[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Supernatural

Stamina Nightblade main here.

I would really like to see a small adjustment to Grim Focus and its morphs. Not very long ago, the skill was changed quite a bit, and one of the changes was that you'd now lose all your grim focus stacks upon exiting combat. Whoever thought of this did not take into consideration how this change would affect the skill's performance in Maelstrom and Dragonstar Arena. So pretty much every time white portals spawn in betweeen rounds, all your stacks are gone, which means that you cannot activate your spectral bow most of the time. Most players do not give a damn about this, but as a player who goes for the highest of scores I can say that this is extremely annoying, as I cannot get the most out of the skill. So what I suggest is to add a 4-5 second delay to the disappearance of the grim focus stacks. It is a very simple fix that will not really affect PvP in any way.

Baristote

As a PvP player who cares for PvErs, Pain points are:

- Snares when magblade because outdated purge removes only 2 effects when you have 15 effects (Dots, poisons, procs, debuffs, mark, curse....) inflicted by only 2 ennemies. So when you have all these debuffs and cannot cloak, you just a snared dude with no escape, being zerged.
=> make purge clean 5 or more effects. This will not affect PvE


- assassin ultimate too strong :
=> make it do damage based on ultimate number. If you have 70 it will do less damage. If you have 250 it will do actual damage. Still a burst move, but not spammable.
This will not affect PvE because you'll still have 20% more damages when execute phase

- Soul harvest is pve morph... for magickas
- => As it's a pve morph, i think NBs need the passive effect so i don't really know what to do with that.... PvE wins.

- concealed weapon's speed buff is really nice, but surprise attack's debuff is better.
=> More base damages to concealed weapon ?
PvE will be happy

- When stamina based, your DPS skill also debuff armor and you can buff damages with rally, When magicka based, you need to cast magic resist debuff skill and you need to drink a pot, cast entropy or sap to buff yourself.
=> Just finally add a major sorcery buff for all in a skill line
PvE will probably have to drink potions because they can't afford to slot the skill in their rotation.

- Shadow image is BiS in PvP, there is no reason for using the other morph.
=> Dark shade has potential to be the cool pet skill, he just need a lot more damages and a cooldown skill that debuff or CC. And also a badass shadow skin (Nocturne's homies) and not this poor forsworn dude.
PvE won't use it unless it's a tank NB for maim.

- Shadow ultimate is useless. little AoE, can't move, weird.
=> Make it a group defense ultimate (like barrier), with the possibility to make your friends stealth with synergy. Something more in touch with the excited playstyle of this game. Stationary things are only good if they do tons of damage or if they silence people.
PvE won't be mad i guess.

Even with those changes, a detect pot or magelight would still be enough to hardcounter the nightblade's mobility/escape and it would still be free kill for zerglings.

BohnT

Baristote wrote: »

As a PvP player who cares for PvErs, Pain points are:

- Snares when magblade because outdated purge removes only 2 effects when you have 15 effects (Dots, poisons, procs, debuffs, mark, curse....) inflicted by only 2 ennemies. So when you have all these debuffs and cannot cloak, you just a snared dude with no escape, being zerged.
=> make purge clean 5 or more effects. This will not affect PvE


- assassin ultimate too strong :
=> make it do damage based on ultimate number. If you have 70 it will do less damage. If you have 250 it will do actual damage. Still a burst move, but not spammable.
This will not affect PvE because you'll still have 20% more damages when execute phase

- Soul harvest is pve morph... for magickas
- => As it's a pve morph, i think NBs need the passive effect so i don't really know what to do with that.... PvE wins.

- concealed weapon's speed buff is really nice, but surprise attack's debuff is better.
=> More base damages to concealed weapon ?
PvE will be happy

- When stamina based, your DPS skill also debuff armor and you can buff damages with rally, When magicka based, you need to cast magic resist debuff skill and you need to drink a pot, cast entropy or sap to buff yourself.
=> Just finally add a major sorcery buff for all in a skill line
PvE will probably have to drink potions because they can't afford to slot the skill in their rotation.

- Shadow image is BiS in PvP, there is no reason for using the other morph.
=> Dark shade has potential to be the cool pet skill, he just need a lot more damages and a cooldown skill that debuff or CC. And also a badass shadow skin (Nocturne's homies) and not this poor forsworn dude.
PvE won't use it unless it's a tank NB for maim.

- Shadow ultimate is useless. little AoE, can't move, weird.
=> Make it a group defense ultimate (like barrier), with the possibility to make your friends stealth with synergy. Something more in touch with the excited playstyle of this game. Stationary things are only good if they do tons of damage or if they silence people.
PvE won't be mad i guess.

Even with those changes, a detect pot or magelight would still be enough to hardcounter the nightblade's mobility/escape and it would still be free kill for zerglings.

The synergy of the shadow ultimate already grants invisibility to someone actives the synergy along with one of the strongest HoT in the game and a 70% speed buff that Stacks with major/ minor expedition.

I agree however that the viel of blade morph is kinda meh damage wise

Rianai

BohnT wrote: »

I agree however that the viel of blade morph is kinda meh damage wise

The damage isn't that bad. It has higher total dmg than destro ult for a lower cost on top of major protection and a strong snare. In a long stationary fight it can even beat destro ult dps wise. That skill carried me through my first VMA runs .

I think the main issue in both PvE and PvP is the tiny radius.

BohnT

Rianai wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

I agree however that the viel of blade morph is kinda meh damage wise

The damage isn't that bad. It has higher total dmg than destro ult for a lower cost on top of major protection and a strong snare. In a long stationary fight it can even beat destro ult dps wise. That skill carried me through my first VMA runs .

I think the main issue in both PvE and PvP is the tiny radius.

Not just your first runs

CavalryPK

Would love to see one of the devs comment on what they think about this thread. and what is the timeline if they decide to implement some of suggestions. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Datthaw

CavalryPK wrote: »

Would love to see one of the devs comment on what they think about this thread. and what is the timeline if they decide to implement some of suggestions. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Pretty sure kena is the one who is collecting all this info for them, he's the NB class rep

BigBadVolk

Datthaw wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

hakan wrote: »

as a stamblade main for years,
1- some of our class skills has no use. example power extraction and blur.
2- incap has too many things on it. a slight nerf needed imo. but im fearing of totally getting destructed.

Thats not true at all. I know a few Gankblades who use "Double Take" as a way of getting Major Expedition in stealth. As for "Mirage", its heavily used by Nightblade Tanks for its Major Evasion and Minor Resolve.
I agree on "Power Extraction" though. I use it as an AoE taunt to initiate combat but I dont remember seeing other people use it.

Idk double take might die this patch as just a source of maj exp. The psijic skill channeled acceleration might end up replacing alot of skills used really just for the maj exp.

Does the Psijic skill reveal you when you are Cloaked? Because if it does then that’s not going to happen.

I know the one without cast time doesn't break cloak, can't speak for channeled, but... it's 36s uptime, plus they give minor force so yoy can take easy advantage of that 10% crit bonus by getting off a cloak proc

If it hasnt been answered. then neither of the morphs take you out of stealth

BigBadVolk

ALso magblade mainer from PVE standpoint not much from that standpoint IMO Magblade is fine
from pvp, as many other have said before me, snare removal not necessary immunity but some form of removel would be awesome for those who dont want to run Two Handed Sword

GreenSoup2HoT

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

1: Remove DoT suppression on cloak: makes the class impossible to pressure
2: Give NBs better sustained healing, maybe through leeching strikes.

Medium nbs need that dot suppression. Its the only reason medium works on 1 of 5 classes.

I like the idea of leeching beong like HoT that you can refresh with light/heavy attacks.

Juhasow

Supernatural wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade main here.

I would really like to see a small adjustment to Grim Focus and its morphs. Not very long ago, the skill was changed quite a bit, and one of the changes was that you'd now lose all your grim focus stacks upon exiting combat. Whoever thought of this did not take into consideration how this change would affect the skill's performance in Maelstrom and Dragonstar Arena. So pretty much every time white portals spawn in betweeen rounds, all your stacks are gone, which means that you cannot activate your spectral bow most of the time. Most players do not give a damn about this, but as a player who goes for the highest of scores I can say that this is extremely annoying, as I cannot get the most out of the skill. So what I suggest is to add a 4-5 second delay to the disappearance of the grim focus stacks. It is a very simple fix that will not really affect PvP in any way.

Wait what ? So the skill that currently is very strong and close to calling it overperforming one , should be buffed so nightblades can get easier 600k+ scores on vMA ? If anything this should be one of the biggest favorites to get nerfed in terms of bringing nightblades DPS down to other classes.

Supernatural

Juhasow wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

Stamina Nightblade main here.

I would really like to see a small adjustment to Grim Focus and its morphs. Not very long ago, the skill was changed quite a bit, and one of the changes was that you'd now lose all your grim focus stacks upon exiting combat. Whoever thought of this did not take into consideration how this change would affect the skill's performance in Maelstrom and Dragonstar Arena. So pretty much every time white portals spawn in betweeen rounds, all your stacks are gone, which means that you cannot activate your spectral bow most of the time. Most players do not give a damn about this, but as a player who goes for the highest of scores I can say that this is extremely annoying, as I cannot get the most out of the skill. So what I suggest is to add a 4-5 second delay to the disappearance of the grim focus stacks. It is a very simple fix that will not really affect PvP in any way.

Wait what ? So the skill that currently is very strong and close to calling it overperforming one , should be buffed so nightblades can get easier 600k+ scores on vMA ? If anything this should be one of the biggest favorites to get nerfed in terms of bringing nightblades DPS down to other classes.

What I am proposing is not a buff. What I am proposing is a small change that will make the skill function like it once used to. You are supposed to be losing your stacks upon exiting combat, not during combat. That is totally ridiculous. You cannot even shoot your spectral bow 80% of the time. And I would not mind a nerf to the skill itself, I really would not. But it must be functioning properly.

Myconos

It seems like nightblade healers and tanks don't bring any group support to the table besides off-heals in PVE. They have no minor buffs like minor fracture, minor endurance they can hand out. They used to be able to make up for it with added DPS while tanking or healing and better resource sustain, but with the nerfs to siphoning strikes and funnel health and refreshing path and crit heals. their skills have become less efficient. Additionally, nightblade healers have no reason anymore to slot an assassination ability to provide minor savagery to the group. I think refreshing path or malefic could provide a synergy or a buff/debuff to allies. Thematic ideas are providing minor endurance and minor expedition to allies besides the caster on refreshing path, or providing minor force to the target of malefic. Alternatively, refreshing path could have a synergy that gives minor force or applies critical vulnerability (as in the opposite of impenetrable) to a boss on refreshing path. For tanks, making the trap version of fear into a fear and root would help give them a thematic crowd control and lockdown for mobs, since otherwise nightblade tanks have mobs running around too much or relying on sets or expensive and weak snares to hold mobs in place.

Gprime31

Guess you’ve never heard of a glass canon?

GrumpyDuckling

I really hope you're not done collecting feedback because I wanted to bring this up:

In this ESO Live video from May 2017, specifically from 31:43 to 32:30, there is brief discussion from the Lead Combat Designer and the Creative Director of ESO that mentions potential changes to Nightblade PVE play. Specifically, one quote mentions, "getting a more sorta stealthy feel to the [Nightblade] PVE rotation is, umm a longer term goal."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSjITuUedNA&index=16&list=PL544E3ECCF3FB4203

Since classes are getting focused on, might we get some insight into what the Lead Combat Designer means, or has plans for in making Nightblade feel more stealthy?

ADarklore

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I really hope you're not done collecting feedback because I wanted to bring this up:

In this ESO Live video from May 2017, specifically from 31:43 to 32:30, there is brief discussion from the Lead Combat Designer and the Creative Director of ESO that mentions potential changes to Nightblade PVE play. Specifically, one quote mentions, "getting a more sorta stealthy feel to the [Nightblade] PVE rotation is, umm a longer term goal."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSjITuUedNA&index=16&list=PL544E3ECCF3FB4203

Since classes are getting focused on, might we get some insight into what the Lead Combat Designer means, or has plans for in making Nightblade feel more stealthy?

And what did they do... removed the stealth option from a stealth class morph with Summerset. Go figure.

GreenSoup2HoT

ADarklore wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I really hope you're not done collecting feedback because I wanted to bring this up:

In this ESO Live video from May 2017, specifically from 31:43 to 32:30, there is brief discussion from the Lead Combat Designer and the Creative Director of ESO that mentions potential changes to Nightblade PVE play. Specifically, one quote mentions, "getting a more sorta stealthy feel to the [Nightblade] PVE rotation is, umm a longer term goal."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSjITuUedNA&index=16&list=PL544E3ECCF3FB4203

Since classes are getting focused on, might we get some insight into what the Lead Combat Designer means, or has plans for in making Nightblade feel more stealthy?

And what did they do... removed the stealth option from a stealth class morph with Summerset. Go figure.

they did quote in the post pinned that sums the class rep notes that the new dark cloak isnt hitting the mark for what they want. maybe we will see it reverted to the old dark cloak from long ago. one can hope.

Slick_007

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

it angers me that we cannot sneak fast in stealth.
right now we have an ability to sneak but it simply feels like we are crawling in mud while we are sneaking, we need to be able to Get Out of harm way while in sneak and right now it is Way too slow in sneak speeds.

you can sneak at full speed if you gear correctly. how is that not fast enough?

Trout1996

1. Add snare removal and increase duration of minor protection to Dark Cloak
2. Add streak cost increase to Shadowy Disguise morph or increase its cost by 1k-2k.

Silver_Strider

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I really hope you're not done collecting feedback because I wanted to bring this up:

In this ESO Live video from May 2017, specifically from 31:43 to 32:30, there is brief discussion from the Lead Combat Designer and the Creative Director of ESO that mentions potential changes to Nightblade PVE play. Specifically, one quote mentions, "getting a more sorta stealthy feel to the [Nightblade] PVE rotation is, umm a longer term goal."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSjITuUedNA&index=16&list=PL544E3ECCF3FB4203

Since classes are getting focused on, might we get some insight into what the Lead Combat Designer means, or has plans for in making Nightblade feel more stealthy?

And what did they do... removed the stealth option from a stealth class morph with Summerset. Go figure.

they did quote in the post pinned that sums the class rep notes that the new dark cloak isnt hitting the mark for what they want. maybe we will see it reverted to the old dark cloak from long ago. one can hope.

While I do miss the purge from Dark Cloak, I don't think they'll ever return that option. They are trying to make NB Tanking more akin to DK and Warden Tanking but Dark Cloak alone will never bring NBs up to that level, it just brought them to a standard Tank Level in which they'd be able to survive better alone for a period of time. I personally think the skill is completely fine as is but the rest of NB's Toolkit desperately needs to be looked it if ZOS truly wants NBs to be widely accepted Tanks and Healers.

Group Utility is really a huge deal in End Game and DK/Wardens have that in spades whereas a NB is pretty much a self contained class without much group utility outside of offheals (and Warden blows NBs away by a mile in that department). I've already bombarded this thread (and pretty much every NB related thread) with my suggestions that I won't repeat them again but really there is plenty of underutilized morphs in NB's toolkit that could easily be revamped to be group utility, ZOS just needs to put in the effort to make it happen is all.

iTzStevey

1. Concealed weapon is poopy. I would much rather it apply major breach than some increased move speed in cloak.

2. Incap is really unbalanced, i think both morphs should stun but reduce the damage OR increase the cost.

Aztlan

If you lower the damage or increase the cost of Incap Strike, then it needs to be undodgable. Good players dodge this skill all the time, such that I really need to be unpredictable about when I use it. I could see setting a condition on the knock down, as some have suggested, but let's not go overboard. This is a single target, dodgable skill for the game's assassin class. Don't gut the skill for crying out loud. I don't want to have to use Dawnbreaker like everybody else.

Datthaw

Aztlan wrote: »

If you lower the damage or increase the cost of Incap Strike, then it needs to be undodgable. Good players dodge this skill all the time, such that I really need to be unpredictable about when I use it. I could see setting a condition on the knock down, as some have suggested, but let's not go overboard. This is a single target, dodgable skill for the game's assassin class. Don't gut the skill for crying out loud. I don't want to have to use Dawnbreaker like everybody else.

yeah something is wrong when every stam spec and even magsorcs are using 1 ult. If they want more diversity it might be a good thing to look into.

hakan

im also agreeing with incap being changed or nerfed slightly but it doesnt hit hard. mostly 5-6k damage. doesnt matter if i get hit by it or i hit someone always around same number. but with all the other effects combined it becomes kinda op yes.

maybe making it 90-100 ultimate and removing the defile? since its disease based it already has applying disease status effect by ten percent chance which is minor defile right?

mojomood

Required Sloads mention: Sloads pulling from cloak. Sloads stacking.
1. While not strictly a NB issue, it affects almost all stamBlades. Shuffle immunity should be longer and forward momentum should be shorter. Using a 2H gives up nothing and is usually preferred in PvP. Using Medium armor gives up a lot of tanginess. Going medium should be a stam glass cannon. Right now, heavy is way to sustainable and mobile.
2. Magblade should have easy access to cc immunity as mobility is even more crucial since they are usually in light and don't have a good shield stack.

Chelo

For MagBlade:

1. Strife (and morphs) should be unreflectable. Right now there's no reason to pick it over Force Pulse/Crushing Shock in pvp...

2. Rework Soul Harvest to make it a Range Ultimate (same rework you did with Impale to made it a Range Execute), or keep it melee but make it undodgeable again... Give use a reason to use Soul Harvest over Incap...

exeeter702

Chelo wrote: »

For MagBlade:

1. Strife (and morphs) should be unreflectable. Right now there's no reason to pick it over Force Pulse/Crushing Shock in pvp...

increased healing done for slotting it, ult generation and when used correctly, a strong HOT for allies. It is invaluable, especially for healers.

Metemsycosis

1. Incap OP
2. Streak/dodge increase cost cloak if already cloaked.

hakan

streak stuns, deals damage and instant gap opener.

cloak just invis but you are in melee range already and probably used 1-2 cloak to go near your target. which leaves you with one more cloak chance. you cant escape otherwise.

im sorry that sounds ridiculous.

Datthaw

@NightbladeMechanics Great job with the suggestions on our class kena. If I had a cookie, even if it was my last one, I would give it to you.

Now it's up to zos to do thier part

Datthaw glares at zos >_> zos