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Overland Content Feedback Thread
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disky✭✭✭✭✭TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »Rich as already said no though so this thread should be closed honestly since they no longer have interest in this.
I feel like the fact that the thread remains open is exactly why we should keep hammering. It may be that they simply want a place for people to go and rant in order to keep us out of General, but at the same time, it's the largest thread on the forum if I'm not mistaken. That has to count for something. And there are plenty of good ideas with reasonable discussion as well. If someone from ZOS actually reads this thread, who knows? It might actually make a difference.
The playerbase is the major problem with how vocal they are about not wanting this system. People don’t want hard content they want to be able to 1-3 tap everything and it be dead that way they can complete the zone and be done with it. But even if they get to keep their normal mode then they complain it’s not fair others get increased rewards or incentives to play on a harder difficulty. You can’t win with this player base.
As much I like eso the community will shoot itself in the foot before they accept change even if it’s a good one. Notice how zos never actually push boundaries with any update sure the content is new but it’s meh. It’s because of the outrage and backlash they would receive. How dare they add something new to our perfect game. You can’t win man the community will destroy what’s left of this game as most of the people I play and played with have no intentions of coming back do to it just being boring and stagnant most of us are just waiting for the next mmo that’s actually good. ESO has had 10 years to be good ever update is just meh.
No offense, but if you feel that way, why are you here?
I personally feel like it's possible to change minds with enough determination. We've done that with some of the detractors in this thread, and my hope is that we can show ZOS that it's worthwhile to listen to us by putting enough energy into the discussion. I may be wrong but I still love the game and I know it can be better, so I'm here.2 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you don't think this would be fun, okay, that's your opinion, but respectfully it sounds like you're not interested in seeing this feature implemented anyway.
What I think is that the devs know what you and others suggest it won't deliver what people expect from it and that they're not going to build it just to prove that point.
And if I had to guess about what it is that makes it problematic, it is this:
The current situation is that you can pick content on a 'just right' basis in terms of difficulty. With 'mastery' you can slowly unlock harder content through practice. That 'just right' window is actually a pretty narrow one separating 'a boring grind' from 'insurmountably hard'. It would be the job of your slider to put you into that window.
The obvious problem with a simple linear scaling of player stats is that it does not account for difficulty variations that result from encounter design. One setting isn't going to reliably keep you in the 'just right' window.
I'm going to assume the devs won't want to introduce a slider that requires the player to adjust it from encounter to encounter as they move through overland, often getting just wrong.
So I suspect that is the actual problem a request for a difficulty slider entails.
But of course I do not know for sure. I know they have chose a different route (master content with increasing difficulty) instead and I'm not going to assume that was just a whim.
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!0 -
tonyblack✭✭✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7897421/#Comment_7897421
from April 2023 - IIRC that's the last time any staff member addressed this.
And the thing about this quote that drives me up the wall is that Cadwell's Silver and Gold, just like Infinite Archive or Dungeons or Trials, didn't solve the underlying problem. And it's not a surprise that nobody played it because for a lot of people it was just repeating old content. I'm just so baffled over why they continually put forth so much effort in creating alternative content for people who want a challenge when they could just put that same effort into a system that would help players experience the overland game in a way that suits their skill level.
It's not an insurmountable problem. They could do it without alienating their casual audience, but for whatever reason after years of ideas put forth by the community and I assume, their own designers, they either refuse to solve the problem or just can't figure it out.
I’m all for vet overland but infinite archive was one of the best content they released over the years, offering tons of replay value, challenging gameplay and unique rewards. Cutting boring zone dlc in favor of archive and this year pvp update is the step in the right direction. It’s absolutely far more entertaining than some half cooked debuff with nothing special about it other than selfnerfing yourself for no benefits whatsoever. If this thread would ever be addressed I really hope it would be separate vet instances with unique achievements and rewards. Endless archive clearly shows that it’s possible to scale the same mobs differently on top of random encounters (marauders) and extra mechanics.4 -
tonyblack✭✭✭✭✭TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »Rich as already said no though so this thread should be closed honestly since they no longer have interest in this.
I feel like the fact that the thread remains open is exactly why we should keep hammering. It may be that they simply want a place for people to go and rant in order to keep us out of General, but at the same time, it's the largest thread on the forum if I'm not mistaken. That has to count for something. And there are plenty of good ideas with reasonable discussion as well. If someone from ZOS actually reads this thread, who knows? It might actually make a difference.
The playerbase is the major problem with how vocal they are about not wanting this system. People don’t want hard content they want to be able to 1-3 tap everything and it be dead that way they can complete the zone and be done with it. But even if they get to keep their normal mode then they complain it’s not fair others get increased rewards or incentives to play on a harder difficulty. You can’t win with this player base.
As much I like eso the community will shoot itself in the foot before they accept change even if it’s a good one. Notice how zos never actually push boundaries with any update sure the content is new but it’s meh. It’s because of the outrage and backlash they would receive. How dare they add something new to our perfect game. You can’t win man the community will destroy what’s left of this game as most of the people I play and played with have no intentions of coming back do to it just being boring and stagnant most of us are just waiting for the next mmo that’s actually good. ESO has had 10 years to be good ever update is just meh.
It’s not the playbase overall, just a few very vocal individuals who whine about everything the moment something isn’t handed to them instantly with no effort and challenge. Same posters who hard opposed any changes there was also criticizing pvp event, infinite archive and tons of other stuff, which average players would just enjoy or ignore. Overtime it’s just really hard to take their opinion seriously as they seem to be incapable of changing their mind, being stuck with the same arguments to excuse own laziness. Those toxic casuals shouldn’t be mistaken for representation of the majority of player base.6 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
I'm going to assume the devs won't want to introduce a slider that requires the player to adjust it from encounter to encounter as they move through overland, often getting just wrong.If you don't think this would be fun, okay, that's your opinion, but respectfully it sounds like you're not interested in seeing this feature implemented anyway.
So I suspect that is the actual problem a request for a difficulty slider entails.
But of course I do not know for sure. I know they have chose a different route (master content with increasing difficulty) instead and I'm not going to assume that was just a whim.
I don't care if it's a slider or some other way of handling it, honestly. I'm not sure if you're aware of how LotRO handles it, but they have a pretty decent diegetic system which could be improved upon in ESO, in my opinion. However ZOS wants to handle it is fine by me; I have faith that they can make it work. They just seem reluctant to do it because they're afraid of alienating casual players.
The idea of "master content" may work for some people, but ESO is based on The Elder Scrolls franchise, the focus of which has always been exploration and adventure, not repeating the same content over and over. I'm sure ZOS understands this. MMOs are a different breed but ZOS is so close to serving everyone that same core experience and they just need to be brave enough to take the steps to do it.3 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7897421/#Comment_7897421
from April 2023 - IIRC that's the last time any staff member addressed this.
And the thing about this quote that drives me up the wall is that Cadwell's Silver and Gold, just like Infinite Archive or Dungeons or Trials, didn't solve the underlying problem. And it's not a surprise that nobody played it because for a lot of people it was just repeating old content. I'm just so baffled over why they continually put forth so much effort in creating alternative content for people who want a challenge when they could just put that same effort into a system that would help players experience the overland game in a way that suits their skill level.
It's not an insurmountable problem. They could do it without alienating their casual audience, but for whatever reason after years of ideas put forth by the community and I assume, their own designers, they either refuse to solve the problem or just can't figure it out.
I’m all for vet overland but infinite archive was one of the best content they released over the years, offering tons of replay value, challenging gameplay and unique rewards. Cutting boring zone dlc in favor of archive and this year pvp update is the step in the right direction. It’s absolutely far more entertaining than some half cooked debuff with nothing special about it other than selfnerfing yourself for no benefits whatsoever. If this thread would ever be addressed I really hope it would be separate vet instances with unique achievements and rewards. Endless archive clearly shows that it’s possible to scale the same mobs differently on top of random encounters (marauders) and extra mechanics.
Infinite Archive is a fine diversion, but just like dungeons, it's repetitive content which doesn't serve the purpose of other Elder Scrolls games, and it's not as if ZOS is incapable of doing this as well as anything else. They just clearly don't want to, based on the information provided from their leadership. My hope is that we can convince them otherwise.2 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭The idea of "master content" may work for some people, but ESO is based on The Elder Scrolls franchise, the focus of which has always been exploration and adventure, not repeating the same content over and over.
For what it's worth, I agree with this. We can literally race everywhere on horseback without ever having to worry about who or what is in our way, with the exceptions of cliffs and lava. Same with all the delves you can go in without having to pay much attention to your surroundings.
I don't think it's just casuals ZoS has to consider here. If the forum is anything to go by, these days there's a lot of players who actually don't even like playing the game. They just want to get ...... stuff .... as fast as possible. Imagine getting held up by an unexpected encounter while you're rushing to your 60th dolmen of the day! How annoying .....
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!5 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭The idea of "master content" may work for some people, but ESO is based on The Elder Scrolls franchise, the focus of which has always been exploration and adventure, not repeating the same content over and over.
For what it's worth, I agree with this. We can literally race everywhere on horseback without ever having to worry about who or what is in our way, with the exceptions of cliffs and lava. Same with all the delves you can go in without having to pay much attention to your surroundings.
I don't think it's just casuals ZoS has to consider here. If the forum is anything to go by, these days there's a lot of players who actually don't even like playing the game. They just want to get ...... stuff .... as fast as possible. Imagine getting held up by an unexpected encounter while you're rushing to your 60th dolmen of the day! How annoying .....
I would consider collectors to be casual players for the most part as well. If ZOS builds the system in a way which doesn't interfere with collectors' ability to play the game the way they've always enjoyed it, then what's the problem? All any kind of challenge feature would do is serve the people who have been asking for it for years.3 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭Year 5 of waiting for more engaging overland since I first posted about it on the forums in some random post from 2019Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
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Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.4 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭allowing peope to incrase diffictuly for increased rewards , gold, mats, traits, etc is a good idea. and will keep zones fresh too.
the scribing and antiquities system , was a good idea in it gave us a reason to revisit old content3 -
Aliniel✭✭✭✭Funny. We're getting even more powerful in the next chapter without any balancing to the overland content. Now the bosses will die in 1s instead of 2s. Hurray!5 -
RafilondonSoul ShrivenI know it gets repeated, and it will be brought up until something gets changed. It's not the players fault for pointing out game flaws. We all want ESO to be better.
There is no point in trying out new skills, upgrade your gear or try different play styles when the "main" game is locked in "easy peasy" mode.
The game's story and world suffers the most from it. Enough people have mentioned how anti climatic it is, to hear stories about a dangerous monster, then end up killing it in one go, while not even trying and looking on a different monitor. Because when it finally came to the fighting, you got bored. There is no weight to the quests or the world around you, it won't challenge you. And that's the biggest gripe I and a lot of other people, who quit or didn't touch the game, have with it.
There is a lot of monetisation, and dlc locked areas and dungeons, and I have no problem with that, if the main gameplay experience was fun and engaging. Hell, I would love to pay for more if I enjoyed the main piece. But it seems like people get trapped to pay up only to have something new to do, some new shiny armor, furniture order dungeon. Collecting stuff, using the markets, building your home, doing repeatable dungeons is all great but what about the "main game experience"?
Well, It's time to care about the gameplay experience. Nobody wants to play for hundred of hours (or rush through it in less), to finally end up playing "repeatable dungeons and trials" and collect sets for the rest of the game. Since you have made this big and exciting world full of quests, interesting encounters and good looking enemies. Why not make the biggest part of the game enjoyable first? You know how it's supposed to be, a journey? And even with all the good dialogue and interesting areas, there is no journey, there's no adventure, without some challenge to go with it.
It's like eating a extremely delicious and well made steak. But instead of slowly enjoying it and TASTING it piece by piece, you have to put it all in your mouth and swallow it in one go. Now what was the putting all the different flavors in it for hours, if you can't taste them? That's the game's questing for you in a nutshell. A lot of talk from the chef, but you won't be able to taste it, because it's over after 2 hits and an a moan.
Now it gets even worse if you decided to play with a friend, since there is no scaling for groups.
In the main game there is no real point in experimenting with play styles, skills and gear. All that is meaningless and only for superficial satisfaction, because the game is already so washed out easy. It's so easy in fact, that you will get beaten so hard in vet and dlc dungeons, that you will think the game is broken (then proceed to get carried by experienced players and be useless in dungeons, until you finally learn the game). Because the main game, the main experience, with its toddler difficulty level, did not prepare you, did not teach you for these challenging experiences, because it never gave you any incentive to do so. That's more than a (outdated) game philosophy, based around toning down the base game challenge, so more people pay for cosmetics in the end, no, that's a critical game design flaw.
I think ESO could be so much more successful and be crowned the best MMORPG in the space, if they finally tackled this. Because despite all of this, the game does have the incredible TES lore and world behind it.
Simplified solution: Add group members and friendlies to the enemy scaling and make the base difficulty at least challenging. It does not have to be hardcore, like going from a 1 to a 5-7 for most, would make the game so much more enjoyable.
You can add a "casual instance toggle" for those who want to stay in easy mode, so everyone can be happy.
And no. Telling people to make the game artificial harder by running around with no gear or using no skills is not a solution, might as well not play game at all if you have to self sabotage to enjoy main game combat.
Coming up with extremes like, "I don't wanna get killed by a bear when farming". Maybe if the devs put a bear somewhere, there's a point to it. Bears can be dangerous if you don't pay any attention. I think some people miss the point and only want to collect shiny items. Well maybe they would feel more earned and rewarding, even more fun, if there was some challenge behind it and not only endless mind numbing grind?Edited by Rafilondon on 16 April 2024 17:108 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't play games for challenge. I play games for fun. Challenge isn't fun - real life challenge is quite enough for me. Which is why I hope they manage to find an optional way for YOU to have fun, without me losing MY fun.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....6 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Players simply race past everything going from point A to point B. It happens All the time currently and no amount of changing things around will change it.
That is why people want harder overland; Current overland is kind of boring running simulator.
But no worries, it will stay the same boring running simulator - developers do not give a heck about this thread it seems.
completely disagree
No One is Looking for Harder Overland - which counts for Nothing - just for the sake of more combat.
Would not comment about point A and B stuff as it highly depends on a player at questions but more combat isn't exactly it, more like more meaningful encounters that are challenging enough to bring up specific emotional response, showcase it's moveset (which is garbage currently, sorry) and fit the narrative for example, there are different reasons for different people obviously.
I'm not surprised this is even more demanded nowadays, not because ESO becomes more and more casual from endgame player standpoint, but because the gaming climate overall. A lot of people are sick and tired of handholding and easy modes, hence games like Elden Ring are able to get "game of the year" 's and become a cult instantly, getting a lot broader audience than pretty niche Souls games had. It's not just the difficulty, that's a lot of stuff to unpack making people uncomfortable in current eso environment and it's valid enough.
Then please explain why the vast majority of players I encounter, be it Overland or in a Delve or Public Dungeon are running at blazing speeds past everything. They seem to just want to go from point A to point B, do something specific, then run on to point C. They are Not looking for anything 'challenging' . They simply want to perform the immediate task and get rewarded for it. Every day you can go into a Delve - an enclosed area - and find the players running full speed with a line of NPCs slowly following until the NPC gets too far from it's station.
I completely disagree with what you think the 'Majority' of players want. I think this is what you want, and you are welcome to your opinion. But I see every day the runners avoiding all 'challenges' to get whereever they are going. I have Never seen anyone in any chat complaining that Overland or Delves were 'not challenging enough'.
9 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
Well said, thank you.Rafilondon wrote: »snip
Thank you for acknowledging that your opinion isn't held by everyone and that we can all have something that works for us. I have no doubt that ZOS understands what their casual players want and would find a way to accommodate everyone if they did ever decide to implement an overland challenge feature.I don't play games for challenge. I play games for fun. Challenge isn't fun - real life challenge is quite enough for me. Which is why I hope they manage to find an optional way for YOU to have fun, without me losing MY fun.
I don't think they mentioned "majority" in their statements. Clearly ZOS is doing well with their current model - well enough to ignore the pleas of people begging for challenging overland for years. It's not about what the majority wants, but I know that a number of my friends have left the game due to lack of interest citing too-easy content, and content creators like Old Salty Sean have done the same. It's not as if this opinion is held by a vanishingly small number of people, and the demand is clear, even if the interest is not held by a majority. This opinion ignores the fact that people who don't like what the game has to offer them often leave, and so they aren't here to provide their input.barney2525 wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Players simply race past everything going from point A to point B. It happens All the time currently and no amount of changing things around will change it.
That is why people want harder overland; Current overland is kind of boring running simulator.
But no worries, it will stay the same boring running simulator - developers do not give a heck about this thread it seems.
completely disagree
No One is Looking for Harder Overland - which counts for Nothing - just for the sake of more combat.
Would not comment about point A and B stuff as it highly depends on a player at questions but more combat isn't exactly it, more like more meaningful encounters that are challenging enough to bring up specific emotional response, showcase it's moveset (which is garbage currently, sorry) and fit the narrative for example, there are different reasons for different people obviously.
I'm not surprised this is even more demanded nowadays, not because ESO becomes more and more casual from endgame player standpoint, but because the gaming climate overall. A lot of people are sick and tired of handholding and easy modes, hence games like Elden Ring are able to get "game of the year" 's and become a cult instantly, getting a lot broader audience than pretty niche Souls games had. It's not just the difficulty, that's a lot of stuff to unpack making people uncomfortable in current eso environment and it's valid enough.
I completely disagree with what you think the 'Majority' of players want. I think this is what you want, and you are welcome to your opinion. But I see every day the runners avoiding all 'challenges' to get whereever they are going. I have Never seen anyone in any chat complaining that Overland or Delves were 'not challenging enough'.
Many players race through content because they can, and I don't think we should be telling them that they're wrong. It's just that there are also people who love this game that are waiting for a reason to play it and I think that ZOS can serve those people without too much difficulty if they choose to.Edited by disky on 17 April 2024 13:324 -
terrible1fiSoul ShrivenI don't play games for challenge. I play games for fun. Challenge isn't fun - real life challenge is quite enough for me. Which is why I hope they manage to find an optional way for YOU to have fun, without me losing MY fun.
it could be done in this way, its up to ZOS to implement it as a solution. It's already been done in LOTRO, where each individual player can adjust a "difficulty slider" to set it up however they like, all it would need is to be replicated here in ESO. Because while there is a chunk of people like yourself that don't want a challenge, there are countless others who don't play because there isn't enough challenge and it becomes so boring that they quit4 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭From what I've just read about the LOTRO 'landscape difficulty' system it is not just a player-side thing. The first player to score a hit on a mob/boss sets its difficulty. The potential for griefing and exploits seems quite substantial.Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭From what I've just read about the LOTRO 'landscape difficulty' system it is not just a player-side thing. The first player to score a hit on a mob/boss sets its difficulty. The potential for griefing and exploits seems quite substantial.
I read the exact opposite. Apart from some special attacks people can easily handle without the slider, the slider is mostly personal. I saw multiple people discuss how happy they were they could quest with someone else that didn't have it on. There was some that apparently used it for easier leveling as the "harder" mob was worth more exp but I don't see an issue with that. So they'd have a someone higher than them attack first and then kill it together.
But I don't play that game so I'm basing it on secondhand accounts. Doesn't sound like much griefing though.
Edited by spartaxoxo on 18 April 2024 23:241 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »But I don't play that game so I'm basing it on secondhand accounts. Doesn't sound like much griefing though.
Same here. Such an obvious question: "what happens if people with different difficulty tiers engage the same enemy". Apart from some (contradictory) comments on forums or reddit I can't find a thing.Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »But I don't play that game so I'm basing it on secondhand accounts. Doesn't sound like much griefing though.
Same here. Such an obvious question: "what happens if people with different difficulty tiers engage the same enemy". Apart from some (contradictory) comments on forums or reddit I can't find a thing.
Well a developer stated they cheated by just making the players take increased damage, so I'm not sure how that would result in griefing. I actually haven't seen any posts that discussed it griefing. Not saying it can't happen or you didn't (I believe you). I don't play that game, just that I haven't personally seen such posts from anyone saying they were griefed. I imagine if there was substantial potential for griefing, then it would be happening, and complaints would be easy to come by.
Instead I have seen nearly universal praise, except for a few complaints about exp. Some people being mad that different players are being aided in leveling up. And others mildly annoyed they can't nerf their own exp because they don't want to over level. Neither complaint seems particularly relevant to this game.
The power leveling others tells me that it probably doesn't effect other players much at allEdited by spartaxoxo on 19 April 2024 01:072 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Players simply race past everything going from point A to point B. It happens All the time currently and no amount of changing things around will change it.
That is why people want harder overland; Current overland is kind of boring running simulator.
But no worries, it will stay the same boring running simulator - developers do not give a heck about this thread it seems.
completely disagree
No One is Looking for Harder Overland - which counts for Nothing - just for the sake of more combat.
Would not comment about point A and B stuff as it highly depends on a player at questions but more combat isn't exactly it, more like more meaningful encounters that are challenging enough to bring up specific emotional response, showcase it's moveset (which is garbage currently, sorry) and fit the narrative for example, there are different reasons for different people obviously.
I'm not surprised this is even more demanded nowadays, not because ESO becomes more and more casual from endgame player standpoint, but because the gaming climate overall. A lot of people are sick and tired of handholding and easy modes, hence games like Elden Ring are able to get "game of the year" 's and become a cult instantly, getting a lot broader audience than pretty niche Souls games had. It's not just the difficulty, that's a lot of stuff to unpack making people uncomfortable in current eso environment and it's valid enough.
Then please explain why the vast majority of players I encounter, be it Overland or in a Delve or Public Dungeon are running at blazing speeds past everything. They seem to just want to go from point A to point B, do something specific, then run on to point C. They are Not looking for anything 'challenging' . They simply want to perform the immediate task and get rewarded for it. Every day you can go into a Delve - an enclosed area - and find the players running full speed with a line of NPCs slowly following until the NPC gets too far from it's station.
I completely disagree with what you think the 'Majority' of players want. I think this is what you want, and you are welcome to your opinion. But I see every day the runners avoiding all 'challenges' to get whereever they are going. I have Never seen anyone in any chat complaining that Overland or Delves were 'not challenging enough'.
My message you quoted is an explanation - there's nothing worth stopping by there. They're indeed not looking for a challenge there, because they know there's no challenge to find, it just a run simulator at best. And that's an issue imo.
And I've never mentioned any majorities or minorities there as far as I remember, but is there large enough amount of people who want a challenge in their games? Absolutely, it's not even a question, that's why a lot of us play such games. Same as there's huge amount of people who don't want any of it.
Anecdote about "Never seen anyone in any chat", two last times I've logged on my NA account for a ticket I've arrived at the same convo in Stonefalls - ESO is boring, it's not challenging. If you're not encountered it doesn't mean it's not appearing anywhere lol. (Still strange place to complain about it, forums are a lot better place if you want a change anytime)4 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Once every 6 mths or so, I come back to check this thread to see if I should resub to ESO (I'm in the camp that finds the overland combat mind numbingly boring and easy). I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but just want to point that out to any ESO devs that read this. I'm continuing GW2 and New World for now, the latter has significant problems but I find the combat difficulty just right. GW2 has elite and vet mobs overland.
I know ESO has harder content but the scaling is off. Either content is super easy solo, or it's impossible solo (mostly, I know some good players and meta builds can do it).
I do that too! I look for this Thread to see if they fixed the mindnumbingly easy Overlandcontent.
But I dont even see a plan. Am I missing something?
My bet is that any overland difficulty increase would also get boring once you mastered that as well.
The other games you are playing are likely different enough for now, but will they remain compelling for the long term either? I doubt it. Perhaps I am wrong though. Time will tell.PC
PS4/PS52 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »TheMessengerOfDeath wrote: »Rich as already said no though so this thread should be closed honestly since they no longer have interest in this.
I feel like the fact that the thread remains open is exactly why we should keep hammering. It may be that they simply want a place for people to go and rant in order to keep us out of General, but at the same time, it's the largest thread on the forum if I'm not mistaken. That has to count for something. And there are plenty of good ideas with reasonable discussion as well. If someone from ZOS actually reads this thread, who knows? It might actually make a difference.
The playerbase is the major problem with how vocal they are about not wanting this system. People don’t want hard content they want to be able to 1-3 tap everything and it be dead that way they can complete the zone and be done with it. But even if they get to keep their normal mode then they complain it’s not fair others get increased rewards or incentives to play on a harder difficulty. You can’t win with this player base.
As much I like eso the community will shoot itself in the foot before they accept change even if it’s a good one. Notice how zos never actually push boundaries with any update sure the content is new but it’s meh. It’s because of the outrage and backlash they would receive. How dare they add something new to our perfect game. You can’t win man the community will destroy what’s left of this game as most of the people I play and played with have no intentions of coming back do to it just being boring and stagnant most of us are just waiting for the next mmo that’s actually good. ESO has had 10 years to be good ever update is just meh.
Some want harder content, some do not. The lack of ongoing participation in some very hard overland content (like Harrowstorms) shows that making it hard is not enough by itself.
That is why I remain skeptical that any level of "harder overland" will ever fully satisfy those who want that. Nothing will remain hard forever or remain compelling. Lets say many things really are upgraded. How long until they are no longer hard anymore? Or at least worth repeating?
And how many of those who enjoy the experience more than combat on the edge will still be around after that?
Keep in mind that it is more than just making things hit harder and have more HP. It would require tuning many things to be truly "hard".
That is why this thread is just an outlet for talk about it and unlikely to spark true change in any direction.
And note that any suggested change will get vocal defenders of the way it is. It is not just those who don't want to cringe when trying to travel overland. That is the way it has been on the Internet for years and it is the same here. Note that this is just noting human trends, not discussing anyone specific here.
One may exist, but I can't remember any suggested change that I have made that has not gotten at least one or more to say not to make it for some valid reason, or for no reason at all, just saying "it is fine as it is".
PC
PS4/PS52 -
Nharimlur_Finor✭✭✭✭✭It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
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TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
Sounds good in theory, but someone who has "met endgame conditions" will never be able to shed muscle memory and game skill knowledge. Yes, they can start over on a new account - but they're still going to know exactly how to kill pretty much everything as easily and quickly as possible....
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"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....8 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
Sounds good in theory, but someone who has "met endgame conditions" will never be able to shed muscle memory and game skill knowledge. Yes, they can start over on a new account - but they're still going to know exactly how to kill pretty much everything as easily and quickly as possible....
Yeah its basically the same as not slotting cp when leveling a new character. Slightly harder, but not that difficult.
If they're so against making overland optionally more difficult for those that want it, they need to find a different method to make it more engaging. The story isn't enough for the group of people that think the overland combat is too easy.Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
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Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
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Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.2 -
Nharimlur_Finor✭✭✭✭✭RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
Sounds good in theory, but someone who has "met endgame conditions" will never be able to shed muscle memory and game skill knowledge. Yes, they can start over on a new account - but they're still going to know exactly how to kill pretty much everything as easily and quickly as possible....
Yeah its basically the same as not slotting cp when leveling a new character. Slightly harder, but not that difficult.
If they're so against making overland optionally more difficult for those that want it, they need to find a different method to make it more engaging. The story isn't enough for the group of people that think the overland combat is too easy.
Let me say this another way:
Some people don't realise that they have finished the game. The rest of us might not have.
New chapters are for the finishers. But as some of these folk play on PTS first, then again, they will already know what to do.
Earning skill points the first time around is a long haul.
Earning 1600CP (about the minimum) is also a long haul when you don't already have them.
One way that ZOS made Deshaan harder was to inhibit players standing on nearby rocks to solo world bosses.
That may work for PVP Superheroes, but not for the rest of us.
Maybe ZOS will delete your CP whenever you delete your last character. Last time I used my previous account, you just had to get to level 50 and bingo! 1500+ CP available to make overland easy for you.
So be careful what you wish for.0 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »It has yet to occur to some people that maybe they have met 'end game' conditions.
Buy a new account and start again. At least then you'll see why not everyone wants (or needs) a harder overland.
Sounds good in theory, but someone who has "met endgame conditions" will never be able to shed muscle memory and game skill knowledge. Yes, they can start over on a new account - but they're still going to know exactly how to kill pretty much everything as easily and quickly as possible....
Yeah its basically the same as not slotting cp when leveling a new character. Slightly harder, but not that difficult.
If they're so against making overland optionally more difficult for those that want it, they need to find a different method to make it more engaging. The story isn't enough for the group of people that think the overland combat is too easy.
Let me say this another way:
Some people don't realise that they have finished the game. The rest of us might not have.
New chapters are for the finishers. But as some of these folk play on PTS first, then again, they will already know what to do.
Earning skill points the first time around is a long haul.
Earning 1600CP (about the minimum) is also a long haul when you don't already have them.
One way that ZOS made Deshaan harder was to inhibit players standing on nearby rocks to solo world bosses.
That may work for PVP Superheroes, but not for the rest of us.
Maybe ZOS will delete your CP whenever you delete your last character. Last time I used my previous account, you just had to get to level 50 and bingo! 1500+ CP available to make overland easy for you.
So be careful what you wish for.
Grinding a new account wouldn't make the game harder for me, it would make it more tedious. I was saying that not using CP during the new character leveling process would still not make it difficult enough to the point of being engaging for me. I know it's not true for everyone, thats just my case.
I personally want to experience the new stories they keep adding, but I'm suggesting they do at least something to increase player engagement, since for me, the story alone isn't enough. Since they refuse to make optional combat difficulties, I hope they think about, and consider, non-combat ways to increase player engagement with their stories. Maybe puzzles or something, I don't know. I just wanna feel like I can get into the stories again tbhAdd a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
---
Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.2 -
Uvi_AUT✭✭✭✭✭Is there any news on harder/dynamic Overlandcontent?
Why do they even waste time with things like Scribing/Balancing etc. when 99% of the content can be done by leftclicking.
This should be Toppriority and should have been done when One Tamriel arrived.....Registered since 2014, Customer Service lost my Forum-Account and can't find it.....5 -
disky✭✭✭✭✭
Anything that is fun, on a long enough timeline, becomes boring. That's not an excuse to never improve what we have.FlopsyPrince wrote: »Once every 6 mths or so, I come back to check this thread to see if I should resub to ESO (I'm in the camp that finds the overland combat mind numbingly boring and easy). I'm not trying to change anyone's mind but just want to point that out to any ESO devs that read this. I'm continuing GW2 and New World for now, the latter has significant problems but I find the combat difficulty just right. GW2 has elite and vet mobs overland.
I know ESO has harder content but the scaling is off. Either content is super easy solo, or it's impossible solo (mostly, I know some good players and meta builds can do it).
I do that too! I look for this Thread to see if they fixed the mindnumbingly easy Overlandcontent.
But I dont even see a plan. Am I missing something?
My bet is that any overland difficulty increase would also get boring once you mastered that as well.
The other games you are playing are likely different enough for now, but will they remain compelling for the long term either? I doubt it. Perhaps I am wrong though. Time will tell.
I think most people here want something optional, and of course there will be some people who disagree with the changes for whatever reason, but if ZOS runs it in a PTS and demonstrates that it's not of any significant impact to those who don't want to use it then I doubt there would be any long-term negativity. We have had detractors in this thread who simply say "I don't want this, it's a bad idea" and the ones I've interacted with have either stopped arguing or changed their minds. I expect that with a proper implementation, others who hold those sentiments will do so as well.FlopsyPrince wrote: »And note that any suggested change will get vocal defenders of the way it is. It is not just those who don't want to cringe when trying to travel overland. That is the way it has been on the Internet for years and it is the same here. Note that this is just noting human trends, not discussing anyone specific here.
One may exist, but I can't remember any suggested change that I have made that has not gotten at least one or more to say not to make it for some valid reason, or for no reason at all, just saying "it is fine as it is".
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