Trueflame Eu-Pc

Sanct16

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

Victimize

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

pvp in 2016 lul

Master_Kas

Victimize wrote: »

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

pvp in 2016 lul

LOL WTF xDDD

WillhelmBlack

What zergs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tI9MChX8Gg

Don't take too seriously, I'm all about the drama!

Lava_Croft

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

What zergs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tI9MChX8Gg

Don't take too seriously, I'm all about the drama!

"The whole zerg came after me, the whole zerg."

See less than 10 people on screen.

WillhelmBlack

Lava_Croft wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

What zergs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tI9MChX8Gg

Don't take too seriously, I'm all about the drama!

"The whole zerg came after me, the whole zerg."

See less than 10 people on screen.

I know hahaha

WillhelmBlack

I just call a Zerg anything bigger than me, 5 people can Zerg me.

Dont take it seriously, its just me being drunk, raging and being dramatic in TS.

Etaniel

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I just call a Zerg anything bigger than me, 5 people can Zerg me.

Dont take it seriously, its just me being drunk, raging and being dramatic in TS.

You need to differentiate the noun "zerg" and the verb "to zerg".
You can zerg while not being a zerg, but it's hard to not zerg when you are a zerg!
ie : that big zerg of 35 players chased me for 5 minutes
or : those 8 players zerged me down pretty hard

#TheMoreYouKnow

Loicozor

1 player are solo hero basic eso player
2 players are zerg
under 6 are smallscale video hero
12 players are *** zerg destro ultimate spammers
24 players are smallscale organized group cryin about zerg
more than 24 players are Kris running solo with other solo

Scamh

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

Aw poor babies have to go run with the zerg to feel safe.

I call BS.

ps you owe me some salt

ced30

Hi guys, 3rd episode of my pvp series is online!

This is a special episode named "Chain The All!"
Still recorded on Trueflame eu (maybe & sequence from azrua eu but that's it).

https://youtu.be/eu_e5lDTuNw

Just before you click => this is not proc set nonsense.

Master_Fluff

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

What zergs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tI9MChX8Gg

Don't take too seriously, I'm all about the drama!

You're survival rate is not as bad as mine. I've been away from Cyrodiil for a while, though. My survival rate is probably even worse now, what with all the procs that are going off all the time.

Scamh

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

What zergs?

ced30 wrote: »

This is a special episode named "Chain The All!"

Great material. I'm currently editing my series "I've been kiting a templar and 2 mag DKs around this rock for way too long, pls someone kill me", including dramatic commentary, part I (of III).

Lava_Croft

I didn't even finish saying "Well this is a lot of EP..." when Big Boss came along with his warband.

Scamh

What a great story. Do you know other stories.

(2, loic)

Loicozor

Do more, let's proc the emote

Sanct16

Another day of my ping getting rekt... Yaaay Zeni

Derra

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

They can do that when they fix cloak and infernal guardian not everyone mains a sorc.

Loicozor

Perma sneak option is the worst idea ever... Rekt by a full sneaky 24 blob few days ago with a friend, full ulti on 2 guys. Nice move great pvp.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

I kind of disagree and agree with you. Imo one problem is there is far too much resource generation in the game which leads to excessive mobility and escape this leaves players who don't understand this turning to either ganking to "win" or teaming up with more and more others.
Stealth is part of this as you mentioned also Perma survivability e.g. streak / dodge contributes. I don't really think the community is any more toxic then a general online space but quite often those accusing others of being so are just encouraging it rather than helping to create something better (I'm speaking in general not about your comments). For example there are those who enjoy fighting large numbers (in comparison to their group size) but only when they win and as soon as they lose a fight with was clearly not in their favour they rage about it to the other players against them.
The other side of the coin is that because there is poor performance in game you can often feel "cheated" of victory and put this blame on the players you are facing in combat where as really it is the fault of the game creating more of a toxic blame based environment.
Similarly there are also those who choose to exploit any advantage they can for victory (double mundus was a good example of this) it only escalates the problem because more players are required to defeat the enemy leading to more poor performance and more bad feeling.

A huge part of the problem is the lack of direction to campaign based combat. Leading the ap farmers to resent the campaign players and vice versa. If there was a reason to win a campaign (and a single campaign to fight over) it would be a much better game.

Lava_Croft

The biggest problem is a near complete lack of interest from ZOS when it comes to PvP. Market the game as an MMO with a very large focus on PvP, after release manage the game like it's yet another wannabe WoW theme park MMO that accidentally has a really large PvP arena added to it.

Derra

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

I kind of disagree and agree with you. Imo one problem is there is far too much resource generation in the game which leads to excessive mobility and escape this leaves players who don't understand this turning to either ganking to "win" or teaming up with more and more others.
Stealth is part of this as you mentioned also Perma survivability e.g. streak / dodge contributes.

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.
Edit: The only thing that has changed is every potatoe has infinite resources now - which leads me to believe it´s mainly ppl complaining about it that used to make french fries (haha dk joke haha) out of those who had not figured out infinite resources back in the days.

As for mobility - the mobility is only needed to avoid the problems the stealth system creates in the first place. If people could see what they were up against they could make a decision wether or not to engage in combat - which reduces the need for mobility in the first place. You can avoid the situation where you would have to escape instead of being unable to avoid it and having to escape.
Why do i think this?
Lets make two hypothetical scenarios:
1. They remove infinite resources: Everyone is still in stealth because it puts you at an even bigger advantage because the resources needed to recover from a stealthattack are now much more valuable:
2. They remove sneak: Suddenly classes without mobility can walk out of a keep without having to fear for their live by getting procshotted in a second by enemies they can´t see without a chance to ever escape - because they can suddenly avoid getting gangbanged by watching the players approaching them.

I have to say that i´m 100% convinced scenario 2 would lead to a better pvp in eso whereas 1 would absolutely wreck it.
I agree that having only one or two campaigns would greatly benefit pvp. Imo they should remove azuras star (i know unpopular - but it devides playerbase by requiring different gearsets) and make every player able to spend 561 cp while in a pvp campaign.
Also close everything but blackwater/spellbreaker/trueflame.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

They can do that when they fix cloak and infernal guardian not everyone mains a sorc.

And you - would you be so kind explaining in what way that´s related to the point i´ve made?

They can "fix" infernal and cloak when they finally fix projectiles missing through forced cloak miss even when i´ve popped a detect pot and can see the nb.

Master_Kas

Derra wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

I kind of disagree and agree with you. Imo one problem is there is far too much resource generation in the game which leads to excessive mobility and escape this leaves players who don't understand this turning to either ganking to "win" or teaming up with more and more others.
Stealth is part of this as you mentioned also Perma survivability e.g. streak / dodge contributes.

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.

As for mobility - the mobility is only needed to avoid the problems the stealth system creates in the first place. If people could see what they were up against they could make a decision wether or not to engage in combat - which reduces the need for mobility in the first place. You can avoid the situation where you would have to escape instead of being unable to avoid it and having to escape.
Why do i think this?
Lets make two hypothetical scenarios:
1. They remove infinite resources: Everyone is still in stealth because it puts you at an even bigger advantage because the resources needed to recover from a stealthattack are now much more valuable:
2. They remove sneak: Suddenly classes without mobility can walk out of a keep without having to fear for their live by getting procshotted in a second by enemies they can´t see without a chance to ever escape - because they can suddenly avoid getting gangbanged by watching the players approaching them.

I have to say that i´m 100% convinced scenario 2 would lead to a better pvp in eso whereas 1 would absolutely wreck it.
I agree that having only one or two campaigns would greatly benefit pvp. Imo they should remove azuras star (i know unpopular - but it devides playerbase by requiring different gearsets) and make every player able to spend 561 cp while in a pvp campaign.
Also close everything but blackwater/spellbreaker/trueflame.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

They can do that when they fix cloak and infernal guardian not everyone mains a sorc.

And you - would you be so kind explaining in what way that´s related to the point i´ve made?

They can "fix" infernal and cloak when they finally fix projectiles missing through forced cloak miss even when i´ve popped a detect pot and can see the nb.

Because you are so anti stealth while forgetting there are people who enjoy that playstyle

And qq about cloak this patch is pretty sad tbh, but w/e.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Derra wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.
Edit: The only thing that has changed is every potatoe has infinite resources now - which leads me to believe it´s mainly ppl complaining about it that used to make french fries (haha dk joke haha) out of those who had not figured out infinite resources back in the days.

Well they nerf'd/fixed most of the skills which contributed to infinite resources, If CP didn't exist and stealth wasn't so strong right now the game would be way more enjoyable.
Add in some real pvp objectives and rewards + pvp faction locking and server wide campaigns the game would be even better

The sad part is that the people playing now don't even know how good the game was because they didn't play back then (80%)

Lava_Croft

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.
Edit: The only thing that has changed is every potatoe has infinite resources now - which leads me to believe it´s mainly ppl complaining about it that used to make french fries (haha dk joke haha) out of those who had not figured out infinite resources back in the days.

Well they nerf'd/fixed most of the skills which contributed to infinite resources, If CP didn't exist and stealth wasn't so strong right now the game would be way more enjoyable.
Add in some real pvp objectives and rewards + pvp faction locking and server wide campaigns the game would be even better

The sad part is that the people playing now don't even know how good the game was because they didn't play back then (80%)

ZOS actually went in the opposite direction, changing what used to be an Alliance War into a free for all where factions have no real meaning and winning has no real rewards.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.
Edit: The only thing that has changed is every potatoe has infinite resources now - which leads me to believe it´s mainly ppl complaining about it that used to make french fries (haha dk joke haha) out of those who had not figured out infinite resources back in the days.

Well they nerf'd/fixed most of the skills which contributed to infinite resources, If CP didn't exist and stealth wasn't so strong right now the game would be way more enjoyable.
Add in some real pvp objectives and rewards + pvp faction locking and server wide campaigns the game would be even better

The sad part is that the people playing now don't even know how good the game was because they didn't play back then (80%)

ZOS actually went in the opposite direction, changing what used to be an Alliance War into a free for all where factions have no real meaning and winning has no real rewards.

We can thank consoles for that

Derra

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

I kind of disagree and agree with you. Imo one problem is there is far too much resource generation in the game which leads to excessive mobility and escape this leaves players who don't understand this turning to either ganking to "win" or teaming up with more and more others.
Stealth is part of this as you mentioned also Perma survivability e.g. streak / dodge contributes.

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.

As for mobility - the mobility is only needed to avoid the problems the stealth system creates in the first place. If people could see what they were up against they could make a decision wether or not to engage in combat - which reduces the need for mobility in the first place. You can avoid the situation where you would have to escape instead of being unable to avoid it and having to escape.
Why do i think this?
Lets make two hypothetical scenarios:
1. They remove infinite resources: Everyone is still in stealth because it puts you at an even bigger advantage because the resources needed to recover from a stealthattack are now much more valuable:
2. They remove sneak: Suddenly classes without mobility can walk out of a keep without having to fear for their live by getting procshotted in a second by enemies they can´t see without a chance to ever escape - because they can suddenly avoid getting gangbanged by watching the players approaching them.

I have to say that i´m 100% convinced scenario 2 would lead to a better pvp in eso whereas 1 would absolutely wreck it.
I agree that having only one or two campaigns would greatly benefit pvp. Imo they should remove azuras star (i know unpopular - but it devides playerbase by requiring different gearsets) and make every player able to spend 561 cp while in a pvp campaign.
Also close everything but blackwater/spellbreaker/trueflame.

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You forgot the small groups of highly experienced players who prey on small groups of newbie players, triggering those newbie players to run in largers groups in order to protect themselves. These largers groups will soon be called zergs and the original reason for their existence will be forgotten as the highly experienced players complain about all the zergs.

I quite honestly don't think it's true, and I think your cynical approach really isn't helping this community.

When you get killed by 3 people, I don't think your reaction is the same as if you get trampled by 20.
In one case you will probably question your build and how you played that fight, in the other scenario you will definitely tell yourself that you need to find a large group to run with, because no build whatsoever could help you survive 20 people. Is that being delusional?

The newer players mostly run in large groups because it's the only thing they see. That and the oneshot procs.
If more people played in small groups like we do maybe new players would give that play style a try instead of going to Cyrodiil to zerg surf, get their vigor and resume Pve.

Also I don't see why you keep saying that we prey on newbie players, we prey on everything that moves in Cyro, including general + ranks. Funnily enough those high ranks sometimes play as well as your typical tyro, but that's another issue.

In both cases they will find some excuse to blame it on. I don't really see a big difference in getting killed 30v10 or 9v3. In both cases they will rather come back with more people than to think about anything.

The problem is more along the lines of:
Die 2v2 => come back with more ppl
Die 5v2 => come back with more ppl
Win 7v2 => proceed to teabag and hatewhisper those clearly gamemechanic abusing cheaters while camping their corpses in stealth

This games community is horrible and it´s supported by game mechanics.
I hope i live to see the day when someone at zos realises that they need to remove permanent sneaking (and the resulting ambush/gank/only ever fight when a win is secure mentality) from cyrodiil.

They can do that when they fix cloak and infernal guardian not everyone mains a sorc.

And you - would you be so kind explaining in what way that´s related to the point i´ve made?

They can "fix" infernal and cloak when they finally fix projectiles missing through forced cloak miss even when i´ve popped a detect pot and can see the nb.

Because you are so anti stealth while forgetting there are people who enjoy that playstyle

And qq about cloak this patch is pretty sad tbh, but w/e.

Sorry but you´re so unable to reflect what you say and put the things i say into some form of context to that - i don´t even know if it makes sense trying to explain it to you.

I´ll start with your comment about cloak: I know cloak is broken against gapclosers dots and infernalguardian and whatever else.
However i do play a fully ranged build on a class with only projectile attacks. Cloak works perfectly fine against literally everything i can throw at a NB. Not only that but it´s also bugged in a way that when i reveal a NB using my valuable potion cooldown (which also forces me into melee to work in the first place) it still forces my attacks to miss.
Just because it´s broken in a negative way does not change the fact that it´s broken in a very positive way (100% dmg mitigation 1.5s after use even when exposed) in a different scenario.


On stealth/sneak in general: I do understand there are people who enjoy that playstyle. But i believe for every player enjoying it there were atleast 5 who had a tremendous dislike for it because in eso the only alternative to sneaking is zerging.
The problem is not me not understanding that it´s fun for some. The problem is the people finding this fun not understanding that it creates a miserable gameplayexperience for players not enjoying it because of how abuseable the system is when utilized by groups.

Almost every other game had dedicated classes for this (and those were hard to balance and almost never achieved that) which also had downsides to their specific playstyle because of how powerful the feat of invisibility and innitiative in every pvp encounter is.
In eso you don´t have any downside to stealth/sneak. You get a free CC on your attack. A dmg modifier and the initiative on your opponent.
On top of that every class/spec and build can permanently be invisible and move at reasonable speeds if vampire. This results in the fact that anyone not utilizing this invisibility puts themselves at a giant freaking disatvantage. It leads to whole grps of 15+ players with healers tanks etc pp camping resources in stealth.
Wow isn´t that beatiful pvp gameplay? No its not.

Sneak should require investment and not be virtually free (i´d make it permanently drain resources on anything not wearing 5p of medium armor at the very least). In my opinion light armor and heavy armor should not be able to be permanently invisible - period. I´d also let it drain resources for med users until at 50% stamina.
I´d make the dmg bonus require a 5p setbonus (if you wish that could be base dmg increase to be vaible on shielded players aswell).


A little added bonus: For NB cloak i´d do something along the lines of: 6 stored charges of 2.5s unbreakable 100% working invisibility and immunity to dmg over time, root and snare for the duration. A charge is restored every 15s. Any skilluse breaks cloak.

Lava_Croft

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.
Edit: The only thing that has changed is every potatoe has infinite resources now - which leads me to believe it´s mainly ppl complaining about it that used to make french fries (haha dk joke haha) out of those who had not figured out infinite resources back in the days.

Well they nerf'd/fixed most of the skills which contributed to infinite resources, If CP didn't exist and stealth wasn't so strong right now the game would be way more enjoyable.
Add in some real pvp objectives and rewards + pvp faction locking and server wide campaigns the game would be even better

The sad part is that the people playing now don't even know how good the game was because they didn't play back then (80%)

ZOS actually went in the opposite direction, changing what used to be an Alliance War into a free for all where factions have no real meaning and winning has no real rewards.

We can thank consoles for that

I don't think consoles have much to do with that, but more the fact that the landscape has changed when it comes to 'gamers' and ESO has cost too much money to develop and The Elder Scrolls is too big of a franchise to not try and make it appeal to as many people as possible. From ZOS' standpoint, they turned an expensive project that had a failed launch into something that has a future.

People who came to ESO for the much touted PvP are just feces out of luck. They were promised A and received B.

Derra

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.
Edit: The only thing that has changed is every potatoe has infinite resources now - which leads me to believe it´s mainly ppl complaining about it that used to make french fries (haha dk joke haha) out of those who had not figured out infinite resources back in the days.

Well they nerf'd/fixed most of the skills which contributed to infinite resources, If CP didn't exist and stealth wasn't so strong right now the game would be way more enjoyable.
Add in some real pvp objectives and rewards + pvp faction locking and server wide campaigns the game would be even better

The sad part is that the people playing now don't even know how good the game was because they didn't play back then (80%)

If CP didn´t exist we´d see every stam char in 5 vicious ophidian/balckrose 5 marksman + X and every mag char in two 5p out of: Amber/Seducer/Magnus/alteration/wormcult etc.
Ofc everyone would go back to running resource mundus and we´d see resource enchantments instead of dmg ones.

Imo it would just make the game more one dimensional in terms of what gear you can use. The problem would not be fixed because everyone wanting to would still have infinite resources.
You´d just "fix" buildvariety not infinite resources.

I agree the game should have either faction or campaignlock (for the duration). I´d also like valuable pvp rewards (hello goldtempers plox).

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ever since patch 1.3 this game offered infinite resources if built correctly. I have no idea why people have started mentioning it only since patch 1.6/7 this excessively. It was the case since the 5p setbonuses got introduced and hasn´t changed since.
Edit: The only thing that has changed is every potatoe has infinite resources now - which leads me to believe it´s mainly ppl complaining about it that used to make french fries (haha dk joke haha) out of those who had not figured out infinite resources back in the days.

Well they nerf'd/fixed most of the skills which contributed to infinite resources, If CP didn't exist and stealth wasn't so strong right now the game would be way more enjoyable.
Add in some real pvp objectives and rewards + pvp faction locking and server wide campaigns the game would be even better

The sad part is that the people playing now don't even know how good the game was because they didn't play back then (80%)

ZOS actually went in the opposite direction, changing what used to be an Alliance War into a free for all where factions have no real meaning and winning has no real rewards.

We can thank consoles for that

I don't think consoles have much to do with that, but more the fact that the landscape has changed when it comes to 'gamers' and ESO has cost too much money to develop and The Elder Scrolls is too big of a franchise to not try and make it appeal to as many people as possible. From ZOS' standpoint, they turned an expensive project that had a failed launch into something that has a future.

People who came to ESO for the much touted PvP are just feces out of luck. They were promised A and received B.

I think it´s also a problem of development shift. They stopped advertising and promoting their pvp about 12 to 16 months prior to release because they listened to feedback of other games raiding communities (those ppl were outraged that zos originally planned 4 man contented as the largest available pve content).
In the process they came up with craglorn and trials which in the end left them with unsatisfied raiders and unsatisfied pvpers because they stopped developing pvp content (IC hello hello) and were unable to create the pve content needed to keep raiders satified at a reasonable pace.

After this they took the broken shell of a game they had and are now in the process of transforming it into a supercasual solo/smallgrp pve crownstore cashgrab.

Atleast that´s how things went from my perspective.