Vigor, Caltrops, & War Horn

MakeMeUhSamich · March 2017

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Baconfat79 · March 2017

The logic is that it forces people to give PvP a try. The "grind" is a fraction of what it used to be. Easily completed over a weekend, just a few hours per night. I don't see much of a problem.

BadLuckCharm · March 2017

That's where you get them?? Ah. Oh. I see.
Well then. Huh.

I'm guessing the Templar speed boost comes from that too? (or at least it seems to be just templars that do that...) Guess i'll have to look up what else comes from PvP only.

Enslaved · March 2017

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

BadLuckCharm · March 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

Ok..... maybe.

You got me to go from "No absolutely not never-no-nada-niet" to "Maybe".
We'll see. Maybe.

SienneYviete · March 2017

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

The couple of hours to grind your pvp skill lines business we have now is absolutely nothing on the long drawn out grind it used to be, as has been said it's to get boots on the ground in cyro and give it a go. Unlocking some of the best support skills and ultimate's in the game is well worth it.

DRXHarbinger · March 2017

90k ap for vigor. Please leave it out bro.

You know for vigor it used to be something like 500k AP right? Proxy was like 900k back in the day.

People got it so easy now.

And lol at "grind" do you even grind bruh? You get a minimum of 6.5k for capping one keep and 1500 for one farm or mine...compared to just 25 per resource a few months ago, heck I got a 20k tick fighting over a mine at Alessia last night.

Seriously get out of the age of entitlement and face my wrecking blow spam.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · March 2017

Vigor was a stamina heal added at a time when PvE was pure magic so you can't retroactively want it in one of the guilds now that pure magic is not standard (ranged magic is still king in PvE).

War Horn was made to help the raid that it's useful in PvE makes no difference it's just a good ultimate for supporting characters to run.

Caltrops have a morph that has zero used outside of PvP. Have you seen that undaunted passives the ones locked behind that PvE wall.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2017

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Vigor was a stamina heal added at a time when PvE was pure magic so you can't retroactively want it in one of the guilds now that pure magic is not standard (ranged magic is still king in PvE).

War Horn was made to help the raid that it's useful in PvE makes no difference it's just a good ultimate for supporting characters to run.

Caltrops have a morph that has zero used outside of PvP. Have you seen that undaunted passives the ones locked behind that PvE wall.

The morph you are talking about lasts longer, so it actually does more DPS then the other, if the fights last more then 35 seconds.

Sneaky-Snurr · March 2017

My my oh my these kind of threads just keep on coming! :sigh:

usmcjdking · March 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

90k ap for vigor. Please leave it out bro.

You know for vigor it used to be something like 500k AP right? Proxy was like 900k back in the day.

People got it so easy now.

And lol at "grind" do you even grind bruh? You get a minimum of 6.5k for capping one keep and 1500 for one farm or mine...compared to just 25 per resource a few months ago, heck I got a 20k tick fighting over a mine at Alessia last night.

Seriously get out of the age of entitlement and face my wrecking blow spam.

Vigor used to be AR10.

Who was the first emp with vigor again on Azura's NA PC? Can't remember his name but legit no one could kill him and he was the only one on NA with vigor lol.

AsheronRealaidain · March 2017

AP is so easy to get, there's really no reason to complain about this anymore. Spend a couple hours in a group and you're good. The real enemy we should be banding together against here is getting Mages Guild 10. Talk about dreading a grind. I just spent daaaays farming books on my new Magicka DK, finally hit 10 today. Took him out in Cyrodiil for the first time tonight and I logged off at Assault/Support 6 after just a few hours.

Sneaky-Snurr · March 2017

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

AP is so easy to get, there's really no reason to complain about this anymore. Spend a couple hours in a group and you're good. The real enemy we should be banding together against here is getting Mages Guild 10. Talk about dreading a grind. I just spent daaaays farming books on my new Magicka DK, finally hit 10 today. Took him out in Cyrodiil for the first time tonight and I logged off at Assault/Support 6 after just a few hours.

@AsheronRealaidain
Hitting lvl 10 in Mages Guild skill line isn't hard though. It's just very boring and time consuming having to walk around every zone just to find those blue aura books even with the addon that pinpoints where all the books are.
I find that grinding Undaunted is much more difficult. Heck I feel it's the hardest to grind to level 10.

SickDuck · March 2017

Questioning a stupid design is not the same as feeling entitled to get for free. Forced pvp-pve marriage still causing troubles in both sides, while ZOS is still experimenting with core mechanics after 3 years in order to balance both at the same time. A task that imho was doomed from start.

Vigor shouldn't be in pvp at all, it is an absolute basic skill all around for stamina. If there were no other place to put it should have been the first skill in the line. Very lazy design: stamina needed one heal and it was the least effort to add in pvp.

Caltrops should be a pure utility skill with a tiny dot maybe. Generally pvp skill should add strategic advantage in pvp. There are plenty class and weapon skills for damage dealing.

War Horn should work only in pvp. ZOS is complaining about high damage ceiling and goes into a nerf war while providing this massive booster. It is unnecessary in pve but cannot be ignored in its current form. This slot could have been a pvp exclusive ultimate replacing the need for Meteor.

There are only 10 pvp specific skills yet 3(-4-5-6?) of them are widely used in pve. That's a great loss since pve has plenty of skill anyway. Constantly lowering the requirements to get these is just another lazy solution supporting this bad design.

AKSb16_ESO2 · March 2017

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

I always thought these skills only work in PVP, I never bothered getting them. xD
I know better now but still don't need them.

Everstorm · March 2017

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

AP is so easy to get, there's really no reason to complain about this anymore. Spend a couple hours in a group and you're good. The real enemy we should be banding together against here is getting Mages Guild 10.

Gathering books doesn't subject you to toxic smacktalk. It's not about how long it takes but a lot of ppl would rather face the dentist then that environment.

notimetocare · March 2017

Everstorm wrote: »

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

AP is so easy to get, there's really no reason to complain about this anymore. Spend a couple hours in a group and you're good. The real enemy we should be banding together against here is getting Mages Guild 10.

Gathering books doesn't subject you to toxic smacktalk. It's not about how long it takes but a lot of ppl would rather face the dentist then that environment.

Ignore. Disable zone chat. Offline mode. Grow a pair.

Plenty of options to deal with chat.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

SickDuck wrote: »

Questioning a stupid design is not the same as feeling entitled to get for free. Forced pvp-pve marriage still causing troubles in both sides, while ZOS is still experimenting with core mechanics after 3 years in order to balance both at the same time. A task that imho was doomed from start.

Vigor shouldn't be in pvp at all, it is an absolute basic skill all around for stamina. If there were no other place to put it should have been the first skill in the line. Very lazy design: stamina needed one heal and it was the least effort to add in pvp.

Caltrops should be a pure utility skill with a tiny dot maybe. Generally pvp skill should add strategic advantage in pvp. There are plenty class and weapon skills for damage dealing.

War Horn should work only in pvp. ZOS is complaining about high damage ceiling and goes into a nerf war while providing this massive booster. It is unnecessary in pve but cannot be ignored in its current form. This slot could have been a pvp exclusive ultimate replacing the need for Meteor.

There are only 10 pvp specific skills yet 3(-4-5-6?) of them are widely used in pve. That's a great loss since pve has plenty of skill anyway. Constantly lowering the requirements to get these is just another lazy solution supporting this bad design.

I, like many other players, play both PvP and PvE. In my opinion, it will be very frustrating for these people if PvE and PvP are balanced separately. They will want the consistency, it's the same freaking game. It's ok if there are only a few changes and they are are minor like less healing in PvP or negate doesn't stun in PvP, but it will be frustrating if every freaking thing plays out differently. "I like this ability, I will use it in PvP. Wait a minute, it is banned from PvP and there's some useless junk taking its place, what?".

The real question is, how many players who play both, and how many players who just play one thing and despise the other? We are not talking about the vocal minority here, we are talking about all people who play the game.

Sigma957 · March 2017

Should have been in Cyrodiil during double AP event, would have unlocked vigor/warhorn in about 30 minutes.

Everstorm · March 2017

notimetocare wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

AsheronRealaidain wrote: »

AP is so easy to get, there's really no reason to complain about this anymore. Spend a couple hours in a group and you're good. The real enemy we should be banding together against here is getting Mages Guild 10.

Gathering books doesn't subject you to toxic smacktalk. It's not about how long it takes but a lot of ppl would rather face the dentist then that environment.

Ignore. Disable zone chat. Offline mode. Grow a pair.

Plenty of options to deal with chat.

You're completely right but you don't understand how a lot of ppl simply loath anything that has to do with pvp.
Add to that the amount of complaints on these boards from active pvp players about the current state of Cyrodiil and ppl simply don't feel like it's worth trying out.

raidentenshu_ESO · March 2017

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Because ZOS wants us to painfully enter Cyrodiil and do more stupid grinding despite wanting to do PVE only.

Seriously... I don't know why ZOS couldn't just add these abilities to the undaunted/Mages guild and fighters guild as a skill.

With ZOS in charge of things their is no fun allowed.

MakeMeUhSamich · March 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

That very well may be my new strategy!

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2017

Considering that I could sneeze and make 100k AP, but I just reached level 7 Undaunted on my main character last week after almost 2 years ... well ... I disagree.

Izaki · March 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Because ZOS wants us to painfully enter Cyrodiil and do more stupid grinding despite wanting to do PVE only.

Seriously... I don't know why ZOS couldn't just add these abilities to the undaunted/Mages guild and fighters guild as a skill.

With ZOS in charge of things their is no fun allowed.

1. Its not a grind.
2. Because they want to make sure that everyone gives PvP a try.

KingJ · March 2017

Should have played few weeks ago could have cheated and exploited ap to get vigor on all your characters like the rest of the carebear Brigade.

Duiwel · March 2017

OP I agree we should get Grand Overlord at 1 million AP.

GreenhaloX · March 2017

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I'm for having a way to also acquire those in PvE land.

DreamClown wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

DreamClown wrote: »

Could someone explain the logic behind making these skills obtainable ONLY from PVP? I'm seriously dreading the AP grind (yet again) for one of my PVE characters.

Step one. Equip resto staff.
Step two. Get into PvP.
Step three. Spam heals.
Step four. Unlock all you ever wanted in a single day.
Step five. You are welcome.

That very well may be my new strategy!

Yeah, yeah and then get wrecked by other toons and zerg.. and press repeat.

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

1. Its not a grind.
2. Because they want to make sure that everyone gives PvP a try.

Sure, why not. It's fine to give it a try with your first toon. You then find out PvP is not for you. Then you create a 2nd toon, but dammit, you have to go back into PvP again to level up for Vigor and Caltrops. Sure, why not. Let's give it another try. 2nd time might be ok or better. Then, you find again PvP is not for you; not to mention more cheats and exploits you come upon. So, a third toon.. oh crap, no other way to get Vigor/Caltrops and forced yet again to head back to PvP, which you dislike. Sure, folks say it's not that long to level up to 5 and 6 (what, from a few hours to maybe a day of gameplay), but when you're forced to go somewhere or do something you don't like, it is not a good or worthwhile experience, whether in-game or in real life. I don't want to create a 4th toon, for the reason I will have to head back into PvP to get, at least the vigor.. because it is the best heal so far that I know. Let those who want Emperorship and can deal with those cheats and exploits have PvP, but for the rest of us who do not like PvP, give us an alternative way to get Vigor/Caltrops without having to go into PvP, each time a new toon is created.

TequilaFire · March 2017

Here we go again, questioning why you should have to PvP to get PvP skills. lmao
At least they are a lot faster to unlock than the undaunted Necrotic Orbs for a PvP player.

Turelus · March 2017

The logic was they were meant to be for PvP, but then people realised how good they were for PvE and everyone had to accept that and go farm them.

Enslaved · March 2017

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Considering that I could sneeze and make 100k AP, but I just reached level 7 Undaunted on my main character last week after almost 2 years ... well ... I disagree.

Well, that is amazing. Did you stay in base for 2 years?

Entegre · March 2017

As a PvP player why do I have to grind PvE for:
Gold
Items
Monster sets
Undaunted
Skill points
Sky shards
Levels
Lore books...