Class Change Tokens - Request Number 73,276

Tandor · October 2023

It's a primarily a financial consideration for ZOS as it would be for any business. How many players want a class change token, and what proportion of them will actually leave if they don't get it? In order to retain those players how much revenue will ZOS lose from the current Crown Store sale of skill lines, character slots and skyshards etc, and what will be the cost of designing, coding, and testing the tokens as well as the cost of support for any problems arising from them? Might some players leave because they are impacted adversely by the tokens, whether directly or through their character data being corrupted as a result of the system changes?

It's not as simple as "get an intern to knock them up by next week and the players will pay a decent price for them so everyone's a winner". It's fraught with difficulty, both technical and financial.

MissAethe · December 2023

I opened a new thread asking what the official reason for not offering one was and got redirected here (I wasn't aware of this thread).

I've played Templar as my main since I first started in ESO (when Elsweyr was released). I went templar because I recreated a Skyrim character and none of the classes at the time felt like they made sense for him.

Now, years later, I've cleared almost all of the content in the game minus a couple of trials and misc achievements with said character. This is my crafter, this is my consistent and constant go-to, but as I've made other side characters I really really hate Templar.

I'm not saying Templar is bad persay, but its not interesting to me, its stale and boring so much so I don't even use the class skills anymore. I don't want to start over completely and repeat years of work that I've put into this game just to have a different class, I just want to change one character's class one time. That's it.

OtarTheMad · December 2023

MissAethe wrote: »

I opened a new thread asking what the official reason for not offering one was and got redirected here (I wasn't aware of this thread).

I've played Templar as my main since I first started in ESO (when Elsweyr was released). I went templar because I recreated a Skyrim character and none of the classes at the time felt like they made sense for him.

Now, years later, I've cleared almost all of the content in the game minus a couple of trials and misc achievements with said character. This is my crafter, this is my consistent and constant go-to, but as I've made other side characters I really really hate Templar.

I'm not saying Templar is bad persay, but its not interesting to me, its stale and boring so much so I don't even use the class skills anymore. I don't want to start over completely and repeat years of work that I've put into this game just to have a different class, I just want to change one character's class one time. That's it.

Gina's response is on page 4.

I hear you though, I've gone through all the content a few times but it's just a lot now and I am kind of stuck with Necro as my main but oh well I guess.

Einar_Hrafnarsson · December 2023

MissAethe wrote: »

I opened a new thread asking what the official reason for not offering one was and got redirected here (I wasn't aware of this thread).

I've played Templar as my main since I first started in ESO (when Elsweyr was released). I went templar because I recreated a Skyrim character and none of the classes at the time felt like they made sense for him.

Now, years later, I've cleared almost all of the content in the game minus a couple of trials and misc achievements with said character. This is my crafter, this is my consistent and constant go-to, but as I've made other side characters I really really hate Templar.

I'm not saying Templar is bad persay, but its not interesting to me, its stale and boring so much so I don't even use the class skills anymore. I don't want to start over completely and repeat years of work that I've put into this game just to have a different class, I just want to change one character's class one time. That's it.

Aside from the fact that Templars are on the lower end on everything currently, i completely agree with you.
I mained Templar, unlocked everything on it, made grand master crafter on it and so on. Then they thought its a good idea to ruin his main spammable. I barely touch that character now except for crafting or maybe healing a Vet raid/dungeon.

I would switch the class immedietly if i could.

Hurbster · December 2023

Yeah, so would I. It's almost the same story too. Templar, og character maxed everything, etc, now I just don't find him fun to play. I tried an alt, playstyle was fun (I dislike the jabs animation so much) compared to the Templar, but it wasn't HIM, y'know?

Eventually, I lost all enthusiasm for the game and I have not played for a few months now. The last few expansions having terrible writing don't help.

Might get back into LOTRO over Xmas, might not. Its got the good storytelling I need from an MMO. Need to replay BG3 again, now I can potentially recruit a certain character without doing a BAD THING. And of course Rogue Trader is out soon, need to have a bash at that, and Alan Wake 2.

Look I'd still be playing and paying for ESO if I had been able to choose a new class. I can overlook some terribad storytelling if the gameplay is enjoyable to me.

Nic727 · January 18

Looks like still not coming after 10 years. Who asked for scribing btw?

jcaceresw · January 18

This global reveal could have been the time to tell us we were gonna have class change tokens but they still insist on 2 DLC dungeons and saying Tales of Tribute as a successful game play feature. Still unsure about the Scribing thing. Need more info about that. They just showed us a excel like presentation to showcase just one ability. No news about if that Scribing mechanic can be used on Cyrodiil.

jcaceresw · January 18

Anyway, I am thinking about doing another break of some years like I did before (and subsequent no money from me).

Tandor · January 19

Ciotola wrote: »

I have read much of the tread and I ask the [snip] players against the token: what bothers you if MY gaming experience has gone from being a dragonknight gaming experience to a templar gaming experience? no one forces you to use the token and you can simply figure out the meta class of the moment in 2 days, [snip] rather than opening up to novelty they prefer conservatism. ......this progress with fluid classes, dark elves equal to light elves and the legalization of skooma must really be scary....

[edited for baiting]

If you read through the thread you'll find all the arguments for and against tokens.

Ciotola · January 19

Tandor wrote: »

Ciotola wrote: »

I have read much of the tread and I ask the [snip] players against the token: what bothers you if MY gaming experience has gone from being a dragonknight gaming experience to a templar gaming experience? no one forces you to use the token and you can simply figure out the meta class of the moment in 2 days, [snip] rather than opening up to novelty they prefer conservatism. ......this progress with fluid classes, dark elves equal to light elves and the legalization of skooma must really be scary....

[edited for baiting]

If you read through the thread you'll find all the arguments for and against tokens.

you misunderstood: if I write that no one is able to explain why MY choice of class change is negative for THEM it is because contesting the class change is foolish, I'll give you an example:

player A: I was a dk and now I'm a necro
player B: I find the idea of playing with this necro unacceptable, go back to your class!!!!!111!!!!!!
player A: ok, then I'll log out and redo one of my other necro PCs.
Player B: I can accept that

DorianDragonRaze · January 19

At least ZOS could allow changing class for characters below level 50. Let's say I like my character level 25 racial skills, weapon skills, look and feel but found out I'd like this guy to be actually stam sorc, or stam arcanist, or stam DK, not stamblade, I changed my mind. What's the problem in letting me try different play style with the same character?

Tandor · January 19

Ciotola wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Ciotola wrote: »

I have read much of the tread and I ask the [snip] players against the token: what bothers you if MY gaming experience has gone from being a dragonknight gaming experience to a templar gaming experience? no one forces you to use the token and you can simply figure out the meta class of the moment in 2 days, [snip] rather than opening up to novelty they prefer conservatism. ......this progress with fluid classes, dark elves equal to light elves and the legalization of skooma must really be scary....

[edited for baiting]

If you read through the thread you'll find all the arguments for and against tokens.

you misunderstood: if I write that no one is able to explain why MY choice of class change is negative for THEM it is because contesting the class change is foolish, I'll give you an example:

player A: I was a dk and now I'm a necro
player B: I find the idea of playing with this necro unacceptable, go back to your class!!!!!111!!!!!!
player A: ok, then I'll log out and redo one of my other necro PCs.
Player B: I can accept that

The grounds for opposing class change tokens are far broader than how it impacts on just you or them.

OtarTheMad · January 19

ZOS already responded to why they can’t do class change tokens, it causes too many issues. I believe it’s page 4 of this thread.

While I’d love one I would rather them wait until they don’t break the game.

Drinks_from_Ponds · January 19

What about char boosts like wow does? Have a limit where you can only buy/use one every 4 months or something to keep everyone from boosting all the time.

Ciotola · January 19

Tandor wrote: »

Ciotola wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Ciotola wrote: »

I have read much of the tread and I ask the [snip] players against the token: what bothers you if MY gaming experience has gone from being a dragonknight gaming experience to a templar gaming experience? no one forces you to use the token and you can simply figure out the meta class of the moment in 2 days, [snip] rather than opening up to novelty they prefer conservatism. ......this progress with fluid classes, dark elves equal to light elves and the legalization of skooma must really be scary....

[edited for baiting]

If you read through the thread you'll find all the arguments for and against tokens.

you misunderstood: if I write that no one is able to explain why MY choice of class change is negative for THEM it is because contesting the class change is foolish, I'll give you an example:

player A: I was a dk and now I'm a necro
player B: I find the idea of playing with this necro unacceptable, go back to your class!!!!!111!!!!!!
player A: ok, then I'll log out and redo one of my other necro PCs.
Player B: I can accept that

The grounds for opposing class change tokens are far broader than how it impacts on just you or them.

it doesn't concern you, what concerns you is actually just this: you are playing with a player who doesn't care about a class, whether that class was chosen during creation or changed with a potential token.

On the implementation problems side, it still shows that Zenimax (which is not a small indie studio) doesn't know how to do mmos well.

every time they were asked for explanations they just said that it causes problems. ok what problems? How are they making this implementation complicated? What do these problems, carried out only on 1 character, cause? on multiple characters? do they cause problems on the entire server side or on the experience side of those who benefit from a potential class change?

I'm pretty sure that if they shared even extremely sector-specific information we would find several nerds capable not only of translating sector-specific information for those less familiar with the sector, but would also be able to give useful feedback.

I repeat: Zenimax is not an indie studio where 1 one-armed cartoonist, his grandmother and a chiropath work there.

cmetzger93 · January 19

With all the talk about roleplay in the chapter reveal hoping they will start taking this topic more seriously.

Dragonnord · January 19

Request Number 73,276 for a "No, Thanks".

Leave things as they are now.

cmetzger93 · January 20

Dragonnord wrote: »

Request Number 73,276 for a "No, Thanks".

Leave things as they are now.

How would them implementing a class change negatively impact you?

Fjordkeeper · January 20

Man this thread is kinda depressing. I've created a templar back when ESO came out and casually leveled to max. As I didn't enjoy the fantasy and gameplay, I just picked weapon skills instead of making a new character, so I could continue the game without having to reroll. Additionally I really wanted to play a werewolf or vampire, so I thought that I wont really need the templar skills anyway. Since the overworld and story content of the game is so ridiculously easy, I never really saw a problem with my build. After finishing the story and most of the zones, I finally reached craglorn, which is where I was confronted with the hard reality of my build being not only suboptimal, but entirely useless, unless some group was kind enough to carry me. So I quit the game.

Years later, after quitting wow for good, I came back to the game and made a new character. However, I really didn't enjoy starting anew and doing everything over again, so I switched back to my templar. Once again again, it was really easy for me to finish the new DLCs that came out since I've quit, even with a terrible build. However, after this period I fell in love with the game, as it allowed me to enjoy an MMORPG in a world I love, without having to constantly run the vertical progression treadmill like I had to do in wow. So I subbed to ESO+ and started logging in daily, collecting stuff, leveling crafting and playing through new DLCs. After maxing crafting and finishing all the DLC I wanted at the time, I finally wanted to read up on some guides to lift me out of this messy build and join the other players that can solo whole freaking dungeons without any problems.

I was looking for a build where I could play vampire and play the game mostly solo. However, all I found were builds of Nightblade + Vampire or maybe Necro + Vampire. Not even a pure vampire build. The only Vampire builds I found at the time, that kinda worked with templar, were pure DPS focused, which was useless to me, as I'm not interested in pure group play.
So in the end I swallowed the bitter pill and dropped my vampire skills (kept the vampirism because I really want my character to be a vampire) and took up a solo templar build with 2 handed weapon skills. The build did it's job perfectly. I suddenly became utterly overpowered and managed to solo not only every world boss I challenged, but even managed to do a whole dungeon by myself and I finally was able to deal with craglorn.

While the gameplay isn't really that fun, being able to actually finish stuff is. However my character fantasy is basically completely ruined. A Templar vampire doesn't really look all that great and the templar skills, especially the main ability I use "Biting Jabs" looks ridiculously dumb. Now after over a year of playing with that build, I'm sick and tired of not being able to play a vampire. So searched for a class change token online, only to be disappointed again.

I've since found a build that claims to work with vampire + templar, but I'd have to completely redo my character and get a new set. So I'm hesitant to commit to it. Additionally that wouldn't really fix the problem of templar skills not fitting into my vampire theme.

Now I really don't know what to do. I really like the game but I'd prefer to play a character that I actually enjoy and not this lame templar thing. Releveling another character and redoing mount, crafting and especially all the zone collection stuff is not an option for me. This has been an endeavour of multiple years for me and I really don't want to do it all again.
But this whole situation makes me lose interest in the game.

Thanks for reading, I just wanted to write down my frustration somewhere.

Sidonius · January 20

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

I've already spent my time! My main has been a cro since cro came out. I've done the entirety of ESO in chronological order.

Unless they technically or physically can't do class change tokens, I think they'll eventually turn up. Probably before ES6 is released

LunaFlora · January 20

Sidonius wrote: »

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

I've already spent my time! My main has been a cro since cro came out. I've done the entirety of ESO in chronological order.

Unless they technically or physically can't do class change tokens, I think they'll eventually turn up. Probably before ES6 is released

i hope so.
this is what Gina said about it last February though, nearly a year ago.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely.

valenwood_vegan · January 20

The only statement that actually matters can be found on page 4 of this thread:

"Hi everyone, just wanted to let you all know that we do not have any plans on implementing class changes tokens at this time. There are a number of technical challenges with implementing them, and it would take a significant amount of time to solve these challenges efficiently and safely."

For those wanting a class change, just try to remember that this is why it doesn't exist. Not because some players posted that they aren't interested in one or wouldn't want one.

Personally I don't care, would never use a class change, and yes, I wouldn't want ZoS to waste "a significant amount of time" on this. But I'm not the one that has to be convinced - they are.

FelisCatus · January 20

YES we desperately need a class change token it would be one of the biggest QoL changes this game needs.

ZOS_Icy · January 20

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

Swordancer · January 21

New class and still no class change token? See you in 2025. Have a nice year again.

Tandor · January 21

Swordancer wrote: »

New class and still no class change token? See you in 2025. Have a nice year again.

There's no new class, just a variation on existing weapons/classes through the addition of scribing and at this stage people seem to refer to them more in relation to weapons than classes.

HowlKimchi · January 22

Meanwhile, in FF14 you can change your class by swapping an item.

Tandor · January 22

HaruKamui wrote: »

Meanwhile, in FF14 you can change your class by swapping an item.

That's nothing to do with a permanent change of class, it's to do with the fact that FF14 was designed at the outset for you to have multiple classes.

tohopka_eso · January 22

As I've said before and I play both. The classes are locked to those weapons. One reason I love ESO, I'm not locked to a weapon because of my class. You want to play a white mage ... Oh you can only wear this type of armour and use a staff or wand.
Oh, so want to play a warden well what armour set you want to use, now do want to tank, use a bow, a staff.....

SmellyUnlimited · January 22

The cost of class change tokens might very well be $100, but I’d likely still do it. The reason it’d be so high is that it has to make financial sense for them to implement it. Right now you can make a new class, and skill lines and skyshards to power up a new class, but they’d lose out on that revenue if a class change token is $30 and lets you keep all the skyshards and world skill lines you’ve leveled up. I see it working one of two ways. The first way, you get to change a character but all the skyshards and world skills you’ve collected get reset to zero, thus you have to repurchase them through the Crown Store (or spend a thousand hours releveling them). Or alternatively, they could make up for the cost where you keep your skyshards/levels, but in which case you pay somewhere around $100-125 dollars.