Maybe it is time to return to "adventure zones" delivered as the zone DLC or chapter.
SilverBride wrote: »Maybe it is time to return to "adventure zones" delivered as the zone DLC or chapter.
Craglorn was originally an adventure zone but it failed badly and had to have its difficulty turned way down. It's still more difficult than the other zones and very few players are actually questing or grouping up there. It's turned into a farming and group forming zone. I very seriously doubt another adventure zone would do any better.
SilverBride wrote: »When we give feedback we don't get to say how it will be responded to and we are not guaranteed that any solution will be how we envisioned it.
This thread is about overland. That means questing and, above all, exploration. Fans of the series expect Tamriel to be a dangerous place once you leave the roads. In ESO, Tamriel is a caricature of a dangerous place. That is what this thread is about. That is what I think most posters here want ZOS to address and in a way that feels true to that ES experience.
SilverBride wrote: »I'm not saying players shouldn't make suggestions. But when there are repeated complaints that the story bosses die too fast and they die before they complete their dialogue etc... well now they don't.
SilverBride wrote: »I'm not saying players shouldn't make suggestions. But when there are repeated complaints that the story bosses die too fast and they die before they complete their dialogue etc... well now they don't.
That doesn't change the fact that story bosses are still incredibly easy, though, so I'd say that it's worth repeating that an option to make fights like that more memorable (with the aforementioned difficulty sliders, hard mode scrolls etc.) would be a great addition to the game.
And it's not like only "ESO veterans" would appreciate a more difficult Overland. Posts by new players about the lack of difficulty pop up pretty regularly on ESO's subreddit too.
SilverBride wrote: »ESO is a multi player game and not all those playing it had played the original single player series, so not everyone has those same expectations.
SilverBride wrote: »ESO has a casual questing experience so all players can do it.
SilverBride wrote: »I don't forsee that changing.
Well we're getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we know the Devs seem to acknowledge we exist as a demographic. On the other the features they supposedly develop to address that demographic keep missing the mark by the proverbial mile. If nothing else, it would be nice to clear up where this perplexing discrepancy is coming from.
SilverBride wrote: »Well we're getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we know the Devs seem to acknowledge we exist as a demographic. On the other the features they supposedly develop to address that demographic keep missing the mark by the proverbial mile. If nothing else, it would be nice to clear up where this perplexing discrepancy is coming from.
I think they are doing what they can to bring more challenges into overland without making the story too difficult for everyone else. World Bosses are part of overland and their difficulty has increased to a point that many of us don't even bother with them any more. Story bosses now have invulnerable phases and are much longer fights. Both of these things could be seen as solutions for what players asked for... more difficulty in overland and more difficulty with story bosses. I don't see a discrepancy here.
Bastion Nymics may not be what players expected but they are an additional challenging experience that is part of overland.
SilverBride wrote: »Well we're getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we know the Devs seem to acknowledge we exist as a demographic. On the other the features they supposedly develop to address that demographic keep missing the mark by the proverbial mile. If nothing else, it would be nice to clear up where this perplexing discrepancy is coming from.
I think they are doing what they can to bring more challenges into overland without making the story too difficult for everyone else. World Bosses are part of overland and their difficulty has increased to a point that many of us don't even bother with them any more. Story bosses now have invulnerable phases and are much longer fights. Both of these things could be seen as solutions for what players asked for... more difficulty in overland and more difficulty with story bosses. I don't see a discrepancy here.
Bastion Nymics may not be what players expected but they are an additional challenging experience that is part of overland.
Not what they can, what they choose to do. There is a clear solution to this issue and it isn't being implemented.
SilverBride wrote: »it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.
SilverBride wrote: »it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.
Eh, it's not as if ZOS will implement some suggestion from this thread the moment you stop arguing against it. In that sense you can no more defend that experience than anyone else here can change it. It's up to ZOS.
SilverBride wrote: »What is the point of a 3 year old thread if it doesn't bring some kind of resolution? Why keep the discussion going if nothing more is to be done? Why not just say "This is the final answer.... *final answer*.... and we are closing this thread now." and put it to rest? It has long passed any sense of productive discussion and only serves to keep players stirred up.
The only thing that can be inferred from this thread still being open is that the people running the forum expect overland difficulty to remain a topic of enduring interest in the community. No more, no less.
spartaxoxo wrote: »This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.
They have also addressed it in interviews on multiple occasions.
They have also created things like Bastian Nymic to address it. It's a tone deaf solution but it's a solution that nevertheless required resources and time.
It is very clear that even though we're in the minority, we are a sizable one. It might only be a few players in this thread still, due it's age and lack of response. But this request is also all over social media.
They scrapped the Q4 DLC for Infinite Archive. It's clear that they want to address the issue. They just won't address it in a way that makes sense because they do not understand. They have never shown understanding of the debuff suggestion. They have never shown understanding of the core problem all these solutions these complaints are about. They think it's just combat. It's not.
SilverBride wrote: »I find the overland content meaningful just as it is. It's the story, not dying to a pack of wolves, that makes it meaningful to me.
They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback. However they have said that some players still find overland difficult, and that it needs to be easy enough so that everyone can do it.
World Bosses, Dungeon Bosses, Trial Bosses, etc. now have immune phases. There have been a lot of complaints over these because prolonged fights are not what most players want.
I am not opposed if they want to give players a debuff in one form or another, but I don't know if there is really that much interest in it.
[Edited to consolidate and clarify]
SilverBride wrote: »When we give feedback we don't get to say how it will be responded to and we are not guaranteed that any solution will be how we envisioned it.
This thread is about overland. That means questing and, above all, exploration. Fans of the series expect Tamriel to be a dangerous place once you leave the roads. In ESO, Tamriel is a caricature of a dangerous place. That is what this thread is about. That is what I think most posters here want ZOS to address and in a way that feels true to that ES experience.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Okay, now that the address issue is stated. I want to say that while the developers have addressed the issue, their answers have been completely tone deaf.
They haven't addressed any of the concerns that vet players are complaining about. And instead did the one thing that we asked them not to do which was make a solution that makes stuff harder for everyone. The result is that casuals have less stuff to do because the world bosses and the like are annoying for them now. But, none of the vet player concerns were heard, so they still have no reason to go overland.
We didn't want immunity phase on world boss fights? We didn't want an endless arena or a glorified extra dungeon. We wanted a compelling story that actually gives us a reason to use the overland. World bosses and the like don't satisfy that.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »I'm not saying players shouldn't make suggestions. But when there are repeated complaints that the story bosses die too fast and they die before they complete their dialogue etc... well now they don't.
That doesn't change the fact that story bosses are still incredibly easy, though, so I'd say that it's worth repeating that an option to make fights like that more memorable (with the aforementioned difficulty sliders, hard mode scrolls etc.) would be a great addition to the game.
And it's not like only "ESO veterans" would appreciate a more difficult Overland. Posts by new players about the lack of difficulty pop up pretty regularly on ESO's subreddit too.
I don't find the story bosses incredibly easy on all of my characters. For some they are more difficult and take longer, depending on my build.
I see posts stating that they think overland is too easy, mostly by players that have stopped playing or just started and expected a more Dark Souls like experience. That isn't what ESO is and therefore it's not the game for everyone. But it is the game for most of us that have been playing for years now.
But I never hear players say anything about the difficulty while I'm in game questing overland. At least I hadn't until a couple of weeks ago. I was questing West Weald and a player whose name I recognized from this thread started complaining in zone chat. They were saying things like "I just came back to the game and bought Gold Road and it's so boring." No one replied. Then "Does anyone else find this too easy and boring?" Once again no one replied. After about 5 minutes of this they finally stopped. The lack of response by the zone was very telling about what the general consensus is.
SilverBride wrote: »it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.
spartaxoxo wrote: »They think it's just combat. It's not.
spartaxoxo wrote: »This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.
spartaxoxo wrote: »This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.
They have also addressed it in interviews on multiple occasions.
They have also created things like Bastian Nymic to address it. It's a tone deaf solution but it's a solution that nevertheless required resources and time.
It is very clear that even though we're in the minority, we are a sizable one. It might only be a few players in this thread still, due it's age and lack of response. But this request is also all over social media.
They scrapped the Q4 DLC for Infinite Archive. It's clear that they want to address the issue. They just won't address it in a way that makes sense because they do not understand. They have never shown understanding of the debuff suggestion. They have never shown understanding of the core problem all these solutions these complaints are about. They think it's just combat. It's not.
I think they do understand, though.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.
This thread was created to stop new threads from popping up, devolving and being locked only to have another appear a week later, usually started by the same handful of posters. Rather than shut down the conversation they made this thread to keep it in one place and stop the chain of thread after thread in the general forum.
SilverBride wrote: »it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.
But when you do this you act as if the people in the discussion are trying to take something away from you when we aren't. Sure there are people who want to change overland for everyone, we've both seen it. But I don't think anyone in this discussion right now has any interest in that. One the previous page I said that explicitly. I strongly believe that most people who want change would be perfectly happy with an equitable solution that satisfies everyone, and we know it exists, so I don't think there's much of a reason to exhaust yourself over it because we largely agree on what needs to be done.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.
But when you do this you act as if the people in the discussion are trying to take something away from you when we aren't. Sure there are people who want to change overland for everyone, we've both seen it. But I don't think anyone in this discussion right now has any interest in that. One the previous page I said that explicitly. I strongly believe that most people who want change would be perfectly happy with an equitable solution that satisfies everyone, and we know it exists, so I don't think there's much of a reason to exhaust yourself over it because we largely agree on what needs to be done.
I don't think anyone wants to take anything away from others or has any ill intentions. But the truth of the matter is that the things like more difficult bosses with invulnerable phases has taken things away from those of us who now find these too difficult and can no longer enjoy them. And I wonder if complaints about bosses dying too fast led to this.
We can all agree that things aren't always addressed the way we wish, and I don't want anything else rendered undoable for me because of changes to appease those wanting a difficult overland experience.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.
But when you do this you act as if the people in the discussion are trying to take something away from you when we aren't. Sure there are people who want to change overland for everyone, we've both seen it. But I don't think anyone in this discussion right now has any interest in that. One the previous page I said that explicitly. I strongly believe that most people who want change would be perfectly happy with an equitable solution that satisfies everyone, and we know it exists, so I don't think there's much of a reason to exhaust yourself over it because we largely agree on what needs to be done.
I don't think anyone wants to take anything away from others or has any ill intentions. But the truth of the matter is that the things like more difficult bosses with invulnerable phases has taken things away from those of us who now find these too difficult and can no longer enjoy them. And I wonder if complaints about bosses dying too fast led to this.
We can all agree that things aren't always addressed the way we wish, and I don't want anything else rendered undoable for me because of changes to appease those wanting a difficult overland experience.
spartaxoxo wrote: »So, why not ask for them to give us what we actually asked for instead rather than doing their own thing. Because that's a direct result of them doing what they think is best instead of just giving us the toggle we've been asking for.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »So, why not ask for them to give us what we actually asked for instead rather than doing their own thing. Because that's a direct result of them doing what they think is best instead of just giving us the toggle we've been asking for.
The toggle wasn't brought up until later in the thread. The first requests were for a separate veteran overland. It wasn't until later that other solutions that only affect the player using them became the most supported options.
But there have been multiple posts about how boring overland is and how story bosses died too fast and couldn't even finish their dialogue. They read all those, too.
And even though I would never use any of the options I have supported sliders and debuffs and other such solutions that only affect the player using them. But instead now World Bosses and Public Dungeon group events were increased in difficulty and length for everyone.