PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

Mystrius_Archaion

grannas211 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

As I see it, this change puts the Sorcerer firmly behind the DK, NB, and Templar, i

No, templar is the worst for CC. Templar has no immobilize or AoE CC. DK and sorcerer both get AoE immobilize, which happens to setup more damage from some skills also.

Magicka templar is aids specially sword and board.

If you're using sword and shield then you're not a magicka templar, especially in pve. You're just a really bad hybrid, like the Gen1 Toyota Prius.

Not too many in PVP don't back bar S&B. Not a hybrid.

Still not a magicka templar if you're not regaining magicka with all the sustain nerfs. Sword and board back bar has to be a tank or a hybrid that is sacrificing a lot, or a stamplar.


And that also doesn't include PVE where such a setup is ridiculous.

grannas211

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

As I see it, this change puts the Sorcerer firmly behind the DK, NB, and Templar, i

No, templar is the worst for CC. Templar has no immobilize or AoE CC. DK and sorcerer both get AoE immobilize, which happens to setup more damage from some skills also.

Magicka templar is aids specially sword and board.

If you're using sword and shield then you're not a magicka templar, especially in pve. You're just a really bad hybrid, like the Gen1 Toyota Prius.

Not too many in PVP don't back bar S&B. Not a hybrid.

Still not a magicka templar if you're not regaining magicka with all the sustain nerfs. Sword and board back bar has to be a tank or a hybrid that is sacrificing a lot, or a stamplar.


And that also doesn't include PVE where such a setup is ridiculous.

No. Magplars use sword and board back bar in pvp. MagDK use sword and board in pvp. Not sure why you keep stating it's a hybrid thing.

I never said anything about PVE.

Mystrius_Archaion

grannas211 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

As I see it, this change puts the Sorcerer firmly behind the DK, NB, and Templar, i

No, templar is the worst for CC. Templar has no immobilize or AoE CC. DK and sorcerer both get AoE immobilize, which happens to setup more damage from some skills also.

Magicka templar is aids specially sword and board.

If you're using sword and shield then you're not a magicka templar, especially in pve. You're just a really bad hybrid, like the Gen1 Toyota Prius.

Not too many in PVP don't back bar S&B. Not a hybrid.

Still not a magicka templar if you're not regaining magicka with all the sustain nerfs. Sword and board back bar has to be a tank or a hybrid that is sacrificing a lot, or a stamplar.


And that also doesn't include PVE where such a setup is ridiculous.

No. Magplars use sword and board back bar in pvp. MagDK use sword and board in pvp. Not sure why you keep stating it's a hybrid thing.

I never said anything about PVE.

I said pve in my original post and you all ignored it.
FYI, they don't use sword and shield for magicka benefits on the backbar. They're probably using it just for that ultimate. That's not anything to do with whether they are magicka or stamina and actually makes them more hybrid if they do more with it than just the ultimate.

My point stands. Magicka, anything, doesn't use sword and shield outside of niche cases of overpowered skills or FOTM builds that are likely to cause nerfs.

NBrookus

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

As I see it, this change puts the Sorcerer firmly behind the DK, NB, and Templar, i

No, templar is the worst for CC. Templar has no immobilize or AoE CC. DK and sorcerer both get AoE immobilize, which happens to setup more damage from some skills also.

Magicka templar is aids specially sword and board.

If you're using sword and shield then you're not a magicka templar, especially in pve. You're just a really bad hybrid, like the Gen1 Toyota Prius.

Not too many in PVP don't back bar S&B. Not a hybrid.

Still not a magicka templar if you're not regaining magicka with all the sustain nerfs. Sword and board back bar has to be a tank or a hybrid that is sacrificing a lot, or a stamplar.


And that also doesn't include PVE where such a setup is ridiculous.

Any templar in PVP is pretty much automatically focused whether they are heal spec'ed or not. A S&B bar is very common to help survivability.

Feanor

Back on topic: Can't wait to see how high the cost increase on Rune Prison will be. This will be decisive if the skill is really useable.

grannas211

Feanor wrote: »

Back on topic: Can't wait to see how high the cost increase on Rune Prison will be. This will be decisive if the skill is really useable.

Hopefully it's minimal considering the unneeded nerf to frags; however, not going to be surprised if it's brutal.

bardx86

Mayrael wrote: »

Ok. Frags wont stun anymore, with the rune chnage im ok with that but can we talk about speed of that projectile now? With a help of some addon cough... frags are dodged/blocked 90% of a time anyway...
Lets just change shards to stam version of frags - no stun, speed as it is now, insta cast (lets make it clear ZOS, nobody will use this morph on magicka toons anyway, no matter how you nerf frags, cast time skill that can be dodged and reflected and blocked which is telehraphed and can be shown by THE addon in PvP???? Maybe for mashing potatoes...)
As for Farts... Frags. Remove stun component but when proced increase projectile speed by ~30%.

this

Lord-Otto

NBrookus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Emma, I am 99% sure, despite being told otherwise, that mines have a damage cooldown so you only eat one while critrushing through five. Used to be different, but guess who cried? The same people who are still crying and pretend sorc never received a nerf.

I don't know about crit rush, but if you hit multiple mines you absolutely eat the damage of ever single one. This is really fun in lag where you don't even know you are doing it.

In what manner are you hitting them?
I know they can stack if you place them on top of another, by placing them near a wall and such. Are you rolling through three and get all three hits?

Feanor

For mag chars it’s simply mist form over all 5 mines and don’t take damage at all.

BohnT

Feanor wrote: »

For mag chars it’s simply mist form over all 5 mines and don’t take damage at all.

No as you use mistform you lose more magicka due to 4k cost + 2 missed regen ticks while the sorc deals 25% damage on you and can get enough magicka back with resto heavy attack to put down the next layer of mines.

No class except for sorc and earthgore users can remove mines without having a huge disadvantage

Lord-Otto

Feanor wrote: »

For mag chars it’s simply mist form over all 5 mines and don’t take damage at all.

Just place them again. You should get the sustain advantage.
But it is annoying for sure.

Zer0oo

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

For mag chars it’s simply mist form over all 5 mines and don’t take damage at all.

No as you use mistform you lose more magicka due to 4k cost + 2 missed regen ticks while the sorc deals 25% damage on you and can get enough magicka back with resto heavy attack to put down the next layer of mines.

No class except for sorc and earthgore users can remove mines without having a huge disadvantage

On my heavy armor pvp build i just dodge roll though them(you may want to make sure no curse explosion or cfrag will hit you in this time)

gammelscroll

LegendaryMage wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

Dude I'm sorry but no good player gets hit with a 19k overload crit that is ridiculous. Sorry its just the fact that you aren't learned enough in the game yet and still need experience. I'm in light armor and I still don't get crit with 19k overloads the most I've seen are like 9k or 10k because I'm in all divines and I can accept that damage because it is the way I build. I build for bigger shield and weaker health poo, it's kind of a risk reward playstyle. And u didn't take into account that the sorc attacking you could have been using the elegant armor set which buffs overloads out the [snip]. That doesn't mean sorc is op that means the armor set needs to be addressed. Should I complain about magicka nightblades then because assasins will is like the hardest hitting skill in the game? CERTAINLY NOT! The real answer for you my friend is that you need to learn to become better at the game and learn how to actually pvp. But knowing zos they will probably lower the skill ceiling even more just to make you feel comfortable and not work hard for your skillful progress ... which is how the game should be btw it should reward skill not reward feelgood mechanics.

has nothing with skills to to do. ive been top rated player in wow and many other games..that dosnt mather.

i wear full heavy armor with 30k spell resist buffed up and almost 3 k crit resist.

This sorc sniped me from behind when we were running to teleport to top in BG.

And you come here and talk about eso needs skills to play HAHAHA.

would like to see you when you get sniped from behind with overload 1 click attack...takes skills.

sorcs are dominating as PvP class. and they should be balanced. instant frags, stun, mages fury.

players should be rewarded for playing good, not 2 spam skill class

@Lord_Invel tell me what bieng sniped from behind 40 k dmg in 2 sek have to do with a player is good or not?

If you´re getting rekt by sorcs in bgs you still have a lot to learn. The class is apart from execute spam not really shining in a nonCP environment.
The execute is only relevant bc of the scoring system.

Sorcs shileds need a nerf. When a sorc can take crit charge into dizzying swing and get also hit my a nifgblade and i use take flight and he take no dmg...then there is something wrong.

Sorcs are dominating in PvP , survival and damage. They need to be toned down. And remove fragment stun is not the right way. This shield stacking *** needs to go

No, sorcs are absolutely useless agains competent players. Apart from a bit of telegraphed burst that can easily be avoided, sorcs lack the tools to compete with a more steady DPS approach. If you can't dodge frags then that's either a l2p issue or you need a better build.

In the future this might change, but as of now, that's how it is. I literally never struggled against a single sorc on ANY of my stamina builds (not counting cheesy dueling builds like pets and so on).

dodeg instant frag?! [snip]

[edited for insult]
[Edited for quote]

Biro123

gammelscroll wrote: »

dodeg instant frag?

The clever option isn't to let it hit you in the face. Explains why you have so much trouble..
If you're having so much trouble, try playing sorc - one of the first thing you learn is how to avoid your own reflected frags.. Then when you have this skill, you can also use it on other characters.
You an even use it to avoid other kinds of attacks too!

[minor edit for quote]

gammelscroll

Biro123 wrote: »

The clever option isn't to let it hit you in the face. Explains why you have so much trouble..
If you're having so much trouble, try playing sorc - one of the first thing you learn is how to avoid your own reflected frags.. Then when you have this skill, you can also use it on other characters.
You an even use it to avoid other kinds of attacks too!

you know that dodge roll only work on 10% spells abilities in this game? u know that pretty much all abilities/spells in this game are UNdodgeable?

[minor edit for quote]

OdinForge

gammelscroll wrote: »

you know that dodge roll only work on 10% spells abilities in this game? u know that pretty much all abilities/spells in this game are UNdodgeable?

Do you think it's not possible to dodge fragments or something? Do you think the "instant cast" function of crystal fragments means that the frag hits you instantly?

Your logic is entertaining but very confusing.

[edited for baiting]

gammelscroll

OdinForge wrote: »

Do you think it's not possible to dodge fragments or something? Do you think the "instant cast" function of crystal fragments means that the frag hits you instantly?

Your logic is entertaining but very confusing.

[snip]
Instant frag means that sorcs can cast fragment instantly, that means no cast time, that means it teakes 1 push to a button to the frag hits you. Understand? that cant be dodged.

[snip]Let's start with dodge roll. What's the problem with it?

Well, here's a list of basic skills that you cannot mitigate with dodge roll - they will hit you:
Puncturing Strikes (and morphs), Dive (and morphs), Radiant Destruction (and morphs), Dark Talons (and morphs), Petrify (and morphs), Aspect of Terror (and morphs), Daedric Curse (and morphs), Daedric Mines (and morphs), Lightning Form (and morphs), Spear Shards (and morphs), Backlash (and morphs), Scorch (and morphs), Impaling Shards (and morphs), Ash Cloud (and morphs), Wall of Elements (and morphs), Drain Essence (and morphs), Trap Beast (and morphs), Fire Rune (and morphs), Trapping Webs (and morphs), Caltrops (and morphs), Path of Darkness (and morphs), Agony (and morphs), Rune Prison (and morphs), Lightning Splash (and morphs), Volley (and morphs), Magicka Detonation (and morphs), Explosive Charge, Lotus Fan, Streak, Dark Flare (heal debuff portion only), Ritual of Retribution, Arctic Blast

And here's a list of skills that you can't mitigate with dodge once they've been applied:
Mages' Fury (and morphs), Sun Fire (and morphs), Eclipse (and morphs), Swarm (and morphs), Searing Strike (and morphs), Fiery Breath (and morphs), Cleave (and morphs), Twin Slashes (and morphs), Poison Arrow (and morphs), Arrow Spray (and morphs), Soul Trap (and morphs), Infectious Claws (and morphs)[Note: Infectious Claws is very, very difficult to dodge, but it's possible as per my tests], Entropy (and morphs), Volatile Armor

Bad huh? Gets worse:

Ultimates - Soul Strike (and morphs), Dawnbreaker (and morphs), Elemental Storm (and morphs), Meteor (and morphs), Dragonknight Standard (and morphs), Bat Swarm (and morphs), Consuming Darkness (and morphs), Soul Shred (and morphs), Summon Storm Atronach (and morphs), Negate Magic (and morphs), Radial Sweep (and morphs), Nova (and morphs), Sleet Storm (and morphs), Soul Harvest

And one ultimate which you can't mitigate by dodging once it has been applied: Lacerate (and morphs)

That's not all.

DW/2H Bleeds, Skoria proc, DoT set bonuses, lightning/resto heavy attacks - all undodgeable as well.

[edited for flaming]

CyrusArya

BohnT wrote: »

No class except for sorc and earthgore users can remove mines without having a huge disadvantage

Wrong. I routinely dance thru mines with the use of shuffle/forward momentum and vigor like its nothing. Its actually quite easy, especially so in heavy armor. Just gotta block and dodge appropriately to mitigate the incoming damage as you are disarming the mines. Which is easy to do as sorc has the most predictable damage in the game.

Mines can be a strong skill, but they also have counterplay. And If you have the ability to counter them, well thats a huge net magicka drain for the sorc as mines are costly.

FriedEggSandwich

gammelscroll wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed a few comments that were baiting and disruptive. We ask that you please keep your posts civil and constructive.

sorcs already over perform in PvP. If they need something they need a nerf
Like many other mention in here, mages fury needs a rework or something. So tired of 1 button spam sorcs. Mages fury duration should be set to 2 seckonds so good players get rewarded for using it. Not braindead skill to spam on all low hp targets you see. And mages fury is pretty destroying BG`s etc

Dude I'm sorry but no good player gets hit with a 19k overload crit that is ridiculous. Sorry its just the fact that you aren't learned enough in the game yet and still need experience. I'm in light armor and I still don't get crit with 19k overloads the most I've seen are like 9k or 10k because I'm in all divines and I can accept that damage because it is the way I build. I build for bigger shield and weaker health poo, it's kind of a risk reward playstyle. And u didn't take into account that the sorc attacking you could have been using the elegant armor set which buffs overloads out the [snip]. That doesn't mean sorc is op that means the armor set needs to be addressed. Should I complain about magicka nightblades then because assasins will is like the hardest hitting skill in the game? CERTAINLY NOT! The real answer for you my friend is that you need to learn to become better at the game and learn how to actually pvp. But knowing zos they will probably lower the skill ceiling even more just to make you feel comfortable and not work hard for your skillful progress ... which is how the game should be btw it should reward skill not reward feelgood mechanics.

has nothing with skills to to do. ive been top rated player in wow and many other games..that dosnt mather.

i wear full heavy armor with 30k spell resist buffed up and almost 3 k crit resist.

This sorc sniped me from behind when we were running to teleport to top in BG.

And you come here and talk about eso needs skills to play HAHAHA.

would like to see you when you get sniped from behind with overload 1 click attack...takes skills.

sorcs are dominating as PvP class. and they should be balanced. instant frags, stun, mages fury.

players should be rewarded for playing good, not 2 spam skill class

@Lord_Invel tell me what bieng sniped from behind 40 k dmg in 2 sek have to do with a player is good or not?

If you´re getting rekt by sorcs in bgs you still have a lot to learn. The class is apart from execute spam not really shining in a nonCP environment.
The execute is only relevant bc of the scoring system.

Sorcs shileds need a nerf. When a sorc can take crit charge into dizzying swing and get also hit my a nifgblade and i use take flight and he take no dmg...then there is something wrong.

Sorcs are dominating in PvP , survival and damage. They need to be toned down. And remove fragment stun is not the right way. This shield stacking *** needs to go

No, sorcs are absolutely useless agains competent players. Apart from a bit of telegraphed burst that can easily be avoided, sorcs lack the tools to compete with a more steady DPS approach. If you can't dodge frags then that's either a l2p issue or you need a better build.

In the future this might change, but as of now, that's how it is. I literally never struggled against a single sorc on ANY of my stamina builds (not counting cheesy dueling builds like pets and so on).

dodeg instant frag? you must be realy stupid or just playing dumb

Because the clever option is to let it hit you in the face? Explains why you have so much trouble..
If you're having so much trouble, try playing sorc - one of the first thing you learn is how to avoid your own reflected frags.. Then when you have this skill, you can also use it on other characters.
You an even use it to avoid other kinds of attacks too!

you know that dodge roll only work on 10% spells abilities in this game? u know that pretty much all abilities/spells in this game are UNdodgeable?

Well frags is part of your 10% because it can be dodged. And it's really slow and visible. It's also possible to know when a sorc has an instant frag ready, so it's completely in your capability to avoid. If you insist on fighting sorcs in melee range then you will get hit with melee range frags, but if they have the comfort to turn to face you for a melee range frags then you are not putting enough pressure on them.

[Edited for quote]

Biro123

gammelscroll wrote: »

Let's start with dodge roll. What's the problem with it?

Well, here's a list of basic skills that you cannot mitigate with dodge roll - they will hit you:
Puncturing Strikes (and morphs), Dive (and morphs), Radiant Destruction (and morphs), Dark Talons (and morphs), Petrify (and morphs), Aspect of Terror (and morphs), Daedric Curse (and morphs), Daedric Mines (and morphs), Lightning Form (and morphs), Spear Shards (and morphs), Backlash (and morphs), Scorch (and morphs), Impaling Shards (and morphs), Ash Cloud (and morphs), Wall of Elements (and morphs), Drain Essence (and morphs), Trap Beast (and morphs), Fire Rune (and morphs), Trapping Webs (and morphs), Caltrops (and morphs), Path of Darkness (and morphs), Agony (and morphs), Rune Prison (and morphs), Lightning Splash (and morphs), Volley (and morphs), Magicka Detonation (and morphs), Explosive Charge, Lotus Fan, Streak, Dark Flare (heal debuff portion only), Ritual of Retribution, Arctic Blast

And here's a list of skills that you can't mitigate with dodge once they've been applied:
Mages' Fury (and morphs), Sun Fire (and morphs), Eclipse (and morphs), Swarm (and morphs), Searing Strike (and morphs), Fiery Breath (and morphs), Cleave (and morphs), Twin Slashes (and morphs), Poison Arrow (and morphs), Arrow Spray (and morphs), Soul Trap (and morphs), Infectious Claws (and morphs)[Note: Infectious Claws is very, very difficult to dodge, but it's possible as per my tests], Entropy (and morphs), Volatile Armor

Bad huh? Gets worse:

Ultimates - Soul Strike (and morphs), Dawnbreaker (and morphs), Elemental Storm (and morphs), Meteor (and morphs), Dragonknight Standard (and morphs), Bat Swarm (and morphs), Consuming Darkness (and morphs), Soul Shred (and morphs), Summon Storm Atronach (and morphs), Negate Magic (and morphs), Radial Sweep (and morphs), Nova (and morphs), Sleet Storm (and morphs), Soul Harvest

And one ultimate which you can't mitigate by dodging once it has been applied: Lacerate (and morphs)

That's not all.

DW/2H Bleeds, Skoria proc, DoT set bonuses, lightning/resto heavy attacks - all undodgeable as well.

DDuke? Is that you?

Its now a known fact that, like Godwin's law every sorc thread turns into a 'light armour is weak' thread.. I can see where this is going..

btw - I've already discredited that list, because basically all this stuff is wrong:

1. Saying a dot is undodgeable when you can dodge the attack that applies it.
2. Saying a gtaoe is undodgeable when dodge is absolutely the quickest way to get out of the area
3. Saying a pbaoe is undodgeable when your dodge can take you out of the area
4. Saying cone aoe's are undodgeable when a dodge can take you out of their range/area
5. Listing a bunch of skills that are only used in PVE - cus they're useless in PVP

Its funny you list stuff like negate - when my massively overpowered, unkillable magsorc avoids it with a simple dodgeroll...

[minor edit for quote]

FriedEggSandwich

Do you understand the difference between cast time and projectile travel time? Cast time is how long it takes to pull the bow back for a snipe. Travel time is how long the arrow from snipe stays in the air before hitting its target. Frags is the same. Instant cast has no cast time, but it still has a travel time. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Chilly-McFreeze

Most people can predict when a sorc will use his instant frag proc. They can see the visual and they know when curse goes off. A frag alone, without burst from curse, won't kill a good player. Also, not everyone has to stay "on top of the sorc" to do damage.

[edited for ref to quote]

gammelscroll

Ive been testing in game now. When you are a melee caracter on top of the sorc, there is no chance in hell to see the travel time, cause there is no *** travel time when you are on top of the sorc.

from when a sorc push a instant cast frag and the time it hits you ( still on the sorc) we are talking about 0.1-0.2 sek)

so pls show me your skills that u have the reaction time to dodge roll a 0.1 sek travel time cast

pieratsos

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

For mag chars it’s simply mist form over all 5 mines and don’t take damage at all.

No as you use mistform you lose more magicka due to 4k cost + 2 missed regen ticks while the sorc deals 25% damage on you and can get enough magicka back with resto heavy attack to put down the next layer of mines.

No class except for sorc and earthgore users can remove mines without having a huge disadvantage

Removing mines is a huge disadvantage for the sorcs that cast them too. They cost 5.5k. They quite literally murder your magicka pool and against tanky opponents they do more harm than good when you keep recasting them. In such cases they are only good for the root to give u some space if u are going low on hp/resources.

ak_pvp

Make both mines arm instantly and cover a slightly wider area. Make the 3 mine morph deal increasing damage for each subsequent mine hit.

CyrusArya

I would like to take second to appreciate you @gammelscroll

Players like you make it abundantly clear how unfounded, illogical, and straight up ignorant the vast majority of criticism against the class is. I’m always saying that sorcs are perceived as being over powered because of clueless baddies who would rather complain than learn. And then someone like you comes through and completely validates those sentiments for any onlooking devs. Thank you.

And for the record, you absolutely can dodge a instant frag. Well, maybe not you personally but people with cautionary foresight who can read and react definitely can.

gammelscroll wrote: »

come duel my sorc, i bet 1 million dollar that u cant see or have the reaction time to dodge roll a instant cast frag lol

Sure thing. Are you PC NA?

Zer0oo

gammelscroll wrote: »

pople claim you can dodge roll a instant cast lol

so you tell me if youare in the sorcs face doing damage you can see the fragment is traveling to you with instant cast?

........

This is the pts forum if you have so much problems with sorc or with dodging frags you could go to the pvp forum or player helping player forum.

As for if instant cast frags can be dodge: Yes they can and it is actually quite easy. You can actually see the proc; at this point you can assume that he/she will use it soon.(Most likely at the same time as the curse goes off). That is way most sorcs are so predictable. They are more or less forced into one build since the toolkit is quite limited and gets more and more limited with each patch. Basically almost every sorc runs more or less the same bar setup. (with the exception of pet sorcs)


Why you make a list of things that can not be dodge to proof your point is beyond me. And cfrag is not on the list, but it was exactly this ability that let you made these posts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[edited for baiting]

pieratsos

gammelscroll wrote: »

Ive been testing in game now. When you are a melee caracter on top of the sorc, there is no chance in hell to see the travel time, cause there is no *** travel time when you are on top of the sorc.

from when a sorc push a instant cast frag and the time it hits you ( still on the sorc) we are talking about 0.1-0.2 sek)

so pls show me your skills that u have the reaction time to dodge roll a 0.1 sek travel time cast

If you are playing a squishy melee character and you stay in a sorc's face without dodging/blocking and cant pay attention to their easily telegraphed burst then you should die. And thats becaue you are a bad player.

Instant cast skills doesnt mean undodgeable even if they are used in melee range. If you see a NB ambushing then there is a very high chance that incap will follow. You dodge. If an ability can be dodged it means its dodgeable. An ability being dodgeable doesnt mean that the game will dodge it for you.

Your lack of knowledge about in game mechanics and how each class works doesnt mean that all instant cast skills are undodgeable.

ak_pvp

The problem with sorcs isn't burst. Their burst is ST and telegraphed as heck. The problem is having shields with the least counter of any defense mechanism and keeping the damage/mobility up. I'd even say things like mines needs a damage buff to make them more dangerous AoD than lel roll/mist. And the Cfrags 10% dmg nerf was stupid, did nothing but hurt pve more.

Implosion is also lowkey cancer but eh.

OdinForge

You shouldn't zerg sorcs as a squishy melee build spamming gap closers, if you can't pay attention or understand when the frag is coming. Players like you are always the first to die when chasing a sorc (or any good player on any class) around.

[minor edit for quote]