TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »Rich as already said no though so this thread should be closed honestly since they no longer have interest in this.
I feel like the fact that the thread remains open is exactly why we should keep hammering. It may be that they simply want a place for people to go and rant in order to keep us out of General, but at the same time, it's the largest thread on the forum if I'm not mistaken. That has to count for something. And there are plenty of good ideas with reasonable discussion as well. If someone from ZOS actually reads this thread, who knows? It might actually make a difference.
The playerbase is the major problem with how vocal they are about not wanting this system. People don’t want hard content they want to be able to 1-3 tap everything and it be dead that way they can complete the zone and be done with it. But even if they get to keep their normal mode then they complain it’s not fair others get increased rewards or incentives to play on a harder difficulty. You can’t win with this player base.
As much I like eso the community will shoot itself in the foot before they accept change even if it’s a good one. Notice how zos never actually push boundaries with any update sure the content is new but it’s meh. It’s because of the outrage and backlash they would receive. How dare they add something new to our perfect game. You can’t win man the community will destroy what’s left of this game as most of the people I play and played with have no intentions of coming back do to it just being boring and stagnant most of us are just waiting for the next mmo that’s actually good. ESO has had 10 years to be good ever update is just meh.
If you don't think this would be fun, okay, that's your opinion, but respectfully it sounds like you're not interested in seeing this feature implemented anyway.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7897421/#Comment_7897421
from April 2023 - IIRC that's the last time any staff member addressed this.
And the thing about this quote that drives me up the wall is that Cadwell's Silver and Gold, just like Infinite Archive or Dungeons or Trials, didn't solve the underlying problem. And it's not a surprise that nobody played it because for a lot of people it was just repeating old content. I'm just so baffled over why they continually put forth so much effort in creating alternative content for people who want a challenge when they could just put that same effort into a system that would help players experience the overland game in a way that suits their skill level.
It's not an insurmountable problem. They could do it without alienating their casual audience, but for whatever reason after years of ideas put forth by the community and I assume, their own designers, they either refuse to solve the problem or just can't figure it out.
TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »Rich as already said no though so this thread should be closed honestly since they no longer have interest in this.
I feel like the fact that the thread remains open is exactly why we should keep hammering. It may be that they simply want a place for people to go and rant in order to keep us out of General, but at the same time, it's the largest thread on the forum if I'm not mistaken. That has to count for something. And there are plenty of good ideas with reasonable discussion as well. If someone from ZOS actually reads this thread, who knows? It might actually make a difference.
The playerbase is the major problem with how vocal they are about not wanting this system. People don’t want hard content they want to be able to 1-3 tap everything and it be dead that way they can complete the zone and be done with it. But even if they get to keep their normal mode then they complain it’s not fair others get increased rewards or incentives to play on a harder difficulty. You can’t win with this player base.
As much I like eso the community will shoot itself in the foot before they accept change even if it’s a good one. Notice how zos never actually push boundaries with any update sure the content is new but it’s meh. It’s because of the outrage and backlash they would receive. How dare they add something new to our perfect game. You can’t win man the community will destroy what’s left of this game as most of the people I play and played with have no intentions of coming back do to it just being boring and stagnant most of us are just waiting for the next mmo that’s actually good. ESO has had 10 years to be good ever update is just meh.
I'm going to assume the devs won't want to introduce a slider that requires the player to adjust it from encounter to encounter as they move through overland, often getting just wrong.If you don't think this would be fun, okay, that's your opinion, but respectfully it sounds like you're not interested in seeing this feature implemented anyway.
So I suspect that is the actual problem a request for a difficulty slider entails.
But of course I do not know for sure. I know they have chose a different route (master content with increasing difficulty) instead and I'm not going to assume that was just a whim.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7897421/#Comment_7897421
from April 2023 - IIRC that's the last time any staff member addressed this.
And the thing about this quote that drives me up the wall is that Cadwell's Silver and Gold, just like Infinite Archive or Dungeons or Trials, didn't solve the underlying problem. And it's not a surprise that nobody played it because for a lot of people it was just repeating old content. I'm just so baffled over why they continually put forth so much effort in creating alternative content for people who want a challenge when they could just put that same effort into a system that would help players experience the overland game in a way that suits their skill level.
It's not an insurmountable problem. They could do it without alienating their casual audience, but for whatever reason after years of ideas put forth by the community and I assume, their own designers, they either refuse to solve the problem or just can't figure it out.
I’m all for vet overland but infinite archive was one of the best content they released over the years, offering tons of replay value, challenging gameplay and unique rewards. Cutting boring zone dlc in favor of archive and this year pvp update is the step in the right direction. It’s absolutely far more entertaining than some half cooked debuff with nothing special about it other than selfnerfing yourself for no benefits whatsoever. If this thread would ever be addressed I really hope it would be separate vet instances with unique achievements and rewards. Endless archive clearly shows that it’s possible to scale the same mobs differently on top of random encounters (marauders) and extra mechanics.
The idea of "master content" may work for some people, but ESO is based on The Elder Scrolls franchise, the focus of which has always been exploration and adventure, not repeating the same content over and over.
The idea of "master content" may work for some people, but ESO is based on The Elder Scrolls franchise, the focus of which has always been exploration and adventure, not repeating the same content over and over.
For what it's worth, I agree with this. We can literally race everywhere on horseback without ever having to worry about who or what is in our way, with the exceptions of cliffs and lava. Same with all the delves you can go in without having to pay much attention to your surroundings.
I don't think it's just casuals ZoS has to consider here. If the forum is anything to go by, these days there's a lot of players who actually don't even like playing the game. They just want to get ...... stuff .... as fast as possible. Imagine getting held up by an unexpected encounter while you're rushing to your 60th dolmen of the day! How annoying .....
colossalvoids wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Players simply race past everything going from point A to point B. It happens All the time currently and no amount of changing things around will change it.
That is why people want harder overland; Current overland is kind of boring running simulator.
But no worries, it will stay the same boring running simulator - developers do not give a heck about this thread it seems.
completely disagree
No One is Looking for Harder Overland - which counts for Nothing - just for the sake of more combat.
Would not comment about point A and B stuff as it highly depends on a player at questions but more combat isn't exactly it, more like more meaningful encounters that are challenging enough to bring up specific emotional response, showcase it's moveset (which is garbage currently, sorry) and fit the narrative for example, there are different reasons for different people obviously.
I'm not surprised this is even more demanded nowadays, not because ESO becomes more and more casual from endgame player standpoint, but because the gaming climate overall. A lot of people are sick and tired of handholding and easy modes, hence games like Elden Ring are able to get "game of the year" 's and become a cult instantly, getting a lot broader audience than pretty niche Souls games had. It's not just the difficulty, that's a lot of stuff to unpack making people uncomfortable in current eso environment and it's valid enough.
Well said, thank you.Rafilondon wrote: »snip
Thank you for acknowledging that your opinion isn't held by everyone and that we can all have something that works for us. I have no doubt that ZOS understands what their casual players want and would find a way to accommodate everyone if they did ever decide to implement an overland challenge feature.I don't play games for challenge. I play games for fun. Challenge isn't fun - real life challenge is quite enough for me. Which is why I hope they manage to find an optional way for YOU to have fun, without me losing MY fun.
I don't think they mentioned "majority" in their statements. Clearly ZOS is doing well with their current model - well enough to ignore the pleas of people begging for challenging overland for years. It's not about what the majority wants, but I know that a number of my friends have left the game due to lack of interest citing too-easy content, and content creators like Old Salty Sean have done the same. It's not as if this opinion is held by a vanishingly small number of people, and the demand is clear, even if the interest is not held by a majority. This opinion ignores the fact that people who don't like what the game has to offer them often leave, and so they aren't here to provide their input.barney2525 wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Players simply race past everything going from point A to point B. It happens All the time currently and no amount of changing things around will change it.
That is why people want harder overland; Current overland is kind of boring running simulator.
But no worries, it will stay the same boring running simulator - developers do not give a heck about this thread it seems.
completely disagree
No One is Looking for Harder Overland - which counts for Nothing - just for the sake of more combat.
Would not comment about point A and B stuff as it highly depends on a player at questions but more combat isn't exactly it, more like more meaningful encounters that are challenging enough to bring up specific emotional response, showcase it's moveset (which is garbage currently, sorry) and fit the narrative for example, there are different reasons for different people obviously.
I'm not surprised this is even more demanded nowadays, not because ESO becomes more and more casual from endgame player standpoint, but because the gaming climate overall. A lot of people are sick and tired of handholding and easy modes, hence games like Elden Ring are able to get "game of the year" 's and become a cult instantly, getting a lot broader audience than pretty niche Souls games had. It's not just the difficulty, that's a lot of stuff to unpack making people uncomfortable in current eso environment and it's valid enough.
I completely disagree with what you think the 'Majority' of players want. I think this is what you want, and you are welcome to your opinion. But I see every day the runners avoiding all 'challenges' to get whereever they are going. I have Never seen anyone in any chat complaining that Overland or Delves were 'not challenging enough'.
I don't play games for challenge. I play games for fun. Challenge isn't fun - real life challenge is quite enough for me. Which is why I hope they manage to find an optional way for YOU to have fun, without me losing MY fun.
From what I've just read about the LOTRO 'landscape difficulty' system it is not just a player-side thing. The first player to score a hit on a mob/boss sets its difficulty. The potential for griefing and exploits seems quite substantial.
spartaxoxo wrote: »But I don't play that game so I'm basing it on secondhand accounts. Doesn't sound like much griefing though.
spartaxoxo wrote: »But I don't play that game so I'm basing it on secondhand accounts. Doesn't sound like much griefing though.
Same here. Such an obvious question: "what happens if people with different difficulty tiers engage the same enemy". Apart from some (contradictory) comments on forums or reddit I can't find a thing.
barney2525 wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Players simply race past everything going from point A to point B. It happens All the time currently and no amount of changing things around will change it.
That is why people want harder overland; Current overland is kind of boring running simulator.
But no worries, it will stay the same boring running simulator - developers do not give a heck about this thread it seems.
completely disagree
No One is Looking for Harder Overland - which counts for Nothing - just for the sake of more combat.
Would not comment about point A and B stuff as it highly depends on a player at questions but more combat isn't exactly it, more like more meaningful encounters that are challenging enough to bring up specific emotional response, showcase it's moveset (which is garbage currently, sorry) and fit the narrative for example, there are different reasons for different people obviously.
I'm not surprised this is even more demanded nowadays, not because ESO becomes more and more casual from endgame player standpoint, but because the gaming climate overall. A lot of people are sick and tired of handholding and easy modes, hence games like Elden Ring are able to get "game of the year" 's and become a cult instantly, getting a lot broader audience than pretty niche Souls games had. It's not just the difficulty, that's a lot of stuff to unpack making people uncomfortable in current eso environment and it's valid enough.
Then please explain why the vast majority of players I encounter, be it Overland or in a Delve or Public Dungeon are running at blazing speeds past everything. They seem to just want to go from point A to point B, do something specific, then run on to point C. They are Not looking for anything 'challenging' . They simply want to perform the immediate task and get rewarded for it. Every day you can go into a Delve - an enclosed area - and find the players running full speed with a line of NPCs slowly following until the NPC gets too far from it's station.
I completely disagree with what you think the 'Majority' of players want. I think this is what you want, and you are welcome to your opinion. But I see every day the runners avoiding all 'challenges' to get whereever they are going. I have Never seen anyone in any chat complaining that Overland or Delves were 'not challenging enough'.
Once every 6 mths or so, I come back to check this thread to see if I should resub to ESO (I'm in the camp that finds the overland combat mind numbingly boring and easy). I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but just want to point that out to any ESO devs that read this. I'm continuing GW2 and New World for now, the latter has significant problems but I find the combat difficulty just right. GW2 has elite and vet mobs overland.
I know ESO has harder content but the scaling is off. Either content is super easy solo, or it's impossible solo (mostly, I know some good players and meta builds can do it).
I do that too! I look for this Thread to see if they fixed the mindnumbingly easy Overlandcontent.
But I dont even see a plan. Am I missing something?
TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »Rich as already said no though so this thread should be closed honestly since they no longer have interest in this.
I feel like the fact that the thread remains open is exactly why we should keep hammering. It may be that they simply want a place for people to go and rant in order to keep us out of General, but at the same time, it's the largest thread on the forum if I'm not mistaken. That has to count for something. And there are plenty of good ideas with reasonable discussion as well. If someone from ZOS actually reads this thread, who knows? It might actually make a difference.
The playerbase is the major problem with how vocal they are about not wanting this system. People don’t want hard content they want to be able to 1-3 tap everything and it be dead that way they can complete the zone and be done with it. But even if they get to keep their normal mode then they complain it’s not fair others get increased rewards or incentives to play on a harder difficulty. You can’t win with this player base.
As much I like eso the community will shoot itself in the foot before they accept change even if it’s a good one. Notice how zos never actually push boundaries with any update sure the content is new but it’s meh. It’s because of the outrage and backlash they would receive. How dare they add something new to our perfect game. You can’t win man the community will destroy what’s left of this game as most of the people I play and played with have no intentions of coming back do to it just being boring and stagnant most of us are just waiting for the next mmo that’s actually good. ESO has had 10 years to be good ever update is just meh.
It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
Sounds good in theory, but someone who has "met endgame conditions" will never be able to shed muscle memory and game skill knowledge. Yes, they can start over on a new account - but they're still going to know exactly how to kill pretty much everything as easily and quickly as possible....
RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
Sounds good in theory, but someone who has "met endgame conditions" will never be able to shed muscle memory and game skill knowledge. Yes, they can start over on a new account - but they're still going to know exactly how to kill pretty much everything as easily and quickly as possible....
Yeah its basically the same as not slotting cp when leveling a new character. Slightly harder, but not that difficult.
If they're so against making overland optionally more difficult for those that want it, they need to find a different method to make it more engaging. The story isn't enough for the group of people that think the overland combat is too easy.
RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
Sounds good in theory, but someone who has "met endgame conditions" will never be able to shed muscle memory and game skill knowledge. Yes, they can start over on a new account - but they're still going to know exactly how to kill pretty much everything as easily and quickly as possible....
Yeah its basically the same as not slotting cp when leveling a new character. Slightly harder, but not that difficult.
If they're so against making overland optionally more difficult for those that want it, they need to find a different method to make it more engaging. The story isn't enough for the group of people that think the overland combat is too easy.
Let me say this another way:
Some people don't realise that they have finished the game. The rest of us might not have.
New chapters are for the finishers. But as some of these folk play on PTS first, then again, they will already know what to do.
Earning skill points the first time around is a long haul.
Earning 1600CP (about the minimum) is also a long haul when you don't already have them.
One way that ZOS made Deshaan harder was to inhibit players standing on nearby rocks to solo world bosses.
That may work for PVP Superheroes, but not for the rest of us.
Maybe ZOS will delete your CP whenever you delete your last character. Last time I used my previous account, you just had to get to level 50 and bingo! 1500+ CP available to make overland easy for you.
So be careful what you wish for.
Anything that is fun, on a long enough timeline, becomes boring. That's not an excuse to never improve what we have.FlopsyPrince wrote: »Once every 6 mths or so, I come back to check this thread to see if I should resub to ESO (I'm in the camp that finds the overland combat mind numbingly boring and easy). I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but just want to point that out to any ESO devs that read this. I'm continuing GW2 and New World for now, the latter has significant problems but I find the combat difficulty just right. GW2 has elite and vet mobs overland.
I know ESO has harder content but the scaling is off. Either content is super easy solo, or it's impossible solo (mostly, I know some good players and meta builds can do it).
I do that too! I look for this Thread to see if they fixed the mindnumbingly easy Overlandcontent.
But I dont even see a plan. Am I missing something?
My bet is that any overland difficulty increase would also get boring once you mastered that as well.
The other games you are playing are likely different enough for now, but will they remain compelling for the long term either? I doubt it. Perhaps I am wrong though. Time will tell.
I think most people here want something optional, and of course there will be some people who disagree with the changes for whatever reason, but if ZOS runs it in a PTS and demonstrates that it's not of any significant impact to those who don't want to use it then I doubt there would be any long-term negativity. We have had detractors in this thread who simply say "I don't want this, it's a bad idea" and the ones I've interacted with have either stopped arguing or changed their minds. I expect that with a proper implementation, others who hold those sentiments will do so as well.FlopsyPrince wrote: »And note that any suggested change will get vocal defenders of the way it is. It is not just those who don't want to cringe when trying to travel overland. That is the way it has been on the Internet for years and it is the same here. Note that this is just noting human trends, not discussing anyone specific here.
One may exist, but I can't remember any suggested change that I have made that has not gotten at least one or more to say not to make it for some valid reason, or for no reason at all, just saying "it is fine as it is".