Maintenance for the week of November 18:
[COMPLETE] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
[COMPLETE] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Pirate Skeleton and Shields
-
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Pirate Skeleton bonus:
items) When you take damage, you have a 5% chance to transform into a skeleton and gain Major Protection and Minor Defile for 12 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30% but reducing your healing received by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
Lets keep he focus on:
BUT "reducing your healing received by 15%". Pirate Skeleton has this debuff (minor defile) cause 30% reduced damage (Major Protecion) is very strong. Its a kind of balancing: ill recive 30% less damage but 15% less heals too. Its OK.
Now lets focus on shieldstackers:
1- when you hit a damage shield you are not attacking your opponent's health.
2- shields can be recasted without any penality.
3- shields will recive 30% less damage without any penality.
Conclusion:
Reciving 30% less damage on their shields + shields can be recasted any time + Pirate skeleton will not aplly the debuff on shields = Player will recive 30%less damage "without" any kind of penality. this set has a debuff to balancing its power, so it's a big mistake and it's OP.
I remember when a mistake like this happened with overload+molagkena.
Fix it
Counterpoint: sorcs don't have major mending or major protection on any class ability unlike every other class.
Every you say?
Counterpoint: no other class has hardened ward like sorc
Blazing shield is better tho and still will be next patch. I'm rerolling blazeplar
Are you @Wrobel that's what he said we should do to heavy armor wears.It was a bad idea then still a bad idea now.Moglijuana wrote: »I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
You're acting as if 30% dmg reduction to shields makes a player invulnerable. It does not. They are still susceptible to:
CC
Snares
Poisons
LOS
Major Defile (They already have minor defile)
Shield Durations (6 seconds)
Sets that counter shields
Enchants that counter shields
Shattering Blows CP (now even better in Morrowind)
Lag from wearing the set which prevents bar switching
Proc Sets
Zergs + Groups Larger than their own
The Actual Cooldown from the set proc
Environmental damage (l2 knock ppl off towers)
Most people I find who complain about Pirate Skeleton are simply too lazy to look past the benefits it gives and actually think of ways to counter it. Literally all you do is walk away from them when it procs and continue once it expires.
Or
Keep pressure on the target to keep him on the defensive regardless if he has major protection. Remember YOU CAN STILL DAMAGE A TARGET WHEN HE HAS MAJOR PROTECTION.
This is all coming from someone who mains a L.A. MDK...I have no problem fighting ppl with this set.
* Side note, you DO know that Wardens will have a personal AOE Ulti that follows them, snaring + stunning targets in the AOE AND GIVING MAJOR PROTECTION? Better start a #nerfWarden ulti thread too I guess.
What? Are you talking about the wrath passive? That actually IS a good way to deal with heavy armor users relying on the damage it gives...but what do I know? I just press buttons and stare at my screen hoping for the best.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I joined on this forum after overload nerf
So you have practically no experience in this game, yet call for nerfs...0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Thank you for confirm your @Wrobel.You know what that player is doing while you are walking away they are killing you or healing back to full health.Moglijuana wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Pirate Skeleton bonus:
items) When you take damage, you have a 5% chance to transform into a skeleton and gain Major Protection and Minor Defile for 12 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30% but reducing your healing received by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
Lets keep he focus on:
BUT "reducing your healing received by 15%". Pirate Skeleton has this debuff (minor defile) cause 30% reduced damage (Major Protecion) is very strong. Its a kind of balancing: ill recive 30% less damage but 15% less heals too. Its OK.
Now lets focus on shieldstackers:
1- when you hit a damage shield you are not attacking your opponent's health.
2- shields can be recasted without any penality.
3- shields will recive 30% less damage without any penality.
Conclusion:
Reciving 30% less damage on their shields + shields can be recasted any time + Pirate skeleton will not aplly the debuff on shields = Player will recive 30%less damage "without" any kind of penality. this set has a debuff to balancing its power, so it's a big mistake and it's OP.
I remember when a mistake like this happened with overload+molagkena.
Fix it
Counterpoint: sorcs don't have major mending or major protection on any class ability unlike every other class.
Every you say?
Counterpoint: no other class has hardened ward like sorc
Blazing shield is better tho and still will be next patch. I'm rerolling blazeplar
Are you @Wrobel that's what he said we should do to heavy armor wears.It was a bad idea then still a bad idea now.Moglijuana wrote: »I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
You're acting as if 30% dmg reduction to shields makes a player invulnerable. It does not. They are still susceptible to:
CC
Snares
Poisons
LOS
Major Defile (They already have minor defile)
Shield Durations (6 seconds)
Sets that counter shields
Enchants that counter shields
Shattering Blows CP (now even better in Morrowind)
Lag from wearing the set which prevents bar switching
Proc Sets
Zergs + Groups Larger than their own
The Actual Cooldown from the set proc
Environmental damage (l2 knock ppl off towers)
Most people I find who complain about Pirate Skeleton are simply too lazy to look past the benefits it gives and actually think of ways to counter it. Literally all you do is walk away from them when it procs and continue once it expires.
Or
Keep pressure on the target to keep him on the defensive regardless if he has major protection. Remember YOU CAN STILL DAMAGE A TARGET WHEN HE HAS MAJOR PROTECTION.
This is all coming from someone who mains a L.A. MDK...I have no problem fighting ppl with this set.
* Side note, you DO know that Wardens will have a personal AOE Ulti that follows them, snaring + stunning targets in the AOE AND GIVING MAJOR PROTECTION? Better start a #nerfWarden ulti thread too I guess.
What? Are you talking about the wrath passive? That actually IS a good way to deal with heavy armor users relying on the damage it gives...but what do I know? I just press buttons and stare at my screen hoping for the best.1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wards don't get your physical and spell resistance. Even if you only had 12k of each, that is 20% less damage mitigated.1 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭What you need to realize is that damage against a damage shield will not proc pirate skeleton, it must be health damage to proc it. (Feel free to go test this if you don't believe me)
The damage reduction does work with shields, but shields also have no armor resistance and aren't healing you.0 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭
Thank you for confirm your @Wrobel.You know what that player is doing while you are walking away they are killing you or healing back to full health.Moglijuana wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Pirate Skeleton bonus:
items) When you take damage, you have a 5% chance to transform into a skeleton and gain Major Protection and Minor Defile for 12 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30% but reducing your healing received by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
Lets keep he focus on:
BUT "reducing your healing received by 15%". Pirate Skeleton has this debuff (minor defile) cause 30% reduced damage (Major Protecion) is very strong. Its a kind of balancing: ill recive 30% less damage but 15% less heals too. Its OK.
Now lets focus on shieldstackers:
1- when you hit a damage shield you are not attacking your opponent's health.
2- shields can be recasted without any penality.
3- shields will recive 30% less damage without any penality.
Conclusion:
Reciving 30% less damage on their shields + shields can be recasted any time + Pirate skeleton will not aplly the debuff on shields = Player will recive 30%less damage "without" any kind of penality. this set has a debuff to balancing its power, so it's a big mistake and it's OP.
I remember when a mistake like this happened with overload+molagkena.
Fix it
Counterpoint: sorcs don't have major mending or major protection on any class ability unlike every other class.
Every you say?
Counterpoint: no other class has hardened ward like sorc
Blazing shield is better tho and still will be next patch. I'm rerolling blazeplar
Are you @Wrobel that's what he said we should do to heavy armor wears.It was a bad idea then still a bad idea now.Moglijuana wrote: »I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
You're acting as if 30% dmg reduction to shields makes a player invulnerable. It does not. They are still susceptible to:
CC
Snares
Poisons
LOS
Major Defile (They already have minor defile)
Shield Durations (6 seconds)
Sets that counter shields
Enchants that counter shields
Shattering Blows CP (now even better in Morrowind)
Lag from wearing the set which prevents bar switching
Proc Sets
Zergs + Groups Larger than their own
The Actual Cooldown from the set proc
Environmental damage (l2 knock ppl off towers)
Most people I find who complain about Pirate Skeleton are simply too lazy to look past the benefits it gives and actually think of ways to counter it. Literally all you do is walk away from them when it procs and continue once it expires.
Or
Keep pressure on the target to keep him on the defensive regardless if he has major protection. Remember YOU CAN STILL DAMAGE A TARGET WHEN HE HAS MAJOR PROTECTION.
This is all coming from someone who mains a L.A. MDK...I have no problem fighting ppl with this set.
* Side note, you DO know that Wardens will have a personal AOE Ulti that follows them, snaring + stunning targets in the AOE AND GIVING MAJOR PROTECTION? Better start a #nerfWarden ulti thread too I guess.
What? Are you talking about the wrath passive? That actually IS a good way to deal with heavy armor users relying on the damage it gives...but what do I know? I just press buttons and stare at my screen hoping for the best.
Lol ok bud. At least we know which one out of us blames getting wrecked in PvP on the armor ppl wear lol. L2P please. Enjoy your bridge, troll.
1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sure the set has a Cooldown-- 3 seconds for every 12 that it's up. The low chance to proc has little to do with up-time while in combat-- Even in a 1v1 it procs almost as soon as it's off CD. With all the DoTs and fast ticking channels in Cyro even 2 players hitting on you and it's an instant proc.Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »
Well...Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »Why does Maj. Protection work on a damage shield?
Pretty much everything except armour resists works on damage shield - always been this way. But most are quite small (minor protection) or balanced by an equivalent dmg increase (CP's).
By the same token, anything that increases damage taken affects shields too (like vampire fire vulnerability)
All Pirate skelly has done that wasn't already there is to provide easy access to major protection.
That makes sense.
I do think that the set needs to be toned down, or it's interaction with damage shields changed in some way. As it is now, it has an extremely high up-time which will hardly be affected by ZOS 1% proc chance nerf, and like the OP pointed out, the mSorc shield stack mechanic negates (hehe) the set's built in balancing mechanic.
It's 30% damage reduction aquired with 2 pieces of armor, with very good up-time, on what is already one of the strongest defensive mechanics in Cyrodiil.
80% up time of Panacea (champion morph) will drive you insane then.
30% DMG reduction, 7k hps, 30% more crit for whole group
-Simply because other things are strong it does not mean we should not address things that are over performing.
-Panacea is an Ultimate-- it should be stronger than Skele, right?
-Healing is easily and often debuffed by minor/major defile
-Maj. Protection buff from Light's Champion is less than half that granted by the Pirate Skele set.
1. My point is it's major protection and how it functions with wards, like undeath it's not an issue specific to Skele, you just see Skele, and if Skele gets nerfed you'll see different equally frustrating issues.
2. It is an ultimate, which you'll see everywhere in battlegrounds if you decide to go (I'll live there)
3. And Skele has a cool down and a proc chance?
4. Major Protection is always the same buff.... Wtf you mean less? They're both 30%
Oh BTW higher up time with Champion than Skele if you want
Oh, oops-- I meant duration. Light's Champion provides less than half the duration of Maj. Protection that Skele provides. I absolutely agree, the Ultimate is strong-- I use it occasionally myself.
What are the "different, equally frustrating issues" we will see if Skele is nerfed? If Skele gets nerfed (I'd actually prefer changed) it will be good on any class instead of Over-Performing on 1 class.1 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I've crossed out the things that are not counters. I've even left the ones that are just: "Do damage to your target (proc sets/CP)", which is also not a real susceptibility to players wearing the set. The Cooldown? You've got 3 seconds. Better be paying attention I guess.Moglijuana wrote: »I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
You're acting as if 30% dmg reduction to shields makes a player invulnerable. It does not. They are still susceptible to:
CC
Snares
Poisons
LOS
Major Defile (They already have minor defile)
Shield Durations (6 seconds)
Sets that counter shields
Enchants that counter shields
Shattering Blows CP (now even better in Morrowind)
Lag from wearing the set which prevents bar switching
Proc Sets
Zergs + Groups Larger than their own
The Actual Cooldown from the set proc
Environmental damage (l2 knock ppl off towers)
Most people I find who complain about Pirate Skeleton are simply too lazy to look past the benefits it gives and actually think of ways to counter it. Literally all you do is walk away from them when it procs and continue once it expires.
Oh man, the last one: Zergs. Sorcs wearing Skele are susceptible to being zerged down.
You know that when Zerging down your target is listed as a viable counter-play option the thing you are discussing is super freaking strong!
Edited by kadar on 5 May 2017 00:452 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pirate skeleton needs a nerf, so does trollking.
But imo every proccset should not work in pvp.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I never complained about the armor just saying your suggestion is just as stupid as Wrobel. Walking away doesn't work in the game and to suggest it is idiotic.Moglijuana wrote: »
Thank you for confirm your @Wrobel.You know what that player is doing while you are walking away they are killing you or healing back to full health.Moglijuana wrote: »sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »Pirate Skeleton bonus:
items) When you take damage, you have a 5% chance to transform into a skeleton and gain Major Protection and Minor Defile for 12 seconds, reducing your damage taken by 30% but reducing your healing received by 15%. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.
Lets keep he focus on:
BUT "reducing your healing received by 15%". Pirate Skeleton has this debuff (minor defile) cause 30% reduced damage (Major Protecion) is very strong. Its a kind of balancing: ill recive 30% less damage but 15% less heals too. Its OK.
Now lets focus on shieldstackers:
1- when you hit a damage shield you are not attacking your opponent's health.
2- shields can be recasted without any penality.
3- shields will recive 30% less damage without any penality.
Conclusion:
Reciving 30% less damage on their shields + shields can be recasted any time + Pirate skeleton will not aplly the debuff on shields = Player will recive 30%less damage "without" any kind of penality. this set has a debuff to balancing its power, so it's a big mistake and it's OP.
I remember when a mistake like this happened with overload+molagkena.
Fix it
Counterpoint: sorcs don't have major mending or major protection on any class ability unlike every other class.
Every you say?
Counterpoint: no other class has hardened ward like sorc
Blazing shield is better tho and still will be next patch. I'm rerolling blazeplar
Are you @Wrobel that's what he said we should do to heavy armor wears.It was a bad idea then still a bad idea now.Moglijuana wrote: »I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
You're acting as if 30% dmg reduction to shields makes a player invulnerable. It does not. They are still susceptible to:
CC
Snares
Poisons
LOS
Major Defile (They already have minor defile)
Shield Durations (6 seconds)
Sets that counter shields
Enchants that counter shields
Shattering Blows CP (now even better in Morrowind)
Lag from wearing the set which prevents bar switching
Proc Sets
Zergs + Groups Larger than their own
The Actual Cooldown from the set proc
Environmental damage (l2 knock ppl off towers)
Most people I find who complain about Pirate Skeleton are simply too lazy to look past the benefits it gives and actually think of ways to counter it. Literally all you do is walk away from them when it procs and continue once it expires.
Or
Keep pressure on the target to keep him on the defensive regardless if he has major protection. Remember YOU CAN STILL DAMAGE A TARGET WHEN HE HAS MAJOR PROTECTION.
This is all coming from someone who mains a L.A. MDK...I have no problem fighting ppl with this set.
* Side note, you DO know that Wardens will have a personal AOE Ulti that follows them, snaring + stunning targets in the AOE AND GIVING MAJOR PROTECTION? Better start a #nerfWarden ulti thread too I guess.
What? Are you talking about the wrath passive? That actually IS a good way to deal with heavy armor users relying on the damage it gives...but what do I know? I just press buttons and stare at my screen hoping for the best.
Lol ok bud. At least we know which one out of us blames getting wrecked in PvP on the armor ppl wear lol. L2P please. Enjoy your bridge, troll.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »
Sure the set has a Cooldown-- 3 seconds for every 12 that it's up. The low chance to proc has little to do with up-time while in combat-- Even in a 1v1 it procs almost as soon as it's off CD. With all the DoTs and fast ticking channels in Cyro even 2 players hitting on you and it's an instant proc.Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »
Well...Waffennacht wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »The_Outsider wrote: »Why does Maj. Protection work on a damage shield?
Pretty much everything except armour resists works on damage shield - always been this way. But most are quite small (minor protection) or balanced by an equivalent dmg increase (CP's).
By the same token, anything that increases damage taken affects shields too (like vampire fire vulnerability)
All Pirate skelly has done that wasn't already there is to provide easy access to major protection.
That makes sense.
I do think that the set needs to be toned down, or it's interaction with damage shields changed in some way. As it is now, it has an extremely high up-time which will hardly be affected by ZOS 1% proc chance nerf, and like the OP pointed out, the mSorc shield stack mechanic negates (hehe) the set's built in balancing mechanic.
It's 30% damage reduction aquired with 2 pieces of armor, with very good up-time, on what is already one of the strongest defensive mechanics in Cyrodiil.
80% up time of Panacea (champion morph) will drive you insane then.
30% DMG reduction, 7k hps, 30% more crit for whole group
-Simply because other things are strong it does not mean we should not address things that are over performing.
-Panacea is an Ultimate-- it should be stronger than Skele, right?
-Healing is easily and often debuffed by minor/major defile
-Maj. Protection buff from Light's Champion is less than half that granted by the Pirate Skele set.
1. My point is it's major protection and how it functions with wards, like undeath it's not an issue specific to Skele, you just see Skele, and if Skele gets nerfed you'll see different equally frustrating issues.
2. It is an ultimate, which you'll see everywhere in battlegrounds if you decide to go (I'll live there)
3. And Skele has a cool down and a proc chance?
4. Major Protection is always the same buff.... Wtf you mean less? They're both 30%
Oh BTW higher up time with Champion than Skele if you want
Oh, oops-- I meant duration. Light's Champion provides less than half the duration of Maj. Protection that Skele provides. I absolutely agree, the Ultimate is strong-- I use it occasionally myself.
What are the "different, equally frustrating issues" we will see if Skele is nerfed? If Skele gets nerfed (I'd actually prefer changed) it will be good on any class instead of Over-Performing on 1 class.
Skele has a high up time agreed, the change I've seen that seems fair would be a self imposed minor maim.
However, the set can't be nerfed in terms of the major protection, unless they change the entire mechanic itself. Proc chance and duration can change, however as you point out, duration on Skele can be moot if so many attacks are occuring it procs.
Meaning Skele performs better when being 1vX, so a "nerf" outside what they have currently done seems unviable.
Now champ is freaking marvelous in 1v1 especially and grows better with more allies. It's up time can be just as high as Skeles
I have played with Champ and bloodspawn on my sorc. If I ever needed champ, it was available that's how inexpensive it is. And with an apparently "heavy attack" meta coming, (which would logically mean longer TTK) then heals will be more valuable than before.Edited by Waffennacht on 5 May 2017 02:201 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
So what? Why is it OK for self-healers to have all these buffs like Major Mending and Major Vitality, but ward users can't have even ONE buff that helps us? Not to mention the fact that self-healers get to double dip in the Champion System and buff healing coming and going!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Teheheee!
Yeah, go ahead! Nerf it!
Nerf my monster set that only shines in 1vX. Make me use Shadowrend with Necropotence instead, so that I can nuke your butt with the increased magicka. And make me frontbar both shields to effect them with Necro so I don't even have to switch bars for shieldstack!
Excellent idea! Can't wait for the follow-up threads whining about OP Necrosorcs!
Go ahead, shoot yourself in the foot. In the end, seasoned sorcs will kick your butt no matter what! Yes, that rhymed!
>=31 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
So what? Why is it OK for self-healers to have all these buffs like Major Mending and Major Vitality, but ward users can't have even ONE buff that helps us? Not to mention the fact that self-healers get to double dip in the Champion System and buff healing coming and going!
Healing and Damage shields are different. Healing comes with the inherent risk of actually losing HP and being pushed closer to death. Healing debuffs are also widely available, commonly used, and quite powerful while "debuffing" shields requires a niche build (barring the odd exception, no one really does it). The aim of damage shields is to prevent a loss of HP, thereby mitigating risk, and keeping the user far from execute range and death. Easily accessible, very high up-time, very little counter-play, very little down side Maj. Protection is over-performing on a damage shield build.Edited by kadar on 5 May 2017 05:084 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭2- shields can be recasted without any penality.
Try to cast a shield when an ennemi stun you , you will see , it's very difficult to cast a shield when you are Oom of stamina and stun .
1 -
mtwiggz✭✭✭✭✭I enjoy how this thread went from nerf Pirate Skeleton to nerf Magicka Sorc.
The issue here is completely due to the fact that you have all reward and no risk. The Major Protection buff should not apply to damage shields. If you cannot debuff a damage shield why should you be able to buff one?
@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert
Either make it so damage shields can be debuffed, or make it so damage shields cannot be buffed. Simple logical fix. There ZoS, I gave you the answer, just implement it.Edited by mtwiggz on 5 May 2017 07:576 -
LordSlif✭✭✭✭I enjoy how this thread went from nerf Pirate Skeleton to nerf Magicka Sorc.
The issue here is completely due to the fact that you have all reward and no risk. The Major Protection buff should not apply to damage shields. If you cannot debuff a damage shield why should you be able to buff one?
@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert
Either make it so damage shields can be debuffed, or make it so damage shields cannot be buffed. Simple logical fix. There ZoS, I gave you the answer, just implement it.
YEAH BRO! u got a point. This is what i saidEdited by LordSlif on 5 May 2017 11:191 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I did not say sorcs and pirate, i said shields and pirate, but it's fun see how sorcs knows that them are op with this set. lol
There are a lot of long time sorc players that admit that pirate + shields is straight up broken aswell though.
Imo the biggest problem is the combination of pirate + healing ward + vampirism - as that´s the only combination that can make you virtually unkillable if you drop to low health but don´t die.
That´s a case where pirate skeletons healing debuff is directly beneficial and it´s due to the design of healing ward - increasing it´s shieldstrengh with lower HP on the recipient of the shield.
TBH a lot of the issues with pirate would instantly be fixed if they changed the healing debuff into major maim reducing outgoing dmg by 30%.
If it´s intended to be a tank set tackle the dmg output when it´s active. Problem solved.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pirate skeleton needs a nerf, so does trollking.
But imo every proccset should not work in pvp.
That would imo make for very onedimensional builds. Also where do you draw the line? Ravager and fury for example are pvp specific "procc" sets.
Is clever alchemist a procc set?
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
LordSlif✭✭✭✭I did not say sorcs and pirate, i said shields and pirate, but it's fun see how sorcs knows that them are op with this set. lol
There are a lot of long time sorc players that admit that pirate + shields is straight up broken aswell though.
Imo the biggest problem is the combination of pirate + healing ward + vampirism - as that´s the only combination that can make you virtually unkillable if you drop to low health but don´t die.
That´s a case where pirate skeletons healing debuff is directly beneficial and it´s due to the design of healing ward - increasing it´s shieldstrengh with lower HP on the recipient of the shield.
TBH a lot of the issues with pirate would instantly be fixed if they changed the healing debuff into major maim reducing outgoing dmg by 30%.
If it´s intended to be a tank set tackle the dmg output when it´s active. Problem solved.
Yup u are right, we have a problem with this set, it's not right how it's working.
@Wrobel0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Derra
You're slightly incorrect. Malubeth, Tremor, Velidreth, etc. all have no drawbacks. ZOS gave Pirate a negative aspect to compensate for the admittedly strong buff. That is an evaluated choice, not a principle one.
It's best compared to Kena. Once a staple as you could circumvent the disadvantages with Overload. After Ilambris and the OL nerf, Kena completely disappeared.
You are suggesting to do the same to Pirate. As I jokingly commented earlier, it'll just get replaced by an even more annoying meta, as Kena. In the end, you'll only have trashed a neat monster set.
Remember Trainee set? ZOS thought it was a... well, training set, and went ahead and nerfed it. Now it's largely gone.
Learn from your mistakes! Ask for buffs, not nerfs, you'll just eliminate the variety! Ask for a Chudan buff, instead, a true tanking set. Ask for a Kena buff (despite Morro changes).
Increase the viable loot pool instead of cutting, I urge you!1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
You are correct, healing and damage shields are different.The_Outsider wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
So what? Why is it OK for self-healers to have all these buffs like Major Mending and Major Vitality, but ward users can't have even ONE buff that helps us? Not to mention the fact that self-healers get to double dip in the Champion System and buff healing coming and going!
Healing and Damage shields are different. Healing comes with the inherent risk of actually losing HP and being pushed closer to death. Healing debuffs are also widely available, commonly used, and quite powerful while "debuffing" shields requires a niche build (barring the odd exception, no one really does it). The aim of damage shields is to prevent a loss of HP, thereby mitigating risk, and keeping the user far from execute range and death. Easily accessible, very high up-time, very little counter-play, very little down side Maj. Protection is over-performing on a damage shield build.
Healing is immediate. Shield are temporary, and they only keep you as "far from execute range and death" as your current health allows. Healing immediately moves you from both of those conditions.
If you keep insisting on proposing shields as providing 'extra health,' be sure to include the fact that they also do 'extra damage' in the form of whatever shield strength remains on expiration. Only healing affects your health bar, and it's written as if heals cannot be spammed just as shield can be.
There's plenty of counter play. A perfect example: Execute range is still execute range when shielded. There are no immortals of any kind in PvP, last I checked.
And this?I use pirate skelly on my light armor magblade. It is definitely overperforming and needs a nerf - whether directly or indirectly through a nerf to major protection.
As to this second point here, you highlight exactly why pirate skelly is so OP. Making the shield 30% stronger makes it so the Sorc/Magblade doesn't have to stack shields as much so they can remain more offensive. So I couldn't agree more: stacking shields = no time to do damage. But then when you make shields 30% stronger via major protection that sure opens up a whole lot more time for the shielded attacker to do damage before they have to reapply their shields.Moglijuana wrote: »2. Pretty sure shields cost magicka = penalty. Are there free shields now? Also, a person stacking shields is doing nothing but turtling. They are doing no damage.
Lol. How does it give more time, exactly? It's not 30% more 6 seconds.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Derra
You're slightly incorrect. Malubeth, Tremor, Velidreth, etc. all have no drawbacks. ZOS gave Pirate a negative aspect to compensate for the admittedly strong buff. That is an evaluated choice, not a principle one.
It's best compared to Kena. Once a staple as you could circumvent the disadvantages with Overload. After Ilambris and the OL nerf, Kena completely disappeared.
You are suggesting to do the same to Pirate. As I jokingly commented earlier, it'll just get replaced by an even more annoying meta, as Kena. In the end, you'll only have trashed a neat monster set.
Remember Trainee set? ZOS thought it was a... well, training set, and went ahead and nerfed it. Now it's largely gone.
Learn from your mistakes! Ask for buffs, not nerfs, you'll just eliminate the variety! Ask for a Chudan buff, instead, a true tanking set. Ask for a Kena buff (despite Morro changes).
Increase the viable loot pool instead of cutting, I urge you!
I still know people using kena. It´s a great set and gets buffed next patch.
If they change the debuff on pirate skeleton to major maim it would still be a great tank set - even better for tanks than it was previously.
However it would no longer be a vaible set on DDs. I think that would be a good thing.
They could be looking into minor defile minor maim aswell - to make it less appealing on healers. The duration could be adressed aswell - idk.
Just change what it currently offers.Edited by Derra on 5 May 2017 14:10<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But, would a tank really run it over Bloodspawn or similar? I doubt it. If so, it would be a fair trade.0 -
grim_tactics✭✭✭✭✭As a Sorc I think this set needs to be taken out.
I mean - if I shield, this procs, and I'm at low health as Vamp - unkillable.
I enjoy running Skoria with lightning Staff and boundless storm. Confused so many ppl when I immediately chase them down in duels because Boundless will proc Skoria - heavy lightning attacks can't be dodged and keeping Curse up is pretty funny. Add meteor to it and some people think you're somehow hacking when 5-6 meteors just fall from the sky during the fight and theyre laying on the ground from Destructive Reach.
Had 1 guy literally lose his mind because he thought I was hacking meteor Ult even though they look completely different.Edited by grim_tactics on 5 May 2017 17:362
