Drop monster helmet on normal.

RevJJ

I pug vet DLC dungeons on my healer regularly and I’ve gotten hard mode, no death or speed run achievements on several of them with pugs. And I usually play outside prime time. So looks like you have either had very bad luck or you gave up after two or three times.

HybridFreak

With Cyrodiil being nearly unplayable for a lot of people (myself included) I wouldn't mind seeing them drop on normal at a low drop rate. As it stands if you can't or don't want to do vet, your only option is the golden vendor. And if you can't PvP for AP then hoping, waiting, and buying with gold is pretty much your only option.

AuraStorm43

danielpang32 wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

danielpang32 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

danielpang32 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Your comment is not helpful and do no benefit to the game.

Wrong. The comment was 100% correct.
If veteran content is too stressfull and difficult and generally repels you, there is no need to improve your gear accordingly because there is no non-veteran content that requires you to wear a monster set. The current state does benefit the game because it provides a challenge to the players and makes them improve their SKILL level (which is far more important than their gear) in the long run.
But knowing ZOS and the attitude of ESO community and looking back at sticker books and transmute stations and imperfected arena weapons, I expect them to dull down the game improve the QoL even more by introducing an imperfected monster helm mechanic in the future. So stay tuned.

You are incorrect. You are not even answering the question. All you said is to avoid doing vet dungeons or improving player skill. How are you going to improve other player skill in PUG?

If you so believe that the gameplay will be "dull down", then tell me how to finish the DLC vet dungeon in PUG. I am playing healer myself, and I dont see what I can do to improve my PUG team DPS so drastically that they can handle the mechanic. Vet dungeon require player to be so dedicate to become a mono-focus role. And there is so many players are playing hybrid build. And they want the helmet to play with and they couldnt do it.

Those popular youtube/ top% are not even trying to follow the mechanic. They are trying to overpower the dungeon by high damage, in order to avoiding the mechanic.

No, I did not say "avoid them". I said grow a pair, queue up, play them, get used to them, improve your skill level and get the reward instead of play the "oh this is too stressful for me give me the reward anyways though kthx"-card. I don't know where this "you can not play vet DLC dungeons in PUG's" narrative comes from. It is pure nonsense. Of course you can PUG vet DLC dungeons. I do it all the time. Sometimes you're unlucky and get a group that doesn't seem to be able to make it. In that case, you can either try or leave and re-queue.

And why are we talking about vet DLC all of a sudden? We are talking about monster helmets, which are available in all veteran dungeons. Is vCoA1 unPUGable too? When did that happen?

All monster helmet is coming from vet dungeon. And vet dungeons are all available under the PUG system. You dont need to bring up the overall accessible basegame content to make your argument agreeable. Because the vet DLC dungeon number are increasing every single year. And they are the biggest problem in PUG system.

If the game allow a somebody run into the PUG vet dungeon, it means the game is seeing this player as worthy subject to complete the content. Your "leave and re-queue" opinion just told me that the game has a design error that let this "unlucky" happen.

If you’re having so much trouble you could you know, organize a group with people who need the same gear? I dunno why some people complain so much about pugs yet insist on doing pugs

[snip] How are you going to PUG vet DLC dungeon. If game allow player to PUG vet DLC dungeon, it means They are suppose to be doable bu PUG group.

[snip] not every group is gonna be able to clear every dungeon, if pugs are giving you trouble go join a guild

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

scorpius2k1

If this ever happened I would hope that they keep base set pieces for normal, and create new perfected versions for vet -- similar to what they did with arena gear (Maelstrom, Vateshran, etc).

BXR_Lonestar

Yeah, I'm gunna say no on this one too. You should have to run a dungeon on vet to get the helmet.

TO be perfectly honest, monster helms aren't a be-all, end-all anyways. It's not like your DPS will go miraculously from 30K to 70K just by adding the helmet. At most, your DPS will increase somewhere around 5-8K overall. The support helms are by far, more important than the DPS helms these days.

Furthermore, the monster helms are available for purchase from the Golden in Cyrodil for gold or for AP. Just gather your gold/AP, and be patient for your chosen helmet to show up if you can't complete the dungeon you want to complete. I'm not ashamed to admit that I got my first Earthgore that way. But now, my team can go in and complete Vet Blood Root Forge in roughly an hour (with intermittent potty/snack breaks).

And therein lies the final reason why they shouldn't drop on normal - then you have no incentive to try to improve, as everything you want to get can be obtained on normal. If the helm can be obtained on normal, why even do vet? Purple items are nice, but unless your chasing the jewelry, upgrade materials are cheap. Extra keys? Nope, not worth the extra effort for just ONE extra key.

Bottom line is if there is a vet dungeon you can't complete now, just keep working on your game, try to join a guild and find some like-minded friends, and before you know it, you'll be completing vet content all the time.

milllaurie

Just make the "normal" versions not have the 1pc bonus. That would not add to the power creep and let people get the monster sets if they are struggling.

Dojohoda

I'm not saying whether they should do it or not but, if implemented in the same way as maelstrom arenas, there will be a massive protest from players since they would have to farm monster sets again. It'd be a win-win for casuals.

Another point, unlike backbar maelstrom weapons, the perfected monster set buff would be up all the time, which would cause players who do not rage quit to farm sets again.

Additionally, because of the constant uptime, perfected monster sets would become another factor in build theory as players who use antiquities instead of full monster sets would have to consider the value of the perfected buff ( assuming it's worthy of consideration unlike maelstrom backbar weapons).

I'm on the fence because of the players who struggle with vet dlc dungeons for various reasons.

DrSlaughtr

The golden vendor should allow you to buy all shoulders with AP, similar to the undaunted coffers. I've run these dungeons so many times over the years. I'm just done with repeating the same content just to blow 100+ keys to finally get the weight you need. It's clear they weight the RNG of shoulders in the coffers to throw you the least desirable set in each one in the weights that are least likely to be useful for the set.

jedtb16_ESO

no, don't.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Nope!

Keep at least something behind "difficult" content. Reality is, if you can't clear vet, your combat is likely not at a level where a monster set is going to make much difference. In fact, an individual that cant complete vet should probably be wearing stat gear that doesnt carry extra conditions you need to worry about, so you can focus on your rotation.

I also have absolutely zero interest in grinding perfected helms from scratch, which is what would happen.

AlnilamE

For what it's worth, there was a time period between One Tamriel and Morrowind where helms would be a rare drop in normal. A guildie got the Chudan helm from Mazzatun when it first came out.

I wouldn't be opposed to it being a rare drop, but under the current Sticker Book mechanics, that's not possible anymore, so there goes that idea.

danielpang32 wrote: »

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

danielpang32 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

danielpang32 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Your comment is not helpful and do no benefit to the game.

Wrong. The comment was 100% correct.
If veteran content is too stressfull and difficult and generally repels you, there is no need to improve your gear accordingly because there is no non-veteran content that requires you to wear a monster set. The current state does benefit the game because it provides a challenge to the players and makes them improve their SKILL level (which is far more important than their gear) in the long run.
But knowing ZOS and the attitude of ESO community and looking back at sticker books and transmute stations and imperfected arena weapons, I expect them to dull down the game improve the QoL even more by introducing an imperfected monster helm mechanic in the future. So stay tuned.

You are incorrect. You are not even answering the question. All you said is to avoid doing vet dungeons or improving player skill. How are you going to improve other player skill in PUG?

If you so believe that the gameplay will be "dull down", then tell me how to finish the DLC vet dungeon in PUG. I am playing healer myself, and I dont see what I can do to improve my PUG team DPS so drastically that they can handle the mechanic. Vet dungeon require player to be so dedicate to become a mono-focus role. And there is so many players are playing hybrid build. And they want the helmet to play with and they couldnt do it.

Those popular youtube/ top% are not even trying to follow the mechanic. They are trying to overpower the dungeon by high damage, in order to avoiding the mechanic.

No, I did not say "avoid them". I said grow a pair, queue up, play them, get used to them, improve your skill level and get the reward instead of play the "oh this is too stressful for me give me the reward anyways though kthx"-card. I don't know where this "you can not play vet DLC dungeons in PUG's" narrative comes from. It is pure nonsense. Of course you can PUG vet DLC dungeons. I do it all the time. Sometimes you're unlucky and get a group that doesn't seem to be able to make it. In that case, you can either try or leave and re-queue.

And why are we talking about vet DLC all of a sudden? We are talking about monster helmets, which are available in all veteran dungeons. Is vCoA1 unPUGable too? When did that happen?

All monster helmet is coming from vet dungeon. And vet dungeons are all available under the PUG system. You dont need to bring up the overall accessible basegame content to make your argument agreeable. Because the vet DLC dungeon number are increasing every single year. And they are the biggest problem in PUG system.

If the game allow a somebody run into the PUG vet dungeon, it means the game is seeing this player as worthy subject to complete the content. Your "leave and re-queue" opinion just told me that the game has a design error that let this "unlucky" happen.

If you’re having so much trouble you could you know, organize a group with people who need the same gear? I dunno why some people complain so much about pugs yet insist on doing pugs

[snip] How are you going to PUG vet DLC dungeon. If game allow player to PUG vet DLC dungeon, it means They are suppose to be doable bu PUG group.

How would I PUG a DLC dungeon? Hit P to open party menu, click on Activity Finder, select Specific Dungeon and scroll down the list to the vetDLC I'm looking for and queue.

Would it guarantee that I get it done on the first try? No. But if it did, would it be a challenge?

Let me ask you, OP: How many times have you tried PUGging the specific DLC dungeon you are eyeing?

[edited to remove quote]

Harvokaan

Completely against masks drop in nromal but I supprot changes to golden system, it needs to be changed to more fulfill its role. For now Golden is highly inefficient

hafgood

Whatever happened to learning how to do content? Because that is the answer, learn how to do the dungeons and then you get the reward. It's the basic way the game works, as you get better the rewards get better.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

TheEndBringer wrote: »

The golden vendor should allow you to buy all shoulders with AP, similar to the undaunted coffers. I've run these dungeons so many times over the years. I'm just done with repeating the same content just to blow 100+ keys to finally get the weight you need. It's clear they weight the RNG of shoulders in the coffers to throw you the least desirable set in each one in the weights that are least likely to be useful for the set.

I guess you weren't here when a well known streamer made the same claim. Made a video where he said drops werent even in the monster chest. Rich came with the receipts of his actual drops and called BS. Said streamer came clean and apologized. Random is Random.

I am missing 2 shoulders total. I have not accumulated anywhere near as many keys as a lot of my buddies. System works just fine.

thorwyn

I'm not saying whether they should do it or not but, if implemented in the same way as maelstrom arenas, there will be a massive protest from players since they would have to farm monster sets again. It'd be a win-win for casuals.

Farming all the stuff again is one thing! But even worse: people would also waste a ton of upgraders in the process if they wanted to gold out the perfected versions.

AlnilamE

Dojohoda wrote: »

I'm not saying whether they should do it or not but, if implemented in the same way as maelstrom arenas, there will be a massive protest from players since they would have to farm monster sets again. It'd be a win-win for casuals.

On the bright side, you'd only have to run each dungeon 3 times to get everything.

But yes, people would be upset.

spartaxoxo

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Succuby wrote: »

I already run mailstorm 100 times and than 100 times more ti get the same but peflrfected weapon. See no reason in such changes.

They could have chosen to upgrade our gear to the vet version automatically and it was one of the main devs that made the decision to not do that, and many of his crew disagreed. I would hope they would not repeat that decision as I strongly feel it was a mistake.

We can have stuff have both a perfect and normal version AND not make people refarm perfect gear, the two are not mutually exclusive.

True, unless zos chooses that it be mutually exclusive, as what happened with VMA weapons. Having weapons drop from NMA was a player request and they implemented it and we didn't get exactly what we wanted, and we still technically havn't in that regard. But that is also par for the course for ZOS very very few changes that players request are granted without ZOS adding their own little twist to it.

Do we really trust zos not to throw a similar snag at this? I don't

I kinda do because they got so much backlash against that a dev came forward to say it was all his fault and please place all the heat on him. One of the worst received decisions they have made, I'd have to hope that they wouldn't repeat

Remathilis

I'm not going to weigh in on monster sets in normal, but I'm amused at the whinging about regrinding the helms to get perfected ones. We have weighted RNG: at most you run it three times to get the weights and you're done. 50 transmutes to get the right trait or less to reconstruct it.

Shoulders are another matter, but helms are at best 3 more runs. You'd get them though a few pugs or pledges easily. This isn't like regrinding maelstrom last year where you weren't guaranteed a piece of a set.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

You don't even need a monster set before cp 160. At which point, when you do hit 160, you can easily enough get non dlc monster helmets to start off with until you're proficient enough to get dlc helmets (and many non dlc helmets are just as good as dlc helmets anyway these days). You should have to work your way up to the good stuff.... enough is just handed out in this game as it is. Including getting monster sets from pvp.

ixthUA

I golded my monster sets, making another gold set will be quite expensive. Strongly against perfected monster sets.

DrSlaughtr

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

The golden vendor should allow you to buy all shoulders with AP, similar to the undaunted coffers. I've run these dungeons so many times over the years. I'm just done with repeating the same content just to blow 100+ keys to finally get the weight you need. It's clear they weight the RNG of shoulders in the coffers to throw you the least desirable set in each one in the weights that are least likely to be useful for the set.

I guess you weren't here when a well known streamer made the same claim. Made a video where he said drops werent even in the monster chest. Rich came with the receipts of his actual drops and called BS. Said streamer came clean and apologized. Random is Random.

I am missing 2 shoulders total. I have not accumulated anywhere near as many keys as a lot of my buddies. System works just fine.

So because a player lied that means it's not true? I don't know if it's true. I only know my experience. I've never, ever, gotten the right shoulder in the first coffer, let alone the right weight. I've always had to spend 20 keys MINIMUM.

Yes the system is better than it was way back in the day but it's still there to keep you running content over and over and over and over, but because it's fun or enjoyable, but because the RNG is not favorable.

If they really wanted to disprove that, that could release the drop rates for undaunted but that would be an unwise move.

peacenote

Ehhh. I think with Mythics, arena weapons, and hybridization of sets there are enough options out there that it is less of a big deal these days if you are missing a monster set for a while. You can still be viable without one, yes?

Doesn't seem like a big enough issue to change.

SickDuck

TL;DR: Monster sets are not hard to earn and don't give game breaking advantage. There are multiple options to get them, if none of those work for you, just move along...

These days you can have a pass on monster sets without really losing out that much dps or utility. Not to mention, if you think this will give you that so wanted boost to join the big boys club, you will be disappointed.

Non-dlc dungeons veteran dungeons are really easy, even if there are 1-2 clueless people in a pug group it goes through just fine. DLC ones can be trickier but still I find 8 out 10 pug runs to finish it alright, as long as not aiming for HM.

1. Read a quick guide on the dungeon to understand the critical mechanics. There are many good and detailed ones on the internet.
2. Complete the dungeon on normal at least once, preferably a few times for DLC ones, and watch for those crucial mechanics.
3. Ask guild, zone, friends to join/help you for a veteran run. If this is against your moral code or belief, just queue to a veteran run. Best way to queue is on pledge days, waiting time for all roles are much better, and lot of people spam chat to recruit others for a run.

Most of the time it will be just fine. Sometimes not, learn to cut your losses in time and don't be too frustrated about it. The first part is the most important though. The difference between good and bad groups, as long as they are not clueless on the mechs, is mainly just completion time. A good group may do it in 10-20 minutes, while a weak one can take 30-60 minutes for the same. So if you see clueless people around, try and educate them. If not listening vote them out. If that does not work, well then it's time to quit and hope for a better group next time.

And if you say you don't want to do any of the above, then probably you don't need those sets at all. But should not be handed over on a silver plate.

SickDuck

While I personally not the greatest fan of the perfected monster set idea, it could work as a compromise. Those who say rage quit on this, I'd just would like to remind that you'd need to run the desired dungeon 3 times (at most!) to get all the new head piece, to improve your existing build slightly. I doubt ZOS would add full stat bonuses on the perfected version, probably something along the 40-50% mark.

That is hardly a grind, probably all could be done with the most needed pieces on day 1, and get all the combos doing pledges casually with one character for the next month-and-a-bit. (Using the gained keys to get the shoulders)

Nestor

I have some Blue Monster Helms. At one point, they must have dropped in Normal. Or was it from a Key in the early days?

SickDuck

Nestor wrote: »

I have some Blue Monster Helms. At one point, they must have dropped in Normal. Or was it from a Key in the early days?

Yes, I remember... Could be from coffer but definitely not from normal.

Also, not forget that for a long time monster helms only dropped as a fairly low rng chance for each player, rather than a guaranteed loot. Ah, and trading was not possible either. We came a long way towards casual, not sure if we need to make more steps in any directions.

Nogawd

No.

You have to have progression in a game. This is not about participation trophies, where a lot of posters seem to want to go with it.

spartaxoxo

Nogawd wrote: »

No.

You have to have progression in a game. This is not about participation trophies, where a lot of posters seem to want to go with it.

Normal > Perfected is progression

CristiC

Stormfist, Nerien'eth, Iceheart and Selene are the best non-dlc pve dps monster sets in the game, with a dps of 4k+ in dungeons, 6k+ in trials, all non-optimized groups, it's up to the player and player alone to get these numbers, in the end. All these dungeons are doable with crafted sets, the only obstacle is player skill. Just like the maelstrom fiasco, normal monster sets wont boost your dps by a large margin if you don't know how to use them. Like, I've seen players running Selene and all they did was use snipe, crazy, just crazy. Imagine having to re-farm the perfected helmets and be at the mercy of rng when it comes to getting the shoulders with keys, it's nuts.

Xandreia_

Vet dungeons are easy once you know the mechanics... you could honesty look it up on alcast or something and relay to the group you're in, mechanics in vet dlc dungeons are typically simple and easy to complete such as matching shapes in mhk or jumping in moving puddles in icp, they are meant to be easily completed. The only reason I could see them being difficult is if you have negative dps or a bad tank 🤷‍♀️