Premade groups are ruining battlegrounds...

Seraphayel

... do they? I think so. It's no fun to deal with one or even two premade groups in battlegrounds.

Why is there no option to prevent this? 1 and 2 players should count as "single" and 3 and 4 player groups should count as group and be treated as such when it comes to matchmaking.

And no, it is no solution to counter premade groups with the argument "go look for a group yourself".

Aliyavana

Yes

Yes, nothing you can really do when your In a pug and the other group is a 4 stack of experienced pvpers.



Truth is no one wants to be in the receiving end of a premade group. If a team doesn't even want to leave the spawn and the other team has their teammates completely leave and one left its not really fair.

VaranisArano

Pre-made groups are exactly who Battlegrounds was made for. You know, those small group players who were previously complaining "We can't get good small-scale PVP in Cyrodiil without getting zerged down!" Those people became the pre-made groups of Battlegrounds where they get to farm random players to their hearts' content without getting zerged down.

I think Battlegrounds needs a better matchmaking system, assuming the population can handle it. Otherwise BGs loses too many players who don't want to be farmed by pre-made groups. In Cyrodiil, you can walk away from a group that's farming you and still do PVP elsewhere. In BGs, the only way to stop getting farmed is to get good or quit playing.

VaranisArano

[Removed quote]

That's the problem. Players new to battlegrounds or who want to run with random groups do quit when they get tired of being farmed by pre made groups.

When there's no option to play with people on your own level, the only choices are get good or quit playing. At least on PC/NA, BGs doesn't have a large enough population that it doesnt have to be concerned with retaining players.

redspecter23

Alternate thought, pug groups are no fun for premades to fight against in battlegrounds. And yes, it is a perfectly valid solution to suggest that players find their own groups to run with. This is the situation we have currently.

However, it's not perfect and ZOS should have been aware of this right from the start. People told them before BG even went live that premades would have a massive advantage and they either didn't listen or didn't care. A simple option for solo queue or group queue could solve some issues but ZOS is stubborn in their ways.

Vapirko

No

Short answer yes. But really no since ZOS is actually the one ruining BGs by not allowing 4 man groups a separate queue. I understand 3 man groups could still do a lot of damage but it would at least be a little better. Ideally I think it would have to be one queue for singles and duos and then another queue for any combo from singles to four man groups.

Wolfkeks

No

Totally depends on the players

Seraphayel

Yes

Well everything depends on the players. When you run into a premade group with a tank/healer you're going to lose unless your pug group is really playing together (which is very hard without communication). Something like capture the flag and domination can be somehow countered but to win death match against a group that's communicating via teamspeak or so is nearly impossible.

I really don't mind running into premade groups once or twice a day but to get the same enemies 4, 5 battlegrounds is killing every fun (and I really do like battlegrounds).

Bhaal5

No

Vapirko wrote: »

Short answer yes. But really no since ZOS is actually the one ruining BGs by not allowing 4 man groups a separate queue. I understand 3 man groups could still do a lot of damage but it would at least be a little better. Ideally I think it would have to be one queue for singles and duos and then another queue for any combo from singles to four man groups.

This guy gets it.

Will add, if it wasnt a half baked rushed out the door job this type of gameplay would of been awesome.
Currently with no tournament/casual system like its competitor has its fell well short of its goal. Along with stability issues, made BG massive mess.

dodgehopper_ESO

No

There are not enough players to do what you're asking. If there were tiers of fighters it would be nice to maybe have different tiers of player but I believe you're asking too much. Some days I go out by myself and some days I go with a team.

WakeYourGhost

No

Seraphayel wrote: »

And no, it is no solution to counter premade groups with the argument "go look for a group yourself".

That is actually a solution. I mean, it has the essence of being a solution. It does Solve the problem.

Well organized strategic groups will always overcome those who have no unity -
Of course, removing the opportunity for such strategically formed groups to slaughter the unwary might also "ruin" battlegrounds.

ak_pvp

Yes

There probably isn't enough players for full matchmaking lel. But definite need for separate premade/solo ques.

Ihatenightblades

No

Dont pug or suffer the pugsequences

ssewallb14_ESO

There should definitely be a solo only queue in addition to the currently one. I know I'd play BGs a lot more if there was.

WhitePawPrints

Then make a premade.

Premade small man groups can wipe entire zergs in cyrodil... Coordination and strategy is as strong as it should be.

Ihatenightblades

No

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

There should definitely be a solo only queue in addition to the currently one. I know I'd play BGs a lot more if there was.

During late nights its not easy getting into a bg even early in night i have troubles with or without a group premade. If they made separate queues it would end up like the dungeon finder. Broken

kargen27

One guild I am in would really like to be able to form a 12 man group then have battlegrounds randomly assign us to three teams. We don't care about the awards we just want to be able to battle with and against each other. Dueling events only go so far. All the characters we PvP with are Daggerfall so Cyrodiil doesn't work either.

Apache_Kid

No

I've pugged into many groups before where we smashed the other teams 500-0. Pre-made groups aren't the problem it's good players. If you made it so that no one could queue into a group and have it all be solo queue there would still be games where one team stomps the other two because one team simply got the better players.

There is a large skill-gap in PvP which makes those who aren't very good feel hopeless in many BG matches.

Until they have a healthy enough population to support multiple queues the only advice I can offer is to practice more, get a better build, Or get some friends.


All of this being said, I PUG most of my BGs and come in at least 2nd almost every time and win quite a few. It feels even better when you smash a pre-mades with your Pug group.

Jarryzzt

The way this is handled in various PVP deathmatch MMOs is via matchmaking algorithms.

For example - WoT presently tries to match platoons (premade groups of 2-3 players) such that they are evenly distributed across both teams. I.e. in a 15x15 PUG random deathmatch, each group ideally gets an equal number of platoons (e.g. 2 a piece) from the queue to the extent there are any. It isn't perfect, but that's one way to combat the premade vs. PUG players imbalance.

Obviously Battlegrounds has different starting conditions.That said, ZOS absolutely could code in a matching algorithm that would prevent, say, premade x4 facing off against a PUG. Now - would that add to queue wait times? Quite possibly, though I have no idea not being able to actually see the live queue. So the question is whether this is a good trade-off to make, really.

Inhuman003

Yes

Those pre-made groups are really one-v-one tournament bass players a lot of them hate to admit it but this is the reason why we need arena with tournaments I know I'm going to get a lot of threats about this but all well.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Yes

I don’t think it needs to be its own queue. But there certainly needs to be some sort of rating system. A system premades would naturally move up in. Making it more likely premades play other good players and other premades.

In no way shape or form would this limit the number of players in the pool. So it might have an awesome premade play a bunch of newbies but only if that was the only option..

But just to add my own bit of negativity to the whole thing. With all the issues they have making a working queue system at all, I don’t see something like this ever being added. Hope they prove me wrong.

oMrRust

Yes

This should be simple for them to do.

2 queues.

1 solo only queue

and then

1 groups only queue.

TheDarkShadow

Battleground don't have enough player base to spit the queue into pre-made and pug. But when new solo players try out BG and get crushed by pre-made group, most of then are not likely to come back. The player base of GB therefore become smaller and smaller over time. It's a circle.

DarkAedin

The issue isnt premades. Its the fact that they are actually playing objectives and sticking together. Pugs squirrel and go for kills.

kargen27

DarkAedin wrote: »

The issue isnt premades. Its the fact that they are actually playing objectives and sticking together. Pugs squirrel and go for kills.

Not always the case. I had the misfortune of coming up against a group a few times in a row that would use the games objectives in a way that would allow them to basically farm kills. All they cared about was kills and to that end they made sure no other team would reach the objective ending the fight early.

My answer was to go do something else for a while then try again later hoping either they were gone or there was a larger queue to pull from.

Ch4mpTW

Yes

It’s kinda funny how this poll popped up, and players are saying this. For the longest time Overwatch was (and still is lol) having the problem of solo players being matched up against pre-made groups (we call them: “stacks” in OW). And it is because of this problem that going on to 9 seasons now, that Competitive is falling apart. And not just at low tiers, but ranks as high as Grand Masters.

It’s quite interesting to see how similar ESO is becoming to OW. Fake tanks, bad DPS, people complaining about healers, people complaining about the queue system, the Nightblade/Genji problem, the toxicity, etc.

Diddly_D_Potatoes

No

Apache_Kid wrote: »
I've pugged into many groups before where we smashed the other teams 500-0. Pre-made groups aren't the problem it's good players. If you made it so that no one could queue into a group and have it all be solo queue there would still be games where one team stomps the other two because one team simply got the better players.

People just assume that it is a premade group if you are stomping the opposition.

I too have randomly placed with three other people that I had been fighting with and against for the past few hours. We all knew before the match even started that we were going to win. I even recall someone saying, "This is going to be brutal."

You learn the names of people you regularly fight and you generally know from previous games whether or not particular player are going to be problems and you recognize partial premades or full premades. However sometimes what some people assume is a premade is a random group of good players, that synergize well together.

I don't know if im lucky, but i don't come across that many confirmed (as in I've seen the same group across multiple games) full premade groups. When I do come up against premades, I try and stay out of their way and nibble around the edges (with varying degrees of success).

Joy_Division

I wonder how many people think 4 good players are "premades".

As much as people like to think ESO caters to "noobs," the combat is not forgiving at all. The better and more experienced player almost always wins.

Anotherone773

Yes

This is an issue in every game ive played that had BGs. premade groups dominate and its no fun to PUG it. Premades have obvious advantages over PUG groups. Communication and builds that compliment each other offer them a significant advantage.

They should separate groups into premade BGs and PUG BGs.If you queue with anyone you get stuck in a premade. OR...
Penalize premades to offset their advantages. 5% reduction in all resource pools and DPS per member of group for a maximum of 15% reduction for a fully premade group. Two player premade =5% penalty each, 3 player premade=10% penalty each, 4 player premade=15% penalty each.

Edit: Another thing i hate about the way ZOS does their BGs is they will have 2 teams with 3 players and 1 team with 4 players and they think that is ok to start a BG like that. Ive been in BGs where one team has had a extra player advantage for over half the time. That gives a significant advantage as well. They shouldnt allow any new players in unless all teams get equal numbers.

rustic_potato

No

Lol NO. I you want to do chaotic PVP with random people then go to Cyro and there is plenty. BGs were ZOS' response for small group PVP. Either play with your friends and form your own group or stop whining.

ofSunhold

No

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Pitting PUGs against premades sucks, but it's not the premades fault (or the PUGs either). That is 100 percent a dev mistake.

I'm seeing lots and lots of PUGs though, and PUG x 3 is fun as hell, win or lose. And I know for sure they're PUGs when my opponents are on my team next match.