Yup 「Radiant Destruction」

MaxwellC

@myrrrorb14_ESO
Yeah I should watch closely as the damage ticks shows 10k then I die... Ok mate I get it you wanna keep RD the way it is without having it's range/damage/or having it remain unavoidable. Carry on mate I still believe one of the 3 should occur and if anything I think the third as the rest can interfere with PvE which is something I'd rather not happen.

Addition: One tick must be one second as each time RD hits me I'm dying within 1 second. @Jules already made a video perfectly showing what's the issue with RD but by all means ignore everyone else's video showing a 1 second beam wreck them.

I don't see the problem of it being dodge-able they dodge so you re-apply at-least for us we get to do something but if we fail to do anything in that time you'll still wreck us.

AfkNinja

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@myrrrorb14_ESO
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/video/17429430
Yup skip to like 40 seconds when I heal I'm just about to hit the 50% threshold but nah too bad beam boy hit a 14k when I try to get away.
Or maybe this one lol..
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Maxwell/video/16437566

1st video Beam hits you at 20-25% HP. Hits twice for 5724 then 8948 for a total of 14672. You got executed.
2nd video he hits you at 10% for 10201.

Edit: with your HP at 21k like you said that means when his 10k beam hit you there was only 2100 hp left lol. 8000 wasted dmg. A light attack would have killed you.

Omg bro's, he's right. That's the most OP thing I've ever seen....

mook-eb16_ESO

the main problem I have it with it is that its a dot and goes through shields.

AfkNinja

mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »

the main problem I have it with it is that its a dot and goes through shields.

It doesn't ignore shields.

mook-eb16_ESO

I had healing ward maybe 3k health left a big healing ward radeint destruction on me 1 beam ward stayed where it was health just droped underneath it >dead. death recap says radient destruction.

mook-eb16_ESO

maybe if it hit before the ward goes up it ignores the ward.

AfkNinja

mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »

I had healing ward maybe 3k health left a big healing ward radeint destruction on me 1 beam ward stayed where it was health just droped underneath it >dead. death recap says radient destruction.

You had 3k hp which means you were in execute range. That shield wouldn't have absorbed the full dmg on that channel as when you are at 5-10% hp it is hitting it's maximum value of 10000 to 15000 dmg based on your resistances. A burst heal plus a shield could have saved you, but for the most part at that point any execute would have likely killed you.

Edit: For clarification I do not play Magplar, but I fight them a lot.

mook-eb16_ESO

the shield didn't absorb any damage.

MaxwellC

@AfkNinja
Ya it's pretty OP especially when more then half the time that 1 tick is all that is needed, I can try and heal but that will do nothing, maybe I'll CC but they're too far away, I'll try and dodge....oh wait..

maxjapank

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@AfkNinja
Ya it's pretty OP especially when more then half the time that 1 tick is all that is needed, I can try and heal but that will do nothing, maybe I'll CC but they're too far away, I'll try and dodge....oh wait..

I'm pretty sure that AfkNinja is saying that it isn't OP, though I could be wrong. But if you look at many posters, they are repeating that the last tick was actually overkill. The last tick registered at 10k, but it really only did 2k as that's all the health you had left. So as AfkNinja said...even a light attack would have killed you.

dodgehopper_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@AfkNinja
Ya it's pretty OP especially when more then half the time that 1 tick is all that is needed, I can try and heal but that will do nothing, maybe I'll CC but they're too far away, I'll try and dodge....oh wait..

I'm pretty sure that AfkNinja is saying that it isn't OP, though I could be wrong. But if you look at many posters, they are repeating that the last tick was actually overkill. The last tick registered at 10k, but it really only did 2k as that's all the health you had left. So as AfkNinja said...even a light attack would have killed you.

I think the other thing people aren't realizing is that it requires the channel of each tick for each portion of damage to strike. In that 1 second interval people can combat-weave other forms of execute. Being killed by an execute at range isn't that unusual, it just works differently with different skills. Crystal Frags can hit like a truck as well, all being bounced off of popping a shield or healing ward. I've got no problem with that either because Sorcs have other issues, if anything they need love in some areas right now. I've got my ideas how they should do it, but like I've said before on this type of topic there is more than one way to skin the cat. I'm not going to say the Devs have awful ideas about these kinds of things. I'm sure they have a vision and want to keep it cohesive and try to massage it til the gameplay fits the style they wanted. Its a work in progress, and frankly being an MMO we have to accept that fact.

The other big issue is that Templars have pretty low mobility, particularly Magplars. At least a Stamplar could get mileage out of something like Cloaking Daggers or Rapid Maneuvers, combined with Sprinting (Although there's some big associated costs with this as well). I know Toppling charge gets bandied about a lot, but again if they are using this you should not complain about Templar execute range, and its most certainly not an escape. To Sum Up: Magplars have no escape skill, and everything is a cast or a channel. This is why they gave them this range attack, and its pretty plain as day to me. Believe me, as someone who plays as a Stamplar I'd love it if we ditched the RD and I got some mobility or blinding flashes, but that's not the current vision of the devs. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole here (not without breaking something).

Septimus_Magna

outsideworld76 wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

All hard hitting dmg skills should have a counter to prevent any direct health dmg.

Its bad that stupid gameplay is rewarded time after time. Every class has CC-abilities, maybe its time to reward those who use them properly?

They should first fix the lag and animation canceling. Now it's all about using the right rotation and get AP. No skill required.

Fix animation canceling? Its intended, the devs stated it multiple times already.

Skilled players wont be easily killed just by going through a rotation but I have to admit its pretty easy to proxy det+soul tether an inexperienced group with Vicious Death.

And dont get your hopes up for a lag fix, that ship has sailed a long time ago.

maxjapank

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I think the other thing people aren't realizing is that it requires the channel of each tick for each portion of damage to strike. In that 1 second interval people can combat-weave other forms of execute.
The other big issue is that Templars have pretty low mobility, particularly Magplars.

To Sum Up: Magplars have no escape skill, and everything is a cast or a channel. This is why they gave them this range attack, and its pretty plain as day to me.

I only highlighted some portions, but I fully agree. The poster keeps opening threads but is really uneducated about Templars as a whole. All they see is that recap damage value, which shows the damage of the entire 3 sec channel. They don't realize that it is the same as the other 3-4 listed damages from another class. And often the 3 sec channeled damage is overkill..

Baconlad

I think everyone is misunderstanding why Templar do not feel it is an OP skill. Pre execute, the skill does ***, half health its nice, and quarter health, its an execute. Us magic Templar use the skill at full health because it is the ONLY thing we have against dodge rolling, vigor/ rally spamming, blocking, cloaking, mitigating, shuffle dodging, and soon BONE SHIELDING stamina builds. Why would I for example, try casting dark flare on you? I'll miss DF every cast. Why would I risk toppling charge? I may not hit, and the skill may not fire off. Why would I cast puncturing sweeps? The snare seems none existent due to having to hit you with the LAST hit of it to get the snare, there fore we miss you... now. If you were standing still, or staying in mêlée, you would be dead in a matter of seconds against my dark flare, charge, sweeps combo, but because you are dodge rolling I choose to use radiant, even if your at full health... because its easy when compared to the above combo. But even if I had been spamming radiant destruction, it will take a LONG time to kill you because remember, your blocking, CCing me, vigor casting, cloaking, and LOSing me... so I will say this

L2P if you complain about getting killed from full health to zero 1v1! The damage it deal at full health is so garbage... and if you get killed by more than one player, what are complaining about? You mad cause you couldn't 1vX? STFU.... and if ur a magicka build, complaining about this skil...GTFO....just leave.

Baconlad

Ah, and my dark flare has hit for 17k almost in pvp....so if you want to be scared of something, be scared of getting ganked by that, complaining about a skill that hits fo 6k over three seconds....a$$holes

MaxwellC

@maxjapank
The issue isn't the tick it's how it's virtually instant. When I get below a 50% threshold I just drop down and not only just me many players are experiencing that issue. People say well you can CC,Block,Heal,etc but unfortunately you can't all the time. If a templar is beaming you from a higher elevation and you have no long distance CC then that's not viable you may think "Oh well just run away" I would if I could survive that long to get out of it's range. So what about blocking it, well I've tried blocking it and healing through but unfortunately that doesn't work at all even when I block I just go.....dead.

I suggest making it dodge-able which would get rid of the mindless beamplars running around spamming it from their insane distance. People say no because it'll ruin the skill even though I'm sure correct me if I'm wrong templars has a hard CC where you can stop someone from dodge rolling so you can cast that insta kill RD.

I don't want this to be nerf'd just give it a shorter range or make it dodge-able that way it won't interfere with PvE as much.

myrrrorb14_ESO

@MaxwellCrystal I don't really care if they nerf it or not. ZOS will do whatever it feels is best for the game. They have access to data and testing that goes way beyond what I can look at. I can make a detailed argument showing why I feel one way or the other on any topic and it will go on deaf ears. And I accept this.

I haven't played a pure stamina build (for longer than 2 weeks) since my stamina sorc before ESO changed to Tamriel Unlimited. I played hybrids a few times. So I don't know your trials and tribbulations that well. I know it from the other side. I think the range can be reduced by 6m to match the range of gap closers and it would still preserve the ability as it is intended to be. Not sure if this would help though. From my end, the ticks are very low until about 25-30%. Maybe somebody found a loophole to make that damage skyrocket, but I had all gold gear with willpower jewelry.

When RD was dodgeable I hardly ever slotted it. It was a waste. The cost drains way faster than dodge rolling drains stamina. On my hybrid sorc, I rekt Templars. In case you haven't heard hybrid characters haven't been good in forever. They're fun to play, but Jack of All trades syndrome. I feel that making it dodgeable will make it useless in PvP. There are too many roll Dodgers.

And I am not sure what you are referring to for hard cc. Everything I have is slow and easy to dodge.

After reading these threads I want to dust off my Templar and try to min/max into it. More tempted by trollplar (saw Zheg? post something about it). Problem of course is I am currently enjoying my hybrid NB and wanted to try out a DK again. So I really have no vested interest in not nerfing this skill. I am just against nerfing in general unless it's absolutely necessary.

I really did watch your videos. I just couldn't see what you were describing. It looked exactly as @AfkNinja described it.

The one thing I know absolutely is that the death recap is c###. Even the damage reporting apps are funky because of how the servers process and report back information. It is often out of order, it groups ticks together, reports overkill damage, and more. This makes it very difficult for us to analyze data from our end.

Sometimes I come off as an a##. Sorry for that. I tend to be blunt and state my opinion.

Septimus_Magna

@Baconlad
The problem doesnt come from 1v1 situations, its the outnumbered situations that people are complaining about.

By the looks of your final words I would be surprised if this leads to a objective discussion but feel free to prove me wrong.

Tormy

Radiant should be able to be rolled/dodged out of and the problem is fixed imo

maxjapank

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

The issue isn't the tick it's how it's virtually instant. When I get below a 50% threshold I just drop down and not only just me many players are experiencing that issue. People say well you can CC,Block,Heal,etc but unfortunately you can't all the time. .

There are many instants and equally damaging skills that will kill me. And I can't always cc, block, or heal outta those. And RD isn't instant. It's a 3 sec channel and the damge you see on your death recap is that full 3-sec total damage. Yes, the last tick under 10% is big. But that tick is overflow damage. 10% of 25k health is only 2500 health. So what if our RD does 10k damage on that tick. Doesn't matter. Anything that did 2501 damage would kill you.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

I suggest making it dodge-able...

It was dodge-able at one point because it was bugged. And guess what? Nearly every Templar took it off their bar in pvp. It was too easy for anybody to avoid it, it wasn't worth the slot. Making it dodge-able isn't the answer. Not while it is a channel. You would need to make it an Instant skill. But other classes already have those. And why can't one or two skills be a hard counter to dodging?

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

People say no because it'll ruin the skill even though I'm sure correct me if I'm wrong templars has a hard CC where you can stop someone from dodge rolling so you can cast that insta kill RD.

We have two hard ccs. One is Toppling charge, a gap closer that fails to go off many times. You push the button and nothing happens. You push it another 3..4...times and nothing happens. Damn...I just died because I couldn't cc the guy. The Other is Javelin, a ranged spear that has a knockback. This is a great skill and often what I use to get my RD kills. Because I often don't get an RD kill unless I cc the opponent first. I need to cc him because my RD is a channel and it leaves me open to being bashed/interrupted.

You see...RD is not just a mindless skill. We are looking to hit the person with it when they are at low health and preferably when they are cc'd. Just like any other execute.

olsborg

Agree with OP. Either: Reduce the range to the same as impale. Make it dodgeable like every other execute.

WillhelmBlack

Just cast a bloody shield and heal, fs.

Brrrofski

I honestly don't have an issue with RD.

When people are at 50% health do you like try to heal? Or is everyone so use to dodgerollohg about they forget to heal?

This doesn't do or hit me for barely anything at 50 health.

MaxwellC

@myrrrorb14_ESO
People are missing the point the damage re-cap isn't what's bothering me; what's bothering me is the instant death that I can't escape even if I drink a potion while spamming vigor/igneous shield, that to me is outrageous. I get it making it dodge-able would supposedly get rid of 'everyone' slotting it (which seems more of an opinion due to prior patches I'd still die by it but not as frequent). If that's the case then make the range equivalent to draining shot (bow skill) or destructive clench and the execute would be balanced. You cannot have the best of both worlds and say it's a balanced skill because its most certainly not.

@maxjapank I'm quite sure toppling charge isn't a hard CC and javelin too (Hard CCs go through block). I was thinking of the templar mage guard NPCs light prism thing, wasn't sure if templars had access to that skill as it goes through block and stuns you (not that orb that reflects damage).

Yeah there are plenty of skills that do high damage like ultimates but guess what... I can at-least survive/dodge every single ultimate/ability in the game aside from radiant destruction. Not every templar took off RD when it was bugged because prior to TG update (I believe that's when it was fixed) it was still used but after they pinned you down. If you don't want it dodge-able then reduce it's range like I said it has to be one of the 3 I listed before. Also I'll repeat myself again, it's not the high damage value on the re-cap that's annoying me it's the simple fact that once I'm 30-40% health even when I'm healing to 50% I get 1 shotted and there's nothing I can really do unless I pop corrosive armor (which I do not slot in PvP unless it's for tactical captures). Every other execute I can dodge or survive just a little to get away but RD is one that I cannot.

WillhelmBlack

Next update won't be a problem everyone will have a damage shield scaling off their highest resource. Then just heal.

Baconlad

Multiple characters smacking you with ANY execute continuously will kill you, even from full health. There are plenty of ways to mitigate it. It is the ONLY DAMAGING skill I have against a stamina build, and the damage as stated above is not OP above execute range. It is just a moderate to low damage skill above 25% health. If multiple players are attacking you, and you die...you either didn't properly mitigate, or you were just overwhelmed regardless of the ability used. I'd rather the range stay and damage scale start at 35-40% health if anything does happen to it...stop *** with my class. Cause Zos doesn't seem to like to fix our skills, but nerf due to crying by inexperienced players. Learn to counter bro ('s).

myrrrorb14_ESO

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@myrrrorb14_ESO
People are missing the point the damage re-cap isn't what's bothering me; what's bothering me is the instant death that I can't escape even if I drink a potion while spamming vigor/igneous shield, that to me is outrageous. I get it making it dodge-able would supposedly get rid of 'everyone' slotting it (which seems more of an opinion due to prior patches I'd still die by it but not as frequent). If that's the case then make the range equivalent to draining shot (bow skill) or destructive clench and the execute would be balanced. You cannot have the best of both worlds and say it's a balanced skill because its most certainly not.

@maxjapank I'm quite sure toppling charge isn't a hard CC and javelin too (Hard CCs go through block). I was thinking of the templar mage guard NPCs light prism thing, wasn't sure if templars had access to that skill as it goes through block and stuns you (not that orb that reflects damage).

Yeah there are plenty of skills that do high damage like ultimates but guess what... I can at-least survive/dodge every single ultimate/ability in the game aside from radiant destruction. Not every templar took off RD when it was bugged because prior to TG update (I believe that's when it was fixed) it was still used but after they pinned you down. If you don't want it dodge-able then reduce it's range like I said it has to be one of the 3 I listed before. Also I'll repeat myself again, it's not the high damage value on the re-cap that's annoying me it's the simple fact that once I'm 30-40% health even when I'm healing to 50% I get 1 shotted and there's nothing I can really do unless I pop corrosive armor (which I do not slot in PvP unless it's for tactical captures). Every other execute I can dodge or survive just a little to get away but RD is one that I cannot.

Unfortunately vigor is a HoT and because of Sorcerers all shields got nerfed to heck. Heals were nerfed too which is why it's hard to recover from damage. The range is the exact same as venom arrow (bow interuprt) and destructive reach (destroy morph that I recommend for PvP). It sounds like PvP is out of whack. I blame sorcs. Shields should be normalized so that everyone has a decent shield regardless if you stack magicka or not. Heals too have been over nerfed imo. I'm not sure what the solution is. It's been my opinion that they need to completely sever PvE skills from PvP. Start over and try to balance it better.

MaxwellC

@myrrrorb14_ESO
I know vigor is a HoT that heals you for the total of the tooltip over the course of 5 seconds but combing that with rally and igneous + crit/etc that's one strong heal especially if you're a DK with igneous shield. I have to disagree heals have been nerf'd in a good way infact I feel they need to be nerf'd a bit more as I hate trying to fight a 1vx situation where you have 2 templar healbots (I call them healbots as they just CC run and spam heals on the group) out healing burst damage which as a DK in PvP all I got is a dizzing swing into animation cancel heavy/executioners (too bad my skills suck in PvP except for take flight).

In this next patch ZoS is heading into more of a bad way with stamina builds becoming a bit more powerful, all though I'm happy/mad that my DK is going poison route (since I love fire) it'll increase the damage out-put but for PvP that will mean nothing unless it's 1v1 situations. If they decide to give me a skill like oh idk venom whip or even a flames of oblivion from 1.6 then I'd be happy with that.

Back on the subject of balance now. Yeah ZoS hasn't done a fantastic job when it comes to balance; the proof is the fact they say let's 'balance' Magicka Builds first then 'balance' stamina builds in 4 months, which in terms means let's make OP skills for 4 months then downgrade and make the other builds OP for another 4 months. They need to stop these gap changes and do it all at once so everything will be on the same footing.

maxjapank

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@maxjapank I'm quite sure toppling charge isn't a hard CC and javelin too (Hard CCs go through block).

I'm a bit tired of this whole wanting to nerf something without understanding the Templar class as a whole. I played a good two hours of pvp tonight and died to one RD. I did get a some killing blows though with RD, but they were around 10-20% health (about 5k health) and deserved to get beat those times.

As for hard cc, I think you have it wrong. A hard cc as I understand it is something that causes you to lose control of your character. Knock backs, stuns, fears. Toppling charge is a Templar stun. Javelin is a knock back. These are hard ccs. You must break free. You also get cc immunity.

Soft ccs are snares and roots. These allow you some control of your character. You can still heal or attack. There is no cc immunity given when you purge or dodge roll out of these.

The only cc that I know of that will go through block is fear. Fear was changed in this way to give NBs power to attack from stealth, as before that, everyone would just hold block so the NB couldn't stun you. Now when you hold block, they can opt to use fear and get several attacks off. Currently, it is the single most powerful cc in my opinion. But you do get cc immunity to it if you break free.

Anyways if you have a different understanding of ccs, then I'm all ears.

Edit. Sorry. The daze from Illuninous shards could go through block. I haven't used Illuminuos in some time. So not really sure about now. But dazes break on any damage.

Nogawd

Of course, I'm a templar, but I play against a lot of templars too. Those who hit me early with it, 1-2 beams won't do much to me, even in all light armor. I can usually line of sight them/dodge roll i to a safe place if I have to, or heal simply through it.

Rarely have I been hit by 3-4 at a time, but very similar to most other moves in the game (wrecking blow, for example) if you are getting clobbered by them, well, you should die.If you are taking a risk being out in the open, what do you expect?

*shrug*