A Solution for Perma-Rolling

Ffastyl

Perma-rolling threads have been resurfacing of late so the cost reduction might not be enough. However compounding a nerf with the cost reduction is overkill. Period. So this solution would replace it entirely ingame.

Inspired by other action games with resource based combat, the proposed solution is to stop Stamina Recovery for the duration of the roll. Whether this be stopping recovery for 1 second (ticking 3 seconds after rolling) or resetting the tick timer (ticks 2 seconds after rolling), by cutting off resource regeneration while performing an action guarantees it cannot be spammed excessively -- we all have limited Stamina pools that will run out sooner or later. This solution is more punishing to roll spammers, as while not a continuously increasing cost, they have a very real limit on the number of consecutive rolls; for players that roll periodically, rolling every 2 (or 3, depending) seconds incurs no penalties.

Please keep discussion focused on this aspect/solution, assuming all other areas of the game are balanced or being balanced. If we dive into things such as block nerf or damage shields, the discussion will go in circles with a "Why nerf me when that's clearly broken/badly designed still?!"

Durham

Seek another solution.

NO ONE CAN PERMA ROLL .... Please share a video .....
I want to see it ....

Zyle

Keep the current balance.

Dodge roll has stacking cost? Not sure what you're talking about OP

Ffastyl

@Zyle Dodge Roll Fatigue increases cost by 33% for 4 seconds after dodging. It leaves a green/white aura around your feet or bottom of the screen if in first person. Whether it stacks like Bolt Escape is unclear.

Zyle

Keep the current balance.

Ffastyl wrote: »

@Zyle Dodge Roll Fatigue increases cost by 33% for 4 seconds after dodging. It leaves a green/white aura around your feet or bottom of the screen if in first person. Whether it stacks like Bolt Escape is unclear.

I can definitely confirm that it stacks like bolt escape, I've had a 8k cost dodge roll.

KatzMainTank

I'm not gonna vote since I don't see the relevance of more Stamina penalties, especially in this version of ESO. But I see the issues you're having a problem with. You can still catch a player in a dodge roll with attacks that are now incapable of being dodged, doubling a light attack to kb/cc if you're weaving to counter the timer of the players dodge roll, root. I'd have to see a video example to see what's happening to give you any viable ideas...

WillhelmBlack

No such thing, they nerfed it months ago. If you're talking about Shuffle stacking, that's a bug.

ToRelax

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Yeah, remove the stacking cost, please.

WillhelmBlack

ToRelax wrote: »

Yeah, remove the stacking cost, please.

and while you're at it, remove gap closer snares, streak cost stack and Stam regeneration whilst blocking. Let's have PvP back please.

Solariken

Keep the current balance.

Perma-rolling is not a thing anymore.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Ok you magicka users just need to stop posting.

Blocking/mitigation/resistance = horrible under-powered and needs buffed so bad

Rolling/dodging = Ok spot right now

damage shields/shield stacking = grossly laughably over powered and needs "balanced" no if, and, but, or "L2P" will change the fact that damage shields are OP.

Strider_Roshin

What are you talking about? If anything the current punishment for dodge rolling is too harsh. You do realize that the resource management for stamina players is garbage in comparison to magicka builds right? Here's this for a solution, reduce the cool down time to two seconds rather than the four seconds that it is now. And while they're at it how about not removing stamina regen while dodge rolling, bashing, or breaking free for console players.

Emma_Overload

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I don't like dodge rollers, but what I would really rather see is for all similar nerfs to be REMOVED, instead of adding new nerfs.

Give me my low cost, unrestricted Ball of Lightning back, including a 6 second orb, and you can dodge roll all you want!

lolo_01b16_ESO

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Dodge roll costs should be unnerfed, similar to other defensive mechanics. If you have someone who specs fully defensive, he should be nearly impossible to kill. I mean, you can just ignore him, he won't be able to do much damage then.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

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Play stamina before you ask for stuff like this we have it hard enough currently.

Sunburnt_Penguin

Keep the current balance.

Permanent dodge rolling doesn't exist, you know... Because of the stamina cost

Either provide video evidence or your opinion is invalid.

What's likely happened is that you've just come across a good player who's using dodge-rolling to evade attacks. Something which all good players do.

Furthermore: IMO dodge-rolling is the ideal defensive solution for stamina builds to offset the benefit magicka builds get from Healing Ward. I would've selected "unnerf dodge-rolling" if it was an option because it's currently not as effective as that.

Alcast

You can not perma dodgeroll. Every time you dodgeroll within 4 seconds you get an increase of 33% the cost and it does stack.

Drain his resources by CCing him etc. Or use non dodgeable attacks.

strikeback1247

Keep the current balance.

I first thought this was a necro'ed thread from last year lol

Edziu

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as someone other said it:

remove stamina regen pls, thx

no stam reg while blocking. reason? not good, just it was to op
no stam reg while sprinting. reason ok for logic :d
no stam reg while sneaking. reason? not good, sneaking isnt to fatiguing like sprinting
now you want block stam reg for moment affter roll dodge

now for magica for "balance"
damage shield, mitigate 100% damage nad 100% immune to crits, no any damage into health like while blocking why int stop magice regen just while holding damge shield like normal shield on stamina?


and maybe for hate magica users:
stamina build can block more, sprind more, sneak more and rolldodge more than magica build, why? because logic. this all cost stamina and need stamina to do it, for now all these thing arnt to chep when stamina is together needed also for dps. yes, we can more spamm rolldodge, break free etc but then we cant do max dps because we are losing stamina from dps for utility.

whe mages can spam rolls, sprit etc ans still have hight amount of stamina? logic
mages usign magice, they arent trained with strength to have much stamina for utility etc like stamina builds, mages are trained for spell casting etc lol, not for physical effort, you have much heals, damage shields what absorbin 100% incoming damage and these shield dont cost you more magica when getting hits like stamina with normal shield.

you are mages, not commont soldiers so this is logical you have less stamna for rolldodges etc than stamina build when you have other much better bonuses what stamina build dont have or dont working that good as on magica build

we on stam builds dont have good effectiveness from heals and utility from magica poll (stam nb cant spam to much cloak, just maybe 2-3 times and no magica for other buffs, stam dk also dont spam magic buffs etc, just when needed and buffs and like other classes), we cant spam magica utility skills just to max survivability so why you want more survivability from stamina poll? and if you cant get it why you want nerf more stamina survivability what is now such nerfed?

maybe look on you and start talking about some nerfs to magice...because if you can see. no cc on magica users, then dont need stamina to break free etc and they are immortals with dmg shields, heals etc.
the only normal why to kill magica user is just fast burn his stamina on cc and finish him. to kill magica user without cc isnt tha easy and fast as how you can nuke stam user who dont use dodgerolls

Jade1986

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Honestly there needs to be a regen penalty, that or blocking needs to be massively un nerfed.

nordsavage

Keep the current balance.

PvP Stamina nerfs are messing up PvE for stamina builds. Enough is enough. Dodge rolling already has a penalty. Maybe you magicka builds should not regenerate magicka for 1 seconds after casting a spell. See how you like it.

KenaPKK

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No.

What we need is no penalty on dodge roll, bolt escape, etc etc.

What we need also is lower sustain overall. We all have infinite sustain right now, so fights are relegated to burst damage, and we have to have balance bandaids like these stacking costs. That's the real crux of the issue.

PvP is much more balanced on Azura's where we don't have CP.

Edziu

Seek another solution.

KenaPKK wrote: »

No.

What we need is no penalty on dodge roll, bolt escape, etc etc.

What we need also is lower sustain overall. We all have infinite sustain right now, so fights are relegated to burst damage, and we have to have balance bandaids like these stacking costs. That's the real crux of the issue.

PvP is much more balanced on Azura's where we don't have CP.

true, as I see exp players now iths so to boring...1vs1 fight with good players are minimum 10 mins...some unneeded, just waiting for mistake your opponent and thats all, nwo good fight can never be end until just mistake or lag, some players just after to much time fight just doing draw and going on other sides

sluice

Keep the current balance.

Stamina already have more than enough recovery penalties.

OdinForge

KenaPKK wrote: »

No.

What we need is no penalty on dodge roll, bolt escape, etc etc.

What we need also is lower sustain overall. We all have infinite sustain right now, so fights are relegated to burst damage, and we have to have balance bandaids like these stacking costs. That's the real crux of the issue.

PvP is much more balanced on Azura's where we don't have CP.

I agree, nothing has really worked since the IC nerf spree. ZOS has been so caught up in trying to hand hold these players who can't even deal with dodge post nerf, destroying the game for everyone else at the same time.

It's high time we brought back strength to the player, and addressed the only true issue since the removal of softcaps, infinite sustain.

Strong defense and burst are not to be looked at as bad. Prior to 1.6 you could have both, but you had to learn how to manage your stats.

Ffastyl

KenaPKK wrote: »

What we need also is lower sustain overall. We all have infinite sustain right now, so fights are relegated to burst damage, and we have to have balance bandaids like these stacking costs. That's the real crux of the issue.

PvP is much more balanced on Azura's where we don't have CP.

That's really the aim of the replacement nerf. Cost increase can be somewhat overcome if cost reduction and recovery are stacked high enough. As mentioned above, fights can last up to 10 minutes or longer between optimized and skilled players. The goal of resetting recovery ticks when dodging is to reduce the penalty we have now while still making infinite rolls impossible. No, this nerf will not stack with the current one, it would replace it.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Ok you magicka users just need to stop posting.

I'm surprised @Forestd16b14_ESO You know from your own threads I am a front line charging warrior in platemail.

This poll comes from seeing perma-dodge threads resurface and playing Dark Souls recently. This solution is almost a rip of how FromSoftware handles roll dodging: Stamina regeneration stops until the roll is complete.

I will need to rephrase the OP as lack of sleep + stress has put my writing toward the terse side. I always handle one issue in a discussion though, despite wanting to handle several or several other issues being related. Discussions on balance have a hard time going anywhere (turns into "nerf me? nerf you!") when multiple facets of the game are involved. Assuming other facets are balanced alongside this (i.e. ignoring them) helps expedite discussion about the topic at hand.

DaveMoeDee

Drop CP in PvP so they stop messing with skills and mechanics to address this.

Ffastyl

Edited the OP to something less terse.

OdinForge

Ffastyl wrote: »

This poll comes from seeing perma-dodge threads resurface and playing Dark Souls recently. This solution is almost a rip of how FromSoftware handles roll dodging: Stamina regeneration stops until the roll is complete.

Dark Souls is a completely different type of PvP, from the PvP done in an MMO like ESO.

You can attack three times in Dark Souls, and be out of stamina and unable to dodge right away. The balance is that your opponent isn't going to be spamming infinite attacks and gap closers on you during this with infinite sustain, as Kena mentioned in his post. You cannot compare Dark Souls PvP to ESO PvP, especially post 1.6.

The only solution ESO needed, was higher costs of everything after the removal of softcaps and no nerfs to active defense and burst damage output.

Lettigall

Seek another solution.

I think OP mistook bugged dodge from Shuffle for actual dodge roll.

Jade1986

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nordsavage wrote: »

PvP Stamina nerfs are messing up PvE for stamina builds. Enough is enough. Dodge rolling already has a penalty. Maybe you magicka builds should not regenerate magicka for 1 seconds after casting a spell. See how you like it.

You dont get a penalty for casting a stam based attack. Magicka classes do on the other hand get penalties for escapes ( IE bolt escape ). The problem with the roll is you can literally dodge 1000 attacks if they all attack you at once, negating all that damage. There needs to be a limit, or there needs to be a penalty. Why should block get shafted that hard when you dont even block all the damage, and roll is ok?