Update on Proc Set Plan in Cyrodiil

WolfyRaps

Seraphayel wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Starshadw wrote: »

So.... what all that sounds like to me, is that you're saying sorcs need a serious rebalancing. If folks absolutely have to have proc sets to be able to be on even footing with mag sorcs, then the problem is the sorcs. I can actually agree with that, as sorcs have always been strong, ever since the game came out. The new CP system was meant to make folks have to choose when it comes to tankiness, dps, healing - is it actually working? It's too early to tell.

This is why I wish we were getting the full six months of no-proc. We need to see how the new CP system affects everything and everyone. If sorcs are still able to dominate despite the new changes in CP and armor, etc., then yes, someone needs to take a look at the class overall and figure out how to bring it into balance with the rest.

That would be a typical move from ZOS and would be in line with their former actions:
1) Check performance in 8 ways - find nothing ==> nerf healing outside groups.
2) Check performance for "proc"-sets - find nothing ==> remove "proc"-sets anyway.
3) Check "no proc" gameplay under a single condition (19 choosen sets) ==> nerf sorc

I hope they think about that a bit further then only around one corner.
I already posted that in another thread, I try it here again:


I just wanna mention something to the claim: "Now you can see sorc are OP".
I would agree to that if we all would run naked now.

But we have some sets - and these sets prefer the sorc.

How would it look (just a very easy example to make it clear) if we all only could use:
1) Burning Spellweave
2) Silks of the Sun
3) Strength of the Automation
4) Ysgramor's Birthright
5) Netch's Touch
6) Light of Cyrodiil
7) Morag Tong
8) Sword-Singer
9) Sword Dancer
10) Spider Cultist Cowl
11) Swamp Raider
12) War Maiden

Really - don't go to much into the details - I just want to point out that MagSorcs are in favour of the current situation, bc of Alfiq and willpower, but that's not necessary a proof that MagSorcs are generally OP. I don't say it is not! I only doubt that this is the proof.

If ZOS had choosen other sets, maybe it would look different...

In addition @Joy_Division postet something simmilar:
Joys Post
(If my english is not worse than I think If I understood that wrong, feel free to correct it @Joy_Division )

Yes, I play a magSorc so I'm definately not neutral, but in my mind the situation in NoCP Cyro was:
- Warden and Necro were above Sorcs.
- Stam vs a bit above Mag
- MagDK and MagNB (magPlar I'm not sure) were the classes which needed the most love...

So I see no reason to nerf sorc - definatly not bc of a biased set situation we have now.
If I see any balancing needed, then to buff the 2-3 mentioned mag classes.

Yeah, people are acting like somehow Sorc is uniquely favorable this patch and I just don;t see it. There are 4 specs that are top tier: Stamblade, Stamden, Stamcro, and mag sorc. I'm not sure how it makes sense to people to go specifically after just one of those, only there because they're not dependent on proc sets, and that will somehow make things better in the next update when so many of these busted sets come back.

Since you mentioned Magplar, yes, the spec is in poor shape because it has by far the worst burst skill (Purifying Light) in a in a high health, high heal meta that requires burst. Not to mention it has the worst defensive skill (Eclipse), which means it has to devote some of its gear to defense. It's like, yeah, I feel outmatched going up against a mag sorc, but this answer to this is not to target that one specific class (and continue to let say Stamdens stomp everything below them), rather to look at why magplar and other specs are not top tier.

It‘s 3 Stamina vs. 1 Magicka build in your example that are strong. The difference here is, the main strength from the Stamina builds doesn’t come inherently from their class toolkit, it comes from Stamina being so strong in general. MagSorc is strong because the class toolkit is so strong and diverse, not because Magicka in general is strong.

I‘m someone who prefers buffing underperforming specs (unless the overperforming specs are so much stronger). The biggest issue of Magicka is the lack of choices and some missing skills outside of classes. Rally is just a better version of Degeneration, Vigor is a better version of most other healing skills, Dizzy Swing is a better spammable than any of the Magicka ones and Executioner is a great execute. On top of that now DW is giving you more stats than a Staff can, which is a major oversight in design.

So what’s the solution? For Magicka, it’s improving the Magicka-centric skill lines for Mage‘s Guild and Destruction Staff (and maybe Psijic). If MagSorc still overperforms, tone it down. Unfortunately I do not expect any kind of adjustment made to stamina as they’re dominating for how many updates in a row now? Six? Seven? Not sure anymore.

2 of those stam specs are top tier because of their class kit. Warden and Necro were designed with how ZOs developed the game (namely scandalization of abilities, skills perform specific as opposed to multiple functions, classes designed with "stamina" skills in mind, etc.) rather than how the game was released (in which every skill was magicka, no such thing as stamina based heals, every weapon scaled off weapon damage, etc). The classes that struggle do so because they are squared pegs trying to fit in ZOS's new round hole.

What you write about the general advantage of stamina Vs magicka is true. But even if ZOS goes and improves magicka based gameplay (questionable to begin with), Stamden and Stamcro will still be top tier because their class kits fit ESO's current design and the overall stam kit will still be good. What will happen is that lesser tier stamina specs will be relatively worse and still leave every magicka spec (including sorcs since they're now nerfed) cherry picking options outside their kit, which doesn't get to the heart of the issue: certain classes have poor/obsolete skills and passives.

Wardens’ and Necromancers‘ toolkit is more diverse due to them being newer classes, yes. Stamina skill lines and their class toolkit compliment each other very well, but let’s keep it real, the Stamina toolkit is just better overall. Is there a Stamspec at the moment that is inferior to a Magspec besides Magsorc? I really don’t know, that’s why I ask. My perception is that basically every class in PvP is better off with its Stamina counterpart except Sorcs. But I’m happy if someone updates / educates me on that topic.

I would say there isn't. I would say that a Magplar is more useful in the AvAvA format than a Stamplar, but even then Magplars are overrated because their best helping skill is something that all Stamplars slot and I'd argue that Wardens and Necromancers are superior support specs..

I guess I'm kind of weird in that when I look at a Mag sorc, I say to myself, "Hmm, this is the only magicka spec that has consistently functioned effectively in Cyrodiil. Maybe it has things that other magicka specs ought to emulate" rather than it being akin to the Japanese Proverb that the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. I fail to see how nerfing Streak or Crystal Frag or Hardened Ward is supposed to make say a Magicka Nightblade feel better about the game when going up against a Stamden.

Guys, you are forgetting that one of the top classes in BG at the moment is MagDk, at least from what Ive tested. It does more DPS than any other class exept in some very rare anomaly happends and all teams have healer, get bunched up and azureblight allows some stamsorc to explose the damage meter .

I mainly a magika player, I only enjoy playing stamcro as stamina really, and the only magica spec that I find lacking and much weaker than their stamina counterparts is MagBlade really. But even that might just be a "learn to play" issue because even with Zaan/Calurion I fail the most on that class.

With a well balanced build I feel any mag spec can be on par with their stamina counterpart. In my case I am mostly better on magica characters than on stamina but that might be an experience issue too..

The curent Cyro "stat" meta is a shame for this game and should be forgoten as soon as possible. The classes progress went hand in hand with the evolution of the gear options. You cannot revert one seven years back, keep the other the same and not expect a sorry show of balance...

What you describe is an effect of proc based PvP. That’s why battlegrounds and Imperial City are not a good way to measure strengths and weaknesses of classes / builds and talk about balance.

No proc Cyrodiil is the only place were strengths and weaknesses are revealed and that’s what really matters in this discussion about balance as everything boils down to how classes play. Proc sets diffuse and distract from what classes are capable of. Proc sets at best should compliment classes and not make or break them as it’s the case (and as you said multiple times when you stated that many Magicka builds without proc sets are not competitive).

Classes, weapons and skill lines must be balanced before/without proc sets come into play, after/with.

I play Elf Bane/Grothar/Endurance build on my dk.. so the only proc is Grothar.. On my magplar for a longtime I used to run lich back bar with engine guardian and sthuns/auroran front bar... I wouldn't say that is abusing procs..

I feel that my magplar is miles better than my stamplar.. but that's just me.. Also MagDk is simply the best performing class in a crowded pvp environement like BGs not because of the procs but because it has great aoe dots in its toolkit..

I am pro proc sets not because I couldnt compete without then but because they offer build diversity.. And yes pure stats its what ive found to work best on my magsorc (alfiq/spinners/Chudan), but I would not say that sorcs are op because of that ! They are not! Do not nerf sorc! Or if you want to try another meta in which you only allow sets like elf bane and grothar and see how sorcs will work in that meta..

My point isthat ESO is a complex game.. Let the inherent imbalance of classes in different environements balance itself by allowing acces to large array of viable gear..

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

UntouchableHunter

WolfyRaps wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Starshadw wrote: »

So.... what all that sounds like to me, is that you're saying sorcs need a serious rebalancing. If folks absolutely have to have proc sets to be able to be on even footing with mag sorcs, then the problem is the sorcs. I can actually agree with that, as sorcs have always been strong, ever since the game came out. The new CP system was meant to make folks have to choose when it comes to tankiness, dps, healing - is it actually working? It's too early to tell.

This is why I wish we were getting the full six months of no-proc. We need to see how the new CP system affects everything and everyone. If sorcs are still able to dominate despite the new changes in CP and armor, etc., then yes, someone needs to take a look at the class overall and figure out how to bring it into balance with the rest.

That would be a typical move from ZOS and would be in line with their former actions:
1) Check performance in 8 ways - find nothing ==> nerf healing outside groups.
2) Check performance for "proc"-sets - find nothing ==> remove "proc"-sets anyway.
3) Check "no proc" gameplay under a single condition (19 choosen sets) ==> nerf sorc

I hope they think about that a bit further then only around one corner.
I already posted that in another thread, I try it here again:


I just wanna mention something to the claim: "Now you can see sorc are OP".
I would agree to that if we all would run naked now.

But we have some sets - and these sets prefer the sorc.

How would it look (just a very easy example to make it clear) if we all only could use:
1) Burning Spellweave
2) Silks of the Sun
3) Strength of the Automation
4) Ysgramor's Birthright
5) Netch's Touch
6) Light of Cyrodiil
7) Morag Tong
8) Sword-Singer
9) Sword Dancer
10) Spider Cultist Cowl
11) Swamp Raider
12) War Maiden

Really - don't go to much into the details - I just want to point out that MagSorcs are in favour of the current situation, bc of Alfiq and willpower, but that's not necessary a proof that MagSorcs are generally OP. I don't say it is not! I only doubt that this is the proof.

If ZOS had choosen other sets, maybe it would look different...

In addition @Joy_Division postet something simmilar:
Joys Post
(If my english is not worse than I think If I understood that wrong, feel free to correct it @Joy_Division )

Yes, I play a magSorc so I'm definately not neutral, but in my mind the situation in NoCP Cyro was:
- Warden and Necro were above Sorcs.
- Stam vs a bit above Mag
- MagDK and MagNB (magPlar I'm not sure) were the classes which needed the most love...

So I see no reason to nerf sorc - definatly not bc of a biased set situation we have now.
If I see any balancing needed, then to buff the 2-3 mentioned mag classes.

Yeah, people are acting like somehow Sorc is uniquely favorable this patch and I just don;t see it. There are 4 specs that are top tier: Stamblade, Stamden, Stamcro, and mag sorc. I'm not sure how it makes sense to people to go specifically after just one of those, only there because they're not dependent on proc sets, and that will somehow make things better in the next update when so many of these busted sets come back.

Since you mentioned Magplar, yes, the spec is in poor shape because it has by far the worst burst skill (Purifying Light) in a in a high health, high heal meta that requires burst. Not to mention it has the worst defensive skill (Eclipse), which means it has to devote some of its gear to defense. It's like, yeah, I feel outmatched going up against a mag sorc, but this answer to this is not to target that one specific class (and continue to let say Stamdens stomp everything below them), rather to look at why magplar and other specs are not top tier.

It‘s 3 Stamina vs. 1 Magicka build in your example that are strong. The difference here is, the main strength from the Stamina builds doesn’t come inherently from their class toolkit, it comes from Stamina being so strong in general. MagSorc is strong because the class toolkit is so strong and diverse, not because Magicka in general is strong.

I‘m someone who prefers buffing underperforming specs (unless the overperforming specs are so much stronger). The biggest issue of Magicka is the lack of choices and some missing skills outside of classes. Rally is just a better version of Degeneration, Vigor is a better version of most other healing skills, Dizzy Swing is a better spammable than any of the Magicka ones and Executioner is a great execute. On top of that now DW is giving you more stats than a Staff can, which is a major oversight in design.

So what’s the solution? For Magicka, it’s improving the Magicka-centric skill lines for Mage‘s Guild and Destruction Staff (and maybe Psijic). If MagSorc still overperforms, tone it down. Unfortunately I do not expect any kind of adjustment made to stamina as they’re dominating for how many updates in a row now? Six? Seven? Not sure anymore.

2 of those stam specs are top tier because of their class kit. Warden and Necro were designed with how ZOs developed the game (namely scandalization of abilities, skills perform specific as opposed to multiple functions, classes designed with "stamina" skills in mind, etc.) rather than how the game was released (in which every skill was magicka, no such thing as stamina based heals, every weapon scaled off weapon damage, etc). The classes that struggle do so because they are squared pegs trying to fit in ZOS's new round hole.

What you write about the general advantage of stamina Vs magicka is true. But even if ZOS goes and improves magicka based gameplay (questionable to begin with), Stamden and Stamcro will still be top tier because their class kits fit ESO's current design and the overall stam kit will still be good. What will happen is that lesser tier stamina specs will be relatively worse and still leave every magicka spec (including sorcs since they're now nerfed) cherry picking options outside their kit, which doesn't get to the heart of the issue: certain classes have poor/obsolete skills and passives.

Wardens’ and Necromancers‘ toolkit is more diverse due to them being newer classes, yes. Stamina skill lines and their class toolkit compliment each other very well, but let’s keep it real, the Stamina toolkit is just better overall. Is there a Stamspec at the moment that is inferior to a Magspec besides Magsorc? I really don’t know, that’s why I ask. My perception is that basically every class in PvP is better off with its Stamina counterpart except Sorcs. But I’m happy if someone updates / educates me on that topic.

I would say there isn't. I would say that a Magplar is more useful in the AvAvA format than a Stamplar, but even then Magplars are overrated because their best helping skill is something that all Stamplars slot and I'd argue that Wardens and Necromancers are superior support specs..

I guess I'm kind of weird in that when I look at a Mag sorc, I say to myself, "Hmm, this is the only magicka spec that has consistently functioned effectively in Cyrodiil. Maybe it has things that other magicka specs ought to emulate" rather than it being akin to the Japanese Proverb that the nail that sticks out gets hammered down. I fail to see how nerfing Streak or Crystal Frag or Hardened Ward is supposed to make say a Magicka Nightblade feel better about the game when going up against a Stamden.

Guys, you are forgetting that one of the top classes in BG at the moment is MagDk, at least from what Ive tested. It does more DPS than any other class exept in some very rare anomaly happends and all teams have healer, get bunched up and azureblight allows some stamsorc to explose the damage meter .

I mainly a magika player, I only enjoy playing stamcro as stamina really, and the only magica spec that I find lacking and much weaker than their stamina counterparts is MagBlade really. But even that might just be a "learn to play" issue because even with Zaan/Calurion I fail the most on that class.

With a well balanced build I feel any mag spec can be on par with their stamina counterpart. In my case I am mostly better on magica characters than on stamina but that might be an experience issue too..

The curent Cyro "stat" meta is a shame for this game and should be forgoten as soon as possible. The classes progress went hand in hand with the evolution of the gear options. You cannot revert one seven years back, keep the other the same and not expect a sorry show of balance...

OK... 90% of Cyrodiil like to play stamina and magsorcs because they're weaker them their counterpart 🙄

Sandman929

The only thing I dislike about this no-proc experiment is the resources it's costing me to play along with a temporary whim. If we had some idea what the outcome of this was going to be in the next update it would help. If we're just going back to crimson tanks and Vateshran staffs, then what's the point of these few months?

spotzhopz

Sandman929 wrote: »

The only thing I dislike about this no-proc experiment is the resources it's costing me to play along with a temporary whim. If we had some idea what the outcome of this was going to be in the next update it would help. If we're just going back to crimson tanks and Vateshran staffs, then what's the point of these few months?

They said on the first post of this thread that procs would be back by the next update, with separate campains for proc and no proc.

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

spotzhopz wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

The only thing I dislike about this no-proc experiment is the resources it's costing me to play along with a temporary whim. If we had some idea what the outcome of this was going to be in the next update it would help. If we're just going back to crimson tanks and Vateshran staffs, then what's the point of these few months?

They said on the first post of this thread that procs would be back by the next update, with separate campains for proc and no proc.

Actually proc sets are re-enabled with upcoming Update 30 (Blackwood Release), The separation of campaigns is still scheduled for Update 31 in Fall 2021

spotzhopz

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

spotzhopz wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

The only thing I dislike about this no-proc experiment is the resources it's costing me to play along with a temporary whim. If we had some idea what the outcome of this was going to be in the next update it would help. If we're just going back to crimson tanks and Vateshran staffs, then what's the point of these few months?

They said on the first post of this thread that procs would be back by the next update, with separate campains for proc and no proc.

Actually proc sets are re-enabled with upcoming Update 30 (Blackwood Release), The separation of campaigns is still scheduled for Update 31 in Fall 2021

Ah i thought they meant the separate campains would come with update 30 along with them bringing procs back, must've misread

Seraphayel

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

Sandman929

spotzhopz wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

The only thing I dislike about this no-proc experiment is the resources it's costing me to play along with a temporary whim. If we had some idea what the outcome of this was going to be in the next update it would help. If we're just going back to crimson tanks and Vateshran staffs, then what's the point of these few months?

They said on the first post of this thread that procs would be back by the next update, with separate campains for proc and no proc.

That is minimal information. I'm assuming they have some plans for proc sets besides just turning them off for a few months then turning them all back on.

marius_buys

Shacklebreaker works in current Cyrodiil?

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO

marius_buys wrote: »

Shacklebreaker works in current Cyrodiil?

Yes

WoppaBoem

Seraphayel wrote: »

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

ZOS Says, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets

Their is no mentioning of separate campaigns. Everyone says that and I think this is misunderstood. They currently can only switch on or off condition/proc bases sets. In update 31 they will have build the code to select which sets will work and which don't. Then they can as said : add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

No mentioning of separate campaigns. Which would also not work on console as they are not that populated as PC.

Seraphayel

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

ZOS Says, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets

Their is no mentioning of separate campaigns. Everyone says that and I think this is misunderstood. They currently can only switch on or off condition/proc bases sets. In update 31 they will have build the code to select which sets will work and which don't. Then they can as said : add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

No mentioning of separate campaigns. Which would also not work on console as they are not that populated as PC.

There is, it's just hidden deep down in the now-closed thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7153201/#Comment_7153201

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

That's part of the work we're currently doing for U31. We'll make it so certain campaigns can allow proc sets or not (including IC and BGs) and we can also better fine tune the existing item sets. At this time, proc sets are an all-or-nothing deal for all Cyrodiil campaigns.

As for those asking about console, we don't have a date yet when this will be implemented but you can expect to see what PC currently has, including the current list of item sets that are not affected (listed on page 1 of this thread).

Sandman929

Seraphayel wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

ZOS Says, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets

Their is no mentioning of separate campaigns. Everyone says that and I think this is misunderstood. They currently can only switch on or off condition/proc bases sets. In update 31 they will have build the code to select which sets will work and which don't. Then they can as said : add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

No mentioning of separate campaigns. Which would also not work on console as they are not that populated as PC.

There is, it's just hidden deep down in the now-closed thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7153201/#Comment_7153201

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

That's part of the work we're currently doing for U31. We'll make it so certain campaigns can allow proc sets or not (including IC and BGs) and we can also better fine tune the existing item sets. At this time, proc sets are an all-or-nothing deal for all Cyrodiil campaigns.

As for those asking about console, we don't have a date yet when this will be implemented but you can expect to see what PC currently has, including the current list of item sets that are not affected (listed on page 1 of this thread).

Thanks for digging that up. I like no proc, but I'm torn because I hate to see so much excluded from Cyrodiil. There are procs that only give opportunity (bloodspawn, new moon, etc) and don't do damage or healing on their own. I wouldn't mind those procs. I'd hate to see separate campaigns because it's just a recipe for one of them to be dead, probably the no proc campaign.

WoppaBoem

Sandman929 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

ZOS Says, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets

Their is no mentioning of separate campaigns. Everyone says that and I think this is misunderstood. They currently can only switch on or off condition/proc bases sets. In update 31 they will have build the code to select which sets will work and which don't. Then they can as said : add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

No mentioning of separate campaigns. Which would also not work on console as they are not that populated as PC.

There is, it's just hidden deep down in the now-closed thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7153201/#Comment_7153201

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

That's part of the work we're currently doing for U31. We'll make it so certain campaigns can allow proc sets or not (including IC and BGs) and we can also better fine tune the existing item sets. At this time, proc sets are an all-or-nothing deal for all Cyrodiil campaigns.

As for those asking about console, we don't have a date yet when this will be implemented but you can expect to see what PC currently has, including the current list of item sets that are not affected (listed on page 1 of this thread).

Thanks for digging that up. I like no proc, but I'm torn because I hate to see so much excluded from Cyrodiil. There are procs that only give opportunity (bloodspawn, new moon, etc) and don't do damage or healing on their own. I wouldn't mind those procs. I'd hate to see separate campaigns because it's just a recipe for one of them to be dead, probably the no proc campaign.

This we end up with nothing changed. I really hope they keep all the campaigns with the same rules and allow straight forward procs/conditions like nercomancer set, war maiden, monster sets remaining all just leave it out.

WoppaBoem

Seraphayel wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

ZOS Says, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets

Their is no mentioning of separate campaigns. Everyone says that and I think this is misunderstood. They currently can only switch on or off condition/proc bases sets. In update 31 they will have build the code to select which sets will work and which don't. Then they can as said : add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

No mentioning of separate campaigns. Which would also not work on console as they are not that populated as PC.

There is, it's just hidden deep down in the now-closed thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7153201/#Comment_7153201

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

That's part of the work we're currently doing for U31. We'll make it so certain campaigns can allow proc sets or not (including IC and BGs) and we can also better fine tune the existing item sets. At this time, proc sets are an all-or-nothing deal for all Cyrodiil campaigns.

As for those asking about console, we don't have a date yet when this will be implemented but you can expect to see what PC currently has, including the current list of item sets that are not affected (listed on page 1 of this thread).

Fair enough thank you very much for pointing that out. I am nervous now how ZOS will screw this up.

UntouchableHunter

Sandman929 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

ZOS Says, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets

Their is no mentioning of separate campaigns. Everyone says that and I think this is misunderstood. They currently can only switch on or off condition/proc bases sets. In update 31 they will have build the code to select which sets will work and which don't. Then they can as said : add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

No mentioning of separate campaigns. Which would also not work on console as they are not that populated as PC.

There is, it's just hidden deep down in the now-closed thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7153201/#Comment_7153201

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

That's part of the work we're currently doing for U31. We'll make it so certain campaigns can allow proc sets or not (including IC and BGs) and we can also better fine tune the existing item sets. At this time, proc sets are an all-or-nothing deal for all Cyrodiil campaigns.

As for those asking about console, we don't have a date yet when this will be implemented but you can expect to see what PC currently has, including the current list of item sets that are not affected (listed on page 1 of this thread).

I'd hate to see separate campaigns because it's just a recipe for one of them to be dead, probably the no proc campaign.

Exactly because the majority of players wana proc sets. So why force the majority play the way the minority want?

Sandman929

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

We still plan to leave proc sets disabled in Cyrodiil and will instead reduce the duration of this change until Update 30. With the Update 30 launch, we will then re-enable all item set bonuses in Cyrodiil alongside some additional planned proc set work (we'll provide details in the Update 30 Combat Preview). In Update 31, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

This statement contains several interesting thing:

U30:

- proc sets will work again
- they will have some changes on proc sets

U31:

- there will be separate proc and no proc campaigns in Cyrodiil
- they plan to add more flexibility to item sets
- they are going to fine tune proc sets
- they plan to have specific proc sets disabled completely

ZOS Says, we still plan to add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets as it relates to item sets

Their is no mentioning of separate campaigns. Everyone says that and I think this is misunderstood. They currently can only switch on or off condition/proc bases sets. In update 31 they will have build the code to select which sets will work and which don't. Then they can as said : add more flexibility and customizable campaign rulesets to item sets, and we will be able to fine tune which proc sets we turn on and off.

No mentioning of separate campaigns. Which would also not work on console as they are not that populated as PC.

There is, it's just hidden deep down in the now-closed thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7153201/#Comment_7153201

"ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

That's part of the work we're currently doing for U31. We'll make it so certain campaigns can allow proc sets or not (including IC and BGs) and we can also better fine tune the existing item sets. At this time, proc sets are an all-or-nothing deal for all Cyrodiil campaigns.

As for those asking about console, we don't have a date yet when this will be implemented but you can expect to see what PC currently has, including the current list of item sets that are not affected (listed on page 1 of this thread).

I'd hate to see separate campaigns because it's just a recipe for one of them to be dead, probably the no proc campaign.

Exactly because the majority of players wana proc sets. So why force the majority play the way the minority want?

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.
My point is if they're just turning all the sets back on, what are these few months about? If they're going to make separate campaigns, one of them will be empty.
7 years in is a little long to still be deciding on a direction. They should be the first ones to know when there are issues in any portion of their game, but it always seems like they're the last ones to know when enough complaints finally get through.

Jaraal

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

Gilvoth

Jaraal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

that is a Wonderfull question that only Zenimax Employee can answer.

Seraphayel

Jaraal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

They didn’t. They just paused it for 3 months to have some tests, everybody will survive this. After that you’re free to use procs in Cyrodiil again.

Sergykid

what condition does Rattlecage have? it doesn't verify if you already have Major Sorcery on you. It just gives you the buff, no questions asked.

also i heard a funny argument about New Moon, it checks if your ability is an ability

jaws343

Sergykid wrote: »

what condition does Rattlecage have? it doesn't verify if you already have Major Sorcery on you. It just gives you the buff, no questions asked.

also i heard a funny argument about New Moon, it checks if your ability is an ability

Likely, the check Rattlecage has is more to do with other sources of Major Sorcery.

Usually, the duration of Major Sorcery is updated if it is reapplied by a skill or potion. So it doesn't require a check, it just changes the duration and you continue on with Major Sorcery. What is likely happening with Rattlecage is now those skills and abilities that provide Majory Sorcery are unable to refresh duration, because it is constant, so they are running a check on the server to determine if they should apply or not. That's what I would think is happening for all of the Major/Minor constant buff sets.

Jaraal

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

They didn’t. They just paused it for 3 months to have some tests, everybody will survive this. After that you’re free to use procs in Cyrodiil again.

False. The test was over after two weeks.

Seraphayel

Jaraal wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

They didn’t. They just paused it for 3 months to have some tests, everybody will survive this. After that you’re free to use procs in Cyrodiil again.

False. The test was over after two weeks.

And then they decided to do a live test for three months which will be over in 2 months already.

Diva_Naoko

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

I'm not gonna lie, all I think that will come out of having a proc controlled and a proc campaign is a pvp community being split. And what follows is one of the campaigns will probably end up dying or having so little players it's pretty much a dead campaign like the no CP campaign Ravenwatch. Then people will just migrate to where everyone else is and then complain about the other type of play style to get it changed or re-worked

I'm all for letting people play how they want but all I think that'll come of this is going back to square one. The only real solution imo is just to fix the problem sets, not introduce new campaigns when we already have multiple dead ones

A "dead" campaign is not a bad thing. It allows pve players to complete Cyrodill and IC stuff like quests, shards, anchors, fishing etc whtiout being harassed by pestering snippers and trolls. Bring them on! Alternatively, make a pve-only instance of Cyrodill and IC. I have a detailed proposal for that.

Diva_Naoko

marius_buys wrote: »

The reason why proc set users are so vocal about not splitting the campaign's is because they NEED the non proc community to feed off. Let proc sets fight proc sets, give me a frikkin level playing field so its me vs you not my set vs your set.

I have enough issues dealing with my ping vs your ping which affects our actions per minute. We dont all sit on top of a server and in pvp if my opponet cast 4 skills and I cast 2 guess who will win.

A level playing filed is one where each player is able to select their sets and weapons according to their preferred play style and abilities. What you want is a field that favours your play style and abilities. Not fair and not level.

Gilvoth

Diva_Naoko wrote: »

marius_buys wrote: »

The reason why proc set users are so vocal about not splitting the campaign's is because they NEED the non proc community to feed off. Let proc sets fight proc sets, give me a frikkin level playing field so its me vs you not my set vs your set.

I have enough issues dealing with my ping vs your ping which affects our actions per minute. We dont all sit on top of a server and in pvp if my opponet cast 4 skills and I cast 2 guess who will win.

A level playing filed is one where each player is able to select their sets and weapons according to their preferred play style and abilities. What you want is a field that favours your play style and abilities. Not fair and not level.

so very true.
that is exactly what we are saying.

Sandman929

Ever since Malacath, and arguably even before, every update is just going from one broken proc meta to another in PvP. ZOS keeps making crit less relevant and harder to get, they keep releasing very strong damage procs that can't crit anyway, and that just makes taking that 25% boost from Malacath that much more attractive.
I don't have a problem at all with 90% of the currently restricted sets, and I miss Eternal Vigor more than certain deceased relatives, but the last few weeks in proc-less Cyrodiil has been fantastic purely for the few bad apple sets that have been removed.

Azrael_Blackfyre

BRP resto working or is that considered a proc?

Tigor

Has everyone by now become used to pvp without procsets?