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[COMPLETE] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
An increase in "invincible" builds?
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CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling... what I'm suggesting is not the reason, the devs and designers making bad decisions on how to solve an existing problem is the reason.
I never said people shouldn't be able to maximize their stats or make more efficient play out of good builds!
Its very simple. Caps and limits in PvP. No new armor sets, no debuffs on already existing skills, no new anything. Just don't allow a player to exploit build designs in PvP ...to do that you simply apply proper caps and limits so that everything functions properly and fairly in PvP situations. A major improvement would be making heals more powerful but having a cool down time in between being healed. That alone would change the dynamic in a huge way. (Note: Those caps in limits only need apply while in Cyrodiil. For PvE content there is obviously no need for stats to be capped.)
I feel thing's should have a limit but I don't see that happening in the grand scheme of things, it's just not the direction ZOS wants to go. The game is turning more into skyrim/oblivion online, what I mean by that is they want to allow player's to do whatever they want therefore people will push the game to it's limit like any TES game.
To introduce caps they'd have to revamp thing's or at least remove CP to start, change how dps & healing is intertwined, rework mitigation & damage etc.
The game already had caps before, like I said earlier it just wouldn't fit right now in the game's current state. Which calls for an overhaul and I honestly don't see ZOS doing that.
PS. The healing idea is pretty terrible, would most likely be certain death for fights outnumbered when you can't heal but you're getting smacked by 6 guys.Edited by CatchMeTrolling on 24 March 2017 18:271 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't think caps will work... I mean if the only purpose for adding them is to stop characters being too good at one thing - then instead, they will just be as good as they can be at that one thing - but good at other stuff too with all the leftover stats.
CP's kind of does this already by forcing you to spend an equal number of points in each tree - This is how we get builds that have everything.
I think the problem is that one stat increases both offence AND defence.... Magica affects strength of dmg/heals/shields... Stamina affects strength of dmg/heals(+dodge/block resources).. There is no tradeoff.. I think there needs to be a third stat for defence/heals - so you either boost your dmg stat OR your healing stat.. But its probably too late in the game for that now.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
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Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.3 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think caps will work... I mean if the only purpose for adding them is to stop characters being too good at one thing - then instead, they will just be as good as they can be at that one thing - but good at other stuff too with all the leftover stats.
CP's kind of does this already by forcing you to spend an equal number of points in each tree - This is how we get builds that have everything.
I think the problem is that one stat increases both offence AND defence.... Magica affects strength of dmg/heals/shields... Stamina affects strength of dmg/heals(+dodge/block resources).. There is no tradeoff.. I think there needs to be a third stat for defence/heals - so you either boost your dmg stat OR your healing stat.. But its probably too late in the game for that now.
The real issue CP wise is that you get to put points into every tree pertaining to damage, sustain, mitigation and recovery. You should have to choose between them, rather than have them all.
Oh & removing CP is a little taste of "caps" AND a lot of people hated the no cp weekend that wasn't boosting.Edited by CatchMeTrolling on 24 March 2017 18:460 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭Totally feel ya davey1107. What you're saying about the combat text showing only 150, I was seeing minus damage on some (1k)!
Something is off... no one can argue that it's ridiculous.1 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.... (*gasp* god forbid there be certain death if I'm outnumbered in a combat game... Jesus!)
Edited by BoxFoxx on 24 March 2017 19:091 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?
A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!
How hard is that to understand?0 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭The problem is too many players are too accustomed to the extreme survivability. They make silly comments.1
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BoxFoxx✭✭✭I don't think caps will work... I mean if the only purpose for adding them is to stop characters being too good at one thing - then instead, they will just be as good as they can be at that one thing - but good at other stuff too with all the leftover stats.
CP's kind of does this already by forcing you to spend an equal number of points in each tree - This is how we get builds that have everything.
I think the problem is that one stat increases both offence AND defence.... Magica affects strength of dmg/heals/shields... Stamina affects strength of dmg/heals(+dodge/block resources).. There is no tradeoff.. I think there needs to be a third stat for defence/heals - so you either boost your dmg stat OR your healing stat.. But its probably too late in the game for that now.
I don't see any problem with a player being well rounded (e.g. "being good at other stuff too with all the leftover stats.") The caps shouldn't hinder players from being good. I'm all for strategic build creations. The caps are merely a zone cap, as in... while in Cyrodiil max resistance stats cap at 20k, crit resist at 3k and max health stats cap at 30k (including with buffs) ...or something along those lines, those are still strong stats... ... everything can go back to normal while in PvE.
Honestly, it's a simple fix. Not as complex as you guys are making it appear to be. It really will not effect other areas of your build, only make combat more balanced.
Edited by BoxFoxx on 24 March 2017 19:390 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.... (*gasp* god forbid there be certain death if I'm outnumbered in a combat game... Jesus!)
Was waiting for this, there we have it, this is usually the bias opinion people have. No you shouldn't automatically die because 6 guy's are hitting you if they're bad. You speak of equal playing field & not having an advantage yet you feel a player SHOULDN'T have a chance to fight back just because. God forbid one player has a fighting chance when they are clearly better than the 6 they're up against, god forbid that one guy shows them they still need to L2P. You want the game to cater to bad players, you don't want skill or an even playing field. And I'll assume you're against 1vxing for the most part.
Always the same argument, everyone should have a fighting chance EXCEPT the guy that's outnumbered.
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BoxFoxx✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.... (*gasp* god forbid there be certain death if I'm outnumbered in a combat game... Jesus!)
Was waiting for this, there we have it, this is usually the bias opinion people have. No you shouldn't automatically die because 6 guy's are hitting you if they're bad. You speak of equal playing field & not having an advantage yet you feel a player SHOULDN'T have a chance to fight back just because. God forbid one player has a fighting chance when they are clearly better than the 6 they're up against, god forbid that one guy shows them they still need to L2P. You want the game to cater to bad players, you don't want skill or an even playing field. And I'll assume you're against 1vxing for the most part.
Always the same argument, everyone should have a fighting chance EXCEPT the guy that's outnumbered.
It's not biased... its basic player versus player combat game common sense... you can fight back... but you shouldn't also be so tanky that you automatically beat the odds. Fight back, duck behind a rock, stealth, fleeeeee.... anything you like, all those things are cool... but really, if you think the kind of play style where you can heal endlessly and take very little damage is balanced???
Get your head out of the sand!
It's that kind of thinking that is actually breaking the game.Edited by BoxFoxx on 24 March 2017 19:535 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭...1vXing... I think a skilled player will still be able to do it, even with the caps and limits I've proposed... but he/she also should be prepared to not survive as many battles as well.0
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CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.... (*gasp* god forbid there be certain death if I'm outnumbered in a combat game... Jesus!)
Was waiting for this, there we have it, this is usually the bias opinion people have. No you shouldn't automatically die because 6 guy's are hitting you if they're bad. You speak of equal playing field & not having an advantage yet you feel a player SHOULDN'T have a chance to fight back just because. God forbid one player has a fighting chance when they are clearly better than the 6 they're up against, god forbid that one guy shows them they still need to L2P. You want the game to cater to bad players, you don't want skill or an even playing field. And I'll assume you're against 1vxing for the most part.
Always the same argument, everyone should have a fighting chance EXCEPT the guy that's outnumbered.
It's not biased... its basic player versus player combat game common sense... you can fight back... but you shouldn't also be so tanky that you automatically beat the odds. Fight back, duck behind a rock, stealth, fleeeeee.... anything you like, all those things are cool... but really, if you think the kind of play style where you can heal endlessly and take very little damage is balanced???
Get your head out of the sand!
It's that kind of thinking that is actually breaking the game.
Stop twisting what I say, I'm saying bad players should die because they're bad. You're saying just because it's 6 people you should die for that reason alone, no you SHOULD die because it's 6 people & they're GOOD ENOUGH to kill you not because it's simply 6 of you. You SHOULD get punished for BAD PLAY...
But your level of thinking is exactly what ZOS wants so I don't get what you're complaining about. This "Numbers should automatically win" mentality has been getting put in place patch after patch.
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BoxFoxx✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.... (*gasp* god forbid there be certain death if I'm outnumbered in a combat game... Jesus!)
Was waiting for this, there we have it, this is usually the bias opinion people have. No you shouldn't automatically die because 6 guy's are hitting you if they're bad. You speak of equal playing field & not having an advantage yet you feel a player SHOULDN'T have a chance to fight back just because. God forbid one player has a fighting chance when they are clearly better than the 6 they're up against, god forbid that one guy shows them they still need to L2P. You want the game to cater to bad players, you don't want skill or an even playing field. And I'll assume you're against 1vxing for the most part.
Always the same argument, everyone should have a fighting chance EXCEPT the guy that's outnumbered.
It's not biased... its basic player versus player combat game common sense... you can fight back... but you shouldn't also be so tanky that you automatically beat the odds. Fight back, duck behind a rock, stealth, fleeeeee.... anything you like, all those things are cool... but really, if you think the kind of play style where you can heal endlessly and take very little damage is balanced???
Get your head out of the sand!
It's that kind of thinking that is actually breaking the game.
Stop twisting what I say, I'm saying bad players should die because they're bad. You're saying just because it's 6 people you should die for that reason alone, no you SHOULD die because it's 6 people & they're GOOD ENOUGH to kill you not because it's simply 6 of you. You SHOULD get punished for BAD PLAY...
But your level of thinking is exactly what ZOS wants so I don't get what you're complaining about. This "Numbers should automatically win" mentality has been getting put in place patch after patch.
Well there obviously must be reason for that should there.
I'm not twisting what you say man, you are just misunderstanding the concept of balanced gameplay. You are talking about bad players getting punished and nonsense like that. You have no concern for a game to be what it's meant to be... fun for everyone.
A truly good player can probably kill 6 players if they're skilled enough even with my suggestions. The issue your outlook has, is that you're blaming the imbalance on those 6 players being "bad"... in fact, most of the time they're not bad, you're just most likely overpowered so they look bad. Even the field a bit... then judge their skill level.Edited by BoxFoxx on 25 March 2017 00:042 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?
A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!
How hard is that to understand?
I don´t see why.
They can not kill quick because they are inept.
That can´t be fixed with gamemechanics.
It´s like saying 6 archers missing all their arrows because they´re too dumb to shoot should still beat one skilled shooter simply because they´re 6.
Does not make any sense to me. I´m sorry.Edited by Derra on 24 March 2017 21:20<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A truly good player can probably kill 6 players if their skilled enough even with my suggestions. The issue your outlook has, is that you're blaming the imbalance on those 6 players being "bad"... in fact, most of the time they're not bad, you're just most likely overpowered so they look bad. Even the field a bit... then judge their skill level.
How can you be overpowered though.
If the other 6 are cp600 what advantage is there to have? On nonCP not even that matters. What can actually make someone OP there?Edited by Derra on 24 March 2017 21:23<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?
A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!
How hard is that to understand?
I don´t see why.
They can not kill quick because they are inept.
That can´t be fixed with gamemechanics.
It´s like saying 6 archers missing all their arrows because they´re too dumb to shoot should still beat one skilled shooter simply because they´re 6.
Does not make any sense to me. I´m sorry.
None of those reference are actually the reality that were talking about here. If players are that bad and they die then so be it. So maybe not ANYONE... but the cases of 1xVing should be more difficult for a solo player and take more skill than it currently does. If you win in a 1vX situation it should take actual skill in play not in being a juggernaut. Most of the time in actuality the situation has nothing to do with those players being inept and everything to do with the other player being overpowered and nearly invincible.Edited by BoxFoxx on 24 March 2017 21:271 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?
A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!
How hard is that to understand?
I don´t see why.
They can not kill quick because they are inept.
That can´t be fixed with gamemechanics.
It´s like saying 6 archers missing all their arrows because they´re too dumb to shoot should still beat one skilled shooter simply because they´re 6.
Does not make any sense to me. I´m sorry.
None of those reference are actually the reality that were talking about here. If players are that bad and they die then so be it. So maybe not ANYONE... but the cases of 1xVing should be more difficult for a solo player and take more skill than it currently does. If you win in a 1vX situation it should take actual skill in play not in being a juggernaut. Most of the time in actuality the situation has nothing to do with those players being inept and everything to do with the other player being overpowered and nearly invincible.
Given we´re talking about a nonCP situation here.
What makes a player OP there. Everybody is fighting on even ground except for gear - which is easily obtained.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.... (*gasp* god forbid there be certain death if I'm outnumbered in a combat game... Jesus!)
Was waiting for this, there we have it, this is usually the bias opinion people have. No you shouldn't automatically die because 6 guy's are hitting you if they're bad. You speak of equal playing field & not having an advantage yet you feel a player SHOULDN'T have a chance to fight back just because. God forbid one player has a fighting chance when they are clearly better than the 6 they're up against, god forbid that one guy shows them they still need to L2P. You want the game to cater to bad players, you don't want skill or an even playing field. And I'll assume you're against 1vxing for the most part.
Always the same argument, everyone should have a fighting chance EXCEPT the guy that's outnumbered.
It's not biased... its basic player versus player combat game common sense... you can fight back... but you shouldn't also be so tanky that you automatically beat the odds. Fight back, duck behind a rock, stealth, fleeeeee.... anything you like, all those things are cool... but really, if you think the kind of play style where you can heal endlessly and take very little damage is balanced???
Get your head out of the sand!
It's that kind of thinking that is actually breaking the game.
Stop twisting what I say, I'm saying bad players should die because they're bad. You're saying just because it's 6 people you should die for that reason alone, no you SHOULD die because it's 6 people & they're GOOD ENOUGH to kill you not because it's simply 6 of you. You SHOULD get punished for BAD PLAY...
But your level of thinking is exactly what ZOS wants so I don't get what you're complaining about. This "Numbers should automatically win" mentality has been getting put in place patch after patch.
Well there obviously must be reason for that should there.
I'm not twisting what you say man, you are just misunderstanding the concept of balanced gameplay. You are talking about bad players getting punished and nonsense like that. You have no concern for a game to be what it's meant to be... fun for everyone.
A truly good player can probably kill 6 players if their skilled enough even with my suggestions. The issue your outlook has, is that you're blaming the imbalance on those 6 players being "bad"... in fact, most of the time they're not bad, you're just most likely overpowered so they look bad. Even the field a bit... then judge their skill level.
Okay.
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BoxFoxx✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?
A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!
How hard is that to understand?
I don´t see why.
They can not kill quick because they are inept.
That can´t be fixed with gamemechanics.
It´s like saying 6 archers missing all their arrows because they´re too dumb to shoot should still beat one skilled shooter simply because they´re 6.
Does not make any sense to me. I´m sorry.
None of those reference are actually the reality that were talking about here. If players are that bad and they die then so be it. So maybe not ANYONE... but the cases of 1xVing should be more difficult for a solo player and take more skill than it currently does. If you win in a 1vX situation it should take actual skill in play not in being a juggernaut. Most of the time in actuality the situation has nothing to do with those players being inept and everything to do with the other player being overpowered and nearly invincible.
Given we´re talking about a nonCP situation here.
What makes a player OP there. Everybody is fighting on even ground except for gear - which is easily obtained.
I'm addressing with CP more directly. Limits/caps would clearly have less impact on a nonCP campaign. However, certain combinations of buffs and healing abilities can still make some players OP... at least in a PvP situation, in PvE you could never survive group dungeons with out it.
But you can't carry over those stats to PvP because it makes it unbalanced. You're taking the build tank power and healing stats to defeat a group dungeon boss and applying to a player versus player situation on a field with a wide variety of classes. It simply doesn't apply. So to make combat more balanced you need caps. Balance equals more fun for everyone.Edited by BoxFoxx on 24 March 2017 21:590 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?
A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!
How hard is that to understand?
I don´t see why.
They can not kill quick because they are inept.
That can´t be fixed with gamemechanics.
It´s like saying 6 archers missing all their arrows because they´re too dumb to shoot should still beat one skilled shooter simply because they´re 6.
Does not make any sense to me. I´m sorry.
None of those reference are actually the reality that were talking about here. If players are that bad and they die then so be it. So maybe not ANYONE... but the cases of 1xVing should be more difficult for a solo player and take more skill than it currently does. If you win in a 1vX situation it should take actual skill in play not in being a juggernaut. Most of the time in actuality the situation has nothing to do with those players being inept and everything to do with the other player being overpowered and nearly invincible.
Given we´re talking about a nonCP situation here.
What makes a player OP there. Everybody is fighting on even ground except for gear - which is easily obtained.
I'm addressing with CP more directly. Caps should hardly change a nonCP campaign. However, certain combinations of buffs and healing abilities can still make some players OP... at least in PvP situation, in PvE you could never survive group dungeons with out it.
But you can't carry over those stats to PvP because it makes it unbalanced. You're taking the build tank power and healing stats to defeat a group dungeon boss and applying to a player versus player situation on a field with a wide variety of classes. It simply doesn't apply. So to make combat more balanced you need caps. Balance equals more fun for everyone.
I´m going to be bold and state:
Every unkillable tankbuild is in some way related to: Pirate, bloodspawn, harness or blocking mechanics.
Work on those 4 and the discussions vanish.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭...and if you're getting smacked by 6 guys CatchMeTrolling you SHOULD die. Exactly my point that you're missing. Those six guys should be pissed that they can't kill one.
The problem is: 6 People that know what they´re doing will kill a sorc quickly. Very quickly. If they can´t it´s a user error.
So what do you think those guys should be angry about?
A 6 on 1 scenario should be a quick kill for ANYONE!
How hard is that to understand?
I don´t see why.
They can not kill quick because they are inept.
That can´t be fixed with gamemechanics.
It´s like saying 6 archers missing all their arrows because they´re too dumb to shoot should still beat one skilled shooter simply because they´re 6.
Does not make any sense to me. I´m sorry.
None of those reference are actually the reality that were talking about here. If players are that bad and they die then so be it. So maybe not ANYONE... but the cases of 1xVing should be more difficult for a solo player and take more skill than it currently does. If you win in a 1vX situation it should take actual skill in play not in being a juggernaut. Most of the time in actuality the situation has nothing to do with those players being inept and everything to do with the other player being overpowered and nearly invincible.
Given we´re talking about a nonCP situation here.
What makes a player OP there. Everybody is fighting on even ground except for gear - which is easily obtained.
I'm addressing with CP more directly. Caps should hardly change a nonCP campaign. However, certain combinations of buffs and healing abilities can still make some players OP... at least in PvP situation, in PvE you could never survive group dungeons with out it.
But you can't carry over those stats to PvP because it makes it unbalanced. You're taking the build tank power and healing stats to defeat a group dungeon boss and applying to a player versus player situation on a field with a wide variety of classes. It simply doesn't apply. So to make combat more balanced you need caps. Balance equals more fun for everyone.
I´m going to be bold and state:
Every unkillable tankbuild is in some way related to: Pirate, bloodspawn, harness or blocking mechanics.
Work on those 4 and the discussions vanish.
Pirate is just major protection, there's more than one way to get that. That particular mechanic is overtuned.
And you forgot trollolol king...
Edited by Minalan on 24 March 2017 23:270 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭xskinzcity wrote: »That's the point of the build. Extremely high survivability but no dps. It's a trade off.
Sadly, some of these builds have surviveability, dps, and all heals.PactMender wrote: »xskinzcity wrote: »That's the point of the build. Extremely high survivability but no dps. It's a trade off.
trade off? youre on xbox skin you should know better! OP is right damn near all of AD DC who are stam builds are fengrush fanboy orc stam sorcs posers who wear 5 or 6 or 7 heavy armor and they also have stupid high dps every one wants their cake and eat it too, like mag sorcerer ive seen these near invincible stam builds have mobility with damage and survivability. there are no trade offs. every update from thieves guild on up pvp balance has gotten worse.
OP these builds hurt pvp.
I think this hits it on the head. There is less trade off for sure. Just go heavy. Where is the skill when you can have sustain, dps, and massive heals? Personally, I have nothing against fengrush at all and many pvpers use heavy. If you play the meta, pvp lacks a lot of risk. If you mess up, you are done.0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think you should be able to play to survive, and have adequate dps or at least burst to kill an opponent.
I don't think though that that should exist as merely holding block and pressing heals wearing heavy armor. I think that should mitigate to some degree, but it should be more related to the counter abilities that you run to being attacked in various ways, combined with positioning yourself tactically.
If you are getting swarmed by 10 players for example, there should be counter abilities which mitigate specifically against the being swarmed scenario, as an example, without providing excess benefit in another area, like 1v1
This is a difficult idea to articulate in the context of the game, as the game parameters are diverse and complicated to balance, which means you need to take my statements in a flexible context, and not adhere to them as though they are finite. Creating such a system requires looking at scenarios and abilities and how they interact, and deciding if it is even possible to do.
So to answer:
(1) Yes
(2) Yes
(3) YesEdited by Cathexis on 25 March 2017 02:39Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How can you possibly make it where in this game a "good" player can deafeat six "bad" players and yet still have that same player with that same build not be insanely OP in 1v1?
I do not believe this game has the mechanics capable (nor any game for that matter) to have such a sliding scale based purely on skill.
When all it takes is a cross hair and a press of a button, I do not see how skill can make the difference between surviving x6 attacks per sec and still lose to x1 attack per sec.0 -
Sheuib✭✭✭✭These are the builds that you have to lock down with root spam in order to kill them. But, they are probably the ones in the other thread complaining about root spam.0
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BoxFoxx✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »How can you possibly make it where in this game a "good" player can deafeat six "bad" players and yet still have that same player with that same build not be insanely OP in 1v1?
I do not believe this game has the mechanics capable (nor any game for that matter) to have such a sliding scale based purely on skill.
When all it takes is a cross hair and a press of a button, I do not see how skill can make the difference between surviving x6 attacks per sec and still lose to x1 attack per sec.
I think it would depend on the scenario... like a good Nightblade could do by picking them off one by one. If he was swarmed however he would obviously die. That is rather balanced. It wouldn't work if one of them was an OP player with extreme resistance and healing though.
...and that's the topic of this conversation. Skill versus being overpowered. I do think a tank build should be able to do it too. Especially with AOE skills like DawnBreaker. Just not in such an easy fashion as it is done now. He should just be easier to kill. The chances of a tank taking out six should still exist, just be more difficult to accomplish.
With a 1v1 situation, it should depend on which player uses better tactics. If a Nightblade gets the initial attack in, it should tip in his direction. A tank should be able to survive a gank, but not be able to unflinchingly turn around and stomp on him. There should be some struggle for both parties.
You're right though. If a player can hold his own versus six only because he has high resistance and healing, then yes that is OP and unbalanced.Edited by BoxFoxx on 25 March 2017 11:030 -
BoxFoxx✭✭✭Bottom line. While there are some resistances that are OP it is the healing factor that is causing the imbalance in PvP. In fact, I remember going into PvP for the first time a couple years ago and being surprised that I was able to heal myself in a PvP match. I, along with everyone else, have just gotten used to it now. But really, it shouldn't work that way in a PvP combat game. There needs to be a bounce back time that forces you to flee or take cover when low on health. (e.g. 1 sec cooldown on being healed for every 1k of healing received... or something like that.) That is common design and function in PvP combat games.
To make sure the game stays alive while capturing a keep however, the radius of a spawn camp near a keep should include the entire vicinity of the keep (spawn camps being placed inside keeps should not be allowed). This will be needed as there will be more deaths (kills), however the dynamic would be more on par with the best of PvP combat games.Edited by BoxFoxx on 25 March 2017 11:430 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The rise of tank builds is more of a symptom of the problem that comes from the combination of champion points, high amounts of resource regeneration + high amounts of damage, the way damage is increased from stealth attacks, and the way some item sets function. Which created only two extremes A: Player gets killed in two hits, but can kill most other players in two hits. Or B: Player tanks up and has more time to counter attack, but takes longer to kill most other players.
Or just make a magplar and achieve both A and B.0