Theist_VII wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »They do care what kind of game we want. This is one reason One Tamriel happened, and the game has been very successful because of it.
Kind of telling that you sourced a 2016 update as the last time any feedback had an answer…
I never said that One Tamriel was the last time feedback had an answer. I gave it as an example because it fits the topic of this thread. One Tamriel removed the veteran overland levels and it was very successful. Why would they bring them back now?
Yet the majority of people asking for meaningful combat in overland don’t ask for veteran levels returning as they were alt unfriendly.
That being said, I stop in this thread from time to time and have seen so many great alternatives and suggestions that would appease everyone, yet nothing. It’s radio silent, and there have been years between, with zero development towards a middle ground based on player feedback.
TheDarkRuler wrote: »Most people engaging in Overland content just want to quest or doing their dailies.
However, so many enemies are not being played at all because they can be skipped.
The dragging of enemies through overland or delves is already a thing and if you increase the difficulty more, it will just increase because running is faster than fighting.
In my own fantasy rainbow unicorn perfect version of an Elder Scrolls Online, 90 percent of all eNeMiEs (i.e. the 743 random things that all want to kill me for no reason) that exist in each zone would just disappear entirely, allowing me to explore in peace. But if I DID get randomly attacked by 3 or 4 cutthroat bandits out in the wilds, they would pose a significant threat to me and their sharp pointy objects slashing at my throat would make me bleed and possibly die. What I can't stand about most of these moderns games, especially MMOs, is that you are constantly besieged by massive armies of derpy, pathetic, endless hordes of worthless loot pinatas who never pose any threat whatsoever but are just there to annoy me and slow me down. It feels like such antiquated and mind-numbing game design at this point. You'd think after so many decades of this old RPG trope, they'd be able to break this pattern. But like I said, I'm just fantasizing at this point.
Here's dreaming...
TheDarkRuler wrote: »Most people engaging in Overland content just want to quest or doing their dailies.
However, so many enemies are not being played at all because they can be skipped.
The dragging of enemies through overland or delves is already a thing and if you increase the difficulty more, it will just increase because running is faster than fighting.
I personally don't even care about the trash mobs, they can stay trash for all I care... Especially regarding their health pools, the last thing I would want is just a slog through a bunch of bullet sponges to make things just take longer.
The practical things which need to change are:
- Damage multipliers, especially from enemies (i.e., if I'm surrounded by 6 bandits all hacking away at my face with big sharp objects and/or hurling flaming balls of death out of magical staffs, it should hurt;
- resource recovery (especially health recovery) should be nerfed (i.e. I shouldn't passively regenerate health during combat faster than a giant troll can reduce it while he's mashing my brains into jelly with his massive arms);
- quest bosses should have at least enough health to last at least a decent minute in a fight, even if it's just to give the illusion that he was powerful.
In my own fantasy rainbow unicorn perfect version of an Elder Scrolls Online, 90 percent of all eNeMiEs (i.e. the 743 random things that all want to kill me for no reason) that exist in each zone would just disappear entirely, allowing me to explore in peace. But if I DID get randomly attacked by 3 or 4 cutthroat bandits out in the wilds, they would pose a significant threat to me and their sharp pointy objects slashing at my throat would make me bleed and possibly die. What I can't stand about most of these moderns games, especially MMOs, is that you are constantly besieged by massive armies of derpy, pathetic, endless hordes of worthless loot pinatas who never pose any threat whatsoever but are just there to annoy me and slow me down. It feels like such antiquated and mind-numbing game design at this point. You'd think after so many decades of this old RPG trope, they'd be able to break this pattern. But like I said, I'm just fantasizing at this point.
The bare minimum I would ask for is some kind of debuff slider I could apply to my alts, so that my level 1 scrub doesn't feel invincible out of the gate. It would be more fun to play just a regular Bosmer scout, trying to sneak around an enemy camp without being caught to complete a dangerous mission, knowing full well that if I'm detected, the arrows the 14 enemy soldiers will shoot through my neck would probably kill me, adding danger and suspense to the adventure. As it stands now, they detect me and pepper me with projectiles and a battery of swings with their swords, and there is no real consequence other than "oh darn, I guess I'll have to sprint away for 15 seconds or so until they reset." (And this, at levels 1-10 with no skills, no CP, and no gear to speak of... just me holding the sprint key in a straight line away from their camp.)
Here's dreaming...
SilverBride wrote: »World Bosses, Dungeon Bosses, Trial Bosses, etc. now have immune phases. There have been a lot of complaints over these because prolonged fights are not what most players want.
SilverBride wrote: »World Bosses, Dungeon Bosses, Trial Bosses, etc. now have immune phases. There have been a lot of complaints over these because prolonged fights are not what most players want.
Bosses have had immunity phases for a while, but they have been more the exception than the rule. With Gold Road, they seemed to expand on this policy.
Personally, my objection isn't that the fight is prolonged. For me, the fight takes as long as it takes. My objection is that it feels like immunity is being misused by the developers, and it feels more like cheating than challenging. It feels like "no, you aren't going to kill my boss, go fight these other things instead."
alpha_synuclein wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »World Bosses, Dungeon Bosses, Trial Bosses, etc. now have immune phases. There have been a lot of complaints over these because prolonged fights are not what most players want.
Bosses have had immunity phases for a while, but they have been more the exception than the rule. With Gold Road, they seemed to expand on this policy.
Personally, my objection isn't that the fight is prolonged. For me, the fight takes as long as it takes. My objection is that it feels like immunity is being misused by the developers, and it feels more like cheating than challenging. It feels like "no, you aren't going to kill my boss, go fight these other things instead."
This. I have nothing against long fights. I have a lot against fights that are artificially prolonged because noone has better idea for a filler than a wave of adds...
...there is one boss that can actually do damage while invulnerable and the adds are running around.
SilverBride wrote: »They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback.
SilverBride wrote: »They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback.
I will never accept this as a valid counterpoint. Bastion Nymics are not the kind of content that anyone is referring to when they discuss the inadequacies of overland.
SilverBride wrote: »They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback.
I will never accept this as a valid counterpoint. Bastion Nymics are not the kind of content that anyone is referring to when they discuss the inadequacies of overland. Bastion Nymics function nearly identically to dungeon content, which is not part of the overland discussion. The only real difference is the "kill four overland bosses" mechanic which doesn't integrate into overland aside from the fact that it happens to take place there. The rest of overland in the Telvanni Peninsula has the same challenge levels as any other zone in the game. It doesn't address the overland problem in any way.
Yeah, with each DLC, I found the content of that land, bosses, etc has definitely been harder.
SilverBride wrote: »They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback.
I will never accept this as a valid counterpoint. Bastion Nymics are not the kind of content that anyone is referring to when they discuss the inadequacies of overland. Bastion Nymics function nearly identically to dungeon content, which is not part of the overland discussion. The only real difference is the "kill four overland bosses" mechanic which doesn't integrate into overland aside from the fact that it happens to take place there. The rest of overland in the Telvanni Peninsula has the same challenge levels as any other zone in the game. It doesn't address the overland problem in any way.
ZOS has said that they do not want solutions. That is their job. They said so. From where I sit, harder overland content is a solution. To extend that thought, the "problem" is not that overland is too easy. That is merely a justification for the presented solution. All of the options presented in here to implement it are just different ways to approach the solution. The core problem seems to be that high skill level players are not adequately challenged by the content in the game. These players have presented the solution that this could be remedied by veteran or harder overland. ZOS has not picked that solution, as near as I can tell.
ZOS said that they want to put this harder content elsewhere. They said this years ago. Far enough back in time that Oblivion Portals, Bastion Nymic, and Infinite Archive sure look like responses. This year, the Gold Road bosses that people have been commenting on in other threads also seem to be ZOS addressing the need for better and more challenging content.
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback.
I will never accept this as a valid counterpoint. Bastion Nymics are not the kind of content that anyone is referring to when they discuss the inadequacies of overland.
With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.
https://eso-u.com/articles/eso_developer_ama__las_vegas_global_reveal_2023
SilverBride wrote: »ZoS has made their stand very clear multiple times. Some players may not be happy about the things that have been done, but they did hear players and they did do something to address it.
SilverBride wrote: »ZoS has made their stand very clear multiple times. Some players may not be happy about the things that have been done, but they did hear players and they did do something to address it.
No, they didn't. They didn't address it. That's the problem. They looked at the issue and then decided to swerve left and create a different kind of content which has nothing to do with overland, so it should come as no surprise that people are still asking for the problem to be addressed.
SilverBride wrote: »There is a lot of truth in the old adage “Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it”.
SilverBride wrote: »When we give feedback we don't get to say how it will be responded to and we are not guaranteed that any solution will be how we envisioned it.
SilverBride wrote: »They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback.
I will never accept this as a valid counterpoint. Bastion Nymics are not the kind of content that anyone is referring to when they discuss the inadequacies of overland. Bastion Nymics function nearly identically to dungeon content, which is not part of the overland discussion. The only real difference is the "kill four overland bosses" mechanic which doesn't integrate into overland aside from the fact that it happens to take place there. The rest of overland in the Telvanni Peninsula has the same challenge levels as any other zone in the game. It doesn't address the overland problem in any way.
ZOS has said that they do not want solutions. That is their job. They said so. From where I sit, harder overland content is a solution. To extend that thought, the "problem" is not that overland is too easy. That is merely a justification for the presented solution. All of the options presented in here to implement it are just different ways to approach the solution. The core problem seems to be that high skill level players are not adequately challenged by the content in the game. These players have presented the solution that this could be remedied by veteran or harder overland. ZOS has not picked that solution, as near as I can tell.
ZOS said that they want to put this harder content elsewhere. They said this years ago. Far enough back in time that Oblivion Portals, Bastion Nymic, and Infinite Archive sure look like responses. This year, the Gold Road bosses that people have been commenting on in other threads also seem to be ZOS addressing the need for better and more challenging content.
To be clear, I am not asking for harder overland content. I am asking for the option to increase the challenge in overland content. I accept that there are people who want things to remain as they are and that's fine, this is an MMO and my opinion is not shared by everyone. Increasing the challenge for everyone is a mistake and will lead to complaints from people who enjoy the game as it is. ZOS simply needs to provide a way for people who want a more challenging overland game to increase the challenge for their own characters, yet they act as if this is an insurmountable task. It isn't.
Clearly, they are not currently heading in the "challenging overland" direction, and that does not seem to be changing, so maybe it is time to address what they are doing?
Maybe it is time to return to "adventure zones" delivered as the zone DLC or chapter.