Why did you nerf magicka templars?

Jonno

The LORD has spoken

Skinzz

This nerf is intended for all the bad templars that spam radiant, spears and bol. Yall know who you are... The good templars won't be affected by it.

xboxNA corin6

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Godspeed wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Ok and? What percentage of health were you at?

Around 40%. I was mounted and I only have 16k hp in pvp. Was two hit off my mount.

driosketch

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Godspeed wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Ok and? What percentage of health were you at?

Around 40%. I was mounted and I only have 16k hp in pvp. Was two hit off my mount.

That means you had 6.4k health left? Even nerfed down to a third, the beam would have ended you after a mount knock off.

Jonno

Wtf 16k hp in pvp u run around naked or something

xboxNA corin6

driosketch wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Godspeed wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Ok and? What percentage of health were you at?

Around 40%. I was mounted and I only have 16k hp in pvp. Was two hit off my mount.

That means you had 6.4k health left? Even nerfed down to a third, the beam would have ended you after a mount knock off.

One tick. One tick, hit for 14k, on a channeled ability. So, you're telling me, in a real fight, as soon as I lose 8k hp, I should automatically lose the fight? So really, I only have 8k health versus magplars? I don't think you're being logical.

driosketch

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Godspeed wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Ok and? What percentage of health were you at?

Around 40%. I was mounted and I only have 16k hp in pvp. Was two hit off my mount.

That means you had 6.4k health left? Even nerfed down to a third, the beam would have ended you after a mount knock off.

One tick. One tick, hit for 14k, on a channeled ability. So, you're telling me, in a real fight, as soon as I lose 8k hp, I should automatically lose the fight? So really, I only have 8k health versus magplars? I don't think you're being logical.

If you are defenseless, can't block, shield, or dodge, there are non executes that would take you out under 8k health.

xboxNA corin6

driosketch wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Godspeed wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Ok and? What percentage of health were you at?

Around 40%. I was mounted and I only have 16k hp in pvp. Was two hit off my mount.

That means you had 6.4k health left? Even nerfed down to a third, the beam would have ended you after a mount knock off.

One tick. One tick, hit for 14k, on a channeled ability. So, you're telling me, in a real fight, as soon as I lose 8k hp, I should automatically lose the fight? So really, I only have 8k health versus magplars? I don't think you're being logical.

If you are defenseless, can't block, shield, or dodge, there are non executes that would take you out under 8k health.

That's fine and all, but isn't it undodgeable? Shields work in 1v1, but in team fighting, not really. Your health dips a lot in team fights, and shields scale downward in team fights, making this spell a little rediculous. Really though, it's not that bad. You got the fire 8% now and some more cp. So 21% is not really as bad as it seems.

Ron_Burgundy_79

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

technohic

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Godspeed wrote: »

xboxNA corin6 wrote: »

was hit for 14k on light armor all impen from radiant on one tick before..

Ok and? What percentage of health were you at?

Around 40%. I was mounted and I only have 16k hp in pvp. Was two hit off my mount.

That means you had 6.4k health left? Even nerfed down to a third, the beam would have ended you after a mount knock off.

One tick. One tick, hit for 14k, on a channeled ability. So, you're telling me, in a real fight, as soon as I lose 8k hp, I should automatically lose the fight? So really, I only have 8k health versus magplars? I don't think you're being logical.

Are you trolling? That much health? Really? Where you play at? I need to make some highlight reels of ganking. I would take you out with one heavy attack of a bow let alone an execute.

And did you see the tic or are you referring to death recap. Recap shows total and DOT tics always seem to show higher numbers when the target dies. I've seen 10k poison injection tics on a target that only had 4k health left to begin with.

FENGRUSH

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

I know of the blazing spear change - and I didnt like it either. I was refering to the OPs doomsday picture painted of magplar. 1vXing has never been their specialty really, but their role as a class in raids both for damaging and healing have been core for some time.

CatchMeTrolling

thankyourat wrote: »

Magplar is definitely top of the food chain for group PvP. What really needs a nerf for magplar is that you shouldn't be able to be a healer and a tank at the same time. That's just bad gameplay design.

Have to disagree with that, specifically for "Paladin" like classes they're usually tanks, healers and buffers all in one.

Then someone can bring up the argument no class should be able to shield themselves, have mobility and still put out high dps. Not to mention there's way too many tanky dps player's running around if anything that shouldn't be a thing.

Neoauspex

Paraflex wrote: »

I know a certain someone who walks out a keep an dies to Stam NBs in 3 hits before he gets a chance to react....

<Raises hand>

Devilhand

Baphomet wrote: »

Alright, so magicka templars have never been in the top of the food chain to begin with, which is why it baffles me that you decided to nerf them.

Two of the good abilities that magicka templar had was radiant oppression and blazing spear.

Radiant you decided to nerf for the fifth time. Or was it for the sixth time now? It was in a very good state before and one of the only reliable counter to all the dodge-rolling (which there is way, way too much of nowadays). It wasn't too powerful before, so the damage decrease was completely unwarranted. Why did you change it @ZoS?

Blazing spear was one of the few anti-zerg mechanics in the game, but with the removal of its stun, it is now utter garbage in that regard. And luminous shards doesn't fill the gap properly, so that's not really an excuse. Why change something that was working well, @ZoS?

Basicly you've taken two of the only a handful of good templar abilities and screwed them over - without giving them anything properly good in return. Why @ZoS?

Curious minds want to know - thanks.

LOL...
Beacuse I cant spamm Radiant on people from 28m and expect them to die when my Skoria proc.
More of a L2P issue.

Magicka Templars are REAL strong right now, speacially with the 1HS builds which let you cast abilities while perma blocking.

It is the FIRST nerf to radiant over more then 1 year, so stop QQ'ing. You sound like a zerg baby player. Way to much dodgerolling? Its the only viable defensive mechanism stamian classes have (beside tanks that hold block), we dont have purges or burst heals or shield stacking skills... Oh and dont forget they added many new skills to the undodgeable list, were many are widely used in PvP, in combination to the unblockable ones.
Radiant wasnt to powerful before? LOL. 28m instant kill if you ever drop 30% heal, undodgeable and channeled attack.

I dont even have to waste my time with you. L2P buddie. Coming from a main magicka templar, we are not in a position to QQ.
L2P

xomnigul

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Becuase it was easy mode...

lmao you run a 50k health zerger build what do you know? all you do is zerg like all ad

Ron_Burgundy_79

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

I know of the blazing spear change - and I didnt like it either. I was refering to the OPs doomsday picture painted of magplar. 1vXing has never been their specialty really, but their role as a class in raids both for damaging and healing have been core for some time.

Yeah templars aren't in a bad spot. If they provide luminous with a true cc, templars will be in a very good spot.

The change to radiant is really a joke in pvp. Instead of hitting for 10-20k in pvp it'll hit for 8-16k when an opponent is around 30% health. Radiant wasn't a huge issue until ZOS reverted a change allowing multiple radiants to stack execute damage on a single target. I believe that was the Orsinium patch (I believe this was also the patch where they reverted it back to being undodgeable). It appeared to be a change to help PVE magplars put, but as usual, no one (including me) seemed to understand the ramifications is would have on pvp.

Unfortunately the changes to restoring aura and purifying light look to benefit the heavy armor raid templar as much or more than the solo and small group templars.

Edit: Autocorrect hates me

timidobserver

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

I know of the blazing spear change - and I didnt like it either. I was refering to the OPs doomsday picture painted of magplar. 1vXing has never been their specialty really, but their role as a class in raids both for damaging and healing have been core for some time.

A Templar nerf that Fengrush is not in favor of. That alone proves that it was an unnecessary nerf.

thankyourat

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Magplar is definitely top of the food chain for group PvP. What really needs a nerf for magplar is that you shouldn't be able to be a healer and a tank at the same time. That's just bad gameplay design.

Have to disagree with that, specifically for "Paladin" like classes they're usually tanks, healers and buffers all in one.

Then someone can bring up the argument no class should be able to shield themselves, have mobility and still put out high dps. Not to mention there's way too many tanky dps player's running around if anything that shouldn't be a thing.

I agree I don't think tanky DPS should be a thing at all. I play tanky DPS on all my characters now and it's broken. As for tank healer Templar I do think something needs to be done but I actually think it's some of the op heavy armor sets making Templar such a problem. I think the problem is more with heavy armor, it's too strong in general and when put on a healer it's becomes insanely op. Because in general when fighting you want to take out the healer first but in this situation you can't because he's also a tank but you really can't kill any of his friends either because he's a healer. But like you said there are many broken things in the game, and I don't really want a nerf to templars I want a nerf to heavy armor survivability so I can actually target templars first and maybe get a kill. Because reactive templars are everywhere and that build is just way too strong

Docmandu

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

Actually the stun part of it you can get from vamp drain.. since more than likely a templar doing 1vX is going to be a vamp, since it's the only decent mobility you get on a templar.

Lore_lai

Magplar is fine still. Blazing spear nerf was not needed on a class that has meh CCs and very bad soft CCs that we didn't even ask for. (like we need more snares in PvP ugh)

Radiant nerf was okay, and I would have wanted to see, on top of it, nerf to it not pre-loading on targets. Enough of this crap putting beam on targets before they are in execute range and then executing them if they drop below, just because you spam it from 40+m while others do the damage.

The worst is Blazing nerf though. You don't have to be a zergling Blazing Spear spamming Templar to see how the stun removal hurts in the scenario where Luminous is broken.

The only thing I really hate about Templar is how horriburu my sweeps are because of desynchs but that's mostly cos I'm EU trash on NA.

I'm really, really liking Backlash though. Yummm! Have mostly tried in group but I've hit for really high with it. Not so convinced about the magicka morph yet (in duo-solo because we tried to hit the cap and it was meh), but I'd have to play around with it more. Stam morph (Power of the Light) is good.

We *need* better Class ults.

Also @FENGRUSH - you shouldn't talk about Templar. You trash talked Radioactive plars and called them zerglings then when you made your mag!Plar you played a Radioactive BoL bot.

Ashamray

Lore_lai wrote: »

Magplar is fine still. Blazing spear nerf was not needed on a class that has meh CCs and very bad soft CCs that we didn't even ask for. (like we need more snares in PvP ugh)

Radiant nerf was okay, and I would have wanted to see, on top of it, nerf to it not pre-loading on targets. Enough of this crap putting beam on targets before they are in execute range and then executing them if they drop below, just because you spam it from 40+m while others do the damage.

The worst is Blazing nerf though. You don't have to be a zergling Blazing Spear spamming Templar to see how the stun removal hurts in the scenario where Luminous is broken.

The only thing I really hate about Templar is how horriburu my sweeps are because of desynchs but that's mostly cos I'm EU trash on NA.

I'm really, really liking Backlash though. Yummm! Have mostly tried in group but I've hit for really high with it. Not so convinced about the magicka morph yet (in duo-solo because we tried to hit the cap and it was meh), but I'd have to play around with it more. Stam morph (Power of the Light) is good.

We *need* better Class ults.

Also @FENGRUSH - you shouldn't talk about Templar. You trash talked Radioactive plars and called them zerglings then when you made your mag!Plar you played a Radioactive BoL bot.

Agreed.
Can you explain what's the difference between stam and mag morphs of Backlash you experienced? I mean, they both should be almost equal: 40k pool gives you ~12k cap in pvp, doesn't it?

Lore_lai

@Ashamray - on paper both should be the same, yes. Although to be honest I haven't checked tooltip values on mag vs. stam. You have to keep in mind that stam one still gives minor breach/fracture and stam probably has more armor penetration than heavy armor Templar. The benefit though is that the mag one has a pretty nice HoT attached to it.

We have tried Purifying (mag morph) and I literally sat there and ate all the damage while only healing (without purifying ofc), including sitting in a meteor DoT and I was only getting hit for 3-4k from solo player.
Again - this was with me doing literally nothing to avoid the incoming damage.

Like I said - I'd have to actually play around with it and see how it feels. In group scenario it felt really good and it hit for really good #. But solo/duo I dunno how it would play out.

Ashamray

Lore_lai wrote: »

@Ashamray - on paper both should be the same, yes. Although to be honest I haven't checked tooltip values on mag vs. stam. You have to keep in mind that stam one still gives minor breach/fracture and stam probably has more armor penetration than heavy armor Templar. The benefit though is that the mag one has a pretty nice HoT attached to it.

We have tried Purifying (mag morph) and I literally sat there and ate all the damage while only healing (without purifying ofc), including sitting in a meteor DoT and I was only getting hit for 3-4k from solo player.
Again - this was with me doing literally nothing to avoid the incoming damage.

Like I said - I'd have to actually play around with it and see how it feels. In group scenario it felt really good and it hit for really good #. But solo/duo I dunno how it would play out.

I suspect there is a squishy formula in Backlash penetration. It could suffer from armor and spell resistance but it seems to be able to reach all cap damage inspite of mitigation. Need to test it more.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Docmandu wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

Actually the stun part of it you can get from vamp drain.. since more than likely a templar doing 1vX is going to be a vamp, since it's the only decent mobility you get on a templar.

The only positive about vamp drain is that it's unblockable. Unfortunately using a single target channeled ability that can be interrupted in a 1vX situation typically results in death. That's why dark flare is bad. Volcanic rune is also a terrible replacement as the cast time and small radius make it very hard to reliably cc someone.

Blazing spear was the only CC that synergized with @Wrobel 's vision of the templar house.

Lore_lai

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

The only positive about vamp drain is that it's unblockable. Unfortunately using a single target channeled ability that can be interrupted in a 1vX situation typically results in death. That's why dark flare is bad. Volcanic rune is also a terrible replacement as the cast time and small radius make it very hard to reliably cc someone.

Blazing spear was the only CC that synergized with @Wrobel 's vision of the templar house.

Pretty sure vamp drain doesn't go through block, only dodge. Also, you don't need to sit there and channel it to get the stun, you can block cancel it immediately - the stun happens on first hit.

Volcanic Rune doesn't have a cast time - it has an "arming" time à la sorc mines. Cast time is instant. I was considering using it though, just because everything else is so lackluster and I miss my Blazing Spear CC so much. I still cast it on myself when i feel a NB ambush coming hoping it will CC them. RIP the dream.

However - the answer to Templar having decnt CCs shouldn't be - just go vampire. FFS. Not everyone wants to be vampire.
#Hipster!Plar FTW!

Ron_Burgundy_79

Lore_lai wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

The only positive about vamp drain is that it's unblockable. Unfortunately using a single target channeled ability that can be interrupted in a 1vX situation typically results in death. That's why dark flare is bad. Volcanic rune is also a terrible replacement as the cast time and small radius make it very hard to reliably cc someone.

Blazing spear was the only CC that synergized with @Wrobel 's vision of the templar house.

Pretty sure vamp drain doesn't go through block, only dodge. Also, you don't need to sit there and channel it to get the stun, you can block cancel it immediately - the stun happens on first hit.

Volcanic Rune doesn't have a cast time - it has an "arming" time à la sorc mines. Cast time is instant. I was considering using it though, just because everything else is so lackluster and I miss my Blazing Spear CC so much. I still cast it on myself when i feel a NB ambush coming hoping it will CC them. RIP the dream.

However - the answer to Templar having decnt CCs shouldn't be - just go vampire. FFS. Not everyone wants to be vampire.
#Hipster!Plar FTW!

1. It goes through block, but that doesn't change the fact that it's far from spammable, even when animation cancelling. Good luck cc'ing multiple people on you with vamp drain.
2. Arming time vs cast time doesnt change the fact that the amount of time it takes for the cc to become active causes this ability to be really bad.
3. Having to be a vamp is probably going to be bad due to all the FOTM magic dk's running around. That extra flame damage is no bueno.

technohic

I am amazed that even with the RD nerf, I still see people spamming it. I mean; I am playing my templar and if a zerg comes by it is now prophecy of the light and jesus beams, and some random curses. Generally I just cleanse it off but they keep reapplying. Eventually; enough of them do it and you see a bunch of 2k hits from sevveral different people who are just looking for the new thing to spam.

driosketch

technohic wrote: »

I am amazed that even with the RD nerf, I still see people spamming it. I mean; I am playing my templar and if a zerg comes by it is now prophecy of the light and jesus beams, and some random curses. Generally I just cleanse it off but they keep reapplying. Eventually; enough of them do it and you see a bunch of 2k hits from sevveral different people who are just looking for the new thing to spam.

It's hilarious because I bet this group RD spam is what led to the call for a nerf. Instead they made a change that hurts the solo templar but barely slows the groups down.

FENGRUSH

Lore_lai wrote: »

Magplar is fine still. Blazing spear nerf was not needed on a class that has meh CCs and very bad soft CCs that we didn't even ask for. (like we need more snares in PvP ugh)

Radiant nerf was okay, and I would have wanted to see, on top of it, nerf to it not pre-loading on targets. Enough of this crap putting beam on targets before they are in execute range and then executing them if they drop below, just because you spam it from 40+m while others do the damage.

The worst is Blazing nerf though. You don't have to be a zergling Blazing Spear spamming Templar to see how the stun removal hurts in the scenario where Luminous is broken.

The only thing I really hate about Templar is how horriburu my sweeps are because of desynchs but that's mostly cos I'm EU trash on NA.

I'm really, really liking Backlash though. Yummm! Have mostly tried in group but I've hit for really high with it. Not so convinced about the magicka morph yet (in duo-solo because we tried to hit the cap and it was meh), but I'd have to play around with it more. Stam morph (Power of the Light) is good.

We *need* better Class ults.

Also @FENGRUSH - you shouldn't talk about Templar. You trash talked Radioactive plars and called them zerglings then when you made your mag!Plar you played a Radioactive BoL bot.

A build doesnt make you a zergling - playing in a zerg makes you a zergling. Ive run multiple builds on it - I started with that because 1) I had it gold from a few patches ago and 2) able to compare vs sustain sets. Sustain turns out to be the way to go - but reactive is good training wheels for people to learn it. Ive played magplar damn well, and the skill build isnt really run by many/any others Ive seen. Templar ults arent bad either, nova is just a bit expensive.

Ron_Burgundy_79

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Magplar is fine still. Blazing spear nerf was not needed on a class that has meh CCs and very bad soft CCs that we didn't even ask for. (like we need more snares in PvP ugh)

Radiant nerf was okay, and I would have wanted to see, on top of it, nerf to it not pre-loading on targets. Enough of this crap putting beam on targets before they are in execute range and then executing them if they drop below, just because you spam it from 40+m while others do the damage.

The worst is Blazing nerf though. You don't have to be a zergling Blazing Spear spamming Templar to see how the stun removal hurts in the scenario where Luminous is broken.

The only thing I really hate about Templar is how horriburu my sweeps are because of desynchs but that's mostly cos I'm EU trash on NA.

I'm really, really liking Backlash though. Yummm! Have mostly tried in group but I've hit for really high with it. Not so convinced about the magicka morph yet (in duo-solo because we tried to hit the cap and it was meh), but I'd have to play around with it more. Stam morph (Power of the Light) is good.

We *need* better Class ults.

Also @FENGRUSH - you shouldn't talk about Templar. You trash talked Radioactive plars and called them zerglings then when you made your mag!Plar you played a Radioactive BoL bot.

Templar ults arent bad either, nova is just a bit expensive.

They're not bad, just in need of a little tweaking here and there. I know most of us solo magplars would like 1 of the morphs of Nova to be changed to a burst damage ulti rather than require a synergy.

I'd also like a magic morph of dawnbreaker, but that a completely different topic.