Update on Proc Set Plan in Cyrodiil

xDeusEJRx

Diva_Naoko wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

I'm not gonna lie, all I think that will come out of having a proc controlled and a proc campaign is a pvp community being split. And what follows is one of the campaigns will probably end up dying or having so little players it's pretty much a dead campaign like the no CP campaign Ravenwatch. Then people will just migrate to where everyone else is and then complain about the other type of play style to get it changed or re-worked

I'm all for letting people play how they want but all I think that'll come of this is going back to square one. The only real solution imo is just to fix the problem sets, not introduce new campaigns when we already have multiple dead ones

A "dead" campaign is not a bad thing. It allows pve players to complete Cyrodill and IC stuff like quests, shards, anchors, fishing etc whtiout being harassed by pestering snippers and trolls. Bring them on! Alternatively, make a pve-only instance of Cyrodill and IC. I have a detailed proposal for that.

A dead campaign is a bad thing lol, dying campaigns means the PVP scene will slowly start to lead to an untimely death. It's usually the same thing, one campaign dies and players will move over. If the players move over what's bound to happen is more complaining and PVP changes. Also your PvE points are redundant in the overall sense of PVP, killing a campaign serves nothing to make PVP better. If you really wanna PVE in PVP you can. You make it seem like there's PVP players camping every fishing spot in the game, which is not true. They usually follow the objectives of the map and go after people who are trying to get to objectives, if you just avoid the actual objectives this is not an issue. There's been many times when I solo play and literally see 0 action unless I create a pvp scenario like solo flagging a keep or holding the milegates that are on route to a PVP battle.
But if you're right in the middle of a PVP battle or in the path of a zerg fight you can't really blame PVP'ers for going after you, they can't tell the difference between a regular zerg trying to take their keeps/objective from someone just fishing, so that's on you

shacklebreaker

No proc sets is bad for PvP

AllPlayAndNoWork

shacklebreaker wrote: »

No proc sets is bad for PvP

Disagree. Its been great without them.

GrimTheReaper45

My thoughts on this.

Im completely ok with buff/debuff/support procs in pvp.

Im completely again proc sets that do damage themselves in pvp.

Beardimus

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

My thoughts on this.

Im completely ok with buff/debuff/support procs in pvp.

Im completely again proc sets that do damage themselves in pvp.

I agree on damage but also wild burst heals etc.

I'm ok with static stat boosts, buffs.

Seraphayel

Beardimus wrote: »

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

My thoughts on this.

Im completely ok with buff/debuff/support procs in pvp.

Im completely again proc sets that do damage themselves in pvp.

I agree on damage but also wild burst heals etc.

I'm ok with static stat boosts, buffs.

Honestly everything that can turn a fight from 0-100 should be removed from PvP. They should have a contributing factor, but not be the decisive factor in a fight.

Wolfmaster

You know, it would be great if the community manager actually chimed in now and then with a little information regarding all this discussion. It would be nice to know that there is at least some acknowledgement of our grievances whatever side of the coin you're on. [snip] What about the [snip] fella who's in charge of PVP...don't remember his name. What is his input on all of this? Instead of address our grievances they just remain silent, delete a few post now and then they think are troublesome, and push new products for us to buy....[snip] It's a business, and the number one rule of business is to keep the customer happy. There are plenty of other games out there that we can play, treat us badly, lose that "wow" factor that keeps customers coming back, and you will lose us to those other games. So talk to us, don't let us sit here and argue the point with each other without the facts in hand. Tell us WHY you did what you did and what your path is to address the grievances of so many. Maybe if you could just show us hard data that supports taking away what we have spend so much time and money on, we might be a little more willing to support your decisions. [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Sanctum74

Wolfmaster wrote: »

You know, it would be great if the community manager actually chimed in now and then with a little information regarding all this discussion. It would be nice to know that there is at least some acknowledgement of our grievances whatever side of the coin you're on. [snip] What about the [snip] fella who's in charge of PVP...don't remember his name. What is his input on all of this? Instead of address our grievances they just remain silent, delete a few post now and then they think are troublesome, and push new products for us to buy....[snip] It's a business, and the number one rule of business is to keep the customer happy. There are plenty of other games out there that we can play, treat us badly, lose that "wow" factor that keeps customers coming back, and you will lose us to those other games. So talk to us, don't let us sit here and argue the point with each other without the facts in hand. Tell us WHY you did what you did and what your path is to address the grievances of so many. Maybe if you could just show us hard data that supports taking away what we have spend so much time and money on, we might be a little more willing to support your decisions. [snip]

She already has chimed in and they also gave into the people complaining by shortening the duration by 3 months. They said they will be adjusting proc sets and campaigns, beyond that they probably don’t even know all the details yet so a little patience goes a long way. In the meantime let the rest of us enjoy skill based game play for the 2 months that are left.

AwakeOhSleeper

There is zero debate in the fact that this update has robbed Cyrodiil of any variation... other than class. Want to argue? Link your gear, and spoiler aleart: your bars look just like everyone else’s too. If you’re having fun this patch, other people are doing your damage... and you’ve only ever dpsed. (Not directed at my dope ass devoted healers, I love you, and don’t ever change... you da real mvp)

And I’ve never kept equipped a true ‘proc’ set (monster set excluded). I honestly kill with greater ease than I ever have, but I don’t feel good about it... you’ve turned good pvp players into bad pve players, decent players into vanilla bad players, and bad players into vanilla zergs.

You SHOULD absolutely be able to kill 5 players because you’re THAT much better than them, and if a simple stun from a proc set is all that sets the odds in your favor, then you ARE simply that much better than them... one uncontrollable event does not a battle of equals decide.

Will you please just mail me 50 transmutes x 18 chars for 3 months? You can keep the garbage jewelry.

(One last thing for the folks saying that the no proc set has made cyro more about skill than proc, there is not a single proc set out there that cp could not counter, or it’s a balancing issue... again I’m not arguing FOR proc set carries, but most of the fault lies with you and an inability to adapt. Just because someone stacks magic damage to kill you, doesn’t mean magic damage should be nerfed... it means you need to learn to play to beat magic damage)

Jaraal

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Players didn't create the "meta", ZOS did. Sets had been working as intended for years. It's just a few people who couldn't/didn't want to build for defense who wanted to "move the goal posts" to cover up for their inability to cope with ZOS' vision for the game.

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Which is proof that players weren't carried by sets, isn't it? People who couldn't play without proc sets surely would have moved to where they could still be carried, wouldn't they? And yet, by your very own words, that hasn't been the case.

Seraphayel

AwakeOhSleeper wrote: »

There is zero debate in the fact that this update has robbed Cyrodiil of any variation... other than class. Want to argue? Link your gear, and spoiler aleart: your bars look just like everyone else’s too. If you’re having fun this patch, other people are doing your damage... and you’ve only ever dpsed. (Not directed at my dope ass devoted healers, I love you, and don’t ever change... you da real mvp)

And I’ve never kept equipped a true ‘proc’ set (monster set excluded). I honestly kill with greater ease than I ever have, but I don’t feel good about it... you’ve turned good pvp players into bad pvp players, decent players into vanilla bad players, and bad players into vanilla zergs.

You SHOULD absolutely be able to kill 5 players because you’re THAT much better than them, and if a simple stun from a proc set is all that sets the odds in your favor, then you ARE simply that much better than them... one uncontrollable event does not a battle of equals decide.

Will you please just mail me 50 transmutes x 18 chars for 3 months? You can keep the garbage jewelry.

(One last thing for the folks saying that the no proc set has made cyro more about skill than proc, there is not a single proc set out there that cp could not counter, or it’s a balancing issue... again I’m not arguing FOR proc set carries, but most of the fault lies with you and an inability to adapt. Just because someone stacks magic damage to kill you, doesn’t mean magic damage should be nerfed... it means you need to learn to play to beat magic damage)

If sets turn you from a bad to a good PvP player, you’ve never been a good PvP player in the first place.

You should be able to kill 5 players if you outsmart them, using line of sight, killing by focusing one on one and then retreat, get your resources back and do it again - not because you got lucky with your procs. You shouldn’t be able to facetank 5 enemies or kill multiple enemies at once due to lucky procs. That has nothing to do with skill, tactics or timing, it’s just luck.

Regarding CP... that’s why we had no cp campaigns. And that’s why we’ll get no proc campaigns. Because of power creep. No add CP and proc sets and you have uber players, not necessarily due to skill, but due to them putting more time into the game to get 2000 or more CP.

Wolfmaster

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Wolfmaster wrote: »

You know, it would be great if the community manager actually chimed in now and then with a little information regarding all this discussion. It would be nice to know that there is at least some acknowledgement of our grievances whatever side of the coin you're on. [snip] What about the [snip] fella who's in charge of PVP...don't remember his name. What is his input on all of this? Instead of address our grievances they just remain silent, delete a few post now and then they think are troublesome, and push new products for us to buy....[snip] It's a business, and the number one rule of business is to keep the customer happy. There are plenty of other games out there that we can play, treat us badly, lose that "wow" factor that keeps customers coming back, and you will lose us to those other games. So talk to us, don't let us sit here and argue the point with each other without the facts in hand. Tell us WHY you did what you did and what your path is to address the grievances of so many. Maybe if you could just show us hard data that supports taking away what we have spend so much time and money on, we might be a little more willing to support your decisions. [snip]

She already has chimed in and they also gave into the people complaining by shortening the duration by 3 months. They said they will be adjusting proc sets and campaigns, beyond that they probably don’t even know all the details yet so a little patience goes a long way. In the meantime let the rest of us enjoy skill based game play for the 2 months that are left.

Gave in? Would you thank a thief for stealing your wallet then deciding to return half your money? The investment of time and resources that was lost to this decision is very real. A lot of people paid for this content and spent countless hours collecting the sets and the resources needed to level them up. That is something they had no right to take from us, especially with nothing more than an off hand remark that a lot of people said they liked it this way. If you want to take something from a customer that has paid for it in time and money, then you better have a more concrete reason to show them why you're doing it. I'm not arguing that there is not issues with SOME of the proc sets that need to be fixed. My issue is with how they went about doing this. [snip]

[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

UntouchableHunter

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

They didn’t. They just paused it for 3 months to have some tests, everybody will survive this. After that you’re free to use procs in Cyrodiil again.

False. The test was over after two weeks.

And then they decided to do a live test for three months which will be over in 2 months already.

False again. They decided to do a live test for SIX months. And the community make they change for three months.

Seraphayel

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

They didn’t. They just paused it for 3 months to have some tests, everybody will survive this. After that you’re free to use procs in Cyrodiil again.

False. The test was over after two weeks.

And then they decided to do a live test for three months which will be over in 2 months already.

False again. They decided to do a live test for SIX months. And the community make they change for three months.

You don’t know if the community made them change this plan or if they just realized that it’s better to not have no proc Cyrodiil for 6 months.

If the three months now achieve nothing or proc sets get nerfed super hard in general, I guess we can blame everyone who’s been whining about 6 months being too long, right?

Wolfmaster wrote: »

Gave in? Would you thank a thief for stealing your wallet then deciding to return half your money? The investment of time and resources that was lost to this decision is very real. A lot of people paid for this content and spent countless hours collecting the sets and the resources needed to level them up. That is something they had no right to take from us, especially with nothing more than an off hand remark that a lot of people said they liked it this way. If you want to take something from a customer that has paid for it in time and money, then you better have a more concrete reason to show them why you're doing it. I'm not arguing that there is not issues with SOME of the proc sets that need to be fixed. My issue is with how they went about doing this.

Here you are wrong: as long as Zenimax provides you the accessibility to ESO, they have every right to do with their game what they want.

olsborg

Having seperate campaigns for proccs and no proccs isnt a good solution imo. The reason being, the game's pvp is quite dead. Outside of prime time you struggle to find action, and during prime time the game is unplayable. Imagine dividing the playerbase further. The noprocc camp would be a wasteland of pvp, no action outside of maybe the primest of prime time.

The solution needs to be a complete rework of proccsets vs statsets.

Wolfmaster

[/quote]Here you are wrong: as long as Zenimax provides you the accessibility to ESO, they have every right to do with their game what they want. [/quote]

I'm well aware of their legal right to do so, I was referring to their betrayal of customer trust. Just because they can do something, doesn't mean they should. Like I said before, my argument here has nothing to do with the fact that proc sets and class balance needs to be fixed. I'm 100% behind that. My issue is with the way they did this. It went from a 3 week test for lag issues to a 6 month ban on 80% of the equipment in game, to a 3 month ban. Who's to say that they won't change their minds again and just decide to not allow proc sets ever again? What if they decide next week that they are going to remove the Sorc class from the game for 6 months while they try to figure out how to fix it? It is no different. My point is, they went about this very poorly, they took away the time, effort, and financial investment of thousands of players with ZERO warning. That, is where my issue lays.

WolfyRaps

olsborg wrote: »

Having seperate campaigns for proccs and no proccs isnt a good solution imo. The reason being, the game's pvp is quite dead. Outside of prime time you struggle to find action, and during prime time the game is unplayable. Imagine dividing the playerbase further. The noprocc camp would be a wasteland of pvp, no action outside of maybe the primest of prime time.

The solution needs to be a complete rework of proccsets vs statsets.

Pretty much. I cant even get the motivation to farm the geod this month. I only play BGs at the moment at those are the only things still kipping me in the game really.. My subscription is canceled and might remain canceled forever unless I see some competent decisions in Update 30..

I just don't understand how ZOS did not realize that the 3 months ban on 95% of the game will almost kill the game for PVPers..

xDeusEJRx

AwakeOhSleeper wrote: »

There is zero debate in the fact that this update has robbed Cyrodiil of any variation... other than class. Want to argue? Link your gear, and spoiler aleart: your bars look just like everyone else’s too. If you’re having fun this patch, other people are doing your damage... and you’ve only ever dpsed. (Not directed at my dope ass devoted healers, I love you, and don’t ever change... you da real mvp)

And I’ve never kept equipped a true ‘proc’ set (monster set excluded). I honestly kill with greater ease than I ever have, but I don’t feel good about it... you’ve turned good pvp players into bad pve players, decent players into vanilla bad players, and bad players into vanilla zergs.

You SHOULD absolutely be able to kill 5 players because you’re THAT much better than them, and if a simple stun from a proc set is all that sets the odds in your favor, then you ARE simply that much better than them... one uncontrollable event does not a battle of equals decide.

Will you please just mail me 50 transmutes x 18 chars for 3 months? You can keep the garbage jewelry.

(One last thing for the folks saying that the no proc set has made cyro more about skill than proc, there is not a single proc set out there that cp could not counter, or it’s a balancing issue... again I’m not arguing FOR proc set carries, but most of the fault lies with you and an inability to adapt. Just because someone stacks magic damage to kill you, doesn’t mean magic damage should be nerfed... it means you need to learn to play to beat magic damage)

Skill levels don't change with procs gone. Damage is being given to players and if you think that's not the case, what about when all procs used to have a % chance to proc, such as 10% chance of doing x effect? Only a few procs do that now, but before they buffed procs they all had a percent chance now it's all guaranteed to proc, before then it was 100% luck and now people just go into battle and spam their abilities to make their procs activate. If they still had say a 10-20% chance to activate then spamming abilities to make their procs work would not be viable because it wouldn't be guaranteed every time

UntouchableHunter

Seraphayel wrote: »

UntouchableHunter wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

They shouldn't do that, they should have a vision and implement it rather than try chasing the whims of whichever portion of the player base is currently being the most outspoken.

The vision for the past 7 years has been to allow players access to 100% of the game, including gear. So why did they stray from that vision?

They didn’t. They just paused it for 3 months to have some tests, everybody will survive this. After that you’re free to use procs in Cyrodiil again.

False. The test was over after two weeks.

And then they decided to do a live test for three months which will be over in 2 months already.

False again. They decided to do a live test for SIX months. And the community make they change for three months.

You don’t know if the community made them change this plan or if they just realized that it’s better to not have no proc Cyrodiil for 6 months.
.

I know because they told us.

Mr_Gallows

Balance of combat in ESO has so many issues on so many levels. Proc sets is just one pf them. You should do some more work along the lines of what you did when you made the minor/major buff/debuff system. Apply that across everything to avoid stupid stacking that cannot be balanced.

Generally the stat system of ESO is also a bloated mess. That could be streamlined for easier balance.

Next is the healing... how much and how often. That could be adressed to make combat balancing easier.

Merforum

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

Balance of combat in ESO has so many issues on so many levels. Proc sets is just one pf them. You should do some more work along the lines of what you did when you made the minor/major buff/debuff system. Apply that across everything to avoid stupid stacking that cannot be balanced.

Generally the stat system of ESO is also a bloated mess. That could be streamlined for easier balance.

Next is the healing... how much and how often. That could be adressed to make combat balancing easier.

Yes, this is on the right track. They know stats/crit ect are bloated and bad, that is why with 'battle spirit' they try to tone it down somewhat. But reducing a flat % from everyone is bad because is still rewards those who put all points into one thing and unfairly reduces that thing for all other players. For instance, if someone stacks 50K Stam and others have min Stam 12K like Mag toon, BS reducing 25% still has Stam stacker in great shape with ~38K but Mag toon now has only 9K (one breakfree then can't rol or block).

Instead what battle spirit or actually this can be implement 'game wide' to fix 'elite' PVE bloated DPS also, is that should introduce hard CAPs on stuff that is being stacked too much, like they did with resistance and trying to do with shields. I say trying with shields because they are only capping individual shield skills instead of overall shield EFFECT. For instance, it should be that you can never have more shield per second than 50% health, so if you stack 10 shield skills it will only be 50% of health per second.

If they had hard caps on everything that is being abused (or a nicer way to put it is overtuned when stacked up), they would NOT have to spend hardly any time tweaking and sometimse ruining gear sets, skills, race bonuses, CP, buffs (which changing individually are impossible to balance). To clarify here's my suggestion.

HARD CAPS (meaning in any given second it can never be higher than this, similar to resistance cap)(my numbers are complete guesses but ZOS should have a good idea where these #s should be to create actual balance)
1. crit chance/dmg 50%
2. Stats Mag/Stam/Health 40K
3. Wpn/Spll Dmg 4K
4. Healing 25% of health
5. Shielding 50% of health
6. Block mitigation 75%
7. Roll dodge mitigation 50%
8. Max damage of single attack ? 10K PVP only
9. Damage per second 65K PVE only
10. Max sprint ?, etc

Merforum

Merforum wrote: »

Mr_Gallows wrote: »

Balance of combat in ESO has so many issues on so many levels. Proc sets is just one pf them. You should do some more work along the lines of what you did when you made the minor/major buff/debuff system. Apply that across everything to avoid stupid stacking that cannot be balanced.

Generally the stat system of ESO is also a bloated mess. That could be streamlined for easier balance.

Next is the healing... how much and how often. That could be adressed to make combat balancing easier.

Yes, this is on the right track. They know stats/crit ect are bloated and bad, that is why with 'battle spirit' they try to tone it down somewhat. But reducing a flat % from everyone is bad because is still rewards those who put all points into one thing and unfairly reduces that thing for all other players. For instance, if someone stacks 50K Stam and others have min Stam 12K like Mag toon, BS reducing 25% still has Stam stacker in great shape with ~38K but Mag toon now has only 9K (one breakfree then can't rol or block).

Instead what battle spirit or actually this can be implement 'game wide' to fix 'elite' PVE bloated DPS also, is that should introduce hard CAPs on stuff that is being stacked too much, like they did with resistance and trying to do with shields. I say trying with shields because they are only capping individual shield skills instead of overall shield EFFECT. For instance, it should be that you can never have more shield per second than 50% health, so if you stack 10 shield skills it will only be 50% of health per second.

If they had hard caps on everything that is being abused (or a nicer way to put it is overtuned when stacked up), they would NOT have to spend hardly any time tweaking and sometimse ruining gear sets, skills, race bonuses, CP, buffs (which changing individually are impossible to balance). To clarify here's my suggestion.

HARD CAPS (meaning in any given second it can never be higher than this, similar to resistance cap)(my numbers are complete guesses but ZOS should have a good idea where these #s should be to create actual balance)
1. crit chance/dmg 50%
2. Stats Mag/Stam/Health 40K
3. Wpn/Spll Dmg 4K
4. Healing 25% of health
5. Shielding 50% of health
6. Block mitigation 75%
7. Roll dodge mitigation 50%
8. Max damage of single attack ? 10K PVP only
9. Damage per second 65K PVE only
10. Max sprint ?, etc

BTW implementing these caps could be per area too. For instance people complaining about overland content being too easy, what if in overland crit chance/dmg was 10% max, stats 20K max, w/s dmg 1K etc. That might be too drastic but you get the point, then the above for like PVP. And let's say that in normal dungeons single target DPS was capped at 30K or whatever level ZOS thinks will not bypass mechanics but in Vet you can get 65+K DPS, this would instantly remove all the griefers who try to blow through normal dungeons and not effect any of the beginners who are there to learn. Plus instantly make all content challenging for no matter what level you gain.

Some games actually make the bosses stronger based on the level you are at, but in this game CP is not a good indicator and CP2 makes it even less important, so max caps per area seems like a better fix.

Shadowshire

LarsS wrote: »

Congratulation ZOS now you have mannaged to anger most people playing pvp, one way or the other.

A suggestion, create an advisory board of pvp players, including solo players, small scalers and guild raids both casual, balanced and hardcore and you may avoid this mess in the future.

Of course, an "advisory board" which will only quarrel and fail to make significant recommendations which are acceptable is not going to do anyone any good.

Jaavaa

I spend plenty of hours to farm gear, tons of gold to upgrade this gear but i don’t care. This no proc is the best thing in cyro since Vet14 Times. Don’t bring back this no fingers sets to cyrodiil please 🙃

TheAlphaRaider

Let's be clear to everyone, if you did not catch this. The limitation is primarily because they are trying to sort out why the servers are cannot handle a fraction of the load it had when Cyrodiil launched. [snip]

Rather than rebuilding Cyrodiil, why not push a new map and content and build it from the ground up with zero tech debt? Cyrodiil is stale anyways. The problem isn't Cyrodiil, it's the fact that ZOS isn't broadening it horizons. In about 4 months, New World is coming out, and they have the capability to take the pvp player base right from under ZOS. [snip] Let's be clear why ZOS doesn't care, because aside from alliance change tokens, PVPers as a whole care far less about Crown Store transactions. We spend the crowns we get every re-up and thats about it. [snip]

1. While PVE content generally attracts more spenders in the microtransaction area, PVP games generally push the limits of gaming in terms of esport. MOBAs have effectively left MMOs in the dust when it comes to pro-level esports. Huge marketing opportunities.

2. PVP is, in my opinion, end-game content. It is far more challenging than PVE, and I have seen rag-tag PVP groups blast through vDSA with less than optimal gear. Generally, death of pvp feels like the death of an MMO game.

Now on to the major issue with procs and Cyrodiil. Its not procs but its that the proc dot meta took it too far. It was already pretty bad with venomous smite and sheer venom and unleashed terror/merciless charge. I terrorized bgs with my stamina warden with sheer venom/briarheart and masterbow switching bloodspawn or balorgs. I think it's this proc beam meta that came with vateshrans staff. I'm surprised that staff survived the last patch without a nerf and I think it should have been nerfed by either making it breakable by ccing the opponent or line of site. Rework it to a skill that costs magicka and doesn't give a 2x major debuffs. Also, malacath shouldnt work with a dot from a proc set. Increase the CD on crimson. Debuff zergs which will likely increase server performance. This is easy, i feel like optimal game play is between 4-8 man groups in cyrodiil, buff groups like this. For every friendly in a 50 meter radius over 12 people, apply resistance reduction and healing reduction. Create a vanilla campaign server for those who love absolutely no proc. Also fix entry level pvp. PVP is unenjoyable to so many people because of the lowbie bullies. There are whole guilds of parasites that prey on the weak newcomers. Punish lowbie farmers by adding a month long buff to first time created characters. Give an significant debuff in pvp areas to lowbie toons that are older than 2 days or just make all 1-50 gear character bound on crafting or pickup. Basically, make level 1-50 a tutorial zone where people arent turned off pvp. Add Guild vs. Guild content. Make guilds mean something more than having a trader or putting a name on a keep. If you want people to not use proc sets, don't build a meta around it. Hell, you still have proc sets coming out.

The harsh reality: There are some extremely promising MMORPGs on the horizon. Namely, New World and Ashes of Creation I expect will compete with ESO directly. Maybe its time to make a new ESO game. Maybe its time to add some new content that's not the same-old same old content arc. I mean where are we headed in these chapters anyways. The story line doesn't even progress. It's just a hodge-podge flavor of the year content mess.

[Edited to remove Bashing and Conspiracy Theories]

Earthewen

While I have found game play without proc sets in some respects fun in that it seemed to breathe a bit of life and change into the game, I have also missed my own proc sets and the damage I could get with them. Playing without proc sets hasn't been unpleasant. In some ways, it was as lot of fun.

The only thing is that I'm not sure that proc sets were the problem in Cyrodiil. I still experience lag and disconnects as much as I ever did depending on what's happening on the server. I posted a private message to a moderator with a suggestion that I feel would be worth looking into but I haven't heard anything back yet.

Still, thank you, ZOS for not forgetting about us PvP'ers entirely. I know this is a tough problem to solve and an emotional issue for some players with it tying to their favorite play style. Nevertheless, thanks for putting up with our posts and complaints and not entirely giving up on our favorite place in Tamriel!

angrydrew

I do not understand the problem people have with people wanting game content.THAT ESO INTRODUCED IN THE FIRST PLACE,it is not as if it is add-ons that are destroying the pvp side of eso it is GAME CONTENT THAT ESO INTRODUCED to begin with.

Jaraal

angrydrew wrote: »

I do not understand the problem people have with people wanting game content.THAT ESO INTRODUCED IN THE FIRST PLACE,it is not as if it is add-ons that are destroying the pvp side of eso it is GAME CONTENT THAT ESO INTRODUCED to begin with.

People just don't want be bothered to alter their builds they have become dependent on for years. They don't want to or don't know how to counter this gear they are complaining about..... or they simply aren't good enough players to keep up with the current meta. All the gear sets ZOS confiscated from us were available to everyone, so it seems pretty clear that the good players should still be on top regardless of what is available to use.

I think it's simply a case of subpar players not being able to keep up, so they look for other things to blame (gear) for their inadequacies, rather than making an effort to get better and use all the tools available to them at the time. Look at the names of the posters who were complaining about being defeated by gear. Now that gear has been removed from the equation, they are complaining about overpowered classes and skills. There will always be some sort of scapegoat.... but unfortunately their complaints have led to the removal of theorycrafting and the resulting disinterest in Cyrodiil in general.

Seraphayel

Proc Set changes incoming!

Proc Sets

The growing concerns over the “proc set meta” for the past few updates has not fallen on deaf ears. We understand the frustration of feeling required to run these types of sets and fighting against them in PVP. These sets are seen as “free” sources of damage, healing and survivability, all of which come with minimal tradeoffs. We want these proc choices to mean something, rather than just the de facto method of building a character without paying for it in some way.

With that stated, in Update 30 we are making all item sets that deal damage or heal scale with player stats. You will need to make a conscious build choice when looking at which item sets to include in your build, rather than simply equipping three proc sets for that aforementioned “free damage”. Damage sets will scale with Spell or Weapon damage, whichever is higher. Healing sets will scale with Maximum Magicka or Stamina, whichever is higher. Other sets that fall outside of that functionality will likely scale with Max Health, as well as a handful of other unique ways. Full details about which sets scale with which stats will be displayed in the tooltips for your item sets.

The effect we expect from this will be an overall buff in PVE territory as many players build for maximum efficiency regarding their stats. In PVP, we expect lower efficacy from item set procs as builds for PVP typically tend to focus on several stats that will take away from the potential to deep dive into specializing into specific stats. This also means that if you opt to run a full build of proc sets, you’ll be trading off a large source of stats for your build and you’ll be limited to gaining them from passives, enchants, and consumables, significantly limiting your ability to build as you could before. It’s possible to get to the values of “proc sets” pre-U30 if you specialize your stats for it, as well as getting higher values than before if you go all in to building around their scaling, but we believe this will lead to a healthier balance of damage and healing versus the “free procs” you get now.

Jaraal

Seraphayel wrote: »

It’s possible to get to the values of “proc sets” pre-U30 if you specialize your stats for it, as well as getting higher values than before if you go all in to building around their scaling, but we believe this will lead to a healthier balance of damage and healing versus the “free procs” you get now.

Well, that's interesting. People complained about Crimson / Thews tanks, and what are they gonna get? Super mega Crimson / Thews tanks!

Be careful what you wish for.....