MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

Langeston

Iskiab wrote: »

I've actually been playing this lol:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

It's not very good but fun. It's niche so does really well in some games, horrible in others.

One nice thing about Darloc is that you really only need it on your back bar. If you swap cloak with Manifestation of Terror you can replace the Darloc Inferno with a Willpower one for more damage. Another side effect of this is that with Cloak & RAT on the same bar, escapes are much more fluid.

Iskiab

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I've actually been playing this lol:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

It's not very good but fun. It's niche so does really well in some games, horrible in others.

One nice thing about Darloc is that you really only need it on your back bar. If you swap cloak with Manifestation of Terror you can replace the Darloc Inferno with a Willpower one for more damage. Another side effect of this is that with Cloak & RAT on the same bar, escapes are much more fluid.

I think I might give smugglers a spin and drop rat altogether. Marauder’s haste is annoying fitting the shield with concealed or constantly switching bars.

I tried going darloc front and back bar potatoes, but ended up going back to double barring it for better sustain. I might 1 bar smugglers, I’m not sure yet. Using a pot in the wrong bar would really suck and it would mean 5L-2M.

fred4

I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

Langeston

fred4 wrote: »

I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

If I may ask: why did you dump BTB? I feel like no matter what sets I try I always wind up gravitating back towards it. (Especially in no-PVP.) What sets do you use?

I agree re: RAT — it + Cloak is a fantastic combination, especially for my playstyle. (So much so that if ZOS ever decides to nerf RAT, I would have to seriously reconsider my build.) I need to start using Shade, but it has a frustratingly steep learning curve. Once I master it though, I have a feeling it would be game-changing.

fred4

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

If I may ask: why did you dump BTB? I feel like no matter what sets I try I always wind up gravitating back towards it. (Especially in no-PVP.) What sets do you use?

I agree re: RAT — it + Cloak is a fantastic combination, especially for my playstyle. (So much so that if ZOS ever decides to nerf RAT, I would have to seriously reconsider my build.) I need to start using Shade, but it has a frustratingly steep learning curve. Once I master it though, I have a feeling it would be game-changing.

My full build is just a few posts up. Caluurion, Eternal Hunt, Troll King, Blackrose resto. Also no shade. UESP indicates I'm using Ghastly Eye Bowl, but I'm actually using Citrus Fillet right now and sustain is fine.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

Next patch the passive templar snare from ritual will be gone. That only leaves MagDKs with a passive snare. Stam I’ve found don’t build for snares either and PC-NA is all stam and magsorcs.

It’s funny even though my new magblade toon is a fresh 50 I got thrown into a high MMR game somehow this morning and it performed well (landgrab). Once you accept as a magblade you’re not going to able to kill anyone solo in high MMR BGs focusing on healing and assisting others, and trolling people with speed, actually worked well... that plus all these stam are pretty copy/paste with a sword and board back bar on a glassy build so the fear trap was messing them up. Fear is great against the cookie cutter specs, though best to do it at range because stam burst with onslaught is over the top right now.

fred4

Iskiab wrote: »

Once you accept as a magblade you’re not going to able to kill anyone solo in high MMR BGs focusing on healing and assisting others, and trolling people with speed, actually worked well.

Agreed.

that plus all these stam are pretty copy/paste with a sword and board back bar on a glassy build so the fear trap was messing them up. Fear is great against the cookie cutter specs, though best to do it at range because stam burst with onslaught is over the top right now.

Good idea!

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Once you accept as a magblade you’re not going to able to kill anyone solo in high MMR BGs focusing on healing and assisting others, and trolling people with speed, actually worked well.

Agreed.

that plus all these stam are pretty copy/paste with a sword and board back bar on a glassy build so the fear trap was messing them up. Fear is great against the cookie cutter specs, though best to do it at range because stam burst with onslaught is over the top right now.

Good idea!

Yea, my build is pretty far from what you’d call ‘good’, but I trolled this stamdk hard who couldn’t land a dizzy on me, that was fun. Plus being so fast you can circle strafe people who’re trying to kite away so they can’t target you is pretty good too.

I had one stamwarden who couldn’t land his shalks on me while chasing him too while hitting him with concealed, super dangerous but yolo, who cares if you get die in a BG.

Magblade still sucks, but it’s also still fun.

fred4

fred4 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I have dumped Bright-Throat's. I tried Marauder once and didn't think it was much good. I think Skooma is a dead set and you underestimate the RAT snare removal. IMO you need that. You're going to use Phantasmal Escape and Skooma? Meh. RAT is good for having snare removal and speed in one skill. I find that more valuable than the (templar) AOE damage reduction and Skooma lacks 100% uptime.

It depends on what you're talking about, I suppose. If you need to maneuver in melee range and, if necessary, escape from it, I'm now sold on Eternal Hunt. I dropped 10% speed to make that work (different mundus) and you know how much I love speed. Hunt feels more effective than anything I've tried before.

If I may ask: why did you dump BTB? I feel like no matter what sets I try I always wind up gravitating back towards it. (Especially in no-PVP.) What sets do you use?

I agree re: RAT — it + Cloak is a fantastic combination, especially for my playstyle. (So much so that if ZOS ever decides to nerf RAT, I would have to seriously reconsider my build.) I need to start using Shade, but it has a frustratingly steep learning curve. Once I master it though, I have a feeling it would be game-changing.

My full build is just a few posts up. Caluurion, Eternal Hunt, Troll King, Blackrose resto. Also no shade. UESP indicates I'm using Ghastly Eye Bowl, but I'm actually using Citrus Fillet right now and sustain is fine.

Perhaps this deserves a longer answer. I play a Caluurion gankblade. This means, by definition, I play a mixture of melee and ranged. The most effective Caluurion burst combo is Lotus Fan -> Fear (Caluurion hits) -> Soul Harvest from Cloak. I originally used Zaan and Concealed Weapon as well, which made me a complete melee magblade. However for reasons that go beyond your question, I rearranged my bars so my attacking bar is the other one, the non-Cloak bar, and it's ranged. I find that plays better, but I still jump in for the Caluurion burst combo and I like staying at close range, in the middle of a brawl, if I can get away with it.

So, how do you get away with it? More to the point, how do you extricate yourself when taking too much damage? There are two obvious ways: Shadow Image and Mist Form. I'm using the third way: Stacking every possible movement buff with snare removal and stamina sustain for dodge rolls. Your playstyle becomes more dynamic and stamblade-like as a result, albeit your damage and shield strength plummets and you lean heavily on Caluurion for burst. My tooltips are trash. That said, Caluurion gives you decent crit, which I find PvPers possibly underrate.

Up to this point I felt that you needed to stack all speed, e.g. 3x gold Swift, Windrunning (CP), Concealed + Cloak, RAT and Steed mundus. Drop any one of those things and you feel your ability to dodge roll away and into Cloak from Sweeps / Jabs diminish. It's not abstract. I did feel it, whenever I dropped some speed for something else. I also had 1.3K stam sustain. This is perhaps not necessary, if you're careful. You can also use Deep Thoughts to replenish your stamina. However, I find Deep Thoughts no fun. Some people bash me for being a cowardly perma-cloaking nightblade, but I think people find something to bash you for whatever you do. In reality I like to stay in a fight, if I feel I can win or at least stay alive. That's why I find Deep Thoughts a good skill, but a little frustrating. It typically makes you cloak away behind some pillar to get stam back. Having the outright sustain for break frees and dodge rolls means that you can stay longer in a brawl.

If you want to perma-cloak, Bright-Throat's is ideal. Specifically it is better than other sets, such as Amber Plasm, because of the vagaries of the combat engine as they relate to your idle magicka recovery. If you want to run a drink that includes stamina sustain, such as Hissmir Fisheye Rye, Bright Throat's is ideal too, as it claws back a good chunck of magicka you're otherwise missing. However, if you're playing my specific playstyle, which previously included 1.3K stamina sustain from Hissmir Fisheye Rye, then you have other options. I always wanted to try Eternal Hunt, but never got around to it. Well, it works a treat. I had to drop the Steed mundus to get back the magicka sustain I wanted and I have less than 1K stamina sustain now, because I use Clockwork Citrus Fillet or Ghastly Eye Bowl. However the rune you leave behind when you dodge roll makes all the difference. It stops the pursuing melee player (templar). The problem you normally have is getting off RAT AND Cloak before your melee enemy is already back on top of you after a dodge roll, especially with a bit of lag. With Eternal Hunt I dropped some speed and stam sustain, but feel that my remaining speed and sustain goes further, while my magicka and damage stats are basically unchanged, due to the food swap.

fred4

I should clarify that I have gotten into the habit of casting Healing Ward before my dodge rolls. The full defensive sequence is therefore Healing Ward -> dodge roll -> RAT -> Cloak or Cloak -> RAT. Maybe if I cast RAT instead of Healing Ward, before the dodge roll, I would need less time to get successfully into Cloak. On the other hand, if you need healing, delaying Healing Ward until you are in cloak can be a mistake. It uncloaks you. I've died to curses + sorc execute and to Power of the Light, because I was cloaked and didn't dare cast Healing Ward due to still being in direct line of sight of the enemy zerg.

Iskiab

Yea, I tried smugglers and it’s meh. Idk. Once you go full speed it’s hard to go back to even a little bit slower, speed’s pretty addictive.

Wish I was an argonian, a clever alchemist and smugglers build with potion cooldown reduction would probably work well, but not having expedition up all the time sucks.

brandonv516

I'm skeptical of Eternal Hunt working effectively in BGs, but if the sustain can be worked right it might just be what I need for these jabby Templars.

fred4

brandonv516 wrote: »

I'm skeptical of Eternal Hunt working effectively in BGs, but if the sustain can be worked right it might just be what I need for these jabby Templars.

Yeah, I play mostly in CP, though my build has historically worked well in no CP, because it's very sustainy.

I follow Isth3reno1else on YouTube and he argues, probably correctly, that BGs are currently dominated by AOE. Not necessarily outright AOE spamming, but classes who have AOE burst, such as stamdens (Shalks) and DKs (Leap). He, therefore, doesn't rate NBs much, other than perhaps bombers in open world. NBs are typically single target, but they don't have the damage anymore to make that work and get in and out of a fight quickly enough.

I feared (not the skill) stamblades in previous patches. These days the nightblade that I fear, mag or stam, is much rarer. Especially the magblades can hit me with Merciless all they want, it usually doesn't do enough to secure a kill. Players like myself, the Caluurion ones, aren't much different, but they can be devastating in a duo or small group, coming out of nowhere with their readily accessible burst. I will engage players on my own, but would by lying if I didn't admit to scavenging on targets already engaged by a faction-mate. Playing in a duo with a really good partner is where I feel my build really shines. I've played with stam DKs and magplars who are able to survive without me helping them too much. It's really hard to find a partner with whom you gel, but if you both have that killer instinct, you tend to go after the same targets and magblade is nearly always ready to synchronise burst by using Caluurion and it's cheap ultimate.

The idea behind the stam (and mag) sustain and dodge rolling is that you can stay in a brawl and more frequently help your partner by attacking the player(s) targeting him. The speed and sustain is also about being in the right place to take opportunities and hit a target when they're low on health. Firing into a brawl from range, on the other hand, means your target can LoS you and you are a target to be picked off by other nightblades yourself. I really only do that when the brawl looks too packed and dangerous. So you mix it up. You can apply pressure from range with my build (but really no more than that), you can maneuver in cloak, waiting for the right moment to pounce, or you can survive for a limited time inside a brawl.

I'm mostly thinking of CP IC as I write this. I don't go into BGs. I suck at those. My build is good in unorganised fights. An organised (BG) group can be a nightmare due to the prevalence of AOE, but also just one of them using a detect potion can ruin your day.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I'm skeptical of Eternal Hunt working effectively in BGs, but if the sustain can be worked right it might just be what I need for these jabby Templars.

Yeah, I play mostly in CP, though my build has historically worked well in no CP, because it's very sustainy.

I follow Isth3reno1else on YouTube and he argues, probably correctly, that BGs are currently dominated by AOE. Not necessarily outright AOE spamming, but classes who have AOE burst, such as stamdens (Shalks) and DKs (Leap). He, therefore, doesn't rate NBs much, other than perhaps bombers in open world. NBs are typically single target, but they don't have the damage anymore to make that work and get in and out of a fight quickly enough.

I feared (not the skill) stamblades in previous patches. These days the nightblade that I fear, mag or stam, is much rarer. Especially the magblades can hit me with Merciless all they want, it usually doesn't do enough to secure a kill. Players like myself, the Caluurion ones, aren't much different, but they can be devastating in a duo or small group, coming out of nowhere with their readily accessible burst. I will engage players on my own, but would by lying if I didn't admit to scavenging on targets already engaged by a faction-mate. Playing in a duo with a really good partner is where I feel my build really shines. I've played with stam DKs and magplars who are able to survive without me helping them too much. It's really hard to find a partner with whom you gel, but if you both have that killer instinct, you tend to go after the same targets and magblade is nearly always ready to synchronise burst by using Caluurion and it's cheap ultimate.

The idea behind the stam (and mag) sustain and dodge rolling is that you can stay in a brawl and more frequently help your partner by attacking the player(s) targeting him. The speed and sustain is also about being in the right place to take opportunities and hit a target when they're low on health. Firing into a brawl from range, on the other hand, means your target can LoS you and you are a target to be picked off by other nightblades yourself. I really only do that when the brawl looks too packed and dangerous. So you mix it up. You can apply pressure from range with my build (but really no more than that), you can maneuver in cloak, waiting for the right moment to pounce, or you can survive for a limited time inside a brawl.

I'm mostly thinking of CP IC as I write this. I don't go into BGs. I suck at those. My build is good in unorganised fights. An organised (BG) group can be a nightmare due to the prevalence of AOE, but also just one of them using a detect potion can ruin your day.

You could say BGs are dominated by aoes, that’s one way of looking at it. I’d say they’re more dominated by high healing and ST burst.

Aoes are effective because there are pets everywhere, magsorc is still the most popular class. Plus people use engine guardian too as a way to counter ranged attacks and Templar sweeps since they’ve become more popular.

BGs are still dominated by stam and magsorcs, so the most popular combo is still dizzy - med - onslaught - executioner. I’ve been seeing more creative builds recently though, with DB and meteor to counter vamps.

One of the most effective ways of countering a magplar is immediately Ult as soon as they push. Magplars lack self only heals, people hit me hard as soon as I toppling to force me to kite back. If the team is pushing you’re forced to turn away from your team and HTD, because if you keep pushing your healing is likely to go on someone else and you’ll die.

Thinking about it one of the main advantages of aoes is targeting is a cluster ***. At least with an aoe you’re guaranteed to hit the person, say vs soul harvest hitting a pet.

BGs are fun too, I’d give them a go. If you’ve never done one before it’ll be all new players in bow/bow specs, or something else silly like that. Keep playing and push through the easy BGs and there are a lot of good players. In higher MMR BGs in a good game there’ll be less than a 200 point spread between all 3 teams.

Best time for a good game is during the day, quality drops at prime time, and is horrible on weekends. I’m not sure why, I think because during prime time a lot of people play cyrodiil.

fred4

You're right about the targeting. I face the same problem in IC. I usually have to be patient until I have a clear shot. It's also why I find Lotus Fan so much more effective than Concealed, even though Concealed stuns. Good luck hitting the right person with it. Lotus Fan means you're in Cloak, a short distance away, ready to jump the right person at the right moment with a guaranteed crit and, therefore, Caluurion proc.

In BGs my biggest problem is that you're playing against the clock. Patience isn't rewarded nor is staying alive, e.g. having a low death count. The latter is something that really irks me. Perhaps I need to look at the non-Deathmatch modes, but I don't get the feeling that any of those are particularly suited to cloaking nightblades either.

When Else talks about AOE, I think he indirectly talks about targeting too. It's perhaps most pronounced on magplar. Not only can you deal with pets that way, your attacks also do damage that help with the next target. Whenever I play magplar I find the playstyle stupid easy. To a certain degree you can rush in and rely on your AOE pressure doing so much damage, it protects you. Not saying it isn't fun, nor that surviving isn't ultimately a challenge, but then again BGs don't reward survival.

fred4

Another way to put it is that nightblade is quite surgical, whereas other classes fire broadsides. You build a templar (like I do) with Sweeps, Solar Barrage and Crescent Sweep, it basically does that all the time, whereas stamina classes have Dawnbreaker, Spin to Win, Leap, Shalks and magsorc, presumably, runs pets or kill steals.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Another way to put it is that nightblade is quite surgical, whereas other classes fire broadsides. You build a templar (like I do) with Sweeps, Solar Barrage and Crescent Sweep, it basically does that all the time, whereas stamina classes have Dawnbreaker, Spin to Win, Leap, Shalks and magsorc, presumably, runs pets or kill steals.

You sorta do need to be surgical on a magplar, or at least that’s how I play it. Sit back on my resto bar heavy attacking and healing while throwing out dark flares. When the time’s right light - toppling and go for a kill, mist out if things turn against me.

Warden’s a lot more that playstyle, but I get what you mean. Especially if you’re used to cyrodiil. The overly defensive teams never win, at some point you need to push to win a death match.

Iskiab

I was thinking, what do you guys think about using charging maneuvers for more speed?

I’d need to increase my stam pool, but darloc gives you 650 stam per second so equivalent to 1300 stam regen alone when you’re crouched.

So darloc, spinners and Zaan using tri stat food. Front bar spinners which would mean 2m-5L and back bar BRP resto:
Concealed 25%, Major expedition 25%, Minor Expedition 10%, 3x swift (15% with purple jewellery). I want to avoid the steed mundus as a vamp if possible and stick with lover’s. There’ll be the added bonus of being a group buff.

I like RAT, but putting it on one bar only is annoying because you rarely have the speed buff up or will be constantly switching bars.

fred4

I use Rapids on my low level geode farmers in place of RAT. You can probably guess what I'm gonna say: 8 seconds is too short. I don't recall having a "Wow, this is better" moment when slotting that skill. Of course in Cyro it's handy to have anyway. I don't replace RAT with Rapids on my full CP build, though. I replace Inner Light.

Iskiab

Well in BGs this is what I've been running with success. It's low/mid MMR, so I'll see some BG regular names but it's hard to tell if it's competitive or not yet because it's still mostly newer players or players on alts, Alliance ranks 10-20 or so. I'm still trying to grind out my alliance rank to 10 and leveling skills in BGs:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

Edit - oops, I always run radiating regen, rapid regen is unreliable.

Iskiab

As an aside, anyone else considering switching to stam next patch? I was looking at some stam builds and it'll be hard to compete with 5m with all these new sets with huge weapon/spell damage.

Looking at something like this, damage/burst from stam will be really up:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=211140

No CP-stam builds will hit just as hard or harder as CP mag builds.

SRASinister

Iskiab wrote: »

Well in BGs this is what I've been running with success. It's low/mid MMR, so I'll see some BG regular names but it's hard to tell if it's competitive or not yet because it's still mostly newer players or players on alts, Alliance ranks 10-20 or so. I'm still trying to grind out my alliance rank to 10 and leveling skills in BGs:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

Edit - oops, I always run radiating regen, rapid regen is unreliable.

Just wondering why the Health Offering and Healing Orb on that back bar? You could run retreating maneuvers I guess though it will be hard to spam it. You also could use essence of speed/invis or another pot for major expedition such as using roguish droughts as trash pots. I personally just use RATs because I can spam it and because it has so much fit into one skill with getting rid of snares, increasing crit damage, and major expedition. You could also use the other morph of RATs since it lasts longer. My buddy used to run refreshing path, or would he would use Jorvuld's guidance with some other form of major expedition. I just wish cripple or double take gave it again.

Iskiab

SRASinister wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Well in BGs this is what I've been running with success. It's low/mid MMR, so I'll see some BG regular names but it's hard to tell if it's competitive or not yet because it's still mostly newer players or players on alts, Alliance ranks 10-20 or so. I'm still trying to grind out my alliance rank to 10 and leveling skills in BGs:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

Edit - oops, I always run radiating regen, rapid regen is unreliable.

Just wondering why the Health Offering and Healing Orb on that back bar? You could run retreating maneuvers I guess though it will be hard to spam it. You also could use essence of speed/invis or another pot for major expedition such as using roguish droughts as trash pots. I personally just use RATs because I can spam it and because it has so much fit into one skill with getting rid of snares, increasing crit damage, and major expedition. You could also use the other morph of RATs since it lasts longer. My buddy used to run refreshing path, or would he would use Jorvuld's guidance with some other form of major expedition. I just wish cripple or double take gave it again.

Oh, the reason why I use healthy offering and orbs is I usually split healing and damage. I've found it's almost a requirement solo queueing because new players don't heal themselves enough, you have to save them from themselves.

Refreshing is a waste imo because the healing's poor. I tried the other morph of rat and didn't like the cast time, it slows you down while casting it. I'll probably just stick with RAT but not change my build until after the patch, I don't want to switch to something and then have them change it.

Orbs actually aren't bad if people use the synergy. Them just floating around is just as much HPS as radiating regen, issue is new players don't hit synergies which would help my self healing a lot. Noobs will be noobs.

Here's a BG from this morning, I moreso heal and then switch to damage when the team is pushing. So heal to counter enemy pushes and then help push back:
https://imgur.com/ieVyEsK

SRASinister

Iskiab wrote: »

SRASinister wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Well in BGs this is what I've been running with success. It's low/mid MMR, so I'll see some BG regular names but it's hard to tell if it's competitive or not yet because it's still mostly newer players or players on alts, Alliance ranks 10-20 or so. I'm still trying to grind out my alliance rank to 10 and leveling skills in BGs:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=207332

Edit - oops, I always run radiating regen, rapid regen is unreliable.

Just wondering why the Health Offering and Healing Orb on that back bar? You could run retreating maneuvers I guess though it will be hard to spam it. You also could use essence of speed/invis or another pot for major expedition such as using roguish droughts as trash pots. I personally just use RATs because I can spam it and because it has so much fit into one skill with getting rid of snares, increasing crit damage, and major expedition. You could also use the other morph of RATs since it lasts longer. My buddy used to run refreshing path, or would he would use Jorvuld's guidance with some other form of major expedition. I just wish cripple or double take gave it again.

Oh, the reason why I use healthy offering and orbs is I usually split healing and damage. I've found it's almost a requirement solo queueing because new players don't heal themselves enough, you have to save them from themselves.

Refreshing is a waste imo because the healing's poor. I tried the other morph of rat and didn't like the cast time, it slows you down while casting it. I'll probably just stick with RAT but not change my build until after the patch, I don't want to switch to something and then have them change it.

Orbs actually aren't bad if people use the synergy. Them just floating around is just as much HPS as radiating regen, issue is new players don't hit synergies which would help my self healing a lot. Noobs will be noobs.

Here's a BG from this morning, I moreso heal and then switch to damage when the team is pushing. So heal to counter enemy pushes and then help push back:
https://imgur.com/ieVyEsK

Yeah I kind of figured that's why you had them slotted but I wasn't sure. You are way more of a team player compared to me slotting team heals. I just use rapid regen for people if they need heals.

Iskiab

Yea, only problem is a lot of players tunnel as soon as they get some healing. In beginner games it’s typical to have half your team trying to fight one group and someone else fighting the other at the same time. Most stamina do nothing but fight in an undisciplined way until they die, then charge right out again.

Looking at the stamblade build I posted, I think people having trouble with stamblade is a L2P issue. I think I’m going to switch my magblade to a stamblade. Cloak - snipe hitting a 16k tooltip in no CP is ridiculous. Rally being a 20k heal max is silly too, I think most Stamblades are stuck in 2018 and are wearing divines or some nonsense, they put a magblade to shame. Then switch to 2h/BRP DW against heavy DK and Warden groups. A 25k max executioner tooltip is pretty silly too.

Stam self healing is about to be out of control, I don’t see mag staying competitive.

Edit - so for those who only play CP pvp, here's a CP version for comparison, though I'm not familiar enough with stamblade to know if it would have all the tools you'd need. Likely 3x swift jewellery would be better.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=211215
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=211232

Metemsycosis

Meteor focus aim cloak SA plus merciless execute is one my favorite kill combos RN.
14k, 14k, 18k tool tips.

I love reapers mark. And use dot poison with detect to help with other nbs. Also don't sleep on power extraction. One of the few ways to make use of ulti gen.

Iskiab

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Meteor focus aim cloak SA plus merciless execute is one my favorite kill combos RN.
14k, 14k, 18k tool tips.

I love reapers mark. And use dot poison with detect to help with other nbs. Also don't sleep on power extraction. One of the few ways to make use of ulti gen.

Yea, I looked at surprise attack but think dizzy would be better, especially with the snare.

I basicly just adapted my magblade darloc to stam so like concealed for the sneak speed. 3x swift plus concealed is 43% speed, maybe add a dodge roll sometimes, IDK. I’d have to play with it. I’m not sure which abilities take you out of crouch/stealth so it’s hard to theorycraft something good. Only needing 3 attacks to do damage (dizzy, executioner and onslaught) or back bar snipe creates just gives so much more room for passives and utility.

I was thinking rat instead of reaper’s mark too, I’m not sure. Luckily I’ve been leveling S&B and DW on my magblade, just need to do 2H and bow now. I went reaper’s just for the assassination passive, and I’m not sure which execute is better the NB or 2H one.

Metemsycosis

I think nb execute is better as a part of a combo. But 2h and passives are superior imo

Iskiab

Yea, think I’m switching to stamblade. Looking at it in CP pvp the expected value of resolving vigor is almost 4k per second, which includes halving the healing from battle spirit.

I’m not sure how to account for tankiness in the editor, but think (from stealth) dizzy - dizzy - Incap - executioner spam will finish most people off. Using surprise attack costs a GCD for the stun, so you’re GCD locked for a second and people can break free and dodge roll. If you use: dizzy - dizzy the damage/stun is at the end of the GCD so I think it’ll be easier to get incap off. If not dizzy - med attack - incap should do the trick, a medium attack will stun without consuming a GCD.

I think I’ll just use relentless for the mitigation or a ranged finisher, I’m not sure. Combining speed, high healing, and minor protection plus the relentless mitigation should make me tanky.

I think next patch will be rough for mag.

Metemsycosis

Yeah and there's bloodspawn, nord race to consider, not to mention 2 heavy reinforced for cp. Potato back bar if you dont have masters bow. (I don't 😞)

I don't recommend it any more but i used to espouse dw/snb builds bc of how powerful vigor + shade/cloak really is. I'm still on stamblade now and tho tough still so much fun and a lot of it is bc i can still play high flying acrobatic with a ton of risk like I would on my magblade but there's vigor to keep me 'in the fight' and secure kills, something rapid regen doesn't grant me unless I'm in heavy armor. MYM scored me a few very sweet clean 1vxs and uber long kill streaks and it revealed to me some of the strengths of the class, namely there's still some flexibility. Leeching strikes and mirage for example are two skills I slip into my rotation to add more sustain/tank and I am usually pleased with the results, tho not my normal load out. At one point i was only running 2800 wd and focused more on lining up big chain combos instead of stacking wd and hoping my opponent was unprepared for the huge onslaught merciless combo.

Dizzying swing from cloak or stealth is really fun and evil, or it used to be. One of my first gank builds ever was just about that 123 dead combo and in some ways crit and damage have never been higher so I bet it will be good. In bgs ehhh. Not sure...