barney2525 wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Players simply race past everything going from point A to point B. It happens All the time currently and no amount of changing things around will change it.
That is why people want harder overland; Current overland is kind of boring running simulator.
But no worries, it will stay the same boring running simulator - developers do not give a heck about this thread it seems.
completely disagree
No One is Looking for Harder Overland - which counts for Nothing - just for the sake of more combat.
Really I feel you should just make scaling versions of the overland content like you do now for levels, but just increase it for the higher CP. Maybe even a choice to have 'Vet' overland and 'Normal' overland. You already have multiple instances of the zones - just configure them so that some of them are 'Vet'. Make the 'Vet' version of the gear bind on pick up/swappable with party members like in dungeons/trials.
That way you do not completely screw people who are just trying to get from one side to another, or who are focused on the story vs the fights.
barney2525 wrote: »The one aspect that you keep leaving out of this discussion is a Real Reason to make it " harder ". What is the Big Benefit to the Player if they stop and fight the mobs? What does the player gain from fighting random mobs?
barney2525 wrote: »The one aspect that you keep leaving out of this discussion is a Real Reason to make it " harder ". What is the Big Benefit to the Player if they stop and fight the mobs? What does the player gain from fighting random mobs?
I don't talk about the material rewards because I don't care about material rewards. The challenge IS the reward. It's what makes me feel like I'm actually participating in a world and achieving something and not just floating over a textured heightmap to crash my collection of numbers against another collection of numbers until my numbers defeat their numbers. Rewards are great, but as we have discussed previously, they could be a flashpoint for negativity from more casual players which may be one of the reasons ZOS is reticent to implement anything close to what we want.
Please don't try to speak for the entire community, we don't all feel the way you do.
Really I feel you should just make scaling versions of the overland content like you do now for levels, but just increase it for the higher CP. Maybe even a choice to have 'Vet' overland and 'Normal' overland. You already have multiple instances of the zones - just configure them so that some of them are 'Vet'. Make the 'Vet' version of the gear bind on pick up/swappable with party members like in dungeons/trials.
That way you do not completely screw people who are just trying to get from one side to another, or who are focused on the story vs the fights.
barney2525 wrote: »The one aspect that you keep leaving out of this discussion is a Real Reason to make it " harder ". What is the Big Benefit to the Player if they stop and fight the mobs? What does the player gain from fighting random mobs?
I don't talk about the material rewards because I don't care about material rewards. The challenge IS the reward. It's what makes me feel like I'm actually participating in a world and achieving something and not just floating over a textured heightmap to crash my collection of numbers against another collection of numbers until my numbers defeat their numbers. Rewards are great, but as we have discussed previously, they could be a flashpoint for negativity from more casual players which may be one of the reasons ZOS is reticent to implement anything close to what we want.
Please don't try to speak for the entire community, we don't all feel the way you do.
Well, you also don't speak for the entire community, y'know.
Elderpatriot wrote: »So may be the regeneration needs to be nerfed as long you are getting hit by attacks (so blocking and evasion will be beneficial to reactivate the regeneration)...or the basic damage should be a bit higher.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »When I play things like IA or vMA, I like that there are telegraphs for dangerous attacks, that some attacks need to be mitigated some way over others (this one needs to be dodge-rolled, this one blocked specifically, this one you have to run away from entirely). I also like how some enemies will block my attacks (but I wish you could bash them out of block rather than just waiting till they drop it), as well as how some will roll-dodge my attacks.
If people are complaining about being able to one-shot overland mobs too much, make the overland mobs do things like block more often, roll-dodge away, perhaps have mages use teleport, etc. Things that have workarounds through stuns, AoE attacks and immobilizations and have them perform more damaging telegraphed attacks (Play rock papper scissors with attacks and defensive maneuvers). Not simply slapping massive damage on auto-tracking light attacks.
Though that still won't fix how unrewarding the XP/item/gold gain feels from overland content.
I'd also love to hold onto those uniquely named armor pieces, but my inventory doesn't allow it.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »When I play things like IA or vMA, I like that there are telegraphs for dangerous attacks, that some attacks need to be mitigated some way over others (this one needs to be dodge-rolled, this one blocked specifically, this one you have to run away from entirely). I also like how some enemies will block my attacks (but I wish you could bash them out of block rather than just waiting till they drop it), as well as how some will roll-dodge my attacks.
If people are complaining about being able to one-shot overland mobs too much, make the overland mobs do things like block more often, roll-dodge away, perhaps have mages use teleport, etc. Things that have workarounds through stuns, AoE attacks and immobilizations and have them perform more damaging telegraphed attacks (Play rock papper scissors with attacks and defensive maneuvers). Not simply slapping massive damage on auto-tracking light attacks.
Though that still won't fix how unrewarding the XP/item/gold gain feels from overland content.
I'd also love to hold onto those uniquely named armor pieces, but my inventory doesn't allow it.
I agree, I'd love to see those mechanics more commonly used by overland monsters...however, two things: any adjustments to behavior will also change the experience for those who don't want change, and even if those behaviors were made more common we'd still steamroll most enemies because their stats are simply too low by comparison. I'd love to see both, but as far as I'm concerned, the greatest blocker to progress is the negative perception from those who want things to remain the way they are. If we can make things work in a way that doesn't affect those players whatsoever then I think it's going to be more likely that the feature will be implemented.
Avran_Sylt wrote: »I think we should still be able to steamroll content.
I just think that when we steamroll it shouldn't boil down to placing down AoE Dots and AoE spam:
Shielded unit holds block and attack from behind their shield until you bash their guard down.
Ranged units try to rolldodge most single target ranged attacks until they're "tripped" by an AoE (or staggered by a Heavy Ranged Attack).
Mages can cast Silence on your location, necessitating you to move if you're a spellcaster, and can cast a teleport that would best be followed by a charge for a melee character.
Rogues can cast invisibility much more often until they get within melee range of a target/can cast gapclosers on faraway targets that slow them.
Stuff where sure, you're still able to steamroll them, but to be efficient it's best to try and match an enemy's general weakness.
I would love to see a couple of sets that are in line with this :
Set Bonuses:
2-Piece: Decreases your Maximum Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 50%.
3-Piece: Summons a random hostile veteran creature to attack you every 20 seconds
4-Piece: Unleashes an area-of-effect attack around you, in a random pattern, every 20 seconds in overland zones, dealing significant damage. This attack cannot be mitigated or blocked.
5-Piece: While in combat in an overland zone, gain a stack of "Pain's Embrace" every 15 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. Each stack reduces your resistances by 15% but decreases your damage done by 15%. Stacks are lost upon leaving combat.
maybe this set can go up to 12 items that a person can wear
something along those lines
Blackbird_V wrote: »Elderpatriot wrote: »So may be the regeneration needs to be nerfed as long you are getting hit by attacks (so blocking and evasion will be beneficial to reactivate the regeneration)...or the basic damage should be a bit higher.
Regen is nerfed when you're in combat. Check Magicka, Stamina and Health Regeneration in character sheet out of combat, then go in combat and look to compare.
Disabling health regen is just a bandaid fix that won't fix another major problem - 1 shotting everything.
I would love to see a couple of sets that are in line with this :
Set Bonuses:
2-Piece: Decreases your Maximum Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 50%.
3-Piece: Summons a random hostile veteran creature to attack you every 20 seconds
4-Piece: Unleashes an area-of-effect attack around you, in a random pattern, every 20 seconds in overland zones, dealing significant damage. This attack cannot be mitigated or blocked.
5-Piece: While in combat in an overland zone, gain a stack of "Pain's Embrace" every 15 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. Each stack reduces your resistances by 15% but decreases your damage done by 15%. Stacks are lost upon leaving combat.
maybe this set can go up to 12 items that a person can wear
something along those lines
Wouldn't you rather be able to use any normal build with an external modifier that makes the game harder? People have suggested things like this more than once and I'm curious about the motivation, because I don't think it's necessary to build debuffs into gear.
I would love to see a couple of sets that are in line with this :
Set Bonuses:
2-Piece: Decreases your Maximum Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 50%.
3-Piece: Summons a random hostile veteran creature to attack you every 20 seconds
4-Piece: Unleashes an area-of-effect attack around you, in a random pattern, every 20 seconds in overland zones, dealing significant damage. This attack cannot be mitigated or blocked.
5-Piece: While in combat in an overland zone, gain a stack of "Pain's Embrace" every 15 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. Each stack reduces your resistances by 15% but decreases your damage done by 15%. Stacks are lost upon leaving combat.
maybe this set can go up to 12 items that a person can wear
something along those lines
Wouldn't you rather be able to use any normal build with an external modifier that makes the game harder? People have suggested things like this more than once and I'm curious about the motivation, because I don't think it's necessary to build debuffs into gear.
The reason is that is seems easy as a solution compared to overhauls
The reason is that is seems easy as a solution compared to overhauls
colossalvoids wrote: »Problem would be that easy solutions aren't popular ones to say the least, so it would not ultimately be a solution for most people.
The reason is that is seems easy as a solution compared to overhaulscolossalvoids wrote: »Problem would be that easy solutions aren't popular ones to say the least, so it would not ultimately be a solution for most people.
The issue is that if challenge is implemented in this way, builds and theorycrafting are diminished or made unavailable to the player depending on how it's done. You're forced to use a deliberately hobbled set because you like a challenge and you're no longer allowed to engage with gear combinations, which is a massive part of how people enjoy the game. Especially for those who are interested in challenging themselves.
Also consider that the gear you wear affects every facet of the game, not just overland, which is all we're discussing here.
The reason is that is seems easy as a solution compared to overhaulscolossalvoids wrote: »Problem would be that easy solutions aren't popular ones to say the least, so it would not ultimately be a solution for most people.
The issue is that if challenge is implemented in this way, builds and theorycrafting are diminished or made unavailable to the player depending on how it's done. You're forced to use a deliberately hobbled set because you like a challenge and you're no longer allowed to engage with gear combinations, which is a massive part of how people enjoy the game. Especially for those who are interested in challenging themselves.
Also consider that the gear you wear affects every facet of the game, not just overland, which is all we're discussing here.
I would be happy with a set like this :
Set Bonuses:
2-Piece: Decreases your Maximum Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 50%.
3-Piece: Summons a random hostile veteran creature to attack you every 20 seconds
4-Piece: Unleashes an area-of-effect attack around you, in a random pattern, every 20 seconds in overland zones, dealing significant damage. This attack cannot be mitigated or blocked.
5-Piece: While in combat in an overland zone, gain a stack of "Pain's Embrace" every 15 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. Each stack reduces your resistances by 15% but decreases your damage done by 15%. Stacks are lost upon leaving combat.
This is a solution, the devs can also add other solution dosent have to be black and white.
What is your solution for this ?
The reason is that is seems easy as a solution compared to overhaulscolossalvoids wrote: »Problem would be that easy solutions aren't popular ones to say the least, so it would not ultimately be a solution for most people.
The issue is that if challenge is implemented in this way, builds and theorycrafting are diminished or made unavailable to the player depending on how it's done. You're forced to use a deliberately hobbled set because you like a challenge and you're no longer allowed to engage with gear combinations, which is a massive part of how people enjoy the game. Especially for those who are interested in challenging themselves.
Also consider that the gear you wear affects every facet of the game, not just overland, which is all we're discussing here.
I would be happy with a set like this :
Set Bonuses:
2-Piece: Decreases your Maximum Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 50%.
3-Piece: Summons a random hostile veteran creature to attack you every 20 seconds
4-Piece: Unleashes an area-of-effect attack around you, in a random pattern, every 20 seconds in overland zones, dealing significant damage. This attack cannot be mitigated or blocked.
5-Piece: While in combat in an overland zone, gain a stack of "Pain's Embrace" every 15 seconds, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. Each stack reduces your resistances by 15% but decreases your damage done by 15%. Stacks are lost upon leaving combat.
This is a solution, the devs can also add other solution dosent have to be black and white.
What is your solution for this ?
Every 20 seconds? There are going to have to be so many exceptions built into that that it wouldn't be feasible. Not in towns, not while talking to quest givers, not while I'm just looking for mats, not while I'm just letting my character chill while gazing upon the verdant hills, not while fishing, etc.
The other set effects are just more complicated ways of the same old strategy, unequipping your gear and unassigning your CP. But plenty of us in this thread have tried that and it doesn't make overland/delve enemies much harder. You're still not at risk of dying or losing a fight. I don't see how this set would change that.
More important, we shouldn't have to opt out of an entire aspect of the game's progression systems, wearing the best gear you have, in order to experience immersive combat during quests and exploration.
I agree with you that the timing would need to be adjusted. Could be all adjustable.
Would not even have to be a set but a bunch of adjustable sliders:
Like the armoury system, this can summon an Daedric Magi that would curse you in some ways like:
Curse Sliders::
1st: Decreases your Maximum Health, Magicka, and Stamina %.
2nd: Summons a random hostile veteran creature to attack you every X seconds
3rd: Unleashes an area-of-effect attack around you, in a random pattern, every x seconds in overland zones, dealing significant damage. This attack cannot be mitigated or blocked.
4th: While in combat in an overland zone, gain a stack of "Pain's Embrace" every X seconds, up to a maximum of X stacks. Each stack reduces your resistances by X% but decreases your damage done by X%. Stacks are lost upon leaving combat.
etc
What is your solution to this issue of overland difficulty ?