Anyone else have a bully /kick you from a dungeon? (Screenshot)

AlnilamE

First, let me say I've never been kicked from a dungeon run, and the only times I've kicked someone is when they asked to (like they wanted to queue for a vet pledge and ended up in normal by mistake).

I would only kick someone if they are being rude.

That said, if a healer shows up with 40k health and a sword and board, I'm going to raise both eyebrows.

And I'm going to worry that they are going to taunt away from the tank.

And I'm going to think that they don't know how to play the game, because there is no practical reason for a healer to wear sword and board in a group dungeon. You mentioned Defensive Stance, but Harness Magicka from the Light Armor line would get you covered for protection.

marshill88 wrote: »

This thread is one reason why I'm so glad other players can't see your skill bar...look at some of the comments here form players who, after seeing my hotbar, think in their minds "yea, I'd kick him too"...yikes.

While we can't see someone else's skill bar, skills have animations and synergies, so it's easy to tell that:

- You're not buffing the team with Combat Prayer
- You're likely not using Orbs to help with sustain
- What skills you are actually using

Now, healers have a lot of leeway in what gear they slot. Different heal sets do different things and you can combine a number of different ones to suit your style.

As others have pointed out, there are things that a healer can do that will help the team. You don't seem aware of this, nor do you seem to care that you could be doing a lot of things that are more helpful than healing people who are not dying.

That's an attitude problem that you seem to have. I've noticed a number of your threads have gotten locked before I had the chance to read through all of it, and I've never seen so many different threads by the same player being locked on these forums.

This should tell you something.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Hey OP,

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes in random group dungeons.
That said, I must say that 40K health on a healer build is a bit eyebrow rising and at first glance I would have thought of you as a PvP player with that kind of build.

It's nice to read up and get a proper build going. I've noticed a lot of people these days either don't know what a proper healer setup is or how to play and position themselves if a healer is in group. It's been the choices of unique jewellery sets and other changes that have put healers in the cupboard a bit, hey.

When I do spot something abnormal in my random dungeon group and a kick is necessary -> level 10 in a DLC vet, someone fake tanking -> I always explain calmly before kicking -> if you are an experienced player in ESO please do the same, don't be mean or mock...you started the game at some point too and you didn't appreciate it back then)

Hope you continue healing and enjoy it though! But yes, 40K HP -> you are a tank build or a smallscale PvPer

You can google search some setups, but I must say we should promote the healing classes a bit more once again to get a bit more diversity, survivability and understanding of the healing classes, skills, uptimes and positioning as it will greatly help these players down the road. At the moment many of the streams speak of content and strategies...we are getting to a point where players can now start to focus on group composition comprehension and working with it!

Pauwer

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

Pauwer wrote: »

All the comments really make want one to play healer lol. Not needed for anything. So.... when is the next fake healer complaint thread coming?

Healers are only not needed with very optimized groups. The average pug dies pretty quickly without heals.

And yet a healer is kicked in a pug group, before the dungeon even begins, in the case of op

xaraan

I've noticed most of the toxic behavior from pve players like this are the ones that want to think they are hot stuff, but come up short, so they try real hard to act like they know all.

I mean, the person wasn't wrong in that sword and board, 40k health on a healer build in PvE isn't really optimal and takes away from your healing ability by lowering possible magicka pool and options, BUT it really doesn't matter. I'd have just assumed you were on a pvp build doing some pledges and if I needed a heal and got a heal, I'd be happy.

Any player that actually knows what they are talking about, also knows when the pve meta doesn't matter. Which is about 99% of the content in the game.

Supreme_Atromancer

I think the major point here is, yes - some content is tough, and without the right build and knowledge, some people aren't going to make it through.

But don't be a d -ick about it. Explain your point of view like you're talking to another freaking human being. If its not going to work out, or people are being problematic, sure - kicks need to happen. Just we're all here to run in Tamriel together. No need to be a jerk.

Ryath_Waylander

zvavi wrote: »

JoDiMageio wrote: »

bad rap

I apologies. I had to. Jokes aside, most healers in pug do bring bad reputation for healers.


Healers are a in a bad place,
Move aside for the dps race,
yo yo,
Wear buff sets and support,
Or else we kick and report,
ye ye,
Sanctuary is a big no no,
Just take a third dd and lets go,
go go,
Healers are a in a bad place,
Move aside for the dps race,
yo yo,
Healer just heals and I am sad,
Pale order will be worn instead,
ye ye,
A sole orb thrown is so rare,
For the group it is not fair,
no no,
Healers are a in a bad place,
Move aside for the dps race,
:drops mic:

Ha ha! I am a healer and this is still awesome

Goregrinder

marshill88 wrote: »

Well I knew it was bound to happen...I queue up for a 4 person dungeon to do undaunted quests and I get kicked before we even began. I've been doing dungeon queues only for about a week, and I've already had at least a couple dozen runs, everyone is so friendly and most runs have been smooth. I queue up as a healer, I'm a magcro and I have a pretty powerful heal build. I've gotten several compliments from BG's keeping my teammates alive. I'm not a pro healer, but I'm pretty decent. My entire build for this dungeon run is for heals, both bars are loaded with healing skills.

So the moment I enter the dungeon, I'm just snacking on my chips and salsa and I didn't even read the screen....one of the guys in there was immediately challenging me on my "build". This kind of thing has never happened to me before (I've read about it on the forums, but now I get to experience it).

My happy demeanor immediately changed and I decided this guy was giving me a judgmental audit.

Here is the entire conversation from the moment I entered the dungeon to the moment I was kicked, which was all of about 60 seconds. He didn't even let me go on a single fight.
I'm blacking out the names to protect players. My intent with this post is to just vent about one of those rude players you hear about who love to kick people who don't measure up to their stereotypes and presuppositions.



I had waited a while for my dungeon run to start, so it was kind of disappointing to be booted like that. I wondered why other group members just "go along" when a know-it-all decides to kick someone. Funny, if I was in a group and someone was trying to kick a player for this, I'd probably start a vote to kick them instead. I like to stand up for the little guy, but that's just me.

I'm just venting, it feels better to come here and share my experiences sometimes. I understand this sort of thing is probably common place and it's all good, even though players who do this are pretty lame in my book.

If you knew it was bound to happen, why are you complaining that it did? It always sucks when we are kicked from dungeons, but welcome to PUG life. The reality is that your build made no sense to your group. You're a healer running around with sword and board doing PVE group content.

You're running some self-brewed PVP build...and that's fine. You're allowed to play however you want, even if that means entering a dungeon not at all optimized to heal that content, just don't expect everyone to want to play with someone trying to heal with a build like yours.

Just because you can play a certain way doesn't mean everyone is obligated to let you. I mean your build...is all over the place...what exactly is 40k health going to do for you in a dungeon? You aren't a tank, and if you run that much health so you can absorb that much incoming damage by NPC's, then you're not positioning or moving properly in a dungeon.

I honestly can't feel bad for ya this time, because you basically showed up to a rec ice hockey game with everyone in their gear, and you're out here wearing pillows duct tapped to your legs, ice skates from 1972, a field hockey stick, and a stainless steel pot strapped to your head like "..alright guys, let's go do some hockey!.."

Supreme_Atromancer

The other thing to keep in mind is that dungeons are meant to be a group endeavour and given the basic fact that people tend to have different motivations and priorities, there is supposed to be compromise.

Not everyone wants to speed through the dungeon. Some people find it unnecessarily stressful. Some people are still learning the mechanics or the demands of their role.

People here tend to forget that being in forums, or even guilds, you kind of get indoctrinated into what you should and should not do. Builds and responsibilities evolve and then get mandated, but not everyone is on board.

Many, many people don't engage at the same level you guys do, and you risk having your head stuck in an echo chamber, not being able to appreciate different priorities, or see the world outside, but people who never got the dungeon expectations memo constitute a very significant part of the community.

Yes, people's videogame time is really important and all, but not everyone is on the same page, and the mandate isn't some inviolable truth just because the more involved members of the community keep saying that it is. Honestly, if I was worried about taking too much time to get a dungeon done I would not be naive enough to put my hopes in a random sample of a community that we keep seeing over and over again have different expectations, experience and skill - I would run with friends or just skip it for the day.

Its still mind-boggling to me all the fuss about companions ruining the definition of MMO when you have a community of people who as a whole would have you believe that their game life is so busy and important that spending 30 seconds longer in a normal dungeon is carte blanche for being abusive. This wonderful community was so patient and open that zos needed to implement a system so that a good number of people could actually finally get a chance to play content they paid for without having to cop attitude from angry pugs.

And if I want to pug and clear and someone doesn't have the spunk to do it, there is never a situation where I'd need to be an arseface about it. Your important time is not justification for poor or rude behaviour.

spartaxoxo

marshill88 wrote: »

But guys like this who boot players after a pre-run inspection are the Build Patrol...they are like school hallway monitors. No one wants some know-it-all to give them a build inspection on a quick undaunted 4 person dungeon run. Do the run, if its not working then you can kick. Its not even 20 minutes long.

A lot of people like that are bad dps that need a healer to carry them, tbh. I can run any of the vet dungeons with a healer of your type and have. I'm not gonna trifecta them with this level of healing because I would need some buffs, but I don't need a healer at all to just finish them to be perfectly frank. Which is all I'm looking for out of activity finder.

They probably saved you a lot of trouble. They should really only need some light healing here and there for the most part on any of these dungeons, or the rare burst heal, just to get them back stable because sometimes damage is just tough to avoid or we will all make mistakes sometimes. Because they shouldn't be standing in stupid in the first place and regular vet is not that bad you need to be policing people like this, especially not the healers who's build frankly matters the least in a dungeon

Don't get me wrong. This is a bad build for PVE. Most of the vet runs you've been doing have probably been base game ones or you're encountering god tier dps that can trivialize even vet dlc.

But the dlc ones like (Lair of Maarselok) would run much smoother if you ran a proper pve build.

That said, I always give people a chance first. And don't expect good builds out of activity finder. As long as you're not making things more difficult for me than it needs to be, I don't care what build you're running. I'm not ever gonna trifecta with a pug any damn way.

Massive_Stain

xv1_me wrote: »

Lephrel wrote: »

If we are talking about some easy non-dlc dungeon, then I think the kick was a bit harsh. However, positively no one runs a 1hs/40k hp healer. It was likely apparent to the players in the group that your experience with pve content was limited at best, they probably didn't feel like carrying someone through harder content, or they might have been fed up with improperly geared people queueing in the group finder.

Keep in mind: Healers aren't really required in veteran dungeons. If a group decides to go with a healer, then the healer is expected to provide damage and sustain buffs to the group (spc, worm, hollowfang, olorime, master resto, sentinel etc.). Simply being able to throw in a couple of resto skills isn't really going to cut it, especially when it comes to dlc dungeons.

All dungeons and probably 95% of trials can be healed with two resto skills.

Just like all dungeons and 95% of trials don’t need a tank to taunt anything. Tanks are just taking up space where a dps can be.

lol wut

marshill88

I have one last thing to say on this:

I run a vet dungeon with a group of 3 other players
Player A, Player B, Player C.
We steamroll the dungeon, no problems at all. It's hard to lose a dungeon run when a team doesn't wipe, and I'm very difficult to kill as I learned how to do through PVP.

Now, several players here who are a "BUILD PATROL" and like to kick people for a failed pre-run inspection are demonstrating to me that they lack skill. Because if Player A, Player B, and Player C and run with me and we easily succeed, and those of you who need to kick me (ii.e. you favored the OP guy who booted me) because you're so scared you might wipe, that just goes to show that /kicking me is all about your lack of skill, and not mine.

So I understand now why people kick before a run even begins....they have little confidence in their own abilities and are on the desperate side of things, so I'm delighted, absolutely delighted, not to be running with you.

I don't need to give an account to any self designated "team leader" from a 4 player dungeon queue as to what my skills are, no one gets to "god-mod" me. And I wouldn't do that to anyone else. I would only favor kicking someone after the run begins and its not working and even then, I would give the weak link a chance to change their gear/skills before kicking them.

/kicking people before a run even begins is repugnant, rude, and just wrong. If that's your cup of tea, so be it, I can't wait to compete against you in BG because you're no teammate of mine nor would I want you to be.

I give everyone a chance.
Besides, you guys do know its easy to swap skills, right? If a particular boss requires more DPS, I Have my mothers sorrow gear in my inventory at all times, I can quickly switch to DPS. Kicking people before a run even begins are the actions of a weak "mr. know-it-all" who has little skill.

I like to ask veterans in a dungeon if there is any special considerations for the final boss, and if there are, I will happily change skills accordingly (I'm still learning all the bosses- Lair of Malsalask was the only dungeon I have gone into that was really hard, as in very hard, and I will specially change skills for that one). Kicking me outright without even letting me modify or plan for a special boss consideration is obnoxious.

BUILD PATROL, like Hallway Monitors, are a sad lot to me.

kringled_1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

But guys like this who boot players after a pre-run inspection are the Build Patrol...they are like school hallway monitors. No one wants some know-it-all to give them a build inspection on a quick undaunted 4 person dungeon run. Do the run, if its not working then you can kick. Its not even 20 minutes long.

A lot of people like that are bad dps that need a healer to carry them, tbh. I can run any of the vet dungeons with a healer of your type and have. I'm not gonna trifecta them with this level of healing because I would need some buffs, but I don't need a healer at all to just finish them to be perfectly frank. Which is all I'm looking for out of activity finder.

They probably saved you a lot of trouble. They should really only need some light healing here and there for the most part on any of these dungeons, or the rare burst heal, just to get them back stable because sometimes damage is just tough to avoid or we will all make mistakes sometimes. Because they shouldn't be standing in stupid in the first place and regular vet is not that bad you need to be policing people like this, especially not the healers who's build frankly matters the least in a dungeon

I'm not disagreeing with what you said, but you've put the onus in this scenario on the dps to stay out of the red and do their job (dps), tank to taunt and position mobs, and healer to I guess occasionally cast some kind of heal? No debuffs, no buffs, no damage. Even if the group is more than capable of hard carrying a healer who's not contributing, it's a bit aggravating to do that for someone who's clearly not prepared to do their job as most people expect. I'm going to guess that most groups would much sooner take a mag dps with some offheal than this mountain of health.

Sallymen

Reading these types of threads and it's comments proves how bad the dungeon finder is and why ZoS decided to implement a companion system.

marshill88

Goregrinder wrote: »

I honestly can't feel bad for ya this time, because you basically showed up to a rec ice hockey game with everyone in their gear, and you're out here wearing pillows duct tapped to your legs, ice skates from 1972, a field hockey stick, and a stainless steel pot strapped to your head like "..alright guys, let's go do some hockey!.."

no, mate. I showed up for a vet dungeon, possibly 20 minutes, most of which are simple. Kind of like showing up at a 5 year olds birthday party to blow some bubbles, it's not that difficult. is it really that hard for you? PVP trounces most PVE content in difficulty. And if you don't like the gear someone has, you would boot them without even asking them to switch it huh?

It all comes down to this: A player boots someone before even asking them to change skills, before even letting the run begin....and that is lame. Will always be lame, always was lame.

slt101880b14_ESO

Elitist's tend to ruin most things for anyone "below" them.
Hell, in a normal dungeon I was harrassed for 5 straight minutes because I was running an ice themed warden with winters respite. After refusing to take the bait and argue back, he refused to continue on till everyone agreed to kick me.

kringled_1

marshill88 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I honestly can't feel bad for ya this time, because you basically showed up to a rec ice hockey game with everyone in their gear, and you're out here wearing pillows duct tapped to your legs, ice skates from 1972, a field hockey stick, and a stainless steel pot strapped to your head like "..alright guys, let's go do some hockey!.."

no, mate. I showed up for a vet dungeon, possibly 20 minutes, most of which are simple. Kind of like showing up at a 5 year olds birthday party to blow some bubbles, it's not that difficult. is it really that hard for you? PVP trounces most PVE content in difficulty. And if you don't like the gear someone has, you would boot them without even asking them to switch it huh?

It all comes down to this: A player boots someone before even asking them to change skills, before even letting the run begin....and that is lame. Will always be lame, always was lame.

They were expecting you to know how to build for a dungeon. If you'd said whoops, still in pvp setup, just got out of a BG, give me a minute to swap, you probably would not have been kicked. Whether or not the rest of the group needed heals or not, you showed up acting like you expected a carry for having checked the healer box. That's what got you kicked.

Ceejengine

Are you PC NA? I will tank for you any time. If you want build help / advice we can get you all squared away.

marshill88

slt101880b14_ESO wrote: »

Elitist's tend to ruin most things for anyone "below" them.
Hell, in a normal dungeon I was harrassed for 5 straight minutes because I was running an ice themed warden with winters respite. After refusing to take the bait and argue back, he refused to continue on till everyone agreed to kick me.

Yes, elitists....that is exactly how they act. the delusion is they think the other guy is "below" them, but most likely they are the weak who need to be carried so they have to inspect people's setup and don't you dare have a setup they don't "approve" of. No, they aren't elite, they are spoiled and entitled and only think they are elite. Put them in a BG and they'll be dead before they even get into the flag circle.

Ceejengine wrote: »

Are you PC NA? I will tank for you any time. If you want build help / advice we can get you all squared away.

Yes, and I'd love to. And if you have any advice for a particular boss, I will gladly follow it, I'm not one who ever wants to be a weak link.

Goregrinder

marshill88 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

I honestly can't feel bad for ya this time, because you basically showed up to a rec ice hockey game with everyone in their gear, and you're out here wearing pillows duct tapped to your legs, ice skates from 1972, a field hockey stick, and a stainless steel pot strapped to your head like "..alright guys, let's go do some hockey!.."

no, mate. I showed up for a vet dungeon, possibly 20 minutes, most of which are simple. Kind of like showing up at a 5 year olds birthday party to blow some bubbles, it's not that difficult. is it really that hard for you? PVP trounces most PVE content in difficulty. And if you don't like the gear someone has, you would boot them without even asking them to switch it huh?

It all comes down to this: A player boots someone before even asking them to change skills, before even letting the run begin....and that is lame. Will always be lame, always was lame.

It all comes down to this: If you show up wearing a Fedora, with bowling shoes and a bowtie, and your group doesn't like that, and they all vote to kick you because of that, tough luck. Majority rules. PUGs (and groups in general) are 100% a democracy. They didn't like your build, so they kicked you to find someone else, regardless of the difficulty of said content. That's all it is really.

Ceejengine

marshill88 wrote: »

Yes, and I'd love to. And if you have any advice for a particular boss, I will gladly follow it, I'm not one who ever wants to be a weak link.

Heck ya. I'm at work for now, once I get home we can meet up.

Never worry about being a weak link. The only way to get better is to get in the dungeon and make all the mistakes there are to make. Its only frustrating if you don't take it as learning.

Anyone who ever puts you down for not getting it right the first time is someone too stupid to remember their first time.

When we meet up we can come up with a gear scheme that you enjoy and we'll get in and farm it out. I'll shoot you a message for my in-game tag.

marshill88

Ceejengine wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

Yes, and I'd love to. And if you have any advice for a particular boss, I will gladly follow it, I'm not one who ever wants to be a weak link.

Heck ya. I'm at work for now, once I get home we can meet up.

Never worry about being a weak link. The only way to get better is to get in the dungeon and make all the mistakes there are to make. Its only frustrating if you don't take it as learning.

Anyone who ever puts you down for not getting it right the first time is someone too stupid to remember their first time.

When we meet up we can come up with a gear scheme that you enjoy and we'll get in and farm it out. I'll shoot you a message for my in-game tag.

sounds fun, sent you a PM! Thanks, mate.

molecule

marshill88 wrote: »

Yes, elitists....that is exactly how they act. the delusion is they think the other guy is "below" them, but most likely they are the weak who need to be carried so they have to inspect people's setup and don't you dare have a setup they don't "approve" of. No, they aren't elite, they are spoiled and entitled and only think they are elite. Put them in a BG and they'll be dead before they even get into the flag circle.

You are contradicting yourself - You say others are elitist, spolied, entitles - yet you can say that others are not as good as you in BGs.

And what has BGs got to do with being a healer in a PVE dungeon ? - NOTHING.

You queued up in sub-optimal/mismatch gear for your role - displaying to others that you do not have a grasp of how to support your group.

The fact that you have completed other vet dungeons in the past, speaks more for the rest of the group carrying you, than your build.

I suggest you focus on your role as a healer for the group, rather than a set-up that does the job in PVP.

Trying to deflect your errors with ' Build patrol' etc. is laughable.

marshill88

molecule wrote: »

The fact that you have completed other vet dungeons in the past, speaks more for the rest of the group carrying you, than your build

They have no problems running with me, I guess they're far better players then. My advice to you is bring up your skills enough so that you don't have to fear the build of someone else before you even start one fight.

When you have great PVE skills, you wont be so insecure based on others (unless the group is wiping, but I'm taking about before hand)

Xebov

The problem can be easily summed up.

If you queue as the healer with that amount of HP and a 1handed/shield there are 2 chances what you are. You are either completeley clueless and only partially able to fill your role and worst case will start spotting bosses, or you are a PvP player that isnt specced for PvE in any capacity and requires a carry in most cases. No matter whats the case, you will not fill your role and support your group the way its expected in PvE.

That you blizzed through dungeons or feel that the dungeons are easy has nothing to do with your skill or the impact you have. Its based on the Tanks and DDs you got queued with. If these are half decent they can make half of the vet dungeons look like a stroll in the park without even needing a healer to begin with. So dont be to sure about the part you played. Sooner or later you will end up in a Dungeon or group where your role is realy needed and then you will see the limitation.

I get queued with PvP players from time to time and in most cases these players have no impact at all on the outcome. If you want to do PvE get a propper PvE build, for PvP get a propper PvP build.

Michaelkeir

Ackwalan wrote: »

He did you a favor. People that vote kick before the first fight, do so because they need to be carried.

Add the fact he showed up with a strange build (for PvE healing) and then refused to respond in chat(or in a timely manner) is probably why he got kicked. That’s almost a guaranteed kick from most groups right there.

sevomd69

You keep saying vet dungeons are easy... usually when people say content is easy... they are either uber sweaty or they've been carried...just saying...

Indigogo

Yikes....
If it was a kick on sight, that would be a valid reason to feel miffed, but they tried to understand what they were getting themselves in for and got nothing in return.

It can be hard to rise above feeling defensive, hurt and offended, but it probably would have gone differently with a polite reply explaining you're a good healer and to please give you chance.

Cause an underperforming player is annoying in a dungeon, but a bad attitude gets the boot.

JoDiMageio

marshill88 wrote: »

BUILD PATROL, like Hallway Monitors, are a sad lot to me.

When people do trial content, or want achieves whether in dungeons or trials, they will often require that people wear specific gear, slot specific skills, redistribute their CP, etc. Expecting individuals to have appropriate gear and skills (even in pugs) is not the build police, it is ensuring the success of the group in the content that is being played.

I have no issue with non-meta, non-BiS builds; I do however have an issue with an individual in a group who is not geared for their role, and who will either create issues (aggro when you're not the tank, for example) that will slow down progress through the content, or is counting on everyone else who is geared up to carry them. This has nothing to do with my own skills.

Healers are the least selfish role in the game in PvE - skills are for the benefit of others, armour and weapons, too, etc. If you aren't providing the group with the buffs and advantages that your role is intended for, then you are not fulfilling your end of the bargain.

Vorpan

I don't see any bullying in that screenshot, nor do I see anyone here being judgmental. You have been rude, insulting and you seem to just want to argue. Which is a shame really, because the replies have been kind and have really good and helpful advise.

The players in your group had reasonable concerns. You have 40k health, PVP gear, and resto staff abilities on a s&b that would have been useless. You've done a couple dozen dungeons and been fortunate enough, from the sounds of it, to have really good teammates who can get through them with you.

I'm all for players trying things that aren't meta. I do it myself. But not everything works. Playing a healer isn't just throwing heals. It's also about helping your team with sustain and even being able to put out some dps when need be.

No one here is insulting you. They're trying to help. Maybe try to listen and take some of that advise instead of insulting them and name calling. Otherwise why bother posting this thread?

Xebov

Ackwalan wrote: »

He did you a favor. People that vote kick before the first fight, do so because they need to be carried.

Its much more likely that they noticed that something is off about a healer with sword/shield and 40k HP and that they simply didnt want to carry him.