanting people to spend money to get another character/class upto par.

Because something happens already does not justify making it worse, right?

Jestir

Elsonso wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

...

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

I think it is mainly a positive for ZOS, as they can tweak the class balance any time they want to goose a little more Crown spending. Even if they don't do this, they will be accused of doing this every time. Every. Time. That means that anyone who monitors or participates in ESO related social media will encounter this negative, whether they use the token or not.

I am against it. I think it is bad for the game, even if it would be useful for some players.

That said, I do expect that ZOS will do it. Eventually.

Again, this already happens.

Any buff of any kind to the DLC classes or nerfs to base game classes results in accusations of P2W.

If you have read any feedback on any platform whatsoever when in comes to the Arcanist you will no doubt see groups of people pushing the class and game as P2W.

The moment DK finally gets some kind of nerf/balancing it will lead to accusations of wanting people to spend money to get another character/class upto par.

Because something happens already does not justify making it worse, right?

I think it leads to far more happier players, who will also spend money on such a token, compared to those who would complain about it

Just like AwA achievements or something as small as capping light attack damage lead to a very vocal minority of players being very upset but making a better general game for moost players

Deathgiggle

No, just no

Jestir

Deathgiggle wrote: »

No, just no

Any reasoning you would like to share with the class?

Grizzbeorn

Bleakz wrote: »

Deathgiggle wrote: »

No, just no

Any reasoning you would like to share with the class?

That the devs have said multiple times that it ain't gonna happen.
Once in this very thread, even. (page 4, post #94)

Elsonso

Bleakz wrote: »

I think it leads to far more happier players, who will also spend money on such a token, compared to those who would complain about it

Ultimately, I think the revenue from those people is why ZOS will do it.

Jestir

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

Deathgiggle wrote: »

No, just no

Any reasoning you would like to share with the class?

That the devs have said multiple times that it ain't gonna happen.

They have said that about things in the past that have been changed

They have said it about this and it won't stop any of us from asking until it or something comparable is available.

Tandor

Elsonso wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I think it leads to far more happier players, who will also spend money on such a token, compared to those who would complain about it

Ultimately, I think the revenue from those people is why ZOS will do it.

It's a bit more complex than that. It's the revenue gained from a token less the revenue lost from e.g, character slots and crown store skill/wayshrine purchases etc, factored against the base cost of developing, testing and implementing such a core change to the game plus the subsequent cost of Customer Support handling tickets relating to it, all in the context of the present database limitations and performance issues. Then, as Gina indicated on Page 4, there's the risk factor involved in trying to ensure it went safely. Testing alone would be a massive exercise to cover all possible applications quite apart from the design and implementation time/costs involved. Any hitch could really mess up the game, and I don't think the level of demand warrants that.

Deathgiggle

Bleakz wrote: »

Deathgiggle wrote: »

No, just no

Any reasoning you would like to share with the class?

No

Vulkunne

There already exists change tokens for everything else: Race, Name, Appearance, Alliance etc...

The problem is why allow us to change everything except class? Class change is in scope with other changes that make up a character and its the only thing that cannot currently be changed.

There is no reason we should not be allowed to change class along with everything else. Many of the reasons for 'why' this should not be made possible have also been made for the other elements that can now be changed, especially for things like Race and Alliance... and we can change those at will now without any noticeable issues.

Class change is a non-issue and is something that needs to be made available to us along with everything else and hopefully this can be done soon.

Lumsdenml

Still 100% against class change tokens

Vulkunne

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

Don't want or need it? Don't buy one

Think it's gonna make all high level PvP and PvE groups run the same thing and expect everyone else to do it? Wow that's how things already are

You want everyone to have to spend a significant amount of time leveling 10 or time and money on 20 characters just like you may have? Most people literally don't have the time or willingness to abandon a character they cherish to do so and is the type of thinking/hate of change that leads these kind of games to their deaths faster

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

Gold Star.

And that is the problem here there does seem to be like this 'rift' not just between the player base but also between players and devs. You see its about vision. And it isn't like "oh well the devs are doing something for me" its the fact it seems like there is no vision for it.

Kind of like with Star Wars, a little bit. You have certain directors and executives who basically have put a wall up to anyone who I guess you could say produces a challenge to something that they oppose personally. Now, there is a difference between something being like really hard to do from a technical standpoint and something that a better Team with a better process could just do.

I mean they could just do it and move on. However more and more, and not just with ZOS, but with many things it seems people take this personal stance against something for their own reasons vs having an open mind to change and just getting the job done.

A good use case for this is people so resistant and biased against adding new PvP features it seems we can scarcely offer any new PvP ideas without getting shouted down by an angry mob. To me, it just more and more kind of feels like the game is losing potential and dying a slow death because other people will not get out of the way of progress. They would rather see the game die over time than invest in *those areas where a great many people* are finding change necessary.

wolfie1.0.

Vulkunne wrote: »

There already exists change tokens for everything else: Race, Name, Appearance, Alliance etc...

The problem is why allow us to change everything except class? Class change is in scope with other changes that make up a character and its the only thing that cannot currently be changed.

There is no reason we should not be allowed to change class along with everything else. Many of the reasons for 'why' this should not be made possible have also been made for the other elements that can now be changed, especially for things like Race and Alliance... and we can change those at will now without any noticeable issues.

Class change is a non-issue and is something that needs to be made available to us along with everything else and hopefully this can be done soon.

I would counter that it is an issue. I mean think of all of the skill lines, skyshards, and horse mount crown sale that zos would lose if they just allowed you to swap your best character around?

Credible_Joe

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

There already exists change tokens for everything else: Race, Name, Appearance, Alliance etc...

The problem is why allow us to change everything except class? Class change is in scope with other changes that make up a character and its the only thing that cannot currently be changed.

There is no reason we should not be allowed to change class along with everything else. Many of the reasons for 'why' this should not be made possible have also been made for the other elements that can now be changed, especially for things like Race and Alliance... and we can change those at will now without any noticeable issues.

Class change is a non-issue and is something that needs to be made available to us along with everything else and hopefully this can be done soon.

I would counter that it is an issue. I mean think of all of the skill lines, skyshards, and horse mount crown sale that zos would lose if they just allowed you to swap your best character around?

Are we just assuming we'd be able to pop a class change like flipping a switch? As much as we want?

If a token has a similar cost to other tokens, that'd be 2k - 2.5k crowns per change. That's prohibitive on its own. But assuming that the class skills would transfer over one-to-one every time is a huge stretch. If we want to change our class, we should be prepared to re-level the class skill lines after switching at the very least.

They could go even further, de-leveling your character, effectively making a class change comparable to starting a new character. At the same time, we'd preserve our quest, horse, skyshard, crafting, AvA, and guild progress.

That's a compromise I'd be fine with, personally. But bottom line, we shouldn't assume that a token would be a frivolous, easy alternative to fast-tracking a new character.

Hell, that could be factored out just by limiting token use to time frames per account. It's not hard to solve these problems.

Tandor

Vulkunne wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

Don't want or need it? Don't buy one

Think it's gonna make all high level PvP and PvE groups run the same thing and expect everyone else to do it? Wow that's how things already are

You want everyone to have to spend a significant amount of time leveling 10 or time and money on 20 characters just like you may have? Most people literally don't have the time or willingness to abandon a character they cherish to do so and is the type of thinking/hate of change that leads these kind of games to their deaths faster

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

Gold Star.

And that is the problem here there does seem to be like this 'rift' not just between the player base but also between players and devs. You see its about vision. And it isn't like "oh well the devs are doing something for me" its the fact it seems like there is no vision for it.

Kind of like with Star Wars, a little bit. You have certain directors and executives who basically have put a wall up to anyone who I guess you could say produces a challenge to something that they oppose personally. Now, there is a difference between something being like really hard to do from a technical standpoint and something that a better Team with a better process could just do.

I mean they could just do it and move on. However more and more, and not just with ZOS, but with many things it seems people take this personal stance against something for their own reasons vs having an open mind to change and just getting the job done.

A good use case for this is people so resistant and biased against adding new PvP features it seems we can scarcely offer any new PvP ideas without getting shouted down by an angry mob. To me, it just more and more kind of feels like the game is losing potential and dying a slow death because other people will not get out of the way of progress. They would rather see the game die over time than invest in *those areas where a great many people* are finding change necessary.

Perhaps it's more a case of the majority of players seeing the success the game they enjoy in its present form continues to be, and not wanting to jeopardise that by the game being dumbed down in their eyes in order to meet what they consider to be undesirable changes to appease a minority of players.

Gwahiir

I think if anything they will more likely introduce a character boost token like so many other mmos do these days

Jestir

Tandor wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

Don't want or need it? Don't buy one

Think it's gonna make all high level PvP and PvE groups run the same thing and expect everyone else to do it? Wow that's how things already are

You want everyone to have to spend a significant amount of time leveling 10 or time and money on 20 characters just like you may have? Most people literally don't have the time or willingness to abandon a character they cherish to do so and is the type of thinking/hate of change that leads these kind of games to their deaths faster

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

Gold Star.

And that is the problem here there does seem to be like this 'rift' not just between the player base but also between players and devs. You see its about vision. And it isn't like "oh well the devs are doing something for me" its the fact it seems like there is no vision for it.

Kind of like with Star Wars, a little bit. You have certain directors and executives who basically have put a wall up to anyone who I guess you could say produces a challenge to something that they oppose personally. Now, there is a difference between something being like really hard to do from a technical standpoint and something that a better Team with a better process could just do.

I mean they could just do it and move on. However more and more, and not just with ZOS, but with many things it seems people take this personal stance against something for their own reasons vs having an open mind to change and just getting the job done.

A good use case for this is people so resistant and biased against adding new PvP features it seems we can scarcely offer any new PvP ideas without getting shouted down by an angry mob. To me, it just more and more kind of feels like the game is losing potential and dying a slow death because other people will not get out of the way of progress. They would rather see the game die over time than invest in *those areas where a great many people* are finding change necessary.

Perhaps it's more a case of the majority of players seeing the success the game they enjoy in its present form continues to be, and not wanting to jeopardise that by the game being dumbed down in their eyes in order to meet what they consider to be undesirable changes to appease a minority of players.

The truly honest answer here is that the casual player base that makes up most of the games players wouldn't care in any way and would in no way ever be effected by it, outside of maybe being happy to use one if they gave one out for free to all players when or if it is made like other tokens

While I say I believe there would be far more happy about such a thing than against it both sides are in no way the majority

Any of us who stay here past trying to make single post that gets banished to a dark corner of the forums for being "in the wrong section" and never get responded to are not a part of the "more casual majority" that are the life blood of this game

Hurbster

Being able to change the class on my main would make me more likely to carry on playing the game into the future.

Vulkunne

Tandor wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Bleakz wrote: »

I truly don't get how people can be against it

Don't want or need it? Don't buy one

Think it's gonna make all high level PvP and PvE groups run the same thing and expect everyone else to do it? Wow that's how things already are

You want everyone to have to spend a significant amount of time leveling 10 or time and money on 20 characters just like you may have? Most people literally don't have the time or willingness to abandon a character they cherish to do so and is the type of thinking/hate of change that leads these kind of games to their deaths faster

It's nothing but a positive for nearly everyone

Gold Star.

And that is the problem here there does seem to be like this 'rift' not just between the player base but also between players and devs. You see its about vision. And it isn't like "oh well the devs are doing something for me" its the fact it seems like there is no vision for it.

Kind of like with Star Wars, a little bit. You have certain directors and executives who basically have put a wall up to anyone who I guess you could say produces a challenge to something that they oppose personally. Now, there is a difference between something being like really hard to do from a technical standpoint and something that a better Team with a better process could just do.

I mean they could just do it and move on. However more and more, and not just with ZOS, but with many things it seems people take this personal stance against something for their own reasons vs having an open mind to change and just getting the job done.

A good use case for this is people so resistant and biased against adding new PvP features it seems we can scarcely offer any new PvP ideas without getting shouted down by an angry mob. To me, it just more and more kind of feels like the game is losing potential and dying a slow death because other people will not get out of the way of progress. They would rather see the game die over time than invest in *those areas where a great many people* are finding change necessary.

Perhaps it's more a case of the majority of players seeing the success the game they enjoy in its present form continues to be, and not wanting to jeopardise that by the game being dumbed down in their eyes in order to meet what they consider to be undesirable changes to appease a minority of players.

So yeah that whole thing doesn't work because you cannot always please everyone. And you know, I've said that before in my posts that while there are many good ideas out there, its just not reasonable or feasible to have this expectation of getting everything you want. I mean, having that outlook will not produce a healthy relationship with anyone in the business or the stakeholders themselves.

However I know, based on experiences and some things I've seen that sometimes we get stuck on things. Like I've had managers who look at something and just say 'get lost'. But then, uh, Buzz Grifindor asks them about the same thing and they're like 'we'll have it done by Tuesady' you know I've known people get feelings bent up, decide they don't like someone or what that person's 'ism' might be and then they resist. You know, there's all kinds of examples of this.

And then you have usually someone knowledgeable and a Team more focused on delivery than satisfying a grudge or letting feelings make decisions. Based on some of the uh... media content I've seen as well as some, certainly not all, but some posts on here its like we really need someone who can sort out the feelings from the vision. It just seems like one is pulling the other down. Uh for example, "boo hoo you pvp people" "boo hoo for you". You know, I'm just saying. Its hard to believe some of the excuses that have floated down the pipe when most of us with an eye for detail can see instances when they're neither inclusive nor genuine.

Uvi_AUT

I am not against having class change tokens. Best for Gold instead of Crowns. That would take a lot of money out of ciculation and actively end inflation. But ZOS would never do that.

I wouldnt use one though. What reason would I have to even play the character then if he already has done everything?

Kendaric

I'd love to able to change the class on some of my characters, but it should come with a lot of limitations/drawbacks.

Unrestricted class change wouldn't be healthy for the game though.