Vigor, Caltrops, & War Horn

Taleof2Cities

As others have said, it's so easy to get the AP required for those skills now. It used to be much harder at launch.

Rainwhisper

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

It's ridiculous. I despise PvP in every form, and have zero interest in it. I just live without those skills.

Rainwhisper

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Considering that I could sneeze and make 100k AP, but I just reached level 7 Undaunted on my main character last week after almost 2 years ... well ... I disagree.

Which means that an experienced PvP'er could do this, but I, as an experienced PvE'er don't even know if 100k AP is a lot, and I have zero idea how I might go about getting it if I wanted it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Rainwhisper wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Considering that I could sneeze and make 100k AP, but I just reached level 7 Undaunted on my main character last week after almost 2 years ... well ... I disagree.

Which means that an experienced PvP'er could do this, but I, as an experienced PvE'er don't even know if 100k AP is a lot, and I have zero idea how I might go about getting it if I wanted it.

As many have stated you basically only need to go to PVP, type looking for Zerg and then cast your resto staff. You'll get 1.5k for taking a resource and 6k for a keep minimum. Killing players (or healing others who kill players) will get you a handful to thousands of AP each depending on who the player is. You can also repair walls and doors for 60ish AP a kit.

If you do nothing but this you'll get 100k in an evening.

TheRealPotoroo

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

Yeah, that's really going to work for my stamDK tank.

TheRealPotoroo

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

My my oh my these kind of threads just keep on coming! :sigh:

They will never end because PvP is such a miserable experience.

Rainwhisper

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

My my oh my these kind of threads just keep on coming! :sigh:

With good reason. It's a very unpopular design decision. I think it could be easily resolved by only allowing PvP skills to be used in Cyrodiil.

rotaugen454

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

Yeah, that's really going to work for my stamDK tank.

Actually, it would. I did it with a Stam character.

Izaki

Rainwhisper wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Considering that I could sneeze and make 100k AP, but I just reached level 7 Undaunted on my main character last week after almost 2 years ... well ... I disagree.

Which means that an experienced PvP'er could do this, but I, as an experienced PvE'er don't even know if 100k AP is a lot, and I have zero idea how I might go about getting it if I wanted it.

Capture 15 keeps and you have Vigor.

raidentenshu_ESO

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

Do you realize how incredibly BORING that is? It's another pointless grind.

Is this what ZOS wants us to do? To go to Cyrodill and spend an entire day using the restro staff? Jesus I rather use that time collecting mages guild lore books, and go skyshard hunting. At least while I'm doing that my weapon skills, and my class skills get upgraded.

I aint gonna waste my time waving a restro staff all day long.

alexkdd99

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

My my oh my these kind of threads just keep on coming! :sigh:

Along with capes, bots, dragons, kicking pugs, and auction house threads. Somehow most of these threads actually take off and get a decent post count, I guess because people like controversy and if there is something to argue about people eat it up.

Myself included.

TheRealPotoroo

Sigma957 wrote: »

Should have been in Cyrodiil during double AP event, would have unlocked vigor/warhorn in about 30 minutes.

I was. Stop talking garbage.

Everstorm

Jamini wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Before ESO the TES series was a single player series. For a lot of fans the MMO change was already a big step, adding PvP on top of that is a bridge too far.
But as usual the pvp adepts are unable or unwilling to look at it from a perspective other than their own. Not realising it's that very attitude that makes PvE players not even want to try it out. You're create a very unwelcoming atmosphere.

Er, no offense, but most of the time when I see someone bashing PvP they are of recruit rank, with no time at all in cyrodiil, and probably don't even have rapids unlocked. I've known a few people that refuse to even step into cyrodiil (literally just enter, do one quest, and leave the zone) to get rapid maneuvers.

More than half the people who I've actually convinced to try PvP found they didn't hate it nearly as much as they thought they would. A few even really enjoyed it! One person I know, after trying PvP for the first time, ended up on that month's leaderboard after their first try.

It does not matter how welcoming a group is to newcomers if potential newcomers literally refuse to even step into the zone. Cyrodiil is one of the most forgiving zones in the game. Your health is buffed, damage you take is reduced, and battle scaling makes anyone pre-160 extremely strong. In PvP Deaths cost literally nothing, siege is cheap, plentiful, and vital for a group. The only excuse that is really acceptable (to me) for not being willing to enter Cyrodiil at least once (to get rapid manuvers) is if your computer cannot handle the graphics lag associated with PvP.

You're right. I already had assault/support at lvl 3 without doing any actual pvp but tonight I joined the zerg and am now at 4.5. Died a few dozen times, got confused a lot, annoyed by loading screens, running all over just to be late or died on arrival. But it was quite fun. Best thing to do is to not take the ppl that take pvp too seriously too seriously.

Magdalina

Rainwhisper wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Considering that I could sneeze and make 100k AP, but I just reached level 7 Undaunted on my main character last week after almost 2 years ... well ... I disagree.

Which means that an experienced PvP'er could do this, but I, as an experienced PvE'er don't even know if 100k AP is a lot, and I have zero idea how I might go about getting it if I wanted it.

Flipping a keep(assuming there were no enemy players in it for extra AP and you just had to bring down walls and kill npcs for that) grants 6k ap on its own. If enemy players die during that, you get bonus ap on top. Flipping an outpost is 3k, a resource 1.5k - resources are something very possible to solo too, it's like having to kill a well organized mob pack in PvE - a healer, a tank, some melee, some ranged, and a lot of cc coming your way.

You also get ap for doing daily quests in towns, those have nothing to do with actual PvP whatsoever. Unfortunately I haven't tried them since they added AP so can't confirm how much it is, but there're quite a few of them. You get ap for repairing walls and resurrecting dead players. You also get ap for healing players, which is an easy way to farm it. Naturally you get ap for killing players too, if several players all land blows on one person the ap for his death will be split between them. It's generally pretty easy to join a huge pick up group in /zone though(people wil often call them zergs) and just follow the leader trying to land some attack/heals and getting the ap for all the kills anyone in your group makes.

There're also daily PvP quests such as "kill 20 templars/sorcs/nbs/dks/players", "capture castle X", "capture resource X of castle Y" and "scout a resource Z of castle Q". The latter 2 are perfectly soloable without having to face another player. The general's "capture scroll X" quest also rewards some ap but capturing a scroll is an all-alliance effort and doesn't happen that often. However, if you have the scroll's quest as your alliance captures it, you will get credit for it no matter where on the map you are.

There, now you have some idea Whether or not you choose to put that idea to good use is up to you though.

Biro123

Number_51 wrote: »

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of this but I think you can level Undaunted to 10 in about 3 days, maybe 4 , and not have to group or do daily pledges. The Daily Delve quest from Bolgrul is worth 30 guild points. You can only pick up 1 quest per day on each character, but they can be shared. There are 15 Daily Delve quests, for 450 guild points per day. This is where I may be incorrect... I've never personally done more then 6 per day, so it's possible you aren't allowed to do all 15. If you can do all 15, the 450 points per day, plus the "Buy me a drink" achievement and some points from the damage, blocker and healer achievements, should put you well on the way to the 1500 points you need for rank 10.

As I said I've never done more then 6 in a day but I ranked up enough to grab Inner Fire (rank 3 I think, 150 points) on a new character in a couple hours.

ETA: And again I'm off-topic. It really takes almost no time to level up Assault and Support skills these days. Even if you're terrible at PVP (like me), or don't like it at all (like I used to), I don't really see a need for change or for it to be made even easier. I'm glad I was forced to try it to get these skills, and even though I still didn't like it after my first few characters, I've come to a point where I actually have 2 dedicated PVP characters out of my 20.

I don't understand this at all.. First you say you can get undaunted in 3-4 days without having to group... Then say Bogruls quests are worth 30 points.. They were only 5 for me.. Then say they can be shared.. SO you have to group then? ANd besides, who groups to do delve quests? And besides.. just like many PVEers don't have a clue how to earn AP in PVP - many PVPers don't have regular groups for doing PVE stuff... Yeah I did bogruls quests.. for 5 a pop.. If I only did that it would have taken 40 days worth of them to go from undaunted lvl 8 to 9. But I did pledges too.. but being someone who knows he isn't a pve-er didn't want to burden other groups with me - and after all the threads on here talking about the toxicity of groups in PVE - especially randoms - well I solo'd my pledges. Yeah, there were only certain ones I could do - and yeah, I could only usually do one per day..

So yeah, for the dedicated PVPer - its a helluva long grind..

But then you say you have 2 pvp characters out of 20!! idk man, I only get 8 slots.

Enslaved

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

Yeah, that's really going to work for my stamDK tank.

Worked for mine. And he was lvl 10 when I got him to PvP. You can easy respec points later, to get all you put into restoration back.

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

Do you realize how incredibly BORING that is? It's another pointless grind.

Is this what ZOS wants us to do? To go to Cyrodill and spend an entire day using the restro staff? Jesus I rather use that time collecting mages guild lore books, and go skyshard hunting. At least while I'm doing that my weapon skills, and my class skills get upgraded.

I aint gonna waste my time waving a restro staff all day long.

Feel free to do it your way. Next time Valkyn Skoria sends flames on your ass, hit her with a lorebook. That will heal you, for sure.

Sigma957

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

Should have been in Cyrodiil during double AP event, would have unlocked vigor/warhorn in about 30 minutes.

I was. Stop talking garbage.

It's not garbage, capturing a keep with players being killed was over 20k AP and there were plenty of keeps and resources being taken, I should know as I was there too.

MCBIZZLE300

I like that it requires pvp to get these skills, it makes people try pvp and its rewarding when they are all unlocked.

Banana

Go Magika, then PVP isn't needed.

ScooberSteve

I love these crybaby threads.

Asardes

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Considering that I could sneeze and make 100k AP, but I just reached level 7 Undaunted on my main character last week after almost 2 years ... well ... I disagree.

Undaunted 9 takes me 5-6 days of doing all 3 vet HM pledges, simply from getting those achievements. I usually start out around 4, which can be gotten without actually setting foot in an instanced group dungeon. Well, if you don't play content and/or use that skill you can't expect it to grow. And a week is still much more than it takes to unlock the essential PvP skills. Vigor is 100K AP. Warhorn & barrier is less than that and Caltrops slightly more, but not by much.

Asardes

Rainwhisper wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

It's ridiculous. I despise PvP in every form, and have zero interest in it. I just live without those skills.

Actually it's pretty hard to actually live trough end game PvE content without vigor, as a stamina character

Asardes

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

My my oh my these kind of threads just keep on coming! :sigh:

Along with capes, bots, dragons, kicking pugs, and auction house threads. Somehow most of these threads actually take off and get a decent post count, I guess because people like controversy and if there is something to argue about people eat it up.

Myself included.

I guess people could actually play the game and farm the things they dread instead of farming forum rating by creating threads to complain about them

Everstorm

Asardes wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

My my oh my these kind of threads just keep on coming! :sigh:

Along with capes, bots, dragons, kicking pugs, and auction house threads. Somehow most of these threads actually take off and get a decent post count, I guess because people like controversy and if there is something to argue about people eat it up.

Myself included.

I guess people could actually play the game and farm the things they dread instead of farming forum rating by creating threads to complain about them

It will be faster to just bite the bullet than to wait for ZOS to change it.

Asardes

I actually dislike some of the recent AP gain changes they made, because it dumbed down PvP even more. During the event I tried to PvP a bit - I don't dislike it the slightest, but I simply had other priorities - only to find out that the queue was huge and once in to get near Bleakers and have the game simply time me out and throw me out of Cyrodiil, at the beginning of an 100+ queue again. Only to find out later by inquiring on guild chats that people were just flipping that outpost back and forth, without actually fighting. Such a colossal waste of time and an exploit IMO. AP should be awarded for actually fighting other people and doing useful stuff. AP for flipping empty resources and keeps should be cut to where it was before Homestead. That aspect of the scoring system encourages brainless, annoying gameplay like that. And I bet ZoS changed it in the current update specifically to please whiners that come on forum sobbing that they can't get those skills fast enough.

TL:DR AP gain should primarily come from killing or healing players, repairing an occupied keep, preferably during a siege and successfully defending or taking such a keep. Empty keeps and resources should not earn any AP whatsoever.

raj72616a

think of it like a festival event. it's hectic and funny.

we pvers do not care whether or not our alliance win in cyrodiil anyway.

go watch dozens and dozens of zergs clash with each others and see them die like flies despise your non stop healing. watch ppl futily try to lead the zergs to attak with strategy, only for them to disband and go after whatever they fancy.

sometimes you might get a small group to make down a keep with just two or three persons when the main forces are busy. it's pure pve when the enemy alliances are not coming.

if you get killed, you dont lose rank you dont lose gold you dont lose nothing. just keep going at it again. you can just surf with the zerg, make no contribution, and still earn tons of AP.

remember to spend the AP on buying some pretty flags and banners of your alliance after you're done with the skills and leave cyrodiil, and put them in your house as souvenir from the festival.

Maff

I'm sure if people asked in cyrodiil zone chat for help levelling skills up you would get a group invite pretty quick. There are just as many helpful people in PvP as there are PvE zones. And all it really takes to get AP is to be in the right place at the right time. If you don't want to use a resto staff you can use ranged attacks and AOE skills, buy a ballista and stay on keep walls away from the fight.

Also you can run through a cyrodiil delve and kill a boss for a 20% AP gain boost for an hour to make things go much quicker.

Lore_lai

Oh, the seasonal Vigor/Caltrops QQ thread.

More of these and ZoS will cave in and move them to some PvE line and require you to collect 5683769837 FG banners or some other nonsense, which will most likely take more than getting it currently, and at the end of it you will want to throw your PC out the window.

Careful what you wish for...

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I made 123k AP in 3 hours last night without farming, or spamming a resto staff. I don't even use a resto staff. Getting 20k AP an hour can be done by ANYONE.

code65536

usmcjdking wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

90k ap for vigor. Please leave it out bro.

You know for vigor it used to be something like 500k AP right? Proxy was like 900k back in the day.

People got it so easy now.

And lol at "grind" do you even grind bruh? You get a minimum of 6.5k for capping one keep and 1500 for one farm or mine...compared to just 25 per resource a few months ago, heck I got a 20k tick fighting over a mine at Alessia last night.

Seriously get out of the age of entitlement and face my wrecking blow spam.

Vigor used to be AR10.

Who was the first emp with vigor again on Azura's NA PC? Can't remember his name but legit no one could kill him and he was the only one on NA with vigor lol.

Not only that, but Assault 10 used to require Centurion Grade 2. Over 6 million AP. And on top of that, this was back in the days when AP trickled and was so much harder to earn. There's a reason why, when vMA was first released, a 2H was pretty much required for stam toons, since so few people had Vigor, and Rally was the go-to stam heal.

The complaints about the accessibility of these skills is why the grind for them has already been reduced by 90% or more. The people who still complain about them have no idea what it used to be like.