Yup 「Radiant Destruction」

myrrrorb14_ESO

@MaxwellCrystal I don't think using a 1vX situation is helping your argument. Of course 1vX is going to be a struggle and every patch ZOS makes it more difficult to pull it off. They just don't want that kind of game play.

As a healer I like HoT. It's a nice thing that keeps off incidental or sporadic damage from killing you. But without a burst to heal burst damage you are in a bad spot. Having vigor and rally going is nice. It's two clicks for two HoTs. Rally is a bit low, but the heal at the end is decent. I don't think your shield is big enough to let the HoT catch up to the damage taken.

You've mentioned that you spammed vigor and rally trying to outheal RD. That indicates that the heal is too low to counter it. My tooltip shows about 7k dps in PvE. So that's about 4k in PvP. If you have decent resistance that's about 3k per tick. The damage slowly scales til you hit 25% at which point it will execute you. With the nerf to shields you can absorb about 1 to 2 ticks above 50% and only 1 in the 25%-49% zone. Those HoTs combined only heal 1k? Maybe 2k per second? Potions are nice I think they still heal for 5k? But the cooldown sucks. If you can keep your health above 50% you should pwn those Templars.

Just watch out for major defile, that will ruin your day and good templars use it to good effect.

I honestly think the best solution to change shield to major shield which protects against 20k and minor shield which protects against 10k. Or other more reasonable numbers (just tossing it out there). That would give time for even stamina heals to catch up. Since shields cost resources it could drain and make you vulnerable.

Destyran

Omg get over it!! So many counters. Purify purge cloak etc

Destyran

Desommettor wrote: »

The video says it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

Entropy. And those damage numbers look a bit on the weak side for other executes.

Sublime

Here's some representative evidence material, with a focal point on this topic's subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEKXmN5cz80

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265441/video-beam-dream-team#latest

AfkNinja

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@myrrrorb14_ESO
People are missing the point the damage re-cap isn't what's bothering me; what's bothering me is the instant death that I can't escape even if I drink a potion while spamming vigor/igneous shield, that to me is outrageous. I get it making it dodge-able would supposedly get rid of 'everyone' slotting it (which seems more of an opinion due to prior patches I'd still die by it but not as frequent). If that's the case then make the range equivalent to draining shot (bow skill) or destructive clench and the execute would be balanced. You cannot have the best of both worlds and say it's a balanced skill because its most certainly not.

@maxjapank I'm quite sure toppling charge isn't a hard CC and javelin too (Hard CCs go through block). I was thinking of the templar mage guard NPCs light prism thing, wasn't sure if templars had access to that skill as it goes through block and stuns you (not that orb that reflects damage).

Yeah there are plenty of skills that do high damage like ultimates but guess what... I can at-least survive/dodge every single ultimate/ability in the game aside from radiant destruction. Not every templar took off RD when it was bugged because prior to TG update (I believe that's when it was fixed) it was still used but after they pinned you down. If you don't want it dodge-able then reduce it's range like I said it has to be one of the 3 I listed before. Also I'll repeat myself again, it's not the high damage value on the re-cap that's annoying me it's the simple fact that once I'm 30-40% health even when I'm healing to 50% I get 1 shotted and there's nothing I can really do unless I pop corrosive armor (which I do not slot in PvP unless it's for tactical captures). Every other execute I can dodge or survive just a little to get away but RD is one that I cannot.

1. Dodge is not meant to be a defense against everything in the game.
2. The dmg from Radiant is not instant. It's a 3.5 second channel.
3. The dmg from radiant above 40-50% is moderate to low, you should thank them for doing less dmg than they are capable of and locking themselves out of assisting their group.
4. The Templar's that beamed you waited till you were in execute range (correctly), it was the other guys around you whuppin your butt that got you killed.
5. If you want to fight in group v group fights it's a good idea to be on a team with a healer that has purge slotted.
6. Stop trying to 1vX and blaming Templar's when you die. ZOS has repeatedly stated they do not like 1vX and they are making numerous changes every patch to make it harder.
7. All of you need to stop spamming the forums with these threads. By now ZOS has heard your feedback and if they are going to do something they will.
8. Repeating the same arguments thread after thread does not strengthen your argument.
9. Radiant does not ignore shields. It ate your shield because you were in execute range. Mages fury would have killed you too AND the sorc could have been fragging someone else while it killed you. At least the Templar has to actually focus on you to use the beam.
10. There are so many videos of players who not only ignore radiants on them, they turn around and kill the Templar cause the moron used it at 100% hp and got promptly wrekt.


Don't get mad that an execute executed you in execute range. Expected result was expected.

AOECAPS

Quit qq it's only bad when you are getting zerged down and it's the baddies that are doing that they are also the ones that open with Radiant Destruction.templars that are comfortable with their ability to fight aren't going to hang out in a wild pack spamming it from a distance.
Also if you see someone trying to lay hands on you focus them and bash. I did it this morning it saved my life and he died

Wreuntzylla

Sublime wrote: »

Here's some representative evidence material, with a focal point on this topic's subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEKXmN5cz80

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265441/video-beam-dream-team#latest

Totally not entering the debate, but the video shows a steady average of what, 3-6k DPS? They would be better off using sweeps/jabs.

MaxwellC

@maxjapank

I've only given options and stressed I'm not calling for a nerf. I said either something has to be changed it's range seems to be a fair trade off but sure ignore that. A hard CC is a CC that goes through block like fear, fossilize and that sorcerer prism thing which requires you to break free. I'm not familiar with the Templar Hard CC as I haven't been hit with a CC that I remember went through my block. I've blocked javelin and toppling charge before therefore they aren't hard CCs and I see your edit so that's the templars hard CC.

I look at CCs broken down in 3 categories. Hard CC, CC, and Soft CC. Hard CCs go through block so you have to break free regardless while CC doesn't go through block so you're good as long as you block but if you don't you'll have to break free, lastly soft CCs you do not have to break free but they immobilize your character/root them which you'll need to wait or roll dodge to get out of. That's the explanation I have of CCs I see yours differ but ok.

@myrrrorb14_ESO
Not sure what you're talking about I gave the 1vX situation based on why I felt healing being nerf'd is at a good state and I wouldn't mind it being nerf'd a little more because fighting more than 2 magicka templars makes it difficult to overcome the heal with burst damage (as a Stamina DK) unless I get my ultimate on both of them then it's over. So yeah that was my example I mean I can give a better example of a groups invading a keep as there heals ignore LoS healing players all around them even if on different elevation but that's a longer discussion that wasn't relevant to my thread so I kept off of it.

@AfkNinja
1.I don't believe dodge should be the single counter to the entire game that is just one of the 4 suggestions I gave for this ability to be changed please do not assume that, thanks.

2.The damage to me feels instant when I get in that execute range no matter what distance which makes healing out of it impossible that has been my comment repeatedly through-out this thread.

3.I seriously think you didn't read my comment to myrrob wasn't about trying to win it was about healing which wasn't related to this thread. I said I felt healing nerfs were in a good spot but I wouldn't mind if they were nerf'd a little to make it easier to burst down 2 templars in a 1vX situation instead of them out healing the damage.

4. I believe (just checked and only saw this thread as a complaint regarding it) that I made 1 thread regarding RD unless I missed it but checking my profile showed this thread and that's all.. so yeah... I made this thread to encourge discussion and see what people would rather have changed and the range seems to be the one thing they don't really mind being changed.


5. NEVER stated that radiant ignores shields I think you're mixing me up with someone else mate.

6. I'm not mad that an execute executed me my issue is that it can do so at a long range. People got mad when they got executed by a DKs Heavy attack but that wasn't fair too right?

AfkNinja

@MaxwellCrystal

That whole post wasn't directed specifically at you but more aimed at a few players I see who keep making threads exactly like this one with the same arguments over an over.

Nothing personal as I don't even play Magplar. Just playing devils advocate, and honestly I don't really see the issue people are complaining about.

"I wouldn't mind if they were nerf'd a little to make it easier to burst down 2 templars in a 1vX situation instead of them out healing the damage."

Regarding the 1vX against 2 templar's you really think it's fair for you to be able to out dps 2 templar's healing eachother when their specialization as a magic class is healing? I see your point, I really do as I like solo roaming too, but you have to understand ZOS can not balance this game around 1vX as it would ruin the game. Battlegrounds and Arena's are coming, your time to shine is just around the corner.

Not saying the skill is perfect, honestly I don't think there IS a way to fully balance RD in all situations. At the moment though it is balanced in GvG and 1v1 and that's really the best you can do.

P.S. I never wanted RD, I loved Blinding Flashes.

MaxwellC

@AfkNinja
I believe it's fair if I burst you down using a dizzing swing and take flight followed up with an animation cancelled heavy/executioner that should kill you depending on my values. You shouldn't be stacked at full health after my all that hits you with your bar barely even going below 50%. That's happened on some occasions but I try to avoid fights like that as it's just too much but I see your point in fairness.

I mean for me balance for RD is when I fight someone from X amount of meters away and that person gets me close to death I shouldn't see a beam from on top of an outpost or all the way out of nowhere hitting me and killing me. If the range is reduced I'd be fine with it as I could definitely run away from a templar (hehe since no movement speed ).

You're good mate I mean this is the forums I look at it as a way to discuss issues and collaborate ways to fix it as long as people don't act sarcastic and rude then we're good.

AfkNinja

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@AfkNinja
I believe it's fair if I burst you down using a dizzing swing and take flight followed up with an animation cancelled heavy/executioner that should kill you depending on my values. You shouldn't be stacked at full health after my all that hits you with your bar barely even going below 50%. That's happened on some occasions but I try to avoid fights like that as it's just too much but I see your point in fairness.

I mean for me balance for RD is when I fight someone from X amount of meters away and that person gets me close to death I shouldn't see a beam from on top of an outpost or all the way out of nowhere hitting me and killing me. If the range is reduced I'd be fine with it as I could definitely run away from a templar (hehe since no movement speed ).

You're good mate I mean this is the forums I look at it as a way to discuss issues and collaborate ways to fix it as long as people don't act sarcastic and rude then we're good.

Respek. Absolutely, I enjoy the debate. Even more when everyone can stay civil and attempt to see alternate points of view. Constructive debate is healthy for the game, wish more people could keep their ego's in check and refrain from degrading attacks on character/grammar/etc instead of detail oriented discussions. After all, it is right there in the terms of agreement lol, you can make a valid argument without personally attacking a person quite easily.

Nice chatting with you.

Dredlord

Baconlad wrote: »

I think everyone is misunderstanding why Templar do not feel it is an OP skill. Pre execute, the skill does ***, half health its nice, and quarter health, its an execute. Us magic Templar use the skill at full health because it is the ONLY thing we have against dodge rolling, vigor/ rally spamming, blocking, cloaking, mitigating, shuffle dodging, and soon BONE SHIELDING stamina builds. Why would I for example, try casting dark flare on you? I'll miss DF every cast. Why would I risk toppling charge? I may not hit, and the skill may not fire off. Why would I cast puncturing sweeps? The snare seems none existent due to having to hit you with the LAST hit of it to get the snare, there fore we miss you... now. If you were standing still, or staying in mêlée, you would be dead in a matter of seconds against my dark flare, charge, sweeps combo, but because you are dodge rolling I choose to use radiant, even if your at full health... because its easy when compared to the above combo. But even if I had been spamming radiant destruction, it will take a LONG time to kill you because remember, your blocking, CCing me, vigor casting, cloaking, and LOSing me... so I will say this

L2P if you complain about getting killed from full health to zero 1v1! The damage it deal at full health is so garbage... and if you get killed by more than one player, what are complaining about? You mad cause you couldn't 1vX? STFU.... and if ur a magicka build, complaining about this skil...GTFO....just leave.

Eow that was really harsh on the op...


Sadly that is just what he needs as he is clearly not a learner, made painfully obvious by the fact he didn't even look closely enough at his own videos to know what was happening. Explained to him by multiple other posters in this thread but still he cant acknowledge it.

My guess is he is Aussie.

Dredlord

Sublime wrote: »

Here's some representative evidence material, with a focal point on this topic's subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEKXmN5cz80

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/265441/video-beam-dream-team#latest

Laughable isnt it... 2k dps really needs a nurf

Check out the guy around 3:20 who gets 4 or 5 beams at once and just walks away, any other combination of skills would have easily dropped him.

Perhaps the op could contact him and try to be a learner?

dodgehopper_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

The issue isn't the tick it's how it's virtually instant. When I get below a 50% threshold I just drop down and not only just me many players are experiencing that issue. People say well you can CC,Block,Heal,etc but unfortunately you can't all the time. .

There are many instants and equally damaging skills that will kill me. And I can't always cc, block, or heal outta those. And RD isn't instant. It's a 3 sec channel and the damge you see on your death recap is that full 3-sec total damage. Yes, the last tick under 10% is big. But that tick is overflow damage. 10% of 25k health is only 2500 health. So what if our RD does 10k damage on that tick. Doesn't matter. Anything that did 2501 damage would kill you.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

I suggest making it dodge-able...

It was dodge-able at one point because it was bugged. And guess what? Nearly every Templar took it off their bar in pvp. It was too easy for anybody to avoid it, it wasn't worth the slot. Making it dodge-able isn't the answer. Not while it is a channel. You would need to make it an Instant skill. But other classes already have those. And why can't one or two skills be a hard counter to dodging?

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

People say no because it'll ruin the skill even though I'm sure correct me if I'm wrong templars has a hard CC where you can stop someone from dodge rolling so you can cast that insta kill RD.

We have two hard ccs. One is Toppling charge, a gap closer that fails to go off many times. You push the button and nothing happens. You push it another 3..4...times and nothing happens. Damn...I just died because I couldn't cc the guy. The Other is Javelin, a ranged spear that has a knockback. This is a great skill and often what I use to get my RD kills. Because I often don't get an RD kill unless I cc the opponent first. I need to cc him because my RD is a channel and it leaves me open to being bashed/interrupted.

You see...RD is not just a mindless skill. We are looking to hit the person with it when they are at low health and preferably when they are cc'd. Just like any other execute.

I gave you an awesome, and I just want to add that I personally like the fact that it gives players an excuse to actually block instead of roll. It is to me a big steaming pile of nonsense that dodge rolling is easier than blocking. You would have thought the Roman Army and the old Hoplites just rolled about instead of using their shields, if you based real world combat on how things work in ESO. I have no problem with Dodge Rolling per se, but I think it is utterly ridiculous how costly it is. Dodge rolling gives the player better position, mobility -and- completely ignores damage from an attack. WTF Seriously!!!??? This has bugged me for a while guys. So the fact that ONE SKILL IN THE GAME FORCES PLAYERS TO BLOCK makes me happy. I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for people who refuse to raise their shield in pvp to this skill. I've got no sympathy to you if you didn't get the interrupt morph for your bow, or destruction staff. Those are choices you made. Raise a block and back out. There are plenty of other brutal combos out there. What I find offensive is that Templars kind of sort of have a decent skill (and I only barely accept this loosely, as I'm not overly wowed by channels/casts) and in some narrow little situation you're worried because you get laserbeamed off of battlements. GO GET A SIEGE WEAPON! What the hell are you doing running around like a chicken with your head cut off near the battlements? I'm getting overly excited here, but this topic is starting to *** me off, and I don't even use this skill. I'm tired of poorly thought out whining resulting in the jacking of the Templar class. I'm saying all this as I actually prefer my tanky paladinesque knightly build to a laser beam firing Templar. I don't seem to have a problem with this, all the while dodge rolling as a primary defense. I still know you block certain things if you don't want to end up dead.

If you want it to be instant cast? Fine, you can change it that way. Just realize there are reasons why it is designed the way it is and the class will likely see buffs in other ways to make up for it. Many of us would be happy to gain mobility or stack a trillion debuffs off one skill line others can do. The grass is always greener until you step into someone else's lawn. Go play the class and then come back and talk about radiant destruction like you understand it.

dodgehopper_ESO

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@maxjapank

I've only given options and stressed I'm not calling for a nerf. I said either something has to be changed it's range seems to be a fair trade off but sure ignore that. A hard CC is a CC that goes through block like fear, fossilize and that sorcerer prism thing which requires you to break free. I'm not familiar with the Templar Hard CC as I haven't been hit with a CC that I remember went through my block. I've blocked javelin and toppling charge before therefore they aren't hard CCs and I see your edit so that's the templars hard CC.

I look at CCs broken down in 3 categories. Hard CC, CC, and Soft CC. Hard CCs go through block so you have to break free regardless while CC doesn't go through block so you're good as long as you block but if you don't you'll have to break free, lastly soft CCs you do not have to break free but they immobilize your character/root them which you'll need to wait or roll dodge to get out of. That's the explanation I have of CCs I see yours differ but ok.

@myrrrorb14_ESO
Not sure what you're talking about I gave the 1vX situation based on why I felt healing being nerf'd is at a good state and I wouldn't mind it being nerf'd a little more because fighting more than 2 magicka templars makes it difficult to overcome the heal with burst damage (as a Stamina DK) unless I get my ultimate on both of them then it's over. So yeah that was my example I mean I can give a better example of a groups invading a keep as there heals ignore LoS healing players all around them even if on different elevation but that's a longer discussion that wasn't relevant to my thread so I kept off of it.

@AfkNinja
1.I don't believe dodge should be the single counter to the entire game that is just one of the 4 suggestions I gave for this ability to be changed please do not assume that, thanks.

2.The damage to me feels instant when I get in that execute range no matter what distance which makes healing out of it impossible that has been my comment repeatedly through-out this thread.

3.I seriously think you didn't read my comment to myrrob wasn't about trying to win it was about healing which wasn't related to this thread. I said I felt healing nerfs were in a good spot but I wouldn't mind if they were nerf'd a little to make it easier to burst down 2 templars in a 1vX situation instead of them out healing the damage.

4. I believe (just checked and only saw this thread as a complaint regarding it) that I made 1 thread regarding RD unless I missed it but checking my profile showed this thread and that's all.. so yeah... I made this thread to encourge discussion and see what people would rather have changed and the range seems to be the one thing they don't really mind being changed.


5. NEVER stated that radiant ignores shields I think you're mixing me up with someone else mate.

6. I'm not mad that an execute executed me my issue is that it can do so at a long range. People got mad when they got executed by a DKs Heavy attack but that wasn't fair too right?

Actually I think the DK should have kept his heavy attack. Where's DK execute now? This was a unique skill and required some planning but it was actually pretty cool. I think it is unfortunate they removed this, and I actually know people for whom this was the final straw and left the game. That's worth thought I think.

dodgehopper_ESO

AfkNinja wrote: »

@MaxwellCrystal

That whole post wasn't directed specifically at you but more aimed at a few players I see who keep making threads exactly like this one with the same arguments over an over.

Nothing personal as I don't even play Magplar. Just playing devils advocate, and honestly I don't really see the issue people are complaining about.

"I wouldn't mind if they were nerf'd a little to make it easier to burst down 2 templars in a 1vX situation instead of them out healing the damage."

Regarding the 1vX against 2 templar's you really think it's fair for you to be able to out dps 2 templar's healing eachother when their specialization as a magic class is healing? I see your point, I really do as I like solo roaming too, but you have to understand ZOS can not balance this game around 1vX as it would ruin the game. Battlegrounds and Arena's are coming, your time to shine is just around the corner.

Not saying the skill is perfect, honestly I don't think there IS a way to fully balance RD in all situations. At the moment though it is balanced in GvG and 1v1 and that's really the best you can do.

P.S. I never wanted RD, I loved Blinding Flashes.

Honestly, all things being equal I don't think the 'DPS IS KING' attitude is even fair or healthy for the game. A tank specced toward tanking should threaten a dps as much as the dps threatens him in 1v1. The same goes for a healer vs. dps, or tank vs. healer. If the game is balanced, all the lineups would be fun and more or less equitable, varying only by gear and skill. I'm not a big fan of the 1vX notion. Sure outplaying someone is good but there shouldn't be specific builds and strategies that just can't be dealt with by non-DPS, because DPS is just so awesome. I'm tired of this notion and I really hope it ends... soon.

Darnathian

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@maxjapank
The issue isn't the tick it's how it's virtually instant. When I get below a 50% threshold I just drop down and not only just me many players are experiencing that issue. People say well you can CC,Block,Heal,etc but unfortunately you can't all the time. If a templar is beaming you from a higher elevation and you have no long distance CC then that's not viable you may think "Oh well just run away" I would if I could survive that long to get out of it's range. So what about blocking it, well I've tried blocking it and healing through but unfortunately that doesn't work at all even when I block I just go.....dead.

I suggest making it dodge-able which would get rid of the mindless beamplars running around spamming it from their insane distance. People say no because it'll ruin the skill even though I'm sure correct me if I'm wrong templars has a hard CC where you can stop someone from dodge rolling so you can cast that insta kill RD.

I don't want this to be nerf'd just give it a shorter range or make it dodge-able that way it won't interfere with PvE as much.

Whats your resis and health at?

WreckfulAbandon

As long as there are stam users with infinite resources each class needs an undodgeable attack.

I don't blame anyone for RD or Lotus spam on a dodge roll monkey.

CMurder435

Just think.. What if Wrobel and ZoS took the +20,000 damage from radiant death recap.. They took that gross *** and divided it by 2. Let Templar class keep 10k execute skill. Then..now here's the catch.. Give the other of this crap..and give a Dragonknights a class execute..for the rest of the 10k..I know that it's scary to think about mdk getting some kind of improvement but wrobel the class is unique enough...to have an execute bruh.. And hell tbh it's not gonna happen but tone that down a bit or something. I can't wait for patch. This meta has gotten old faster than the other wrobel wrecking dlc updates. GF.

GreenSoup2HoT

Destyran wrote: »

Desommettor wrote: »

The video says it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

Entropy. And those damage numbers look a bit on the weak side for other executes.

On my nightblade, one with 5k weapon damage buffed, i hit for 3.5k killers blade i believe off the top of my head. which would be hit by resistances and cryodill debuff. Those numbers are correct.

RD look's like it's ticking to fast imo.

Avenias

Fix NB dodge and invis spam, then i'll be willing to talk about radiant destruction nerf. Until then, no thanks.

Lava_Croft

Avenias wrote: »

Fix NB dodge and invis spam, then i'll be willing to talk about radiant destruction nerf. Until then, no thanks.

The 'dodge spam' is not Nightblade specific and spamming Cloak is something which has so many counters by now that it's really not an issue anymore unless you are a new player, a bad player or a combination of the two.

failkiwib16_ESO

The other night I met a player who spammed that skill on me, and it took like 10% of my health while I was fighting resource NPC's, so I completely ignored him.... he still executed & killed me, because his friend showed up and helped shaving of my hitpoints.

This have been the case with many templars that I've met who spam execute. The damage they do is really pathetic and it's everyone els around them that deal the actual damage.

FYI: I have 0 attributes or armor enchants spent on health, I run in 5 light, 1 heavy, 1 medium and 0 impenetrable, and I don't slot shields or Channeled Focus.

outsideworld76

RD isn't overpowered, only if health drops below 50%. Anyway got hit bij RD last week for 28k, strange thing is that on the recap I only had one other damage report of only 7.8k. Normally I have about 24k health so that looks bugged to me, anyone who can clarify this?

WillhelmBlack

outsideworld76 wrote: »

RD isn't overpowered, only if health drops below 50%. Anyway got hit bij RD last week for 28k, strange thing is that on the recap I only had one other damage report of only 7.8k. Normally I have about 24k health so that looks bugged to me, anyone who can clarify this?

Probably had a HoT on you, my Templar has over 60K of damage on his death recap sometimes, massive amounts of heals incoming at the same time as damage incoming.