Why did you nerf magicka templars?

Lore_lai

@Ron_Burgundy_79 - no, Vamp drain does not CC through Block. Its damage is unblockable but the CC stun will not go through. Just tested it right now.

@FENGRUSH - I didn't say you were a zergling, just I think it's hypocritical to trash talk ppl for using a set and saying they're baddies and then putting it on.

I also never said you didn't play well - admittedly in the vids I saw, you did have another healPlar with you to support you.

Nova is only good because its synergy which is iffy at best (like most synergies are) - group synergy.
Remembrance is probably good to counter destro ult - again - in group. Otherwise Light's Champion is much better and you know that.
Empowering Sweep is meh and I'd rather use Spell Wall.

So please tell me which of these super awesome Templar ults you would use over other ults out there if you weren't just healing your group?

Ron_Burgundy_79

Lore_lai wrote: »

@Ron_Burgundy_79 - no, Vamp drain does not CC through Block. Its damage is unblockable but the CC stun will not go through. Just tested it right now.

That makes it even worse than I had been lead to believe. Templars have no viable replacements to blazing spear at the moment. Hopefully we can get a working version of luminous shards (an actually hard cc, not a worthless disorient) in some sort of hot patch.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

kadar

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

You can tell how weak Templars are cause no one even plays the class. #bufftemplar

kadar

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

@Ron_Burgundy_79 - no, Vamp drain does not CC through Block. Its damage is unblockable but the CC stun will not go through. Just tested it right now.

That makes it even worse than I had been lead to believe. Templars have no viable replacements to blazing spear at the moment. Hopefully we can get a working version of luminous shards (an actually hard cc, not a worthless disorient) in some sort of hot patch.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

Vamp Drain certainly goes through my block....Or it did. Stealth change?

Lore_lai

The_Outsider wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

@Ron_Burgundy_79 - no, Vamp drain does not CC through Block. Its damage is unblockable but the CC stun will not go through. Just tested it right now.

That makes it even worse than I had been lead to believe. Templars have no viable replacements to blazing spear at the moment. Hopefully we can get a working version of luminous shards (an actually hard cc, not a worthless disorient) in some sort of hot patch.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

Vamp Drain certainly goes through my block....Or it did. Stealth change?

It's most certainly not a stealth change. I remember testing it a while back to see if it would be worth in a duel.
Re-tested it just in case. Duel someone and test it out and you will see.

The damage *is* unblockable, but not the CC.

Lore_lai

Also can we please stop talking about stuff we remember, we think our friend of our friend of our cousin twice removed once told us about how said skill works, because this one time in +999 ping he got CC'd?

You're just confusing the devs and they are probably confused as is.

Not that I care - I don't play vamp anyway, but health of the game and working as intended and all that.

Valencer

At what point is templar good enough? When 50% of Cyrodiil or more is playing a heavy armour magplar?

We're getting there, slowly.

Joy_Division

timidobserver wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

I know of the blazing spear change - and I didnt like it either. I was refering to the OPs doomsday picture painted of magplar. 1vXing has never been their specialty really, but their role as a class in raids both for damaging and healing have been core for some time.

A Templar nerf that Fengrush is not in favor of. That alone proves that it was an unnecessary nerf.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also can we please stop talking about stuff we remember, we think our friend of our friend of our cousin twice removed once told us about how said skill works, because this one time in +999 ping he got CC'd?

You're just confusing the devs and they are probably confused as is.

Not that I care - I don't play vamp anyway, but health of the game and working as intended and all that.

Congratulations! You found the first thing I've ever said that wasn't 100% correct

Doesn't change the fact that the blazing spear change wasn't necessary, and a disorient is absolutely worthless for a templar in pvp.

kadar

Baphomet wrote: »

Alright, so magicka templars have never been in the top of the food chain to begin with, which is why it baffles me that you decided to nerf them.

Two of the good abilities that magicka templar had was radiant oppression and blazing spear.

Radiant you decided to nerf for the fifth time. Or was it for the sixth time now? It was in a very good state before and one of the only reliable counter to all the dodge-rolling (which there is way, way too much of nowadays). It wasn't too powerful before, so the damage decrease was completely unwarranted. Why did you change it @ZoS?

Blazing spear was one of the few anti-zerg mechanics in the game, but with the removal of its stun, it is now utter garbage in that regard. And luminous shards doesn't fill the gap properly, so that's not really an excuse. Why change something that was working well, @ZoS?

Basicly you've taken two of the only a handful of good templar abilities and screwed them over - without giving them anything properly good in return. Why @ZoS?

Curious minds want to know - thanks.

Oky then, here we go:

Developer Comment
The damage of Radiant Destruction was so high that players were able to cast this on targets with high health values and still deal effective damage. This change makes it more important to use the ability at the correct time. In PvP, other players now have more time to react, and in PvE the rotation requires using multiple abilities for a longer period of time.

Developer Comments
We took the stun off of Blazing Spear and increased its damage over time duration to help differentiate it from Luminous Shard. We want Blazing Spear to be damage focused, and Luminous to be CC focused. Note: We’re still working through a solution that makes Luminous feel unique from the other CC abilities, while maintaining the functionality of effectiveness on blocking targets.

It's like the devs are really here! /endthread

kadar

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also can we please stop talking about stuff we remember, we think our friend of our friend of our cousin twice removed once told us about how said skill works, because this one time in +999 ping he got CC'd?

You're just confusing the devs and they are probably confused as is.

Not that I care - I don't play vamp anyway, but health of the game and working as intended and all that.

Look people make mistakes, and I appreciate the correction. I've heard drain offered as a solution to perma-blockers before, and I could have sworn it's dropped my block before, but I realize I may be wrong, so thanks for pointing that out.

technohic

Took my Stamplar back magplar for some fun. Magplar is in a decent place. There's a lot of meta that makes having a cheap cleanse very good to have. Javelin is not horrible CC although k think the stun should not be effective until the target lands. If they fix luminous shards; we'll then have that block counter. I just don't know what could be asked for as a magplar now without giving up some of that cleansing and healing and I think that would be a big mistake. Maybe just some tiny tweaks, Couple of abilities are worthless; yes. But that's every class. My suggestion would be to make some stam morphs.

crusnik91

Baphomet wrote: »

Alright, so magicka templars have never been in the top of the food chain to begin with, which is why it baffles me that you decided to nerf them.

Two of the good abilities that magicka templar had was radiant oppression and blazing spear.

Radiant you decided to nerf for the fifth time. Or was it for the sixth time now? It was in a very good state before and one of the only reliable counter to all the dodge-rolling (which there is way, way too much of nowadays). It wasn't too powerful before, so the damage decrease was completely unwarranted. Why did you change it @ZoS?

Blazing spear was one of the few anti-zerg mechanics in the game, but with the removal of its stun, it is now utter garbage in that regard. And luminous shards doesn't fill the gap properly, so that's not really an excuse. Why change something that was working well, @ZoS?

Basicly you've taken two of the only a handful of good templar abilities and screwed them over - without giving them anything properly good in return. Why @ZoS?

Curious minds want to know - thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG7e7gQ-MEw
There u go! The solution for your problems!
I don't agree with the shard changes but sometimes adapting is the way to go

Lore_lai

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also can we please stop talking about stuff we remember, we think our friend of our friend of our cousin twice removed once told us about how said skill works, because this one time in +999 ping he got CC'd?

You're just confusing the devs and they are probably confused as is.

Not that I care - I don't play vamp anyway, but health of the game and working as intended and all that.

Congratulations! You found the first thing I've ever said that wasn't 100% correct

Doesn't change the fact that the blazing spear change wasn't necessary, and a disorient is absolutely worthless for a templar in pvp.

I wasn't referring to you in particular, it was more a general statement. No need to take it personal.
And, heck yeah - you don't have to tell me the Blazing Spear change was terrible in this context.
***
Also - to the person saying that Cyro is full of Templars - please - I think I can count on one (maybe both if I try really hard) hand/s the # of Templars in Cyro who aren't just some tower mage beam spammer or bol bot.
If that is what you call playing Templar then I'm not so sure about your judgement in regards to how the class should perform.

KisoValley

Magplar was top dog in PVE last patch. Even now it's pulling more than Sorc (In EU, NA seem to have dropped Magplars altogether).

As I said about almost every change. It's all PVE based, but Zos claim it's PVP based.

Lore_lai

KisoValley wrote: »

Magplar was top dog in PVE last patch. Even now it's pulling more than Sorc (In EU, NA seem to have dropped Magplars altogether).

As I said about almost every change. It's all PVE based, but Zos claim it's PVP based.

I kinda doubt that.

Also add to the fact that sorc is ranged and is best for dancing in vMoL...

KisoValley

Lore_lai wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Magplar was top dog in PVE last patch. Even now it's pulling more than Sorc (In EU, NA seem to have dropped Magplars altogether).

As I said about almost every change. It's all PVE based, but Zos claim it's PVP based.

I kinda doubt that.

Also add to the fact that sorc is ranged and is best for dancing in vMoL...

Magplars in Hodor (Alfonso and Cezille) are pulling 47k single target

Sorcs in Hodor (Yolo, Paul and Lukas (I'm assuming Lukas is playing MagSorc now)) 45k single target.

e: Take into account people care more about single target than aoe.

Docmandu

Lore_lai wrote: »

The only thing I really hate about Templar is how horriburu my sweeps are because of desynchs but that's mostly cos I'm EU trash on NA.

If it makes you feel better... the sweep desynch is just as bad for EU trash playing on EU.

I've said it before, but a templar's worse enemy is lag... most of our skills either stop working or even lock us out of our own skills when lag gets just a bit above average.

Valencer

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also - to the person saying that Cyro is full of Templars - please - I think I can count on one (maybe both if I try really hard) hand/s the # of Templars in Cyro who aren't just some tower mage beam spammer or bol bot.
If that is what you call playing Templar then I'm not so sure about your judgement in regards to how the class should perform.

Whether you like it or not, it is very relevant. Heavy armour BoL bots have been dominating Cyrodiil for like 8 months now, because of (easy to pull off and) insane survivability and being able to project that survivability on everyone around them.

Has to be dealt with at some point if templars want to get some of their offensive capabilities buffed, unless you want picking templar over the other classes to become a no-brainer

Chilla_Deluxe

Because Magplars carry so many bad players that why.

Lore_lai

Valencer wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also - to the person saying that Cyro is full of Templars - please - I think I can count on one (maybe both if I try really hard) hand/s the # of Templars in Cyro who aren't just some tower mage beam spammer or bol bot.
If that is what you call playing Templar then I'm not so sure about your judgement in regards to how the class should perform.

Whether you like it or not, it is very relevant. Heavy armour BoL bots have been dominating Cyrodiil for like 8 months now, because of (easy to pull off and) insane survivability and being able to project that survivability on everyone around them.

Has to be dealt with at some point if templars want to get some of their offensive capabilities buffed, unless you want picking templar over the other classes to become a no-brainer

Meanwhile - my friend's 370-ish stam DK vigor ticks for 5k, yes with Battle Spirit and no Burning Heart proc. Okay.
Many things are out of control and should be dealt with.

Valencer

No disagreements there

Ron_Burgundy_79

The_Outsider wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also can we please stop talking about stuff we remember, we think our friend of our friend of our cousin twice removed once told us about how said skill works, because this one time in +999 ping he got CC'd?

You're just confusing the devs and they are probably confused as is.

Not that I care - I don't play vamp anyway, but health of the game and working as intended and all that.

Look people make mistakes, and I appreciate the correction. I've heard drain offered as a solution to perma-blockers before, and I could have sworn it's dropped my block before, but I realize I may be wrong, so thanks for pointing that out.

Valencer wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also - to the person saying that Cyro is full of Templars - please - I think I can count on one (maybe both if I try really hard) hand/s the # of Templars in Cyro who aren't just some tower mage beam spammer or bol bot.
If that is what you call playing Templar then I'm not so sure about your judgement in regards to how the class should perform.

Whether you like it or not, it is very relevant. Heavy armour BoL bots have been dominating Cyrodiil for like 8 months now, because of (easy to pull off and) insane survivability and being able to project that survivability on everyone around them.

Has to be dealt with at some point if templars want to get some of their offensive capabilities buffed, unless you want picking templar over the other classes to become a no-brainer

The problems you mentioned aren't templar problems. They are heavy armor problems, specifically reactive paired with malubeth.

EldritchPenguin

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

10/10 troll post. Please buff templar - most underused and overnerfed class ever in world.

Have you ever tried to 1vx with a magplar? The blazing spear change essentially eliminated our best cc ability without "fixing" the other morph making it nearly impossible to 1vX.

Anyone that suggests luminous shards will seamlessly replace blazing spear has obviously not played the class for any real length of time. A disorient is worthless for a class that uses dots to buff up.

People complain about magplars but fail to understand that heavy armor has been and still is the issue.

I know of the blazing spear change - and I didnt like it either. I was refering to the OPs doomsday picture painted of magplar. 1vXing has never been their specialty really, but their role as a class in raids both for damaging and healing have been core for some time.

Yeah templars aren't in a bad spot. If they provide luminous with a true cc, templars will be in a very good spot.

The change to radiant is really a joke in pvp. Instead of hitting for 10-20k in pvp it'll hit for 8-16k when an opponent is around 30% health. Radiant wasn't a huge issue until ZOS reverted a change allowing multiple radiants to stack execute damage on a single target. I believe that was the Orsinium patch (I believe this was also the patch where they reverted it back to being undodgeable). It appeared to be a change to help PVE magplars put, but as usual, no one (including me) seemed to understand the ramifications is would have on pvp.

Unfortunately the changes to restoring aura and purifying light look to benefit the heavy armor raid templar as much or more than the solo and small group templars.

Edit: Autocorrect hates me

I dunno. If several people hit you with an execute while you're in execute range, you should die. I agree that RD was a problem, and, to a large extent, still is, but saying, "multiple people attacked me and I died" sounds more like it's working as intended, and doesn't really lend itself well to saying that Magplars are too strong.

FearlessOne_2014

Devilhand wrote: »

Baphomet wrote: »

Alright, so magicka templars have never been in the top of the food chain to begin with, which is why it baffles me that you decided to nerf them.

Two of the good abilities that magicka templar had was radiant oppression and blazing spear.

Radiant you decided to nerf for the fifth time. Or was it for the sixth time now? It was in a very good state before and one of the only reliable counter to all the dodge-rolling (which there is way, way too much of nowadays). It wasn't too powerful before, so the damage decrease was completely unwarranted. Why did you change it @ZoS?

Blazing spear was one of the few anti-zerg mechanics in the game, but with the removal of its stun, it is now utter garbage in that regard. And luminous shards doesn't fill the gap properly, so that's not really an excuse. Why change something that was working well, @ZoS?

Basicly you've taken two of the only a handful of good templar abilities and screwed them over - without giving them anything properly good in return. Why @ZoS?

Curious minds want to know - thanks.

LOL...
Beacuse I cant spamm Radiant on people from 28m and expect them to die when my Skoria proc.
More of a L2P issue.

Magicka Templars are REAL strong right now, speacially with the 1HS builds which let you cast abilities while perma blocking.

It is the FIRST nerf to radiant over more then 1 year, so stop QQ'ing. You sound like a zerg baby player. Way to much dodgerolling? Its the only viable defensive mechanism stamian classes have (beside tanks that hold block), we dont have purges or burst heals or shield stacking skills... Oh and dont forget they added many new skills to the undodgeable list, were many are widely used in PvP, in combination to the unblockable ones.
Radiant wasnt to powerful before? LOL. 28m instant kill if you ever drop 30% heal, undodgeable and channeled attack.

I dont even have to waste my time with you. L2P buddie. Coming from a main magicka templar, we are not in a position to QQ.
L2P

I must be different then. Me personally before nerf. Rarely dies to 1 even 2 Magplars spamming RD on me. I usually just laugh at them and heal through there damage even one time below %20 health. I've also watched youtube videos of other stam builds before the patch drop below %10 and survive the supposed insta killing RD. They did just with just Vigor.

So I'm confused as in other then it being like many of the other nerfs and buffs this patch PvE related. What was people crying about RD? Meanwhile Proc Stamblades and Proc Stamsorcs are completely ok... right??? I just don't know. Maybe my characters on my account are just glitched, and don't take the insane damage people are talking about from RD. Who knows?

Drdeath20

1 big problem I have with templars is that we have to invest 4 skill points into making so-so skills average.

1skill point for the skill, 1 for the morph, 2 for the passives.

Light weaver increases restoring auras duration by 20% and grants a 16,500 shield for using right or passage.

Enduring rays increases duration of Nova, Sunfire, and eclipse by 30%.

Can't we just start by making these passives part of the base skill and giving templars 2 real alternative passives?

Oh and why bother changing blazing spear when Luminous shards is known to be broken?

Drdeath20

Templars still have no mobility

Nova and it's morphs needs to be reworked. Both ultimates are stationary, both are extremely expensive, both are completely outshined by meteor for just about every purpose.

Remembrance and practiced incarnation are far too similar of ultimates. 1 is 2 seconds shorter but mitigates 20% of damage ,for all players in its radiomus, during its 4 second duration. The other last for 6 seconds.

Nova and rite of passage are ultimates that require a buff from passives just to be mediocre.

The whole blazing spear debacle that everyone agrees is terrible.

Completely useless skills like solar barrage, Eclipse and it's morphs and not sure about the other templar heal yet.

josh.lackey_ESO

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Templars still have no mobility

But they gave us Hasty Prayer!

ZoM_Head

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Radiant should never have existed. Nobody asked for it and all it does is make people cry all the time. Can we just have blinding flashes back?

^^This

FENGRUSH

Dredlord wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Magplar is fine still. Blazing spear nerf was not needed on a class that has meh CCs and very bad soft CCs that we didn't even ask for. (like we need more snares in PvP ugh)

Radiant nerf was okay, and I would have wanted to see, on top of it, nerf to it not pre-loading on targets. Enough of this crap putting beam on targets before they are in execute range and then executing them if they drop below, just because you spam it from 40+m while others do the damage.

The worst is Blazing nerf though. You don't have to be a zergling Blazing Spear spamming Templar to see how the stun removal hurts in the scenario where Luminous is broken.

The only thing I really hate about Templar is how horriburu my sweeps are because of desynchs but that's mostly cos I'm EU trash on NA.

I'm really, really liking Backlash though. Yummm! Have mostly tried in group but I've hit for really high with it. Not so convinced about the magicka morph yet (in duo-solo because we tried to hit the cap and it was meh), but I'd have to play around with it more. Stam morph (Power of the Light) is good.

We *need* better Class ults.

Also @FENGRUSH - you shouldn't talk about Templar. You trash talked Radioactive plars and called them zerglings then when you made your mag!Plar you played a Radioactive BoL bot.

And thats only the tip of the hypocritical ice berg he floats down the stream on....

All aboard the hypocritical ice berg. Please elaborate!

Its pretty ridiculous the amount of hatred you can get coming into a templar thread.

Lore_lai wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Lore_lai wrote: »

Also can we please stop talking about stuff we remember, we think our friend of our friend of our cousin twice removed once told us about how said skill works, because this one time in +999 ping he got CC'd?

You're just confusing the devs and they are probably confused as is.

Not that I care - I don't play vamp anyway, but health of the game and working as intended and all that.

Congratulations! You found the first thing I've ever said that wasn't 100% correct

Doesn't change the fact that the blazing spear change wasn't necessary, and a disorient is absolutely worthless for a templar in pvp.

I wasn't referring to you in particular, it was more a general statement. No need to take it personal.
And, heck yeah - you don't have to tell me the Blazing Spear change was terrible in this context.
***
Also - to the person saying that Cyro is full of Templars - please - I think I can count on one (maybe both if I try really hard) hand/s the # of Templars in Cyro who aren't just some tower mage beam spammer or bol bot.
If that is what you call playing Templar then I'm not so sure about your judgement in regards to how the class should perform.

I dont know anybody who is playing the class now that is not hammering BOL. Theres some dark flare spammers here and there, and that one EP guy who only beams from stealth. This is a result of it being so damn good and everything else paleing in comparison though.