Trueflame Eu-Pc

AbraXuSeXile

Theres so much crap over the last few pages im not even sure who to argue with.

Valencer

Biro123 wrote: »

To be honest, I've seen other MMO's get to this stage - where PVP ends up dominated by a small number of very effective guilds - then pvp dies cos the pugs all leave.

But Cyrodiil is dominated by the pug zergs right now. There's literally nothing except mindless swarms of players running around. Guild groups get wiped really quickly by destro ultis and negates so if a guild wants to play the map they usually have to PvDoor keeps before the swarm arrives or they might get overrun quickly.

I guess Im just not seeing what youre seeing.

Biro123

Valencer wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

To be honest, I've seen other MMO's get to this stage - where PVP ends up dominated by a small number of very effective guilds - then pvp dies cos the pugs all leave.

But Cyrodiil is dominated by the pug zergs right now. There's literally nothing except mindless swarms of players running around. Guild groups get wiped really quickly by destro ultis and negates so if a guild wants to play the map they usually have to PvDoor keeps before the swarm arrives or they might get overrun quickly.

I guess Im just not seeing what youre seeing.

I guess not. I suppose there are two sides to everything.

I wouldn't even say pug zergs though.. That implies some kind of grouping and therefore co-ordination. Its more like armies of loners all rushing to the same crossed swords. It definitely happens that guild groups get overwhelmed by numbers - but how many times have the guys wiping you been wiped by you beforehand? It is a toxic mechanic - and I'm not blaming any guild group for running it - it's Zos that made it so effective - but as a sole zergling, you see that ball group in the distance full of swirly fire, stormcouds and ice, all moving with major expedition, with a few streakers (oo-er) etc. in front to catch the runners, you KNOW that if you get anywhere near shooting range, you're dead(unless you can run major + minor exped, and have plenty of stam to sprint). It makes people avoid combat - it makes the whole area a no-go area, cos sooner or later you get caught.
And without some pug leaders to open up other fronts (which it seems we're short of at the mo), well, there's nothing to do other than go tome-hunting instead. Thing is - you go to where the fight is - but those groups are so effective, you can't fight, you just avoid till get bored of getting caught then leave. That's my problem. Where the action is, you just can't get a fight anymore.

Have a lot of respect for you guys for doing what you do so well - I'm just worried that with the current meta for it - it will ultimately lead to a decline in PVP.

covenant_merchant

Biro123 wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

To be honest, I've seen other MMO's get to this stage - where PVP ends up dominated by a small number of very effective guilds - then pvp dies cos the pugs all leave.

But Cyrodiil is dominated by the pug zergs right now. There's literally nothing except mindless swarms of players running around. Guild groups get wiped really quickly by destro ultis and negates so if a guild wants to play the map they usually have to PvDoor keeps before the swarm arrives or they might get overrun quickly.

I guess Im just not seeing what youre seeing.

I guess not. I suppose there are two sides to everything.

I wouldn't even say pug zergs though.. That implies some kind of grouping and therefore co-ordination. Its more like armies of loners all rushing to the same crossed swords. It definitely happens that guild groups get overwhelmed by numbers - but how many times have the guys wiping you been wiped by you beforehand? It is a toxic mechanic - and I'm not blaming any guild group for running it - it's Zos that made it so effective - but as a sole zergling, you see that ball group in the distance full of swirly fire, stormcouds and ice, all moving with major expedition, with a few streakers (oo-er) etc. in front to catch the runners, you KNOW that if you get anywhere near shooting range, you're dead(unless you can run major + minor exped, and have plenty of stam to sprint). It makes people avoid combat - it makes the whole area a no-go area, cos sooner or later you get caught.
And without some pug leaders to open up other fronts (which it seems we're short of at the mo), well, there's nothing to do other than go tome-hunting instead. Thing is - you go to where the fight is - but those groups are so effective, you can't fight, you just avoid till get bored of getting caught then leave. That's my problem. Where the action is, you just can't get a fight anymore.

Have a lot of respect for you guys for doing what you do so well - I'm just worried that with the current meta for it - it will ultimately lead to a decline in PVP.

Well there are fewer ball groups like that running around nowadays. They're more visible, true, but that's just because there's little action happening on multiple fronts, as you said. But overall, there are fewer players, fewer organised guild groups, and fewer pug lords.
And what's left after OT hit packs in uncoordinated large swarms. In my opinion, zergball groups aren't the problem. It's the 40+ AD/EP/DC stacking at one spot because they know they can't survive otherwise. Can't blame them though now - they would just one shotted with tremor/viper/selene/velidreth/widowmaker should they venture a bit further from the mass.

DeanTheCat

Lava_Croft

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Can I have whatever you're grinding off of your claws?

Lava_Croft

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master Kas complaining about nightcap is like Wrobel complaining about proc gear.

Still entertaining revival of the thread though!

Show me when I even tried to siege a trikeep past 1-2 o clock in the morning with a organized group Kris. I'll make a character named "Kris is a lord" when you do so. Recent events plx.

But yeah, atleast the thread is alive

Babe, I've capped quite a few maps with you during the night, against underwhelming opposition. It's just silly to complain about this particular thing since everybody does and has done it, including yourself, including myself.

You're not going to bullcrap anyone with a bit of PvP experience in the main campaign.

Etaniel

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master Kas complaining about nightcap is like Wrobel complaining about proc gear.

Still entertaining revival of the thread though!

Show me when I even tried to siege a trikeep past 1-2 o clock in the morning with a organized group Kris. I'll make a character named "Kris is a lord" when you do so. Recent events plx.

But yeah, atleast the thread is alive

Babe, I've capped quite a few maps with you during the night, against underwhelming opposition. It's just silly to complain about this particular thing since everybody every faction does and has done it, including yourself, including myself.

You're not going to bullcrap anyone with a bit of PvP experience in the main campaign.

Some people still have self respect

Master_Kas

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master Kas complaining about nightcap is like Wrobel complaining about proc gear.

Still entertaining revival of the thread though!

Show me when I even tried to siege a trikeep past 1-2 o clock in the morning with a organized group Kris. I'll make a character named "Kris is a lord" when you do so. Recent events plx.

But yeah, atleast the thread is alive

Babe, I've capped quite a few maps with you during the night, against underwhelming opposition. It's just silly to complain about this particular thing since everybody does and has done it, including yourself, including myself.

You're not going to bullcrap anyone with a bit of PvP experience in the main campaign.

Yawn. So I've been Pvdooring farragut and kings with emp, and a organised group vs a handful of EP 6 in the morning? Keep dreaming.

What I have done is assisted in crowning myself or some friend (meaning ring keeps, not trikeeps btw) in the offhours. Wasn't with any kind of organised group tough. Gate camping ? Nope, not since i left EP/NL which was quite some cycles ago.

But whatever floats your boat you salty lizard.

Erondil

Biro123 wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

To be honest, I've seen other MMO's get to this stage - where PVP ends up dominated by a small number of very effective guilds - then pvp dies cos the pugs all leave.

But Cyrodiil is dominated by the pug zergs right now. There's literally nothing except mindless swarms of players running around. Guild groups get wiped really quickly by destro ultis and negates so if a guild wants to play the map they usually have to PvDoor keeps before the swarm arrives or they might get overrun quickly.

I guess Im just not seeing what youre seeing.

I guess not. I suppose there are two sides to everything.

I wouldn't even say pug zergs though.. That implies some kind of grouping and therefore co-ordination. Its more like armies of loners all rushing to the same crossed swords. It definitely happens that guild groups get overwhelmed by numbers - but how many times have the guys wiping you been wiped by you beforehand? It is a toxic mechanic - and I'm not blaming any guild group for running it - it's Zos that made it so effective - but as a sole zergling, you see that ball group in the distance full of swirly fire, stormcouds and ice, all moving with major expedition, with a few streakers (oo-er) etc. in front to catch the runners, you KNOW that if you get anywhere near shooting range, you're dead(unless you can run major + minor exped, and have plenty of stam to sprint). It makes people avoid combat - it makes the whole area a no-go area, cos sooner or later you get caught.
And without some pug leaders to open up other fronts (which it seems we're short of at the mo), well, there's nothing to do other than go tome-hunting instead. Thing is - you go to where the fight is - but those groups are so effective, you can't fight, you just avoid till get bored of getting caught then leave. That's my problem. Where the action is, you just can't get a fight anymore.

Have a lot of respect for you guys for doing what you do so well - I'm just worried that with the current meta for it - it will ultimately lead to a decline in PVP.

I agree with @Valencer , to me its because 90% of a faction is stacking somewhere, either to take down a guild raid either to take a keep that the PvP is declining that much. Back in 1.3-1.6 (the times I was almost exclusively playing solo) there was many more guild raids yet it was barely an issue as a solo player to find smallscale because there was still people clever/brave enough to fight away from the farming raids and the pug zergs. Now with the lower pop caps and that the playerbase has renewed, the few people trying to smallscale either have to go to a spot where a guild raid is either have to face a giant army of pugs to find fights, and neither of those are enjoyable.
And well what we usually name pug zergs in eso are pretty much always a bunch of ungrouped people stacking with the lfg group(s), the fact that they are ungrouped barely matters as they will still follow the flow on alessia bridge or where ballgroups are farming them.

Lava_Croft

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master Kas complaining about nightcap is like Wrobel complaining about proc gear.

Still entertaining revival of the thread though!

Show me when I even tried to siege a trikeep past 1-2 o clock in the morning with a organized group Kris. I'll make a character named "Kris is a lord" when you do so. Recent events plx.

But yeah, atleast the thread is alive

Babe, I've capped quite a few maps with you during the night, against underwhelming opposition. It's just silly to complain about this particular thing since everybody does and has done it, including yourself, including myself.

You're not going to bullcrap anyone with a bit of PvP experience in the main campaign.

Yawn. So I've been Pvdooring farragut and kings with emp, and a organised group vs a handful of EP 6 in the morning? Keep dreaming.

What I have done is assisted in crowning myself or some friend (meaning ring keeps, not trikeeps btw) in the offhours. Wasn't with any kind of organised group tough. Gate camping ? Nope, not since i left EP/NL which was quite some cycles ago.

But whatever floats your boat you salty lizard.

You're still trying to bullcrap someone who has a bit of PvP experience in the main campaign. Don't bother, you're starting to sound like a certain chav.

@Etaniel: Ganking with some friends between keeps or taking a resource and waiting for scrubs is selfrespect? Do you need a ladder to get on that horse?

Not a single experienced PvP player is a saint.

Etaniel

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Master Kas complaining about nightcap is like Wrobel complaining about proc gear.

Still entertaining revival of the thread though!

Show me when I even tried to siege a trikeep past 1-2 o clock in the morning with a organized group Kris. I'll make a character named "Kris is a lord" when you do so. Recent events plx.

But yeah, atleast the thread is alive

Babe, I've capped quite a few maps with you during the night, against underwhelming opposition. It's just silly to complain about this particular thing since everybody does and has done it, including yourself, including myself.

You're not going to bullcrap anyone with a bit of PvP experience in the main campaign.

Yawn. So I've been Pvdooring farragut and kings with emp, and a organised group vs a handful of EP 6 in the morning? Keep dreaming.

What I have done is assisted in crowning myself or some friend (meaning ring keeps, not trikeeps btw) in the offhours. Wasn't with any kind of organised group tough. Gate camping ? Nope, not since i left EP/NL which was quite some cycles ago.

But whatever floats your boat you salty lizard.

You're still trying to bullcrap someone who has a bit of PvP experience in the main campaign. Don't bother, you're starting to sound like a certain chav.

@Etaniel: Ganking with some friends between keeps or taking a resource and waiting for scrubs is selfrespect? Do you need a ladder to get on that horse?

Not a single experienced PvP player is a saint.

Next you are going to say "playing in Cyro is self respect perhaps?"

Lava_Croft

Selfrespect is a rather hard to define thing. While you may proudly proclaim you have selfrespect because you don't nightcap, someone else might laugh and point out that farming scrubs in Azura's Star has little to do with selfrespect.

Tower_Of_Shame

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Selfrespect is a rather hard to define thing. While you may proudly proclaim you have selfrespect because you don't nightcap, someone else might laugh and point out that farming scrubs in Azura's Star has little to do with selfrespect.

This made my day! Keep up the good work, really!

Mojomonkeyman

At the moment fights are so few and concentrated on the map, that ball groups dictate the locations of those, while smallscalers are forced to share the same spots to find any action at all.

Small scalers of course get Dawson'ed if they are partaking in the action since most EU ballgroups don't hesitate to dump a fully charged group attack with 3 eots even on soloers. Those groups mainly consist of mediocre players. So they still manage to lose some Lemmings when tryharding, which is quite fun to watch sometimes.

Nonetheless, being insta chased by 8-12 lowskill ts minions whenever I decide to have some action is dull and sad.

So yeah, mainly responsible for the current sadness of pvp are ball groups, especially the ones running major groups before primetime, speaking as a solo player, since they bind the little pvp that's left in endless farming dumbness, forcing pugs to clump, reducing the number of fights on the map even further.

So my appeal to all you handholding heroes: spread out on the map, create more fights, make pvp better instead of running brainless in circles around a resource while being oftentimes the biggest zerg on the map yourself.

Love.

Lava_Croft

After more than 2.5 years of the same monkeys running back and forth the same location(s), I think @Mojomonkeyman is asking the monkeys to do tricks they have not yet learned.

Saddest thing about PvP these days is that even the most basic tactics seem to have been 'forgotten' by almost all players.
Something as simple as flanking the zerg that's camping a resource instead of attacking head-on and uphill, 50/50-ing keeps behind enemy lines and so on are a thing of the past and replaced by endlessly throwing corpses dressed up in Wrobel attire at the few locations where the monkeys congregate.

A sad, sad state of affairs which is a blindingly bright reflection of the current player base and the mechanics that allow this player base to exist.

Aiphaton

Lava_Croft

Tired meme requesting assisted suicide.

Valencer

Ive actively played in Cyrodiil for 2 years now and my experience tells me that if you have to assure yourself and everyone around you something was an epic late night struggle instead of a boring PvDoor job, it probably wasn't.

But hey, so long as you're having fun, right? It's a game after all.

Lava_Croft

Let's complain about the weather, more productive.

Loicozor

Buy an umbrella in crown store

pjwb16_ESO

Loicozor wrote: »

Buy an umbrella in crown store

Thats P2W

Lava_Croft

Umbrella yaddiyaddi proc gear yaddiyaddi Wrobel is a primate yaddiyaddi play more Minecraft.

Syrana

oh well that happens when u cant sleep :')

Cogo

Is there an achievement for the amount of excuses that people comes up with?

cokris

We can point at a number of reasons to why the state of the pvp is what it is atm, but putting the blame solely to the organised groups is naive aswell. Lately I've seen so many randoms in chat "Lf ap farming group". The mindset of the pugs have changed into a farming mode instead of just going into cyrodiil to have fun.

On top of that, we don't educate our pugs anymore. Back in 1.whatever we educated the pugs on how to handle different builds, situations, sieges etc. I see none of this anymore, and I get it, people get tired of putting in the effort, but we can't really QQ about people not knowing how to play when no one is teaching them. Only so many have the patience learning by trial and error, especially if they have no idea what there is to choose between.

To be able to change the state of pvp in general would take a collective effort of all parties, and let's just face it, it's not going to happen. The time when guilds had the power of the campaigns and could sit down and agree on terms to not destroy the campaigns is over, and I doubt that we will ever get there again.

Lava_Croft

It's just endless and mindless zerging with a pinch of TS metablobs using Destro Ulti.

Nermy

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's just endless and mindless zerging with a pinch of TS metablobs using Destro Ulti.

That seems to be all we ever come up against now. We go take a resource, we maybe get one blue come and see what happens - next minute we're steamrollered by a full raid or more! (This goes for AD as well.) I'm sure AD and DC feel the same way.

ESO is not the game it was, it's not as much fun as it once was. I still love the PvP but I can't find the same mojo for it anymore. Plus there's loads of people I miss who don't play anymore. Just waiting for the next decent MMO with good co-ordinated PvP...

DeanTheCat

Nermy wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's just endless and mindless zerging with a pinch of TS metablobs using Destro Ulti.

That seems to be all we ever come up against now. We go take a resource, we maybe get one blue come and see what happens - next minute we're steamrollered by a full raid or more! (This goes for AD as well.) I'm sure AD and DC feel the same way.

ESO is not the game it was, it's not as much fun as it once was. I still love the PvP but I can't find the same mojo for it anymore. Plus there's loads of people I miss who don't play anymore. Just waiting for the next decent MMO with good co-ordinated PvP...

Camelot Unchained =P

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Nermy wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's just endless and mindless zerging with a pinch of TS metablobs using Destro Ulti.

That seems to be all we ever come up against now. We go take a resource, we maybe get one blue come and see what happens - next minute we're steamrollered by a full raid or more! (This goes for AD as well.) I'm sure AD and DC feel the same way.

ESO is not the game it was, it's not as much fun as it once was. I still love the PvP but I can't find the same mojo for it anymore. Plus there's loads of people I miss who don't play anymore. Just waiting for the next decent MMO with good co-ordinated PvP...

Camelot Unchained =P

We hope