MagBlade Theorycrafting Changes Thread

Iskiab

I haven’t logged onto PTS yet, has anyone checked whether the cost increase of vampire increases the cost of ults and dodge roll? I know Kena and NMA do.

Langeston

Iskiab wrote: »

I haven’t logged onto PTS yet, has anyone checked whether the cost increase of vampire increases the cost of ults and dodge roll? I know Kena and NMA do.

Definitely ultimates. Didn't check dodge roll, but I imagine it probably does.

thankyourat

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

With the overall defensive nerfs to the game and depending on how good blood frenzy is you might be able to come out of stealth and one shot a bunch of players as a magblade. You might be able to add a sustain set as well to help compensate for the sustain nerf of being a vampire. I know currently on live I run 3 damage sets on a dark elf So my regen is only like 1400 and I still manage to sustain pretty well as long as I use ele drain and siphoning attacks. Vampire will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build or even a gank build though. On live I regularly hit over 15k bows so with a big enough damage increase there will be no way for a player to survive.

I do see some potential for vamp magblades. Magblade in general may be better next patch. As a class magblade isn’t really bad. The reason it feels so bad is because it doesn’t fit in the tank meta. If next patch will be a damage meta magblade may have a place in it. Magblade gank builds are going to be very strong I can see that right now. More traditional magblades I’m taking a wait and see approach.

Iskiab

thankyourat wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

With the overall defensive nerfs to the game and depending on how good blood frenzy is you might be able to come out of stealth and one shot a bunch of players as a magblade. You might be able to add a sustain set as well to help compensate for the sustain nerf of being a vampire. I know currently on live I run 3 damage sets on a dark elf So my regen is only like 1400 and I still manage to sustain pretty well as long as I use ele drain and siphoning attacks. Vampire will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build or even a gank build though. On live I regularly hit over 15k bows so with a big enough damage increase there will be no way for a player to survive.

I do see some potential for vamp magblades. Magblade in general may be better next patch. As a class magblade isn’t really bad. The reason it feels so bad is because it doesn’t fit in the tank meta. If next patch will be a damage meta magblade may have a place in it. Magblade gank builds are going to be very strong I can see that right now. More traditional magblades I’m taking a wait and see approach.

Yea, there’s a ton of pen on some of the sets out there, plus with the reduced healing it’ll be tough to be tanky.

I think maybe potentates 2 piece and BRP DW will be favourites, but that will only help with brawling.

I think a lot of people will go sorc or hybrid builds with that set that increases damage with no crits, I’m thinking of trying it out.

It’s hard to say how things will pan out really. There’ll be the typical whining until the meta settles I think. There’s a lot of pvp focused changes.

I’m going to try out stage 4 vampire, could be fun.

Langeston

thankyourat wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

With the overall defensive nerfs to the game and depending on how good blood frenzy is you might be able to come out of stealth and one shot a bunch of players as a magblade. You might be able to add a sustain set as well to help compensate for the sustain nerf of being a vampire. I know currently on live I run 3 damage sets on a dark elf So my regen is only like 1400 and I still manage to sustain pretty well as long as I use ele drain and siphoning attacks. Vampire will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build or even a gank build though. On live I regularly hit over 15k bows so with a big enough damage increase there will be no way for a player to survive.

I do see some potential for vamp magblades. Magblade in general may be better next patch. As a class magblade isn’t really bad. The reason it feels so bad is because it doesn’t fit in the tank meta. If next patch will be a damage meta magblade may have a place in it. Magblade gank builds are going to be very strong I can see that right now. More traditional magblades I’m taking a wait and see approach.

If you can sustain 1152-1728 health per second with the 20% upcoming healing nerf on the squishiest class with indisputably the worst healing in the game, then maybe you can use Blood Frenzy to eke out enough damage to kill someone. (Personally, I wouldn't be able to do it.) With 1400 regen though, I have a difficult time believing that any of your class abilities will be viable. Swallow Soul was already too expensive — it simply will not work as a spammable any more if you are a vampire. On your Dunmer, it will cost you 2970 per cast.

As far as vampirism "will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build," I actually think it will do the complete opposite — I just don't see how a "cloak-based" build can work with vampirism. On your toon (with no cost reduction sets/glyphs) the cost for cloak is 4158.

Iskiab

Langeston wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

With the overall defensive nerfs to the game and depending on how good blood frenzy is you might be able to come out of stealth and one shot a bunch of players as a magblade. You might be able to add a sustain set as well to help compensate for the sustain nerf of being a vampire. I know currently on live I run 3 damage sets on a dark elf So my regen is only like 1400 and I still manage to sustain pretty well as long as I use ele drain and siphoning attacks. Vampire will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build or even a gank build though. On live I regularly hit over 15k bows so with a big enough damage increase there will be no way for a player to survive.

I do see some potential for vamp magblades. Magblade in general may be better next patch. As a class magblade isn’t really bad. The reason it feels so bad is because it doesn’t fit in the tank meta. If next patch will be a damage meta magblade may have a place in it. Magblade gank builds are going to be very strong I can see that right now. More traditional magblades I’m taking a wait and see approach.

If you can sustain 1152-1728 health per second with the 20% upcoming healing nerf on the squishiest class with indisputably the worst healing in the game, then maybe you can use Blood Frenzy to eke out enough damage to kill someone. (Personally, I wouldn't be able to do it.) With 1400 regen though, I have a difficult time believing that any of your class abilities will be viable. Swallow Soul was already too expensive — it simply will not work as a spammable any more if you are a vampire. On your Dunmer, it will cost you 2970 per cast.

As far as vampirism "will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build," I actually think it will do the complete opposite — I just don't see how a "cloak-based" build can work with vampirism. On your toon (with no cost reduction sets/glyphs) the cost for cloak is 4158.

Yea, that looks astronomically high. Since pen will be easier to get maybe 7L will work lol, the max stats would be horrible.

I’m thinking I’ll keep Darloc but only have it on my back bar. It’s a tough set to work with because it’s medium though, if it was light it’d be perfect:

Darloc back bar + New set front bar + mythic speed item + 3 piece max mag set

fred4

WacArnold wrote: »

Is there some kind of glitch with cloak? Sometimes im cloaked and people still seem to see me, not sure if its a detect i didnt see the icon for it. Feels like this has happened before at first i thought i just got caught but i swear this last time i was stealthed and some gap closed me.

You don't get to see the detection icon from an attacker. Basically: Sentry set has unlimited range and maybe people are slowly catching on.

fred4

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

One way to get Cloak sustain up is to run Barrier on the Cloak / back bar for the +10% regen passive rather than the ubiquitous Temporal Guard.

fred4

I use 7x light as it is. I think NB is too crit-centric for that +25% damage, but no crit set to work. Maybe only in no CP and/or with procs, such as Caluurion + Zaan. I think opening with Concealed from Cloak and wearing Stuhn needs to be investigated. Basically Concealed -> Soul Harvest with Balorgh and Stuhn could mitigate practically all resistance. It will also make procs, such as Caluurion and Zaan hit really hard against tanky targets. The flipside is that resistances may become less relevant and people may defend in different ways. For example Pirate Skeleton appears to be viable again. I gave up on trying to make Concealed work. Stunning the correct player in a brawl is hard and an alert player, especially a stamsorc or a pulsing templar (Solar Barrage) or warden (Icy Blast or whatever it's called) tends to counter you.

Langeston

fred4 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

One way to get Cloak sustain up is to run Barrier on the Cloak / back bar for the +10% regen passive rather than the ubiquitous Temporal Guard.

Yeah, that's actually something I've been doing for quite a while now. I used to run Purge on my back bar too at one point, until I switched to Siphoning Attacks. This vampire change has completely thrown a monkey wrench into my build. Literally every class is better suited for vampirism now, with the better sustain & self-healing.

I don't understand how ZOS can possibly think this class is even close to being on the same level as the others.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

I use 7x light as it is. I think NB is too crit-centric for that +25% damage, but no crit set to work. Maybe only in no CP and/or with procs, such as Caluurion + Zaan. I think opening with Concealed from Cloak and wearing Stuhn needs to be investigated. Basically Concealed -> Soul Harvest with Balorgh and Stuhn could mitigate practically all resistance. It will also make procs, such as Caluurion and Zaan hit really hard against tanky targets. The flipside is that resistances may become less relevant and people may defend in different ways. For example Pirate Skeleton appears to be viable again. I gave up on trying to make Concealed work. Stunning the correct player in a brawl is hard and an alert player, especially a stamsorc or a pulsing templar (Solar Barrage) or warden (Icy Blast or whatever it's called) tends to counter you.

Yea, with so many melee counters to cloak I don’t think concealed will work. It might even be worse post patch because BRP DW has been buffed.

When I looked at the new sets and changes the first thing I thought about was armour won’t be that good. Potentates will still be decent though.

Barrier is also only good if you’re already high Mag regen. Otherwise temporal guard is better.

brandonv516

Langeston wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

One way to get Cloak sustain up is to run Barrier on the Cloak / back bar for the +10% regen passive rather than the ubiquitous Temporal Guard.

Yeah, that's actually something I've been doing for quite a while now. I used to run Purge on my back bar too at one point, until I switched to Siphoning Attacks. This vampire change has completely thrown a monkey wrench into my build. Literally every class is better suited for vampirism now, with the better sustain & self-healing.

I don't understand how ZOS can possibly think this class is even close to being on the same level as the others.

It's not. They have balanced NBs based on bombing and ganking.

And they don't look like they are willing to help out those players that don't play either of those playstyles.

thankyourat

Langeston wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So what are you guys thinking about the PTS changes?

TLDR of changes
- impenetrable nerf
- defensive monster set nerfs
- hilariously another NB nerf, but it’s for a niche setup so 99.99% of NBs won’t give a damn, but a nerf nonetheless
- Stam arena weapon sets buffed (BRP DW will be OP)
- Mag weapon sets meh, but there are some maelstrom weapon sets that look like they could be good.
- Mythic items all have pvp applications and will be BiS

Overall? IDK, with crit resistance down plus light armour providing essentially 0 mitigation, maybe crit builds will open up? What do you guys think?

Oh and with mythic items all being 1 piece items, I’m pretty sure the best setups will be 3 willpower + mythic + 2 5 piece sets switching between them based on your weapons. Need a better name for this setup. 5-3-5? Idk

ZOS has broken my build in so many ways there's no way I can work around it. They're not getting another penny from me.

[edit] This isn't an emotional knee-jerk reaction either. I've been on the PTS since it went live trying to piece things together.

What were you running that was effected?

Vampirism is my primary pain point. It's completely non-viable for a magblade past stage 1, and even at stage 1 NB skills likely cost too much. Dark Stalker was the way I made cloak work before. I used sneak quite a bit to help offset the costs of Shadowy Disguise, which is an expensive skill considering half the time it doesn't even work.

It almost seems like the new skill line was designed to make it even harder on NBs that use cloak. Shadowy disguise costs 3553 magicka at stage 2 vampirism (where you need to be if you want to use the Strikes From Shadows passive). It's 3931 at stage 4 — and this is all with the -7% Breton passive.

Swallow Soul costs 2673 now at stage 2 on the build I was using — at stage 4 it's 2943. It's a joke.

How is the class with the worst healing and [arguably] the worst sustain supposed to play as a vampire now? How do are you supposed to heal, Exhilarating Drain?

LMAO at all the people saying that the new vampirism was going to be a buff for magblades.

[edit] NMA is one of the sets I run btw, but I only run it on my front bar so the cost increase was not reflected on the Cloak tooltip.

With the overall defensive nerfs to the game and depending on how good blood frenzy is you might be able to come out of stealth and one shot a bunch of players as a magblade. You might be able to add a sustain set as well to help compensate for the sustain nerf of being a vampire. I know currently on live I run 3 damage sets on a dark elf So my regen is only like 1400 and I still manage to sustain pretty well as long as I use ele drain and siphoning attacks. Vampire will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build or even a gank build though. On live I regularly hit over 15k bows so with a big enough damage increase there will be no way for a player to survive.

I do see some potential for vamp magblades. Magblade in general may be better next patch. As a class magblade isn’t really bad. The reason it feels so bad is because it doesn’t fit in the tank meta. If next patch will be a damage meta magblade may have a place in it. Magblade gank builds are going to be very strong I can see that right now. More traditional magblades I’m taking a wait and see approach.

If you can sustain 1152-1728 health per second with the 20% upcoming healing nerf on the squishiest class with indisputably the worst healing in the game, then maybe you can use Blood Frenzy to eke out enough damage to kill someone. (Personally, I wouldn't be able to do it.) With 1400 regen though, I have a difficult time believing that any of your class abilities will be viable. Swallow Soul was already too expensive — it simply will not work as a spammable any more if you are a vampire. On your Dunmer, it will cost you 2970 per cast.

As far as vampirism "will pretty much force you into a cloak based magblade build," I actually think it will do the complete opposite — I just don't see how a "cloak-based" build can work with vampirism. On your toon (with no cost reduction sets/glyphs) the cost for cloak is 4158.

I think it’s going to depend on how much damage you are actually doing to your opponent. If you are hitting everyone with 20k bows then your sustain isn’t going to matter as much. I think I will probably have to add a sustain set. Currently I don’t use any. Vamp might also just be impossible to sustain. The reason I see potential is that I think most players will be squishy next patch. So you can use blood frenzy sort of like a clever alchemist proc when it’s time to burst players down.

When I say cloak based build I don’t mean spamming cloak I mean builds that use cloak to reposition to be able to fight in a place where you will take less damage. Cloak will also be stronger in the current meta because it will be more about damage avoidance due to all the nerfs to healing and defense.

With everyone being less tanky you may not need vampire at all either. Magblade might just be in a overall better position.

fred4

I don't think everyone will be less tanky, though. I think the nerfs to tankiness are relatively mild and the nerfs to healing will be absorbed fairly comfortably by classes that have / had good healing in the first place. I think overall people may choose to be less tanky, because of the new counters to armor, such as Stuhn, but who knows.

Thrassian Stranglers may suit shielding builds. With judicious use of Shadow Image, a stand-up non-cloaking magblade may actually be one of the better classes to deal with the increased damage. Hard to say.

Vermintide

So it's like ZOS specifically set out to nerf everything I actually liked about my character, LOL.

Oh you like being a badass evil fire mage? Let's take away that racial bonus and also the staff perks, so none of that works for you any more. Oh you like being a vampire? Let's make vampire into the complete opposite of what it was and force you to either cure it or stay level 0 if you want to avoid being horribly gimped. Oh you like having stealth and mobility to make up for your complete squishiness, lack of healing, and generally difficult rotation? Let's just make that next to impossible.

I really don't see how magblade is going to work as anything other than a [snip] sorc next patch. I really hate being the person to QQ about changes but jesus. They really have been merciless on this, just one thing after another.

[edited for circumventing profanity filter]

Langeston

Vermintide wrote: »

So it's like ZOS specifically set out to nerf everything I actually liked about my character, LOL.

Oh you like being a badass evil fire mage? Let's take away that racial bonus and also the staff perks, so none of that works for you any more. Oh you like being a vampire? Let's make vampire into the complete opposite of what it was and force you to either cure it or stay level 0 if you want to avoid being horribly gimped. Oh you like having stealth and mobility to make up for your complete squishiness, lack of healing, and generally difficult rotation? Let's just make that next to impossible.

I really don't see how magblade is going to work as anything other than a [snip] sorc next patch. I really hate being the person to QQ about changes but jesus. They really have been merciless on this, just one thing after another.

The last 2 BG matches I played had 7 and then 8 sorcs — roughly 10 to 14 pets each, not including the constant Atronachs being dropped every 5 seconds. BGs are complete garbage right now and they're only going to get worse.

brandonv516

Langeston wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

So it's like ZOS specifically set out to nerf everything I actually liked about my character, LOL.

Oh you like being a badass evil fire mage? Let's take away that racial bonus and also the staff perks, so none of that works for you any more. Oh you like being a vampire? Let's make vampire into the complete opposite of what it was and force you to either cure it or stay level 0 if you want to avoid being horribly gimped. Oh you like having stealth and mobility to make up for your complete squishiness, lack of healing, and generally difficult rotation? Let's just make that next to impossible.

I really don't see how magblade is going to work as anything other than a shittier sorc next patch. I really hate being the person to QQ about changes but jesus. They really have been merciless on this, just one thing after another.

The last 2 BG matches I played had 7 and then 8 sorcs — roughly 10 to 14 pets each, not including the constant Atronachs being dropped every 5 seconds. BGs are complete garbage right now and they're only going to get worse.

Yeah I don't see any reason to stick around this patch since they've already confirmed no class balancing is coming.

I might come back to see if any of the bugs fix themselves (i.e. Cloak being broken by everything) or to simply see how more broken things have progressed.

Other classes just bore me and the new features in this DLC don't excite me enough.

Iskiab

Langeston wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

So it's like ZOS specifically set out to nerf everything I actually liked about my character, LOL.

Oh you like being a badass evil fire mage? Let's take away that racial bonus and also the staff perks, so none of that works for you any more. Oh you like being a vampire? Let's make vampire into the complete opposite of what it was and force you to either cure it or stay level 0 if you want to avoid being horribly gimped. Oh you like having stealth and mobility to make up for your complete squishiness, lack of healing, and generally difficult rotation? Let's just make that next to impossible.

I really don't see how magblade is going to work as anything other than a shittier sorc next patch. I really hate being the person to QQ about changes but jesus. They really have been merciless on this, just one thing after another.

The last 2 BG matches I played had 7 and then 8 sorcs — roughly 10 to 14 pets each, not including the constant Atronachs being dropped every 5 seconds. BGs are complete garbage right now and they're only going to get worse.

Yea, there are a lot of sorcs around. When there are a lot I usually hop on my MagWarden.

I looked at vampire, looks interesting but I don’t think it’ll mesh too well with magblade.

What makes it difficult is NB passives are tied to putting NB abilities on your bar and using them.

Major resolve ward - need to use a shadow ability
Magic floor (max mag) - need to slot a siphoning ability on that bar
Ult gen - need to use a siphoning ability or slot soul harvest, soul harvest is also suboptimal outside dueling

Magtemplar and MagWarden will make good stage 4 vamps I think, think I’ll stay at stage 1 on my magblade. Magblades might be stronger gankers though.

Deathlord92

I was thinking about using 5 bright throat and 5 crafty alfiq on my magblade for pvp is it viable 🤔

JayKwellen

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I was thinking about using 5 bright throat and 5 crafty alfiq on my magblade for pvp is it viable 🤔

It is yes if that's the playstyle youre going for. Crafty + Necro is also a good combo if you're trying to going all out max mag.

Jeezye

So has anyone come up with some interesting build ideas yet? I think the vamp skills definitlity open up for some theory crafting.

First off increased damage after leaving cloak tied with masters destro can open insane burst combos from cloak. This is not so much my playstyle but its surely gonna hurt.

Also I really like the vamp ult with the increased stat pools, which synergize well with dark cloak healing and max mag of nbs. So for a tanky vamp build I'd try to opt for high stat pools and high mag for damage, which seemed to work best for me anyways. Maybe heavy for some extra hp with trinue jewelry will push you to 40-50k hp while in vamp ult.

Also the vamp spammable syngerzies well with low crit high hp build - maybe adding pariah for extra tankyness while below 50% hp.

just some thoughts thrown in

Iskiab

Yea, I’ll go stage 4 and play with it just to try it because it’s new. I have some ideas but haven’t theorycrafted much. I haven’t been playing much these days.

I’m thinking the self heal ability from vampire (Invig drain whatever) won’t be enough self healing. It’s not good on live outside PvE, so doubt it’ll work in pvp.

That will rule out using the health cost spammable, with reduced healing this patch I think pure ranged plus speed builds will stay the way to go.

OWLTHEMAD

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I was thinking about using 5 bright throat and 5 crafty alfiq on my magblade for pvp is it viable 🤔

Absolutely! I wreck with that settup. I like triple swift jewelry, weapon/spell damage back bar weapon and an infused disease front bar for decentish damage and minor defile.

I also run either steed or lover depending on content.

If your comfortable with your speed infused or bloodthirsty is probably best bet for jewelry.

fred4

Jeezye wrote: »

So has anyone come up with some interesting build ideas yet?

For me it's become about whether a patch still enables my playstyle. I know what I like at this stage. Opportunistic, reactive, fast, sustainy characters. Only the means of getting there varies. My nightblade fits it. Funnily enough my stam DK also fits it better than other stam classes on account of Take Flight, which I find extremely opportunistic compared to, say, the warden burst. It's due to the fact that Take Flight is both a gap closer and CC as well as hitting so hard. Stamden has more burst whereas a simple Leap / execute combo is easier to pull off and you can cast around, looking for a suitable target, much like a nightblade would.

So far so good. I love the new and improved Zaan and, yes, the greater proc chance and added pressure, if people don't get out of it, feels like an improvement to me. I have, thus far, farmed the Wild Hunt ring. If you know my builds, you'd think I had enough speed already. I was sceptical about using that ring in PvP, but I love it. Streaking, overloading sorcs have been the bane of my existence. With that ring I feel I can outmanoeuvre them better. It's early days and it's always so hard to tell whether the players you run into are as good as the ones who gave you trouble in the past, but like I said: So far, so good.

I'm not sure what build pattern will end up being best. For now I am using Caluurion destro, Skooma Smuggler resto, 3x Caluurion on jewelry / body, 4x Skooma Smuggler on body, 1x Wild Hunt and 2x Zaan. Skooma Smuggler? Overkill, right? As it turns out the ring complements it. +45% speed outside of combat. Drink your potion when entering combat: Still +45% speed from the combination. You need a back bar set for this build pattern. Instead of Skooma Smuggler, you might use Lich, Clever Alchemist, Spell Strategist...

Vietfox

Jeezye wrote: »

So has anyone come up with some interesting build ideas yet? I think the vamp skills definitlity open up for some theory crafting.

@Jeezye
Since i'm not gonna buy Greymoor because i don't thik ZOS deserves money from pvpers i made this build with old sets which have been changed in this new chapter: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=239449

These are the numbers that suit my playstyle and i'm really looking forward to test it.

Jeezye

Vietfox wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

So has anyone come up with some interesting build ideas yet? I think the vamp skills definitlity open up for some theory crafting.

@Jeezye
Since i'm not gonna buy Greymoor because i don't thik ZOS deserves money from pvpers i made this build with old sets which have been changed in this new chapter: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=239449

These are the numbers that suit my playstyle and i'm really looking forward to test it.

I didn't even bother downloading yet lol.

Commet on your build, I don't really see the benefit of going cloak without speed and with high healing through malu. Amber is amazing now, especially on nightblade.

I think either go for a high burst from stealth build or going tanky with vamp ult are the ways to go. With the current state of pvp and magblade, its just probably not worth the hastle to invest time and money to figure something out..

Vietfox

Jeezye wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

So has anyone come up with some interesting build ideas yet? I think the vamp skills definitlity open up for some theory crafting.

@Jeezye
Since i'm not gonna buy Greymoor because i don't thik ZOS deserves money from pvpers i made this build with old sets which have been changed in this new chapter: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=239449

These are the numbers that suit my playstyle and i'm really looking forward to test it.

Commet on your build, I don't really see the benefit of going cloak without speed and with high healing through malu. Amber is amazing now, especially on nightblade.

I don't use cloak that much tbh and i'm usually at melee range, that's why i picked Malu..the only thing i'm missing in this build is the gap closer. I might go back to DW and Lotus fan.

Jeezye wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Jeezye wrote: »

So has anyone come up with some interesting build ideas yet? I think the vamp skills definitlity open up for some theory crafting.

@Jeezye
Since i'm not gonna buy Greymoor because i don't thik ZOS deserves money from pvpers i made this build with old sets which have been changed in this new chapter: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=239449

These are the numbers that suit my playstyle and i'm really looking forward to test it.

With the current state of pvp and magblade, its just probably not worth the hastle to invest time and money to figure something out..

Yeah, i think i'll mostly play as magDK and magwarden in this patch, i'm having so much fun with them. Plus magDK will be good against all these people trying out the new vamp skill line.

Deathlord92

Anyone tried the new vampire on magblade in pvp and what do you think 🤔