WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

Ermiq

leepalmer95 wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hey man at least these streamers can spell ZeniMax right.

Oh darn. That completely refutes everything I said. Totes.
I didn't even bold the corporate name, or capitalize it in the middle. I'm so ashamed of myself.

Most popular streamers tend to play all classes, they tend to have a lot of play time in the game. They play the game at a very high level and know what they are talking about.

So why shouldn't zos bring in high end players for testing? Is that such a bad thing.

I can tell you an interesting story from one MMORPG.
Once upon a time, developers decided to make a closed test of a huge patch with completely changed classes. It wasn't a PTS, they invited only 100 top-players from the biggest and the most famous guilds to that test. That players are top-donators of course and top-PvPers and they supposed to be very interested in balance and other aspects of the game. A lot of complaints and whining was on the forums after that news. People said "what are you doing? Why not PTS for all?". Developers answer was "We're believe that feedback from a few of top-players will be more accurate and correct".
Well, after that was a PTS for other players. And there was unseen disbalance. Warriors killed every one with only one button with AoE debuff. Druid DoTs didn't work properly and their DPS in DD-build was lower than other classes in Support-build. Every support-class was a killing machine with their own buffs, debuffs and self-healing. Healers died in 5-6 secs because support-classes was able to control them immediately, imagine that healer just stands and can do nothing untill he die.
That is an example practice. If developers gonna listen to a couple of top-players instead of forum community, then do not expect anything good.

AzraelKrieg

hamgatan wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

People with loud voices and influence are being pampered and flattered so they can keep the hype train going for morrowind. In the same week we had the Superbowl advert, Facebook advertising and numerous puff piece "news stories" this is another part of the marketing strategy.

*mic drop*

^ THIS. EXACTLY.

Pamper those with the largest follower communities, get them raving about how awesome housing is.. followers be like.. well housing must be awesome then because <insert name here> said so.

Marketing through influence. As i said above putting them on a pedestal.. to become second tier Zenimax salespeople.. because zeni know that their fanbases will lap up anything that spills from their mouths.

And they pamper them and yet, hardly anyone streams ESO on Twitch anymore because of these people and their absolutely toxic community.

GrigorijMalahevich

@willlienellson

Super salty and uber wrong. Thanks god, that Zenimax invite people like Deltia and Sypher to discuss ANYTHING (Fengrush has great understanding of the game, but is an *** towards Zenimax, tough luck). Because they actually know what they are talking about. It is obvious that Zenimax employees responsible for balancing - do not spend so much time actually playing the game, which means that they will lack mechanical understanding of high level gaming experience in ESO. Obvious move is to invite someone who does. Furthermore, those two players talk quite a lot about various issues with their ESO friends (who have also vast knowledge and experience) and in the end they will not represent 1% of the community.

What you wrote is so wrong and incorrect I almost started bleeding out of my eyes.

Down-vote for you, mate

willlienellson

Valera Progib wrote: »

Super salty and uber wrong.........

What you wrote is so wrong and incorrect I almost started bleeding out of my eyes.

Down-vote for you, mate

Who sounds salty? lmao

Valera Progib wrote: »

Furthermore, those two players talk quite a lot about various issues with their ESO friends (who have also vast knowledge and experience) and in the end they will not represent 1% of the community.

I actually wrote explicitly why this is a bad thing in my original post. I'm not accusing any of these guys of being bad people, cheaters, or exploiters, but their elite guilds are FULL of bad people, cheaters and exploiters. The most toxic, cancer build running, exploit using, hack abusing types in the game are in these same guilds.

The pool of vast knowledge and experience you speak of is actually my primary concern, as I wrote.

willlienellson

Zinaroth wrote: »

Both @Alcast and @Paulington from Hodor are there aswell. So it's not just famous streamers and YouTubers.

I suggest you google the term "Alcast ESO" and see what comes up first.

Want me to save you the time? Youtube.

kagorsa

I don't watch vidoes of the game i'm playing, but if I want to look at a new game I will take a quick look at someones gameplay. I do however like to remind myself that the views of the youtuber are thier own and not that of 10,000 people, and yes there are some youtubers I would like to wrap in barbed wire and hang upside down untill cured.

We can all dream

thankyourat

willlienellson wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Open world being so easy contributes to the lack of skill we see within Veteran Dungeons on a regular basis.

I would at least agree with that at least.

Look, my issue is two-fold. First, I don't think they represent us. I don't think they can represent us because of how different their experience is. But secondly - even if I'm wrong, and just as important, I find it offensive on principle how established methods of feedback from the general playerbase is roundly ignored while they seek feedback from a select few.

95℅ of the playerbase has no clue on what's going on with the game or how the classes are suppose to be played. Majority of ideas I see on the forums would completely break the game. There are too many players who lack skill and then blame that lack of skill on class balance, Or lack a understanding of a class they are playing and then say that class is weak when in reality they aren't playing it right. These players shouldn't be used for balance because they lack experience of game mechanics. So the players that should be used doesn't necessarily have to be streamers but they do need to use good players with a lot of experience

Bislobo

My mother always told me that there is jealous people in the world. I always refused to believe, until i actually read this thread.

Alcast

Willie you need to calm down...

willlienellson

Deltia wrote: »

With all that's going on in the world and you're worried about this? Jealous man, smh.

Alcast wrote: »

Willie you need to calm down...

So, that's the party line huh? lmao.

The hypocrisy is palpable.

GrigorijMalahevich

willlienellson wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Super salty and uber wrong.........

What you wrote is so wrong and incorrect I almost started bleeding out of my eyes.

Down-vote for you, mate

Who sounds salty? lmao

Valera Progib wrote: »

Furthermore, those two players talk quite a lot about various issues with their ESO friends (who have also vast knowledge and experience) and in the end they will not represent 1% of the community.

I actually wrote explicitly why this is a bad thing in my original post. I'm not accusing any of these guys of being bad people, cheaters, or exploiters, but their elite guilds are FULL of bad people, cheaters and exploiters. The most toxic, cancer build running, exploit using, hack abusing types in the game are in these same guilds.

The pool of vast knowledge and experience you speak of is actually my primary concern, as I wrote.

You sound salty.

And me saying: "and in the end they will not represent 1% of the community." I actually mean that they will represent a lot higher value than 1%. You saying that elite guilds are FULL of bad people is just low. Hacks will be dealt with, exploits will be fixed, cheaters banned. Cancer builds will be fixed if they are considered bad for the game.

Much butt heart that Zenimax didn't invite you?

Hand_Bacon

Good to hear the honorable member from AlcastHQ is there.

willlienellson

Bislobo wrote: »

My mother always told me that there is jealous people in the world. I always refused to believe, until i actually read this thread.

Bislobo

willlienellson wrote: »

Bislobo wrote: »

My mother always told me that there is jealous people in the world. I always refused to believe, until i actually read this thread.

yeah just like that, the salt is so real loool

cpuScientist

willlienellson wrote: »

Deltia wrote: »

With all that's going on in the world and you're worried about this? Jealous man, smh.

Alcast wrote: »

Willie you need to calm down...

So, that's the party line huh? lmao.

The hypocrisy is palpable.

You are using hypocrisy wrong

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Ermiq

Valera Progib wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Super salty and uber wrong.........

What you wrote is so wrong and incorrect I almost started bleeding out of my eyes.

Down-vote for you, mate

Who sounds salty? lmao

Valera Progib wrote: »

Furthermore, those two players talk quite a lot about various issues with their ESO friends (who have also vast knowledge and experience) and in the end they will not represent 1% of the community.

I actually wrote explicitly why this is a bad thing in my original post. I'm not accusing any of these guys of being bad people, cheaters, or exploiters, but their elite guilds are FULL of bad people, cheaters and exploiters. The most toxic, cancer build running, exploit using, hack abusing types in the game are in these same guilds.

The pool of vast knowledge and experience you speak of is actually my primary concern, as I wrote.

You sound salty.

And me saying: "and in the end they will not represent 1% of the community." I actually mean that they will represent a lot higher value than 1%. You saying that elite guilds are FULL of bad people is just low. Hacks will be dealt with, exploits will be fixed, cheaters banned. Cancer builds will be fixed if they are considered bad for the game.

Much butt heart that Zenimax didn't invite you?

Just imagined the butt heart. It's... interesting.

Tommy_The_Gun

willlienellson wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Open world being so easy contributes to the lack of skill we see within Veteran Dungeons on a regular basis.

I would agree with that at least.

Look, my issue is two-fold. First, I don't think they represent us. I don't think they can represent us because of how different their experience is. But secondly - even if I'm wrong, and just as important, I find it offensive on principle how established methods of feedback from the general playerbase is roundly ignored while they seek feedback from a select few.

I agree. So.. How many % of players those streamers need to represent ? Only PvP players ? or PvP and PvE players ? PvP and PvE balancing are two different things. And it is hard to find a solution that will suit both pve and pvp. There will be always someone that will be unhappy with some in-game changes.
The trick is to make as much as possible people to be happy.

willlienellson

cpuScientist wrote: »

You are using hypocrisy wrong

Oh Sheesh.

"behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

So, like spending VAST AMOUNTS of time indulging in a specific thing (lets just say a video game) and then telling other people spending much less amount of time focusing on the same subject that they are somehow out of balance to care that much about it.


I frankly can't imagine having the stones to spend all day playing a video game, try to make a living from people watching me playing the video game, travel to the headquarters of the video game, and then tell someone they shouldn't care enough to make a thread about the video game. Deltia's reply was surreal.

willlienellson

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

Don't pretend you're any better.

WTF are you even talking about? At no point did I ever suggest that the streamers should stop being streamers, stop playing eso, or that they need to behave differently. Really, WTF?

willlienellson

Valera Progib wrote: »

You sound salty.

You sound more salty. Okay, your turn. Go again. This is fun.

Hand_Bacon

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pattyLtd

Well, i don't really know who you would like to "represent" us players or how they should go about selecting them?

With those "elite" celebrity gamers (LOL) they at least know they invite players that know alot about their game and aren't affraid to voice their opinions, i think that's a good thing. Not that i think this will lead to huge changes in the long run.

Bislobo

Wait guys wait, i know this one... The best players to represent our player base, should be the ones who complain about everything and everyone in the forums.

willlienellson

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Spectral_Lord wrote: »

Don't pretend you're any better.

WTF are you even talking about? At no point did I ever suggest that the streamers should stop being streamers, stop playing eso, or that they need to behave differently. Really, WTF?

Really, now. You're either not aware of it, or you just pulled a card outta your sleeve and defend it with a statement irrelevant to what I said.

You said 5 words. "Don't pretend you're any better". And you refuse to elaborate on just what the heck you mean. But I'm not going to try to tease out meaning from your nonsense anymore.

willlienellson

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Is this describing the brainstorming at the Zos sleepover?

Hand_Bacon

It has to do with the speculation on what is being said there, by whom, and for what purpose.

willlienellson

pattyLtd wrote: »

Well, i don't really know who you would like to "represent" us players or how they should go about selecting them?.

Bislobo wrote: »

Wait guys wait, i know this one... The best players to represent our player base.....

Why do you feel inadequate to represent yourselves? Just curious.

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