i dont understand some ppls rage about the patch (tankiness still there)

Noctus

yes they tweaked a few little things but that doesnt mean that we are all now glasscannons. its still barely an inconvinience to build something tanky. i also had a high mmr deathmatch today that ended up with 260 points on winning team.

so yesterday i was testing a few builds on my character that is actually a gankblade. highelf NB so it rly sucks for tank builds becouse idealy u wanna go for argonian and sorc for such thing in my opinion(on both my sorcs i lacked the s&b skillline). so the build wasnt good but it still seems to show that u can be tanky and by making a little tweak this build can dish out up to a million heals while staying tanky enough to survive 2 - 3 ppl on u.

im by faaaaaar not the best in going for tanky builds and there are so many good ppl out there heal tanking compared to which im a pleb. (i even forgot sometimes to block in the vid and still survived)

https://i.imgur.com/UMYj8JB.png

so after running a few tests i came up with this.

i advice to just go to 10:10.

there are so many unused sets heal/tanking sets that would be usefull now that noone cared about in the past becouse they werent neccessary to tank multiple ppl


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODUc4ztnJj0&feature=youtu.be

Nestor

Two things happen with every patch. ZOS changes some things for Balance, and some people freak out before they even play the changes. People have claimed the death of various classes and builds with each patch, and guess what, those same classes and builds are still being played. Tweaked a bit maybe, but things go on as before.

Kadoin

Yeah, it's not just there it's worse than before.

I think I even said that would be the case before PTS was over...too bad they didn't listen

The gap between builds is at it's worst in PvP IMO, and mythics don't help that at all!

Appo

Not being funny but you are fighting 8 extremely poor players here absolutely no way in a million years is that a high MMR matchup, you can barely tickle anyone yourself, you are tanky because you have built a tank, the general census is that damage focused builds have now lost too much survivabilty and end up dead in an instant when fighting any1 even remotely competent.

Noctus

Appo wrote: »

Not being funny but you are fighting 8 extremely poor players here absolutely no way in a million years is that a high MMR matchup, you can barely tickle anyone yourself, you are tanky because you have built a tank, the general census is that damage focused builds have now lost too much survivabilty and end up dead in an instant when fighting any1 even remotely competent.

how about u post a video of ur gameplay then ? im regulary high mmr with high scores aslong as im not testing builds. with decimus and other ppl in EU PC i lost 2 matches due to testing builds before this match. so i see i probably ranked down but that cant be to much rank i lost. I EXPLICITLY STATED that im also not good in making tankier builds with only 2 exceptions on my characters which are only mediocre in survivability but still can 1 vs x in no cp. ALSO i STATED this is *** highelf nightblade slap that build on a sorc/argonian and see how it goes.

AND AS I STATED high mmr deathmatches still end by timer on that day it ended with 285(that is even in one of decimus videos). get of ur high horse and start learning the game by watching someone that is actually good like decimus. ur stating an opinion providing no footage or anything that would proove ur point.

watch this guys bg matches. everyone here has eyes and some sort of logical thinking and by watching high mmr player we see that ur just not correct.
if u feel to weak in bg defensively slap a god damn heal/defense set on ur char whats the problem. if u play glasscannon expect to break like glass.

OBJnoob

So the fact that this guy is tanking 8 bad players isn’t enough for you? You think he should be tanking 8 good players? You think that should be a thing? I don’t think that’s ever been a thing.

The way I see it nothing has really changed probably. The only difference is that “tanks” will now have to actually wear a defensive set instead of just running two “heavy armor style” offensive sets. That guy tanking 8 people shouldn’t have 7000 weapon damage.

And more importantly you will no longer need that much weapon damage to turn on and kill enemies. Cuz you’re a “tank” and because of this patch the dps are super squishy. Right?

I respect good players and I know it takes skill to beat multiple opponents and yes we all want to play a game where that is possible. But walking around with 7k wd, 30k+ resistances, and 2k stam recovery has gotten a little old hasn’t it? Isn’t it, stylistically, just a little weird that healing scales with damage?

Personally I’m going to find a character with a nice max health based heal, some nice forms of percentage mitigation, and I’m going to tank just like this guy does. And when I proc balorghs and clever alchemist I’m still going to be able to kill people. Just like always.

Plus have you looked at some of the mythic items? I’m seeing a lot of ways to cheese/proc recovery. Maybe you can keep your damage and sacrifice that instead.

Either way I’m thankful for the opportunity to figure something else out. I’m tired of every good player I know running the same cookie cutter builds. “Oh not me bro I made this build up myself. Yea, that’s right, I use one block cost reduction glyph. Totally original. No, not me, I don’t use fury. Front bar nma bro backbar potentates totally original. Not me I’m not a dps like you I’m a tank so I use 7th legion instead.” Uh huh. “I’m not a tank I’m in medium armor I use sword n shield for survivability I’m a nord stamdk totally original theory crafted it myself.” Uh huh.

It’s wrong to think a good player should be able to kill 8 enemies anyway. But, if you think you’re literally 8 times better than half the people you see... then I’m sure you’re also good enough to figure out how to stop melting and heal yourself

Mojomonkeyman

Im calling nightblade narrative. This patch has shorter ttk than dot meta for anyone thats not building full tank. Pretty sure 90% of PC EU regulars would agree with me here. Normal standyourground/brawling play has kinda died in nocp.

What more do you want, OP?

Noctus

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Im calling nightblade narrative. This patch has shorter ttk than dot meta for anyone thats not building full tank. Pretty sure 90% of PC EU regulars would agree with me here. Normal standyourground/brawling play has kinda died in nocp.

What more do you want, OP?

if u look at decimus video i linked u know that its not true hes even a little to overkill with his hp on my own brawl character i only have like 35 k .

but not sure if ur using sarcasm here. whats ur id on EU

Noctus

OBJnoob wrote: »

Personally I’m going to find a character with a nice max health based heal, some nice forms of percentage mitigation, and I’m going to tank just like this guy does. And when I proc balorghs and clever alchemist I’m still going to be able to kill people. Just like always.

i actually can make this build kill ppl by sacrificing only a little tankiness but as i said only on my sorc this would be rly good but none of my sorcs have snb skill line even tho one of em is stamina

OBJnoob

I have no doubt you can kill people. I think it’s funny people are crying that everybody is so squishy but simultaneously saying that tanks won’t be able to kill people. Why not? Everybody is squishy lol. The only trick is finding out how to live. Looks like you got a head start on everyone.

wheem_ESO

Noctus wrote: »

how about u post a video of ur gameplay then ? im regulary high mmr with high scores aslong as im not testing builds. with decimus and other ppl in EU PC i lost 2 matches due to testing builds before this match. so i see i probably ranked down but that cant be to much rank i lost. I EXPLICITLY STATED that im also not good in making tankier builds with only 2 exceptions on my characters which are only mediocre in survivability but still can 1 vs x in no cp. ALSO i STATED this is *** highelf nightblade slap that build on a sorc/argonian and see how it goes.

AND AS I STATED high mmr deathmatches still end by timer on that day it ended with 285(that is even in one of decimus videos). get of ur high horse and start learning the game by watching someone that is actually good like decimus. ur stating an opinion providing no footage or anything that would proove ur point.

watch this guys bg matches. everyone here has eyes and some sort of logical thinking and by watching high mmr player we see that ur just not correct.
if u feel to weak in bg defensively slap a god damn heal/defense set on ur char whats the problem. if u play glasscannon expect to break like glass.

I doubt the CP-325 guy that he killed with a gimmicked up Doylemish build (around 1 hour, 44 minutes into the video) had particularly high MMR. While I didn't watch every single match in both videos that have been posted so far, what I did see certainly didn't look like the sweaty high MMR games on PC-NA. That's not to say that there were 0 high MMR players involved, but there were definitely some weak ones in there as well.

Around the timestamp that you mentioned in the OP, there's one person who basically just light attacks you with a 1h/shield (then stops to walk a few steps away and rezz a teammate in a BG), and a Mag Sorc that Streak stuns through your block a grand total of one time. They either didn't really care about killing you (they were able to take the flag anyway, after all), or didn't know how to.

Frankly, I don't think very many people want to regularly play "troll" builds that have extremely low damage and negligible healing. It's possible for some classes to still have some decent survivability while maintaining very good damage (ie, Stam DK), but others basically have to be glass cannons or healers in order to be useful. And I'm honestly not too sure about the healer part anymore...I don't think my Magicka Necromancer would be very good at it in any build that wouldn't explode if looked at sideways.

mav1234

Decimus is certainly in plenty of high mmr games in EU. But like in NA, plenty of poor low mmr baby seals end up tossed into games to 'balance' them.

TTK is very fast this patch. The nerf to healing was in the wrong place, as it was often specific skills or stacking of skills that was the problem.

It does seem that the right kind of defensive/ sustain set combo can help with longevity significantly. At least on a stam. And healing recovery seems very strong. It may be we are at a point where most classes can't stack 3x offensive sets and be fine, but some with access to major buffs can. Hard to say. I need to do more testing.

Appo

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

how about u post a video of ur gameplay then ? im regulary high mmr with high scores aslong as im not testing builds. with decimus and other ppl in EU PC i lost 2 matches due to testing builds before this match. so i see i probably ranked down but that cant be to much rank i lost. I EXPLICITLY STATED that im also not good in making tankier builds with only 2 exceptions on my characters which are only mediocre in survivability but still can 1 vs x in no cp. ALSO i STATED this is *** highelf nightblade slap that build on a sorc/argonian and see how it goes.

AND AS I STATED high mmr deathmatches still end by timer on that day it ended with 285(that is even in one of decimus videos). get of ur high horse and start learning the game by watching someone that is actually good like decimus. ur stating an opinion providing no footage or anything that would proove ur point.

watch this guys bg matches. everyone here has eyes and some sort of logical thinking and by watching high mmr player we see that ur just not correct.
if u feel to weak in bg defensively slap a god damn heal/defense set on ur char whats the problem. if u play glasscannon expect to break like glass.

I doubt the CP-325 guy that he killed with a gimmicked up Doylemish build (around 1 hour, 44 minutes into the video) had particularly high MMR. While I didn't watch every single match in both videos that have been posted so far, what I did see certainly didn't look like the sweaty high MMR games on PC-NA. That's not to say that there were 0 high MMR players involved, but there were definitely some weak ones in there as well.

Around the timestamp that you mentioned in the OP, there's one person who basically just light attacks you with a 1h/shield (then stops to walk a few steps away and rezz a teammate in a BG), and a Mag Sorc that Streak stuns through your block a grand total of one time. They either didn't really care about killing you (they were able to take the flag anyway, after all), or didn't know how to.

Frankly, I don't think very many people want to regularly play "troll" builds that have extremely low damage and negligible healing. It's possible for some classes to still have some decent survivability while maintaining very good damage (ie, Stam DK), but others basically have to be glass cannons or healers in order to be useful. And I'm honestly not too sure about the healer part anymore...I don't think my Magicka Necromancer would be very good at it in any build that wouldn't explode if looked at sideways.

Like i said, except u said it a little nicer, the reality is he was a tank doing no damage in a BG with 8 poor players doing no damage and had no co-ordination.

idk

First off, people do not like when their build is changed. That is a commonality across all MMORPGs.

Second, many are burned out of constant change. Out builds in ESO changed often to begin with and then Zos went into overdrive more than a year ago with even bigger changes every 3 months. It gets old.

HankTwo

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

Mortiis13

Funny thing is, with the reduce of healing u don't need 7k wpn dmg anymore to melt someone down.

Instead of high heal/dmgtooltips, I go with a balance of resistance/penetration/and wpn- or spelldmg



I adjusted my build, my skill dmg numbers are smaller, but I don't feel any change. Can still burst newbies with 3 attacks, able to 1vsX against mediocore players and 1vs1 against a player with same mmr still last for minutes and also get wrecked by players that are simply better then me or had the better build.

I have much more trouble with lag, freeze, skills don't fire, desyncs and so on.

Edit:

Also permablock builds have a simply counter, ignore them. When someone have fun to be a training dummy when let him/her/ (insert ur preferably pronounce). U don't have to test ur dps on him ^^

Noctus

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

I didnt want to Show a viable build or Show that im good or smthing ur missing the point im just stating that if u want u can tank Multiple ppl even without LOS. Its not like everyone melting. U can go less tanky and still Kill ppl like decimus is doing it. Hes pretty good at such builds. All the youtubers and high lvl players agree that this patch was needed tho some Sets right now overperform and some underperform. I also know from xziii that he agreed. Ppl u should know as eu pc player

Scarkii

i dont know why a lot of people thinking tankiness is gone, cause my zerg tank hasnt changed whatsoever i still take about 30 damage a hit from players(when blocking) its always gonna be a thing thats what people dont understand

BaiterOfZergs

Scarkii wrote: »

i dont know why a lot of people thinking tankiness is gone, cause my zerg tank hasnt changed whatsoever i still take about 30 damage a hit from players(when blocking) its always gonna be a thing thats what people dont understand

You’re building to be a tank.

HankTwo

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

I didnt want to Show a viable build or Show that im good or smthing ur missing the point im just stating that if u want u can tank Multiple ppl even without LOS.

Man, the only thing that your video proves is that you can still tank the damage of 3 players (who are mediocre at best and reluctant to use their ults) on a tank build. Just watch your video again at 10:10 and ask yourself, are those players really putting up a solid, focused offense?

But more importantly, the title of your thread is 'i dont understand some ppls rage about the patch (tankiness still there)'. Now, in case you really haven't noticed, but it appears that the vast majority of people complaining about the current patch don't play a tank. I've searched the PvP forum and here are the threads complaining about the patch:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532292/pvp-changes (complains about healing nerf, proc sets and mag DK)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531594/no-cp-pvp-is-a-1-shot-frenzy (complains about proc sets and no CP being a 'slaughterfest')
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530625/i-m-melting (complains about too high damage in PvP)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532119/healing-on-mag-specs-in-pvp (complains about healing being too weak on mag classes)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532214/you-finally-killed-it (complains about duo PvP not working well anymore)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532057/healing-nerf-accomplished-nothing-almost (complains about magnecro having healing problems in bgs)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532073/gg-thanks-for-destroying-nocp (unspecific complaint about no CP being 'destroyed')

None of those forum members ever mentioned that they are pissed off because their troll tank build doesn't work anymore, so I don't get where you got that notion. Newsflash, most people don't play a tank and don't want to play one either. Now, I myself haven't made up my mind yet about the healing changes, but from what I've seen, I also worry that we might move right back into another proc set meta in no CP.

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

All the youtubers and high lvl players agree that this patch was needed tho some Sets right now overperform and some underperform.

Baseless exaggeration and appeal to authority. An authority that I don't recognize, since there are a lot good PvP players that never bother to make streams or videos.

So for the future, if you don't understand someones objections to a game change, maybe ask them about their position in detail.

[Edit to remove baiting]

Noctus

HankTwo wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

I didnt want to Show a viable build or Show that im good or smthing ur missing the point im just stating that if u want u can tank Multiple ppl even without LOS.

Man, the only thing that your video proves is that you can still tank the damage of 3 players (who are mediocre at best and reluctant to use their ults) on a tank build. Just watch your video again at 10:10 and ask yourself, are those players really putting up a solid, focused offense?

But more importantly, the title of your thread is 'i dont understand some ppls rage about the patch (tankiness still there)'. Now, in case you really haven't noticed, but it appears that the vast majority of people complaining about the current patch don't play a tank. I've searched the PvP forum and here are the threads complaining about the patch:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532292/pvp-changes (complains about healing nerf, proc sets and mag DK)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531594/no-cp-pvp-is-a-1-shot-frenzy (complains about proc sets and no CP being a 'slaughterfest')
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530625/i-m-melting (complains about too high damage in PvP)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532119/healing-on-mag-specs-in-pvp (complains about healing being too weak on mag classes)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532214/you-finally-killed-it (complains about duo PvP not working well anymore)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532057/healing-nerf-accomplished-nothing-almost (complains about magnecro having healing problems in bgs)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532073/gg-thanks-for-destroying-nocp (unspecific complaint about no CP being 'destroyed')

None of those forum members ever mentioned that they are pissed off because their troll tank build doesn't work anymore, so I don't get where you got that notion. Newsflash, most people don't play a tank and don't want to play one either. Now, I myself haven't made up my mind yet about the healing changes, but from what I've seen, I also worry that we might move right back into another proc set meta in no CP.

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

All the youtubers and high lvl players agree that this patch was needed tho some Sets right now overperform and some underperform.

Baseless exaggeration and appeal to authority. An authority that I don't recognize, since there are a lot good PvP players that never bother to make streams or videos.

So for the future, if you don't understand someones objections to a game change, maybe ask them about their position in detail.

this is just an example on eu pc for example xziii agrees too. now its not baseless anymore i guess but might still be exaggerated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTcrkELxIGU

HankTwo

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

I didnt want to Show a viable build or Show that im good or smthing ur missing the point im just stating that if u want u can tank Multiple ppl even without LOS.

Man, the only thing that your video proves is that you can still tank the damage of 3 players (who are mediocre at best and reluctant to use their ults) on a tank build. Just watch your video again at 10:10 and ask yourself, are those players really putting up a solid, focused offense?

But more importantly, the title of your thread is 'i dont understand some ppls rage about the patch (tankiness still there)'. Now, in case you really haven't noticed, but it appears that the vast majority of people complaining about the current patch don't play a tank. I've searched the PvP forum and here are the threads complaining about the patch:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532292/pvp-changes (complains about healing nerf, proc sets and mag DK)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531594/no-cp-pvp-is-a-1-shot-frenzy (complains about proc sets and no CP being a 'slaughterfest')
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530625/i-m-melting (complains about too high damage in PvP)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532119/healing-on-mag-specs-in-pvp (complains about healing being too weak on mag classes)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532214/you-finally-killed-it (complains about duo PvP not working well anymore)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532057/healing-nerf-accomplished-nothing-almost (complains about magnecro having healing problems in bgs)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532073/gg-thanks-for-destroying-nocp (unspecific complaint about no CP being 'destroyed')

None of those forum members ever mentioned that they are pissed off because their troll tank build doesn't work anymore, so I don't get where you got that notion. Newsflash, most people don't play a tank and don't want to play one either. Now, I myself haven't made up my mind yet about the healing changes, but from what I've seen, I also worry that we might move right back into another proc set meta in no CP.

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

All the youtubers and high lvl players agree that this patch was needed tho some Sets right now overperform and some underperform.

Baseless exaggeration and appeal to authority. An authority that I don't recognize, since there are a lot good PvP players that never bother to make streams or videos.

So for the future, if you don't understand someones objections to a game change, maybe ask them about their position in detail.

this is just an example on eu pc for example xziii agrees too. now its not baseless anymore i guess but might still be exaggerated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTcrkELxIGU

It was a baseless exaggeration because you said all youtubers and high level players agree. Anecdotal evidence wont change that.

Now about the video:
- nerf to defensive sets (especially blackrose dual wield): I agree
- impen changes: I agree, to a degree. Imo, armor trait balance is still all over the place. This patch just made impen less of an outlier, which is good, but not yet perfect.
- Healing nerfs: This is the big, controversial topic I guess, since most people would agree to the other two changes anyway.

Imo, a defensive nerf was definitely needed in CP, however as I said, I'm still not sure about no CP. Maybe these two game modes should have different battle spirits. My observations:
- People die faster
- However, since that also applies to me, my own offensive window is also noticeably smaller
- I spend a lot more time kiting around a in bgs compared to last patch, playing defensive and building ult, instead of directly fighting
- I don't bother anymore to try to engange 2+ enemy players head on and on my own in high mmr unless my ult is ready
- Proc sets are much more common this patch. Some noticeable examples: venomous smite, 2h maelstrom, grothdarr with elf bane, ...
- If you have procs from multiple people on you, the only thing you really can do is disengage, kite, and heal up, which takes much more time than last patch
- While healing got reduced a lot, health regen and shields remain untouched. This is not a complaint, just an observation, and I'm wondering to what degree this was intentional.

So yes, tankiness through hots (which a lot of balanced PvP builds relied on) is definitely reduced this patch and some people don't like it. Those complains still have nothing to do with troll tanks that mostly rely on block mitigation, though. So what is your point? That you personally like this patch because people die faster? I have nothing against that position, but it would completely contradict the premise of your own thread.

Noctus

HankTwo wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

I didnt want to Show a viable build or Show that im good or smthing ur missing the point im just stating that if u want u can tank Multiple ppl even without LOS.

Man, the only thing that your video proves is that you can still tank the damage of 3 players (who are mediocre at best and reluctant to use their ults) on a selfish troll tank build. Just watch your video again at 10:10 and ask yourself, are those players really putting up a solid, focused offense?

But more importantly, the title of your thread is 'i dont understand some ppls rage about the patch (tankiness still there)'. Now, in case you really haven't noticed, but it appears that the vast majority of people complaining about the current patch don't play a troll tank. I've searched the PvP forum and here are the threads complaining about the patch:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532292/pvp-changes (complains about healing nerf, proc sets and mag DK)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/531594/no-cp-pvp-is-a-1-shot-frenzy (complains about proc sets and no CP being a 'slaughterfest')
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/530625/i-m-melting (complains about too high damage in PvP)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532119/healing-on-mag-specs-in-pvp (complains about healing being too weak on mag classes)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532214/you-finally-killed-it (complains about duo PvP not working well anymore)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532057/healing-nerf-accomplished-nothing-almost (complains about magnecro having healing problems in bgs)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/532073/gg-thanks-for-destroying-nocp (unspecific complaint about no CP being 'destroyed')

None of those forum members ever mentioned that they are pissed off because their troll tank build doesn't work anymore, so I don't get where you got that notion. Newsflash, most people don't play a troll tank and don't want to play one either. Now, I myself haven't made up my mind yet about the healing changes, but from what I've seen, I also worry that we might move right back into another proc set meta in no CP.

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

All the youtubers and high lvl players agree that this patch was needed tho some Sets right now overperform and some underperform.

Baseless exaggeration and appeal to authority. An authority that I don't recognize, since there are a lot good PvP players that never bother to make streams or videos.

So for the future, if you don't understand someones objections to a game change, maybe ask them about their position in detail, instead of making a pointless video about a playstyle almost no one really cares about.

this is just an example on eu pc for example xziii agrees too. now its not baseless anymore i guess but might still be exaggerated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTcrkELxIGU

It was a baseless exaggeration because you said all youtubers and high level players agree. Anecdotal evidence wont change that.

Now about the video:
- nerf to defensive sets (especially blackrose dual wield): I agree
- impen changes: I agree, to a degree. Imo, armor trait balance is still all over the place. This patch just made impen less of an outlier, which is good, but not yet perfect.
- Healing nerfs: This is the big, controversial topic I guess, since most people would agree to the other two changes anyway.

Imo, a defensive nerf was definitely needed in CP, however as I said, I'm still not sure about no CP. Maybe these two game modes should have different battle spirits. My observations:
- People die faster
- However, since that also applies to me, my own offensive window is also noticeably smaller
- I spend a lot more time kiting around a in bgs compared to last patch, playing defensive and building ult, instead of directly fighting
- I don't bother anymore to try to engange 2+ enemy players head on and on my own in high mmr unless my ult is ready
- Proc sets are much more common this patch. Some noticeable examples: venomous smite, 2h maelstrom, grothdarr with elf bane, ...
- If you have procs from multiple people on you, the only thing you really can do is disengage, kite, and heal up, which takes much more time than last patch
- While healing got reduced a lot, health regen and shields remain untouched. This is not a complaint, just an observation, and I'm wondering to what degree this was intentional.

So yes, tankiness through hots (which a lot of balanced PvP builds relied on) is definitely reduced this patch and some people don't like it. Those complains still have nothing to do with troll tanks that mostly rely on block mitigation, though. So what is your point? That you personally like this patch because people die faster? I have nothing against that position, but it would completely contradict the premise of your own thread.

its both rly idk how much bg u play didnt see u around but hakkanistorm and other players still do alot of heals the difference is now they rly gotta go for healing sets instead of just dps/stat sets which would also give them the firepower of a dps. Also the patch made nightblades more viable again since their targets are less likely to survive. in high mmr u rarely if ever met any nightblade.

wheem_ESO

Noctus wrote: »

this is just an example on eu pc for example xziii agrees too. now its not baseless anymore i guess but might still be exaggerated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTcrkELxIGU

After watching the first portion of the video, where he's talking about balance: Of course he likes the changes while he's 1vX'ing weak players on a Stamplar in CP-enabled Cyrodiil. Especially since that allows him to have 7 Well-Fitted and still > 2k Crit Resist. He might feel a little differently if most of his playtime was spent on a number of different Magicka builds in Battlegrounds, against opponents who aren't bad at the game. There may also not be a proc-set meta in CP-enabled PvP, so he's probably not experiencing that nonsense (and he has a strong cleanse on his main class anyway).

Noctus

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

this is just an example on eu pc for example xziii agrees too. now its not baseless anymore i guess but might still be exaggerated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTcrkELxIGU

After watching the first portion of the video, where he's talking about balance: Of course he likes the changes while he's 1vX'ing weak players on a Stamplar in CP-enabled Cyrodiil. Especially since that allows him to have 7 Well-Fitted and still > 2k Crit Resist. He might feel a little differently if most of his playtime was spent on a number of different Magicka builds in Battlegrounds, against opponents who aren't bad at the game. There may also not be a proc-set meta in CP-enabled PvP, so he's probably not experiencing that nonsense (and he has a strong cleanse on his main class anyway).

im doing very good in high mmr bg with stamsorc stat build. procset meta is an illusion of low skilled players with only few exceptions(low mmr where those sets can be problematic). atm grothdar venom cheese needs a slight nerf tho its plagueing high mmr too.

ppl that die to caluurion, velidreth or anything else with clear indicators need to get their eyes checked or learn to not fixate their eyes on their skillbar.

do me a favor and watch decimushd twitch recorded match when there is hakkanistorm and submix on enemy teams. it shows the typical high mmr play. very tanky. i think tho hakkani tried some build there hes usually pushing more heals than the others but purple had most heals.

hes streaming right now go watch

wheem_ESO

Noctus wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

this is just an example on eu pc for example xziii agrees too. now its not baseless anymore i guess but might still be exaggerated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTcrkELxIGU

After watching the first portion of the video, where he's talking about balance: Of course he likes the changes while he's 1vX'ing weak players on a Stamplar in CP-enabled Cyrodiil. Especially since that allows him to have 7 Well-Fitted and still > 2k Crit Resist. He might feel a little differently if most of his playtime was spent on a number of different Magicka builds in Battlegrounds, against opponents who aren't bad at the game. There may also not be a proc-set meta in CP-enabled PvP, so he's probably not experiencing that nonsense (and he has a strong cleanse on his main class anyway).

im doing very good in high mmr bg with stamsorc stat build. procset meta is an illusion of low skilled players with only few exceptions(low mmr where those sets can be problematic). atm grothdar venom cheese needs a slight nerf tho its plagueing high mmr too.

ppl that die to caluurion, velidreth or anything else with clear indicators need to get their eyes checked or learn to not fixate their eyes on their skillbar.

do me a favor and watch decimushd twitch recorded match when there is hakkanistorm and submix on enemy teams. it shows the typical high mmr play. very tanky. i think tho hakkani tried some build there hes usually pushing more heals than the others but purple had most heals.

hes streaming right now go watch

You're doing well on a Stamina build, which also happens to be the most mobile class in the game? That's not the least bit surprising. And when I mention the current usage of proc sets, I'm not talking about Caluurion or Velidreth.

pieratsos

Noctus wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Jesus, this is some of the most useless battlegrounds gameplay I've ever seen. You just hold block and walk to flags and then stay there while the enemy team constantly denies you the capture, sometimes even by flat out ignoring you. And in the end you get a grand total of 950 points, 2 flag caps, 181k dmage and 31k healing. A tank with zero group support, why would anyone ever play like this? I mean if your whole gameplay strategy can be denied by a single enemy player staying there with you and ignoring you why even bother?

I didnt want to Show a viable build or Show that im good or smthing ur missing the point im just stating that if u want u can tank Multiple ppl even without LOS. Its not like everyone melting. U can go less tanky and still Kill ppl like decimus is doing it. Hes pretty good at such builds. All the youtubers and high lvl players agree that this patch was needed tho some Sets right now overperform and some underperform. I also know from xziii that he agreed. Ppl u should know as eu pc player

Yes if u make a "do nothing tank build" and just sit holding block, u can tank people who have no clue about the game and just light attack u but that's besides the point and proves absolutely nothing at all.

This is like someone making a lvl 40 min maxed character recording a lowbie BG murdering everyone and then using that clip as evidence to say that people are melting. Well no, it proves nothing cause that clip doesn't resemble PVP reality in the slightest.

Dr_Ganknstein

My gankblade has over 3k crit resist with only 1 armor piece thats impen.

FirmamentOfStars

Noctus wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Noctus wrote: »

this is just an example on eu pc for example xziii agrees too. now its not baseless anymore i guess but might still be exaggerated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTcrkELxIGU

After watching the first portion of the video, where he's talking about balance: Of course he likes the changes while he's 1vX'ing weak players on a Stamplar in CP-enabled Cyrodiil. Especially since that allows him to have 7 Well-Fitted and still > 2k Crit Resist. He might feel a little differently if most of his playtime was spent on a number of different Magicka builds in Battlegrounds, against opponents who aren't bad at the game. There may also not be a proc-set meta in CP-enabled PvP, so he's probably not experiencing that nonsense (and he has a strong cleanse on his main class anyway).

im doing very good in high mmr bg with stamsorc stat build. procset meta is an illusion of low skilled players with only few exceptions(low mmr where those sets can be problematic). atm grothdar venom cheese needs a slight nerf tho its plagueing high mmr too.

ppl that die to caluurion, velidreth or anything else with clear indicators need to get their eyes checked or learn to not fixate their eyes on their skillbar.

do me a favor and watch decimushd twitch recorded match when there is hakkanistorm and submix on enemy teams. it shows the typical high mmr play. very tanky. i think tho hakkani tried some build there hes usually pushing more heals than the others but purple had most heals.

hes streaming right now go watch

Stamsorc got very popular during the last weeks of the last patch and was stated to be a winner class in the new patch thanks to high mobility and damage avoidance. So good job doing well on a class which performs very good at the moment.

About proc sets: Nobody is talking about caluurion or velidreth, when the proc set meta is the topic. You mentioned a few like grothdarr and venomous smite, but there are many more plagueing no cp like zaan as a prime example. On the other hand its not only about damage proc sets, but also healing or survival sets. Chokethorn got very popular in this patch, since it saves your life on a very short cooldown.

Anyway your favorite example to „prove“ anything seems to be streamer and youtubers. But if I remember correctly, DecimusHD is a prime example of somebody playing the current winner classes and uses your dear proc sets. As much as I know his favourite classes are stamnb and stamsorc and he gladly puts proc sets on them like azureblight.

Btw nobody complained about tanks in PvP and nobody cares about them in PvP. The big problem was that actually builds with high weapon damage in medium armor had access to strong healing power combined with lots of sources of mitigation. The implementation of a more severe healing penalty through battle spirit was definitely the wrong way to adjust the meta and balance. The result is weak healing on many magclasses and a meta shift towards hit-and-run tactics. Cross-healing in groups still is strong, therefore zergs and ballgroups are still the preferred playstyle, meanwhile half the classes are more difficult to play for solo or small groups.

The game took a step into the wrong direction with this change, especially when we have the bad performance in mind. People more than before are motivated to stay in safe places, snipe and siege from keep walls or stay in the big zerg, because solo your survivability took a great hit. But since you are a stamsorc, good job playing probably one of the new fotm classes.

MurderMostFoul

SavageChain wrote: »

Btw nobody complained about tanks in PvP and nobody cares about them in PvP. The big problem was that actually builds with high weapon damage in medium armor had access to strong healing power combined with lots of sources of mitigation. The implementation of a more severe healing penalty through battle spirit was definitely the wrong way to adjust the meta and balance. The result is weak healing on many magclasses and a meta shift towards hit-and-run tactics. Cross-healing in groups still is strong, therefore zergs and ballgroups are still the preferred playstyle, meanwhile half the classes are more difficult to play for solo or small groups.

The game took a step into the wrong direction with this change, especially when we have the bad performance in mind. People more than before are motivated to stay in safe places, snipe and siege from keep walls or stay in the big zerg, because solo your survivability took a great hit. But since you are a stamsorc, good job playing probably one of the new fotm classes.

While I think the universal nerf to healing was an improvment, I agree that a more targeted nerf to cross-healing would have been ideal. With "unkillable" ball groups, folks have been suggesting this for awhile. From: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6472730#Comment_6472730

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

SoixanteNeuf wrote: »

Solution : Experiment with a Battle Spirit healing debuff, where healing from 3rd parties have diminishing returns. Something more needs to be implemented to incentivize groups to NOT stick together while stacking heals.

I've been thinking something along these lines for awhile.

Currently Battle Spirit:
-Increase Health by 5000
-Reduce damage taken by 50%
-Reduce healing received and damage shield strength by 50%
-Increase range of abilities with greater than 28m range by 8m in Cyrodiil

Add:
-Reduce healing received from other players by an additional 25%

Instead, ZOS just hit all healing with the nerf bat and we are now in the high-damage, mobility required meta (especially in NoCP). I'm wondering if a nerf to just cross-healing (healing applied to you by other players) would have been to difficult for ZOS to implement.

wheem_ESO

Icky wrote: »

My gankblade has over 3k crit resist with only 1 armor piece thats impen.

And that sort of illustrates the actual source of the problem: Champion Points. The ham-fisted changes to Battlespirit Healing + new proc sets that are more heavily skewed in favor of Stamina has basically ruined no-CP for a lot of builds.

Until ZOS overhauls or replaces the CP system, CP-enabled PvP is going to have issues with builds that are "too tanky" while still having damage. That can somtimes be a problem in no-CP as well, but it's not nearly as widespread, and was/is generally limited to certain Stamina classes.