RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »Have they mentioned why they're adverse on an optional slider/PvE Battle Spirit? It's clear they don't like the idea because they haven't done anything regarding it. This is too long of a thread to sift through lol.
No, their only comment regarding anything related to challenging/difficult overland was that they have no plans to change it and don't want to split the player base. Well... and that Bastion Nymic is meant as one of their answers to address the matter.
They didn't mention anything regarding a slider as a solution at all.
spartaxoxo wrote: »I honestly feel they don't understand the slider suggestion. The one time they mentioned, they discussed how they didn't want to split the playerbase, which is not what has been requested.
I don't think those wanting more challenging content, are always that serious though, as there's a lot in the game to challenge yourself with optionally, that they do not do, like a few mentioned above.
What they usually want, is harder content that offers unique rewards, to gatekeep others from getting them.
AlterBlika wrote: »There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.
AlterBlika wrote: »I don't like playing a visual novel.
SilverBride wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.
I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.AlterBlika wrote: »I don't like playing a visual novel.
I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.
Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.
SilverBride wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.
I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.AlterBlika wrote: »I don't like playing a visual novel.
I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.
Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.
My suggestion was to have quests in normal mode, where you can walk around and listen to the story (as it already is), and the same quests in veteran mode, where the story shines and gets its true value! I don't think that this is too difficult to achieve, and for sure, this will not affect the other players who want to get through the quests without any challenges.
I really like the stories in this game. If veteran mode for dungeons exists, why not make the quests in veteran mode so I can feel the danger, excitement, and thrill when I am fighting with the NPCs and bosses?
SilverBride wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.
I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.AlterBlika wrote: »I don't like playing a visual novel.
I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.
Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.
My suggestion was to have quests in normal mode, where you can walk around and listen to the story (as it already is), and the same quests in veteran mode, where the story shines and gets its true value! I don't think that this is too difficult to achieve, and for sure, this will not affect the other players who want to get through the quests without any challenges.I really like the stories in this game. If veteran mode for dungeons exists, why not make the quests in veteran mode so I can feel the danger, excitement, and thrill when I am fighting with the NPCs and bosses?
dungeons are separate instances that only people in your group can join you in.
quests are in zones anyone can be in, very few quests are in completely separate instances.
the few that are could be veteran sure.
but you're probably not just referring to those parts of quests, right?
for most people the story already shines and already gets its true value.
and how would you have veteran mode for quests without a separate veteran version of the zone?
a veteran mode of zones would split the playerbase as that would be a completely separate instance.
optional sure, but it would make finding help with overland activities like world bosses or dragons way harder.
a debuff slider is a good way to make overland more challenging without splitting the playerbase.
SilverBride wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun.
I find it a lot of fun to feel like the strong hero they say I am.AlterBlika wrote: »I don't like playing a visual novel.
I enjoy a stress free walk through the story. When I want a challenge I know where to find it.
Overland is the only part of this game that isn't tailored to be a challenge. There are normal and veteran dungeons and trials, and the last 2 new features, Bastion Nymics and the Endless Archive, are challenging. Our last and only relaxing content should be left alone.
My suggestion was to have quests in normal mode, where you can walk around and listen to the story (as it already is), and the same quests in veteran mode, where the story shines and gets its true value! I don't think that this is too difficult to achieve, and for sure, this will not affect the other players who want to get through the quests without any challenges.I really like the stories in this game. If veteran mode for dungeons exists, why not make the quests in veteran mode so I can feel the danger, excitement, and thrill when I am fighting with the NPCs and bosses?
dungeons are separate instances that only people in your group can join you in.
quests are in zones anyone can be in, very few quests are in completely separate instances.
the few that are could be veteran sure.
but you're probably not just referring to those parts of quests, right?
for most people the story already shines and already gets its true value.
and how would you have veteran mode for quests without a separate veteran version of the zone?
a veteran mode of zones would split the playerbase as that would be a completely separate instance.
optional sure, but it would make finding help with overland activities like world bosses or dragons way harder.
a debuff slider is a good way to make overland more challenging without splitting the playerbase.
A solution is to have an option when starting the quest, "normal mode" or "veteran mode", and in veteran mode, the NPCs and bosses to be hard to kill. For me, a story where you kill the last boss in three seconds is boring, the story loses its charm, it's stupid, it's like... "That's all??"
Cooperharley wrote: »You get this feeling that you're "powerful" sure, but there's never a feeling of struggle, no fear, no accomplishment when you kill the big bad.
AlterBlika wrote: »I don't think those wanting more challenging content, are always that serious though, as there's a lot in the game to challenge yourself with optionally, that they do not do, like a few mentioned above.
What they usually want, is harder content that offers unique rewards, to gatekeep others from getting them.
Yes, there's plenty of challenging content already. The thing is, we don't want overland to be difficult just because of it. There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun. I don't like playing a visual novel. I could only possibly enjoy these activies if I went there almost naked
SilverBride wrote: »Cooperharley wrote: »You get this feeling that you're "powerful" sure, but there's never a feeling of struggle, no fear, no accomplishment when you kill the big bad.
I feel powerful because I can easily deal with these bad guys that the NPCs have come to me for help with. And I do feel a sense of accomplishment for doing so.
I will never understand how struggling is enjoyable for some.
ImmortalCX wrote: »AlterBlika wrote: »I don't think those wanting more challenging content, are always that serious though, as there's a lot in the game to challenge yourself with optionally, that they do not do, like a few mentioned above.
What they usually want, is harder content that offers unique rewards, to gatekeep others from getting them.
Yes, there's plenty of challenging content already. The thing is, we don't want overland to be difficult just because of it. There's content such as quests, delves, public dungeons, etc - which just aren't worth doing when they're so easy. It's unengaging, not fun. I don't like playing a visual novel. I could only possibly enjoy these activies if I went there almost naked
This has nothing to do with gatekeeping. Its about replay value, for me.
If I'm leveling up a new character, I want that feeling of being weak and building up my strength. Being able to go new places that I couldn't before.
The system wouldn't have to be linear and hard gating. There would still be plenty to do in beginner zones, or mid-level zones. Or, if they want to go to the harder zones, they would need to maintain the buff by resting frequently so the world stays leveled. But every once in a while, a low level character would get the feeling, "I probably shouldn't be here."
colossalvoids wrote: »When something minor as EA is not inclusive enough it's fine, as it's suited for a certain audience who enjoys certain style of play (arenas to be exact) but when major chunk of released content, the main attraction is plain boring for a lot of folks it's not really a fine situation that can be just left alone and not being spoken about.
spartaxoxo wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When something minor as EA is not inclusive enough it's fine, as it's suited for a certain audience who enjoys certain style of play (arenas to be exact) but when major chunk of released content, the main attraction is plain boring for a lot of folks it's not really a fine situation that can be just left alone and not being spoken about.
Endless Archive is a major chunk of content. It is not minor at all. It was deemed a large enough deal to kill the release of not 1 but 2 dlc. This includes an entire story zone.
Whether questing or the entire rest of the game is major is a matter of preference, tbh. There are more quests numerically, but they are one and done content. They take up only a few hours. Meanwhile, end game content is generally meant to be repeated. So it takes up a lot more time.
I spend much more of time in repeatable content than questing, tbh, at least in terms of real gameplay.
colossalvoids wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »colossalvoids wrote: »When something minor as EA is not inclusive enough it's fine, as it's suited for a certain audience who enjoys certain style of play (arenas to be exact) but when major chunk of released content, the main attraction is plain boring for a lot of folks it's not really a fine situation that can be just left alone and not being spoken about.
Endless Archive is a major chunk of content. It is not minor at all. It was deemed a large enough deal to kill the release of not 1 but 2 dlc. This includes an entire story zone.
Whether questing or the entire rest of the game is major is a matter of preference, tbh. There are more quests numerically, but they are one and done content. They take up only a few hours. Meanwhile, end game content is generally meant to be repeated. So it takes up a lot more time.
I spend much more of time in repeatable content than questing, tbh, at least in terms of real gameplay.
Surely it's a perception thing, to someone BRP was a major chunk of content compared to Murkmire, or dungeons compared to Overland zones, but I'd doubt many operate from the same point of view, being an elder scrolls game. Might be wrong though. To me whole Overland or even one chapter zone is way significant thing compared to EA, which is an extended arena with little to no lore for me personally. And it's surely not up the scale of any previous release, hence the base game implementation.
As far as I'm aware nothing was "killed" for it, content is planned years ahead and we have no mines of what potentially was killed off. We also have no idea why other teams weren't involved much this year apart from the chapter release and will be able to guess at the very least after next jubilee year of ESO, which might be the reason by itself.
Now that we have hundreds and hundreds (and hundreds!) of hours of questing content, enough for four or five regular RPGs, we are hearing from our new players that the sheer number of zones and stories and characters is intimidating. And, on the other hand, our veteran players consistently tell us that they would like more content that isn't played through just once—they would like more content they can enjoy for years; content that utilizes our already existing zones to add new things to do, and most importantly, introduces some new gameplay.
So, below is the 2023 content cadence. Please note that the first half of the year remains essentially unchanged, but the second half of the year now has an update devoted to addressing issues/quality of life improvements and an update devoted to a large new tentpole system.
Looking back at ESO's evolution since 2014, you can see that we often shake things up, try new things, and make changes as needed. So, we will assess how this new cadence is received—both by the development team and in the community. If we have to make more adjustments, we will.
colossalvoids wrote: »Anyways it doesn't help people asking for something to be done in overland zones, as the "main" experience isn't altered in any way.
spartaxoxo wrote: »[
Also Endless Archive isn't the only time this will happen. For an undetermined amount of time, story dlc will no longer be a thing. Instead, we'll get large tent pole systems. So, expect another large system next year as well.
(...)
Endless Archive is the first major system under this new content goal.
spartaxoxo wrote: »[
Also Endless Archive isn't the only time this will happen. For an undetermined amount of time, story dlc will no longer be a thing. Instead, we'll get large tent pole systems. So, expect another large system next year as well.
(...)
Endless Archive is the first major system under this new content goal.
But this Endless Archive isn't a system at all, even less a "large tent pole system". It is just yet another absolutely horrible arena. There is nothing "major" about it either. Apart from it being a major pain, perhaps.
I guess I have to live with all new content apart from the new area quests not being made for me. I know I wrote this earlier, but the miserable archive experience actually brought me close to actually uninstalling this piece of software. I guess it could be somewhat tolerable if all my friends hadn't been drive off by all the bad decisions taken in the last two or three years.
spartaxoxo wrote: »[
Also Endless Archive isn't the only time this will happen. For an undetermined amount of time, story dlc will no longer be a thing. Instead, we'll get large tent pole systems. So, expect another large system next year as well.
(...)
Endless Archive is the first major system under this new content goal.
But this Endless Archive isn't a system at all, even less a "large tent pole system". It is just yet another absolutely horrible arena. There is nothing "major" about it either. Apart from it being a major pain, perhaps.
I guess I have to live with all new content apart from the new area quests not being made for me. I know I wrote this earlier, but the miserable archive experience actually brought me close to actually uninstalling this piece of software. I guess it could be somewhat tolerable if all my friends hadn't been drive off by all the bad decisions taken in the last two or three years.
That's why it's especially baffling to see some of the biggest opponents of any changes to overland difficulty demanding nerfs for EA, which was specifically made as challenging content for all those unsatisfied with overland.
spartaxoxo wrote: »That's why it's especially baffling to see some of the biggest opponents of any changes to overland difficulty demanding nerfs for EA, which was specifically made as challenging content for all those unsatisfied with overland.
Most everyone agrees that something should be done to make the game more enjoyable for vet players (which they are not), and they also want the early arcs for their own enjoyment.
Wanting both changed is pretty consistent philosophy in terms of inclusion.
It's like there's more than one way to cook an egg. Hating omelets is not the same thing as refusing to cook eggs. You can poach them, scramble them, etc.
Same difference between overland difficulty. Not wanting a separate instance is NOT the same thing as wanting nothing to be done.