Premade groups are ruining battlegrounds...

Aurielle

Yes

The full premade match with my guildies I mentioned earlier:



MaidMarion’s first BG. She’s a tank, and a darn good one at that. I asked her to put guard on Albi (our healer), and just let me and annie (both magsorcs) go to town. I died once because I physically had to put the controller down to answer a knock at my door. We wouldn’t have had a single death otherwise. Team purple cycled through several teammates after a few rage quits. Everyone on both opposing teams was randomly queued (edit: may have been a few duos: I often see Lyos and Kj together, though that could just be RNG, as there are so few of us at this MMR tier).

It was such a boring match. So easy, so lazy. I understand why some premades pugstomp, because it’s a quick and easy way to make AP. There’s no challenge involved. If we’d been playing against other premades, it would have been a lot of fun. Because our opponents were randomly queued, though, it was a one-sided massacre.

Thogard

No

Aurielle wrote: »

The full premade match with my guildies I mentioned earlier:



MaidMarion’s first BG. She’s a tank, and a darn good one at that. I asked her to put guard on Albi (our healer), and just let me and annie (both magsorcs) go to town. I died once because I physically had to put the controller down to answer a knock at my door. We wouldn’t have had a single death otherwise. Team purple cycled through several teammates after a few rage quits. Everyone on both opposing teams was randomly queued (edit: may have been a few duos: I often see Lyos and Kj together, though that could just be RNG, as there are so few of us at this MMR tier).

It was such a boring match. So easy, so lazy. I understand why some premades pugstomp, because it’s a quick and easy way to make AP. There’s no challenge involved. If we’d been playing against other premades, it would have been a lot of fun. Because our opponents were randomly queued, though, it was a one-sided massacre.

Pug stomping is so boring though, and if you’re organized and optimized with class composition the AP in cyrodil is much much greater.

Putting premades in a separate queue is something that every half-decent premade has been requesting for a long time.

Aurielle

Yes

Thogard wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

The full premade match with my guildies I mentioned earlier:



MaidMarion’s first BG. She’s a tank, and a darn good one at that. I asked her to put guard on Albi (our healer), and just let me and annie (both magsorcs) go to town. I died once because I physically had to put the controller down to answer a knock at my door. We wouldn’t have had a single death otherwise. Team purple cycled through several teammates after a few rage quits. Everyone on both opposing teams was randomly queued (edit: may have been a few duos: I often see Lyos and Kj together, though that could just be RNG, as there are so few of us at this MMR tier).

It was such a boring match. So easy, so lazy. I understand why some premades pugstomp, because it’s a quick and easy way to make AP. There’s no challenge involved. If we’d been playing against other premades, it would have been a lot of fun. Because our opponents were randomly queued, though, it was a one-sided massacre.

Pug stomping is so boring though, and if you’re organized and optimized with class composition the AP in cyrodil is much much greater.

Putting premades in a separate queue is something that every half-decent premade has been requesting for a long time.

Fully agreed. Pug stomping is so dull — feels like clubbing seals. It’s one of the primary reasons I run solo most of the time (that, and the long queue times for full premades). I’d love a separate queue for premades, as it would give me and my guildies something to do when we’re dominating Vivec and getting bored with that. Would also be good training for small group action.

Haojin

No

well, last 2 weeks, it was impossible to get a que if you group que for deathmatch. i think bgs are safer places now for family friendly roleplayers running with 7 divines and relequen.

Goregrinder

No

This just in!! Game modes with objectives that want team work, reward organized groups who work as a team to complete said objectives.....more on this at 11....

In other news, wind is windy. Here to talk about how windy wind actually is, is none other than our own in house windologist, Misty Breeze...

CompM4s

No

I ❤️ Salt mail

Kel

Yes

bigelle.x3_ESO wrote: »

Love the anecdotal evidence people give. ONE TIME I PLAYED VS PEOPLE WHO I SUSPECT ARE PARTIED UP AND WE LOST!! Mmos are about playing with your friends. Remove the option of playing with your friends, well that's just silly. The only difference between premades and pugs is that premades are sometimes coordinated. A lot of the time premades are just a group of friends who aren't coordinated and just want to play with each other. You know how you beat them? "Hey guy, let's ult at the same time." "Hey let's stick together and maybe not run 1 at a time into 4 people." Boom one sentence and done. Try talking to your team, and maybe upping your own game. No one's unbeatable.

Love the anecdotal evidence people give.

I never call it a premade unless I see the same people grouped up more than once, or running the same guild tabbard.

Azramel

No

I understand the frustration of fighting a premade when you queued up solo but that's on ZOS to figure out how to balance the game. Can't blame premades for playing a format that was designed for them.

Blue_Radium

No

It honestly seems like an impossible problem. PvP only works well when it's fun in and of itself, where the competition and the social connections drive it. Building systems to hit that critical mass that lets it run on autopilot doesn't mesh with with ESO's One Tamriel, everyone together always design. It's like trying to solve the veteran dungeon solo que problem of 1 or 2 players pretty much always carrying 2-3 players who have no business being there at their skill level. Hard to do without having "elitism" built into the core systems, for people to desire, understand the path towards, and seek out, as a primary means of feeling motivated to play. It takes developing specifically to force players into a mentality of socialize and rise to the occasion. Sort of like Vanilla WoW. Git gud and make friends or you cannot play this game, from level 10 onward. Instant gratification is a hard drug to try and take away.

Now take 1 or 2 struggle bus dungeon teams, put them up against a Fang Lair no death + speed run + HM-capable team, have the struggling team success be based on the good team's performance, and you have Battlegrounds. Much more complex issue, that still carries all the problems of the last one. It's going to suck for bad players. Afterwards there is no git gud moment, because as soon as it's over the players are loaded back into a world where consequences only exist when sought out.

I guess that's my 3 cents. Interesting problem that ZOS has to change their entire design philosophy in some massive way to begin solving.

max_only

Yes

Solo queue only. Way more fun to kill my mates than to sweep the arena.

Weesacs

Yes

max_only wrote: »

Solo queue only. Way more fun to kill my mates than to sweep the arena.

I agree however problem is, some people can't play solo and need their mates to help them, I see it all the time.

Arzharo

Yes

People running premades are afraid of playing in a mode where they face other premades. This is the fact for any game with the same problem and the devs often listen to these people.

Betty_Booms

LordTareq wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

And there is the same guild yet again queuing premades against solo players, and the match maker yet again, won't give the solo queuers a 4th...

28k damage?

lulwut

Oh i'm sorry for not pouring my heart and soul into a game that was decided before it even started. Masochism isn't my thing. I see a premade and i'll just alt+tab and do something else.

I tend to set a smaller goal than winning the battleground in such cases, for example I create my own goal of killing one of them that has the worst name. Or killstealing their kills then escaping death as often as I can. But I won't stop trying. Different mindset I suppose.

Haha in the same. I dont mind being killed. Ill keep trying to get at least 1 down.

jediodyn_ESO

Yes

6/29 Another weekend night 12/15 matches against definite or partial premades while going in solo. See the same pairs and full groups repeatedly. (PS4). If in question, I just ask “are you queuing solo?” Most PS4 players are actually pretty cordial and happy to answer.

How do you let this happen devs? Does it blow your mind why battlegrounds isn’t more popular?! Does it amaze you that the biggest selling point for going to BG here on the forums is “well at least it isn’t Cyrodiil lag”?

Separate the freaking queues! (Please) We’ve been asking for years

Waffennacht

@jediodyn_ESO what time do you play? Do you consistently play at the same time in the day?

Not sure how MMR works, but I know in the later evening I get a wider variety of opponents

Toc de Malsvi

Yes

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I sure do enjoy giving premades a hard time though. When they start focusing me I can tell they're getting frustrated at the solos putting up a fight. Must make them feel like a weaker squad.

It's frustrating sometimes though because if its not laggy I can still fight the good fight when I'm focused, meaning I'm losing but I'm putting people down and contributing knowing I'm going to lose anyways. If its super laggy then it doesn't matter as soon as they start focusing me 2 or 3 v 1 then I'm done, time to sit through 18 seconds of tea-bagging to get up and get blown up in 3-5 seconds cause the damage is already pre-loaded, skills wont respond, and nothing I do actually matters.

jediodyn_ESO

Yes

Waffennacht wrote: »

@jediodyn_ESO what time do you play? Do you consistently play at the same time in the day?

Not sure how MMR works, but I know in the later evening I get a wider variety of opponents

I usually play at prime time, like the bulk of the population who work or go to school. Early in the day (east coast) or super late at night when people are still getting home from work or going to bed the premade teams, (good) pairs and trios are fewer on PS4. Battlegrounds popularity has noticeably declined over the past year (gee, I wonder why). I don’t honestly know my “MMR” but I think it’s safe to guess that I’ve been at the top for a while now, I’m a Legate and I’ve seen the same ridiculously good players every night for months.

The game should be fun for both solo and premade at prime time. It isn’t that complicated to separate the queues and incentivize the group play (with different, but NOT BETTER rewards) to make it worth the extra effort for organization. Current system just makes players not want to play at all and eventually burns out almost everyone.

Cathexis

Yes

I would wait longer in queue for a premade opt out option.

(A) Premades are not fun, it's 4 players superstacked roleplaying over discord as a rootspamming multibox and in some cases intentionally picking out and attacking non-premades because they lack the advantage. Last night I had 8 players full on follow me around the map for 5m+ never attacking each other, eventually they gave up because they sucked and couldn't actually drop me. But that stops being pvp, and starts being harassment when you follow someone for 5 minutes of a match, as two teams, and don't attack each other. At that point you are just using the platform, which is supposed to be about having fun, to single out a player because you are butthurt and never developed the skills to manage your sad feels.

(B) Pugs who end up in vs 2 premades leave, and then when you queue solo you end up spawning into games where you are already losing vs 2 premades.

Why is this even happening by the way? Why are you able to queue into a game where you have already lost with no effective choice in the matter?

(C) Pug x3 feels like how the game was meant to be played. It's fun, players actually have to think about what they are doing and play in unique ways. Losing a match doesn't feel stupid, like there wasn't a point in even queuing. It feels like it was spontaneous and fun, where you have fights that don't suck.

rustic_potato wrote: »

Lol NO. I you want to do chaotic PVP with random people then go to Cyro and there is plenty. BGs were ZOS' response for small group PVP. Either play with your friends and form your own group or stop whining.

Here is my problem with the above argument: the only person who benefits in this situation is premades. It's convenient to vote no when you gain nothing and lose your gangbeat easymoad. If you actually cared about it being "random and chaotic" then you could just opt to not play non-premade bgs. So it's not really about being "random and chaotic" (which, God forbid, something unpredictable might happen and you are suddenly not at a cushy advantage).

Some of us don't want to play in a preformed group. It's not fun for us, it's a boring style of fighting, it's clingy and dependent. It sacrifices any sort of dynamic fighting for an over 9000 powercreep advantage and that's not fun to some players. Can you see how, as a player who just wants to log in, jump on a few matches, and log out, that isn't fun?

Iskiab

No

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Ugg, as a solo queuer I beat premades all the time. Not every time, but enough so it’s competitive.

Some games we start losing but then later on in the game we get a 4th and have to play catch up. Never give up! If you discouraged try something else for a bit.

In what? Pre 50’s BGs? Low MMR BG? Who are you in game and what do you play on? I find your statement hard to believe.

Edit for more explanation:
I find it hard to believe b/c on PS4 this week I went up against the same duos and premades about 3/4 matches. Yeah, I play at prime time, but so do most people. Getting in with a duo? Yeah, we win, me and some pugs, hey... 2nd place.

I’m PC-NA, I’d say I’m mid-highish and have just over 1k games played but am not sure.

I usually play earlier in the day so face less premades but I do face them.

What no one has mentioned is premades usually win a lot because they’re better players. That’s why they’re grouping up, just like premade pve groups, they want to exclude weaker players from their group.

Solo queuing means you see all sorts, like today I had to stop doing BGs because I kept losing. You can get weak groups over and over again because weaker players are queuing, where my normal win rate is just over 50%.

Sure you’ll get weak comps sometimes in BGs, but hate to say it but the L2P saying is the issue. So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

wheem_ESO

Yes

Iskiab wrote: »

So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

Actually, the reason I don't usually premade is because I don't want to be bored out of my mind. Being in a 4-man tryhard group and stomping teams of 3 randoms over and over again is incredibly boring.

Iskiab wrote: »

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

I don't think that's a very good comparison, since PvE isn't a competition between players. If I solo queue for dungeons, my content isn't made more difficult just because 4 other people are PvE-premading with optimized builds in a different instance.

Iskiab

No

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

Actually, the reason I don't usually premade is because I don't want to be bored out of my mind. Being in a 4-man tryhard group and stomping teams of 3 randoms over and over again is incredibly boring.

Iskiab wrote: »

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

I don't think that's a very good comparison, since PvE isn't a competition between players. If I solo queue for dungeons, my content isn't made more difficult just because 4 other people are PvE-premading with optimized builds in a different instance.

Yea, being short a player is a bigger issue then premades imo. But look at some of the forum posts you see, ‘I don’t like ward ally because sometimes it’ll heal someone else instead of me’. Things like that make you wonder.

Battlegrounds are a group pvp game. Look at your next BG and how many people show as 0 healing, even for stam that means they didn’t hit vigor once.

A lot of players are terrible, they deserve to lose, premades aren’t the issue. They’re something that gets blamed by players playing poorly and playing in a group setting like they’re solo.

jediodyn_ESO

Yes

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

Actually, the reason I don't usually premade is because I don't want to be bored out of my mind. Being in a 4-man tryhard group and stomping teams of 3 randoms over and over again is incredibly boring.

Iskiab wrote: »

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

I don't think that's a very good comparison, since PvE isn't a competition between players. If I solo queue for dungeons, my content isn't made more difficult just because 4 other people are PvE-premading with optimized builds in a different instance.

I also agree that you can’t compare this thread to a PvE thread. Trying to compare PvP to PvE is part of the gigantic balancing problem this gane has in all its systems.

Players don’t want solo queues so they can get carried, players want group queues so people can carry them against pugs.

Anethum

Yes

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

Actually, the reason I don't usually premade is because I don't want to be bored out of my mind. Being in a 4-man tryhard group and stomping teams of 3 randoms over and over again is incredibly boring.

Iskiab wrote: »

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

I don't think that's a very good comparison, since PvE isn't a competition between players. If I solo queue for dungeons, my content isn't made more difficult just because 4 other people are PvE-premading with optimized builds in a different instance.

I also agree that you can’t compare this thread to a PvE thread. Trying to compare PvP to PvE is part of the gigantic balancing problem this gane has in all its systems.

Players don’t want solo queues so they can get carried, players want group queues so people can carry them against pugs.

hell guys, wtf u talking about?
Premades should be separated into another queue.
And randoms should have choice to play as a random vs randoms in general queue.
Or, to join as a random to 2-3 member groups. With own choice when turning on queue.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler any chance u even try to do this? So many years gone...

Waffennacht

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

Actually, the reason I don't usually premade is because I don't want to be bored out of my mind. Being in a 4-man tryhard group and stomping teams of 3 randoms over and over again is incredibly boring.

Iskiab wrote: »

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

I don't think that's a very good comparison, since PvE isn't a competition between players. If I solo queue for dungeons, my content isn't made more difficult just because 4 other people are PvE-premading with optimized builds in a different instance.

It's both. I don't group up because I want to play at my own pace. I like to maybe have a smoke after a good match or whatever and every group I have been a part of hits it immediately one after another. I don't like slowing people down.

Im honest, I love kicking butt, stomping pugs is fun - that's why I know premades love it too. I really don't buy the "I want a competition" in pre mades. As @wheem_ESO said; I've had two teams not attack each other and just chase my ass for 5 minutes straight. (Unlike him; I didn't get away)

Clearly they don't want an even hard match. People camp spawn points on the weak team - they don't want competition.

People get on the forums and complain that no one can kill each other - they want easy kills - not competition.

I have no problem fully removing premades in BGs, "but I wanna play with my friends!" Well first off, you want to pwn people or bring people down (as.in the couple that can't actually play but wanna do it together ehehehhe )

Hey, you can still play with your friends, if you get paired with them

Toc de Malsvi

Yes

Waffennacht wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

Actually, the reason I don't usually premade is because I don't want to be bored out of my mind. Being in a 4-man tryhard group and stomping teams of 3 randoms over and over again is incredibly boring.

Iskiab wrote: »

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

I don't think that's a very good comparison, since PvE isn't a competition between players. If I solo queue for dungeons, my content isn't made more difficult just because 4 other people are PvE-premading with optimized builds in a different instance.

It's both. I don't group up because I want to play at my own pace. I like to maybe have a smoke after a good match or whatever and every group I have been a part of hits it immediately one after another. I don't like slowing people down.

Im honest, I love kicking butt, stomping pugs is fun - that's why I know premades love it too. I really don't buy the "I want a competition" in pre mades. As @wheem_ESO said; I've had two teams not attack each other and just chase my ass for 5 minutes straight. (Unlike him; I didn't get away)

Clearly they don't want an even hard match. People camp spawn points on the weak team - they don't want competition.

People get on the forums and complain that no one can kill each other - they want easy kills - not competition.

I have no problem fully removing premades in BGs, "but I wanna play with my friends!" Well first off, you want to pwn people or bring people down (as.in the couple that can't actually play but wanna do it together ehehehhe )

Hey, you can still play with your friends, if you get paired with them

@Waffennacht
Bro you don't group up cause you are always playing World of Tanks.

Waffennacht

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

So many people have specs that don’t work well in groups and will always lose, that’s why they aren’t in a premade of their own, no one wants to group with them.

Actually, the reason I don't usually premade is because I don't want to be bored out of my mind. Being in a 4-man tryhard group and stomping teams of 3 randoms over and over again is incredibly boring.

Iskiab wrote: »

This is thread is equivalent to a pve thread where players are asking for all dungeon groups to be random comps so someone will have to carry their 10k dps.

I don't think that's a very good comparison, since PvE isn't a competition between players. If I solo queue for dungeons, my content isn't made more difficult just because 4 other people are PvE-premading with optimized builds in a different instance.

It's both. I don't group up because I want to play at my own pace. I like to maybe have a smoke after a good match or whatever and every group I have been a part of hits it immediately one after another. I don't like slowing people down.

Im honest, I love kicking butt, stomping pugs is fun - that's why I know premades love it too. I really don't buy the "I want a competition" in pre mades. As @wheem_ESO said; I've had two teams not attack each other and just chase my ass for 5 minutes straight. (Unlike him; I didn't get away)

Clearly they don't want an even hard match. People camp spawn points on the weak team - they don't want competition.

People get on the forums and complain that no one can kill each other - they want easy kills - not competition.

I have no problem fully removing premades in BGs, "but I wanna play with my friends!" Well first off, you want to pwn people or bring people down (as.in the couple that can't actually play but wanna do it together ehehehhe )

Hey, you can still play with your friends, if you get paired with them

@Waffennacht
Bro you don't group up cause you are always playing World of Tanks.

I dunno what you're talking about.... Lol

MaxJrFTW

Yes

3 games this morning, premades in all 3 of them. Why do we put up with this ***?

Make it 4 games, 4 premades.

Woo, 5 out of 5.

bakermir

No

Seraphayel wrote: »

... do they? I think so. It's no fun to deal with one or even two premade groups in battlegrounds.

Why is there no option to prevent this? 1 and 2 players should count as "single" and 3 and 4 player groups should count as group and be treated as such when it comes to matchmaking.

And no, it is no solution to counter premade groups with the argument "go look for a group yourself".

This just sounds like people saying "faction lock is good for AvA!!1"

People like you complaining about other players teaming up in a MMO game is ruining this game.

Getting owned by premade groups? Make your own one then.

We all walk the same path.

I switched from WoW few months ago after 10 years of playing it because of players like you turning the game into single player grind fiesta.

I hope ZOS reverts faction lock too.

MaxJrFTW

Yes

3 games today and there have been 2 premades in all 3 of them.

Whatever, it's not even worth ranting over it.

wheem_ESO

Yes

bakermir wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

... do they? I think so. It's no fun to deal with one or even two premade groups in battlegrounds.

Why is there no option to prevent this? 1 and 2 players should count as "single" and 3 and 4 player groups should count as group and be treated as such when it comes to matchmaking.

And no, it is no solution to counter premade groups with the argument "go look for a group yourself".

This just sounds like people saying "faction lock is good for AvA!!1"

People like you complaining about other players teaming up in a MMO game is ruining this game.

Getting owned by premade groups? Make your own one then.

We all walk the same path.

I switched from WoW few months ago after 10 years of playing it because of players like you turning the game into single player grind fiesta.

I hope ZOS reverts faction lock too.

Could I put together a premade group? Yes. Do I want to run in a premade group that will frequently be facing off against solo queued players who may not even get a full team? Absolutely not.

I'll group queue when there are other premades running, but even then sometimes you'll get into different games than they do. Being on either end of a "pug stomp" is boring, and I honestly don't understand how some people just don't get that.