Gankers and 1v1ers can't take "no" for an answer?

DaveMoeDee · February 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

Yes there is, doing what is fun for you. Some people don't care about about comparing egos. I know, it is a hard concept to grasp.

Yes but that doesn't answer my question which is why are you pvp'ing if you don't want to fight other players in a meaningful way. This BS is why pvp has been ruined by players who think that numbers should always win. If you don't want to actually compete, go pve. That's what it's there for.

He is there for his faction, not for mano a mano. If he wanted mano a mano, he would play Mortal Kombat.

Cathexis · February 2016

smacx250 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

Yes there is, doing what is fun for you. Some people don't care about about comparing egos. I know, it is a hard concept to grasp.

Yes but that doesn't answer my question which is why are you pvp'ing if you don't want to fight other players in a meaningful way. This BS is why pvp has been ruined by players who think that numbers should always win. If you don't want to actually compete, go pve. That's what it's there for.

Dude, do you really think any "meaningful" WAR was fought 1v1? Yeah, all those guys in WW1 just lined up and took each other on one at a time. If you can't get over the meaning of WAR, just wait for your pretty little arenas to arrive, and let the rest of us go on with WAR. And if your idea of WAR is picking off the baker going to deliver his bread - LOL!!!! Oh yeah, WAR!!!!

It's a video game where people use magical abilities to fight each other.

*watches his argument burst into flames*

Cody · February 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

1v1s/duels are not "where it actually counts" in a game oriented around group play.

and honestly, most 1v1s are to compare egos, not skills, you know this to be true. If I want to deal with trash talk and ego issues I will play a COD game, with everyone unmuted.

Actually that's false the game was for a long time oriented around skill. As a solo player, you used to have the capacity to wipe an entire raid with skill and discipline. This is almost impossible to do now. Hunting zergs was one of the most fun things to do for me until is was systematically shut down. It's why I hardly play anymore. Right now the best I can hope for is logging on to BWB with my.lvl 40 sorc and pick apart opponents until I get focus fired. Group play involves almost no skill at all.

you mis-interpreted what I meant. I never said that PvP did not involve skill;, I said that the PvP was oriented around group play, which it is. Like I said above, I dont give a damn how well one duels/1v1s if they cannot follow instructions by the group leaders and work well with their team, which happens often. You can be good at 1v1s and duels, I have no issue with that, but you will not be soloing keeps with your 1v1 skills. Group play and teamwork is what wins PvP, not two people fighting for 20 minutes way out in the middle of nowhere.

" i picked apart opponents on my level 40 sorc until I got focus fired, group play involves almost no skill at all" Sounds like your team got driven back at the very least, must not have been that easy:D unless of course you decided to rambo it.

"you used to be able to wipe an entire zerg with skill and discipline" Speak for yourself friend, as I rarely ever saw one person solo an entire zerg as you claim, and I have PvPed since the beta.

and again, why should i 1v1/duel someone who is acting like a d'bag? I have better things to do with my time than duel someone who will find some way to talk crap no matter the outcome.

Holy-Dope · February 2016

Me n a couple of my guild mates (usually 3-4 of same guys every time, every night and we are pretty much in sink), we always go to IC sewers for PVP cause lag in over-word areas is just too much too handle for us at the moment, And when we do go down the sewers, we'd 1st scout all the districts, mostly Temple/ Arena or Arboretum to see if we can find some action or else we go to the yellow or red base. Now our intention is not to gank, but when we see 1-3 people probably farming, we'd take them down and hope that they spam in their zone-chats about gankers at the base, so that more than 10+ people will come out to wipe us, and tha's what we exactly want. to go against that 10+ nos and try to come out victorious. Many time we wipe and many times we take out a full zerg of 20+ with just 3-4 of us, but that's how we play it.

Last night only there was a yellow zergball running in Spell-Sewers and ofc everytime i jumped, i got my ass handed back to me, and then later me and 2 more of my buddies, we did go to the yellow base and found the same zerg only to Hand over their ass back to them.

Point is, that every person in the sewer is not for ganking. Now we rage about Zergballs, Gnkers, And then LAG of all of them, what else is left to do PVP then? Dualing is good, but you can't do it all the time.

As far as ganking is concerned, it's a cheesy way of play-style and is a part of the game and as well lore. So there is no point complaining about that. Now for the gankers out there, it is to be understood that not all the times their gank will go successful, eventually they will meet their match who in return will take them down, but then instead of rage messaging, try to understand what went wrong and work on your skills.

Every-time i get ganked (and some times with more than 2k stones cz i'm too lazy to run to bank all the time) of-course i get furious, but then I'd logon with my ganker and kill 10 of the color that killed me and then back to farming....

Jade1986 · February 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

Yes there is, doing what is fun for you. Some people don't care about about comparing egos. I know, it is a hard concept to grasp.

Yes but that doesn't answer my question which is why are you pvp'ing if you don't want to fight other players in a meaningful way. This BS is why pvp has been ruined by players who think that numbers should always win. If you don't want to actually compete, go pve. That's what it's there for.

The whole attraction of PVP in this game was large scale warfare, that is what was advertisted , that is what most people wanted. If YOU want 1 v 1s that is fine, but not everyone, in fact the majority, do not want that. I can see the exact same thing happening in this game that happened in WoW and SWTOR, focus moving from what was advertised to small scale 4 v 4s, people will tire of being ignored, and the pvp population will all but collapse in on itself. The whole REASON most people played pvp in this game was for the large scale warfare, not for some aged gametype from 1995.

xXNesTXx · February 2016

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

LOL one of those rage kids hahahaha

In this game the 1v1 battles, not are supported by any game mode, but the way to prove your skill is in 1v1?? no sense.....

Let me guess.....a Sorc with daedric mines, force shock, crystal fragments, hardened ward, lightning form and healing ward? or a "one hundred shields DK" wrecking blow spammer?

normally only this players send this 1v1 rage messages....

Cody · February 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

Yes there is, doing what is fun for you. Some people don't care about about comparing egos. I know, it is a hard concept to grasp.

Yes but that doesn't answer my question which is why are you pvp'ing if you don't want to fight other players in a meaningful way. This BS is why pvp has been ruined by players who think that numbers should always win. If you don't want to actually compete, go pve. That's what it's there for.

for many the group play is what is meaningful to them. You cannot seem to grasp that there are players that have fun in different ways than you; I say this factually, not judgmentally. Not everyone finds dueling/1v1s fun., I have done a few, and I found them boring. Thats just the way it is, some people find them boring. they are only fun for me if it is a sudden out of nowhere battle in the chaos of keep warfare, the controled environment duels do not satisfy me.

"this BS is why PvP has been ruined by people who think numbers should always win"
not a soul on this thread has uttered anything close to this phrase. I and perhaps a few others have said that the PvPis oriented around group play, which it is. This is a fact; one you cannot deny. This does not mean numbers will always win. I have witnessed people 3 times the number of the group I was in get decimated by my group because my group used strategy and cunning while the enemy did nothing but spam AOEs and try to zerg down everything. In fact a few days ago I and others drove back a group numbering more than us by me using 2 oils and my allies charging with the oils; that enemy group was slaughtered, they had no idea what was going on because they all were FOTM speccers who expected their powerful builds to carry them, they were pushed back, and by the time they recovered, more EP had come to wipe them. Numbers does not always guarantee victory.

"If you don't want to actually compete, go pve, that"s what its there for" dueling Sypher or some other player near the top side of the map instead of helping your alliance take back their home keeps is NOT helping your faction in any way, shape, or form. At that point you are competing in PvP as a whole just as much as questers are: which is none. I have no problem with dueling or questing, but do not sit there and accuse group players of not competing just because they play in groups while dueling someone out in the middle of nowhere and providing no assistance at all to your faction.

Cody · February 2016

EsoRecon wrote: »

AlphaNicole wrote: »

This has happened too many times. Me and my friends do cyrodiil town quests in various campaigns. Of course we come across gankers, but the gankers get wiped by us. The dead gankers then message me 9/10 times (probably because my gt is easy to spell) to 1v1, I politely refuse, then they raise hell in my inbox, getting salty saying "lol trash", "I can kill all of you in a 1v1" yea no one cares.

We just want to get these quests done, and will kill anything that gets in our way. I've had to block many people from messaging me, which is my personal solution to this. But seriously, why can't y'all take no for an answer?

I am exactly like the 1v1er. Except I don't message the zerglings unless they T-Bag me. Then its on, you crossed the line. I will then blow up their inbox till I get a response. And usually the zerglings call me a *** when I ask for a 1v1.... So it goes both ways you zerglings L2P then you can T-bag.

why do you care so much about other people teabagging you? It means nothing in this game.

and was that group really a "zerg" or was it 8 people you decided to try and solo because reasons?

Cathexis · February 2016

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

1v1s/duels are not "where it actually counts" in a game oriented around group play.

and honestly, most 1v1s are to compare egos, not skills, you know this to be true. If I want to deal with trash talk and ego issues I will play a COD game, with everyone unmuted.

Actually that's false the game was for a long time oriented around skill. As a solo player, you used to have the capacity to wipe an entire raid with skill and discipline. This is almost impossible to do now. Hunting zergs was one of the most fun things to do for me until is was systematically shut down. It's why I hardly play anymore. Right now the best I can hope for is logging on to BWB with my.lvl 40 sorc and pick apart opponents until I get focus fired. Group play involves almost no skill at all.

you mis-interpreted what I meant. I never said that PvP did not involve skill;, I said that the PvP was oriented around group play, which it is. Like I said above, I dont give a damn how well one duels/1v1s if they cannot follow instructions by the group leaders and work well with their team, which happens often. You can be good at 1v1s and duels, I have no issue with that, but you will not be soloing keeps with your 1v1 skills. Group play and teamwork is what wins PvP, not two people fighting for 20 minutes way out in the middle of nowhere.

" i picked apart opponents on my level 40 sorc until I got focus fired, group play involves almost no skill at all" Sounds like your team got driven back at the very least, must not have been that easy:D unless of course you decided to rambo it.

"you used to be able to wipe an entire zerg with skill and discipline" Speak for yourself friend, as I rarely ever saw one person solo an entire zerg as you claim, and I have PvPed since the beta.

and again, why should i 1v1/duel someone who is acting like a d'bag? I have better things to do with my time than duel someone who will find some way to talk crap no matter the outcome.

I have seen it done a few times. Let me be more precise in my words though and say engaging in situations that are outnumbered in 1vX or ungrouped. I have, in the past, taken on small and large groups, solo or at least ungrouped, and systematically collapsed the structural integrity of the raid. It used to be very easy to show up at a seige line, be the only one there, and engage and take down half the seige line before reinforcements arrive by out maneuvering your opponents. You can't do that anymore - you HAVE to play in numbers, largely because mobility is no longer a tactically strong enough. I am being FORCED to rely on others, because nonsense mechanics forbid the use of my physical capacity to play the game well.

I typically don't play on a team. I play for the thrill of the fight. Last time I logged in to BWB I went out to nickel on my own while it was getting smashed by a huge raid and took out 10-15 people ungrouped (sometimes with circumstantial pug support but certainly not coordinated) before the zerg turned on me. Unfortunately, because having a zerg turn on you now means instant death, challenging and thrilling fights like that are rare.

I play for the opportunity to improve my instinct, tactical decision making, and combat prowess by engaging in ways that actually challenge my ability. Playing on a team doesn't do that for me. After about 20 minutes, "stack on crown, AoE, focus that target, seige plop, line of sight, retreat, charge, lather rinse repeat" becomes routine because it only works a tiny subset of skills and strategy. It doesn't exercise your ability to evaluate the situation or use your personal judgement at all because their are no consequences in the security of a rapids/purge/heal storm. Yes, you can practice other strategies and formations but when numbers always win anyway, that doesn't really mean anything; it doesn't indicate you have a capacity it just says "I can kill my opponents because I have all the cards in my favor." There is zero risk involved.

I dont disagree fundamentally though about not doing 1v1 if you don't want to, and not fighting ***. But I am making a clear distinction that hiding in the safety of numbers doesn't exactly make you more skilled or a better player than your opponent (even if they are being a ***). Just to be clear, you may not be saying it doesn't involve skill, but what I am saying is that if you are going to fixate on the idea that pvp should be a solely group activity, then you may as well be.

Cody · February 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

1v1s/duels are not "where it actually counts" in a game oriented around group play.

and honestly, most 1v1s are to compare egos, not skills, you know this to be true. If I want to deal with trash talk and ego issues I will play a COD game, with everyone unmuted.

Actually that's false the game was for a long time oriented around skill. As a solo player, you used to have the capacity to wipe an entire raid with skill and discipline. This is almost impossible to do now. Hunting zergs was one of the most fun things to do for me until is was systematically shut down. It's why I hardly play anymore. Right now the best I can hope for is logging on to BWB with my.lvl 40 sorc and pick apart opponents until I get focus fired. Group play involves almost no skill at all.

you mis-interpreted what I meant. I never said that PvP did not involve skill;, I said that the PvP was oriented around group play, which it is. Like I said above, I dont give a damn how well one duels/1v1s if they cannot follow instructions by the group leaders and work well with their team, which happens often. You can be good at 1v1s and duels, I have no issue with that, but you will not be soloing keeps with your 1v1 skills. Group play and teamwork is what wins PvP, not two people fighting for 20 minutes way out in the middle of nowhere.

" i picked apart opponents on my level 40 sorc until I got focus fired, group play involves almost no skill at all" Sounds like your team got driven back at the very least, must not have been that easy:D unless of course you decided to rambo it.

"you used to be able to wipe an entire zerg with skill and discipline" Speak for yourself friend, as I rarely ever saw one person solo an entire zerg as you claim, and I have PvPed since the beta.

and again, why should i 1v1/duel someone who is acting like a d'bag? I have better things to do with my time than duel someone who will find some way to talk crap no matter the outcome.

I have seen it done a few times. Let me be more precise in my words though and say engaging in situations that are outnumbered in 1vX or ungrouped. I have, in the past, taken on small and large groups, solo or at least ungrouped, and systematically collapsed the structural integrity of the raid. It used to be very easy to show up at a seige line, be the only one there, and engage and take down half the seige line before reinforcements arrive by out maneuvering your opponents. You can't do that anymore - you HAVE to play in numbers, largely because mobility is no longer a tactically strong enough. I am being FORCED to rely on others, because nonsense mechanics forbid the use of my physical capacity to play the game well.

I typically don't play on a team. I play for the thrill of the fight. Last time I logged in to BWB I went out to nickel on my own while it was getting smashed by a huge raid and took out 10-15 people ungrouped (sometimes with circumstantial pug support but certainly not coordinated) before the zerg turned on me. Unfortunately, because having a zerg turn on you now means instant death, challenging and thrilling fights like that are rare.

I play for the opportunity to improve my instinct, tactical decision making, and combat prowess by engaging in ways that actually challenge my ability. Playing on a team doesn't do that for me. After about 20 minutes, "stack on crown, AoE, focus that target, seige plop, line of sight, retreat, charge, lather rinse repeat" becomes routine because it only works a tiny subset of skills and strategy. It doesn't exercise your ability to evaluate the situation or use your personal judgement at all because their are no consequences in the security of a rapids/purge/heal storm. Yes, you can practice other strategies and formations but when numbers always win anyway, that doesn't really mean anything; it doesn't indicate you have a capacity it just says "I can kill my opponents because I have all the cards in my favor." There is zero risk involved.

I dont disagree fundamentally though about not doing 1v1 if you don't want to, and not fighting ***. But I am making a clear distinction that hiding in the safety of numbers doesn't exactly make you more skilled or a better player than your opponent (even if they are being a ***). Just to be clear, you may not be saying it doesn't involve skill, but what I am saying is that if you are going to fixate on the idea that pvp should be a solely group activity, then you may as well be.

"i took out 10-15 people, sometimes with circumstantial pug support" then you did not take out 10-15 people, you and others took out 10-15 people.

I could make the same "no skill involved" arguments about 1v1s. The current meta is high regen/high damage, either giving one ridiculous 2-3 shot capability or ridiculous resource sustain. Duels either consist of one or both players never running out of resources, and the fight lasting until someone conveniently forgets to cast something important like a heal or shield stack, or one or both players has ridiculously high weapon damage, and will literally 3 shot the enemy in open combat, how is either of those situations more skillful than "hiding in numbers"? I cant even take vet PvP seriously anymore because of that nonsense, and in 1v1s its completely ridiculous. Also, "stack on crown" is not all that there is to group play and you know that, you have played just as long as I have.

i dont even take PvX videos seriously. They are usually pro level players running FOTM specs against people new to the game. I know this because their tactics and builds would be beaten, sometimes easily, if their opponents were even halfway experienced. they were especially popular in 1.5 when mana DKs were the thing, and most of those showcased builds could be beaten by someone using fear. That is literally all it took for many of those builds back then; and now in fact. With stam regain now eliminated during block, PvXing 20 people like in the olden days is almost impossible if even one of those twenty players has any kind of sense about them, and that is how it should be in my opinion. One person should not be able to take on 10-20+ people, no matter how good they are. This is not a COD game, this is ESO. Teamwork should be what determines victory, not someone exploiting inexperienced players and trying to earn their 5 minutes of fame. If you disagree with that, that's fine, to each their own.

"numbers always win" numbers do not always win. This is false and I am tired of people, especially veterans like you, constantly preaching it to the choir like it is divine will. this is ESPECIALLY false in BwB, which you must enjoy playing in based on your previous comments. I have seen giant groups of players get beaten by other groups 2/3 or even half their number. Proper use of counter siege, oils, and caltrops, make it very possible to defeat a group of higher number. You must mean in open combat on the fields and grasslands; in which case, yes, the larger group will indeed win most of the time. That is why you have stealthed groups waiting to hit the keep or outpost up ahead while that huge zerg is hitting whatever keep or outpost they want to hit.. Group play is not all about zerg v zerg, there is plenty of skill and strategy involved in that part of it, you just have to be willing to see it.

But it is clear you prefer soloing/dueling to group play, which is fine, I have no issue with that. so I will shut up and stop wasting your time. Have a good day

LuminaLilly · February 2016

xXNesTXx wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

LOL one of those rage kids hahahaha

In this game the 1v1 battles, not are supported by any game mode, but the way to prove your skill is in 1v1?? no sense.....

Let me guess.....a Sorc with daedric mines, force shock, crystal fragments, hardened ward, lightning form and healing ward? or a "one hundred shields DK" wrecking blow spammer?

normally only this players send this 1v1 rage messages....

Or an animation cancelling exploiter.

Jade1986 · February 2016

AlphaNicole wrote: »

xXNesTXx wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

LOL one of those rage kids hahahaha

In this game the 1v1 battles, not are supported by any game mode, but the way to prove your skill is in 1v1?? no sense.....

Let me guess.....a Sorc with daedric mines, force shock, crystal fragments, hardened ward, lightning form and healing ward? or a "one hundred shields DK" wrecking blow spammer?

normally only this players send this 1v1 rage messages....

Or an animation cancelling exploiter.

I am going to bathe in the oceans of tears when the update comes when the animation canceling has been neutered.

revonine · February 2016

laced wrote: »

AlphaNicole wrote: »

xXNesTXx wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

LOL one of those rage kids hahahaha

In this game the 1v1 battles, not are supported by any game mode, but the way to prove your skill is in 1v1?? no sense.....

Let me guess.....a Sorc with daedric mines, force shock, crystal fragments, hardened ward, lightning form and healing ward? or a "one hundred shields DK" wrecking blow spammer?

normally only this players send this 1v1 rage messages....

Or an animation cancelling exploiter.

I am going to bathe in the oceans of tears when the update comes when the animation canceling has been neutered.

I thought they scrapped that updated animations thing for the Thieves Guild update?

Jade1986 · February 2016

revonine wrote: »

laced wrote: »

AlphaNicole wrote: »

xXNesTXx wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

LOL one of those rage kids hahahaha

In this game the 1v1 battles, not are supported by any game mode, but the way to prove your skill is in 1v1?? no sense.....

Let me guess.....a Sorc with daedric mines, force shock, crystal fragments, hardened ward, lightning form and healing ward? or a "one hundred shields DK" wrecking blow spammer?

normally only this players send this 1v1 rage messages....

Or an animation cancelling exploiter.

I am going to bathe in the oceans of tears when the update comes when the animation canceling has been neutered.

I thought they scrapped that updated animations thing for the Thieves Guild update?

Not to my knowledge and it was not in any pts notes I saw. I hope not, because it gives a huge advantage to classe that use insta casts.

caeliusstarbreaker · February 2016

You should totally duel them... But feel free to use every exploit in the game.. T-bag them and continue your daily routine.

exeeter702 · February 2016

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

1v1s/duels are not "where it actually counts" in a game oriented around group play.

and honestly, most 1v1s are to compare egos, not skills, you know this to be true. If I want to deal with trash talk and ego issues I will play a COD game, with everyone unmuted.

Actually that's false the game was for a long time oriented around skill. As a solo player, you used to have the capacity to wipe an entire raid with skill and discipline. This is almost impossible to do now. Hunting zergs was one of the most fun things to do for me until is was systematically shut down. It's why I hardly play anymore. Right now the best I can hope for is logging on to BWB with my.lvl 40 sorc and pick apart opponents until I get focus fired. Group play involves almost no skill at all.

you mis-interpreted what I meant. I never said that PvP did not involve skill;, I said that the PvP was oriented around group play, which it is. Like I said above, I dont give a damn how well one duels/1v1s if they cannot follow instructions by the group leaders and work well with their team, which happens often. You can be good at 1v1s and duels, I have no issue with that, but you will not be soloing keeps with your 1v1 skills. Group play and teamwork is what wins PvP, not two people fighting for 20 minutes way out in the middle of nowhere.

" i picked apart opponents on my level 40 sorc until I got focus fired, group play involves almost no skill at all" Sounds like your team got driven back at the very least, must not have been that easy:D unless of course you decided to rambo it.

"you used to be able to wipe an entire zerg with skill and discipline" Speak for yourself friend, as I rarely ever saw one person solo an entire zerg as you claim, and I have PvPed since the beta.

and again, why should i 1v1/duel someone who is acting like a d'bag? I have better things to do with my time than duel someone who will find some way to talk crap no matter the outcome.

I have seen it done a few times. Let me be more precise in my words though and say engaging in situations that are outnumbered in 1vX or ungrouped. I have, in the past, taken on small and large groups, solo or at least ungrouped, and systematically collapsed the structural integrity of the raid. It used to be very easy to show up at a seige line, be the only one there, and engage and take down half the seige line before reinforcements arrive by out maneuvering your opponents. You can't do that anymore - you HAVE to play in numbers, largely because mobility is no longer a tactically strong enough. I am being FORCED to rely on others, because nonsense mechanics forbid the use of my physical capacity to play the game well.

I typically don't play on a team. I play for the thrill of the fight. Last time I logged in to BWB I went out to nickel on my own while it was getting smashed by a huge raid and took out 10-15 people ungrouped (sometimes with circumstantial pug support but certainly not coordinated) before the zerg turned on me. Unfortunately, because having a zerg turn on you now means instant death, challenging and thrilling fights like that are rare.

I play for the opportunity to improve my instinct, tactical decision making, and combat prowess by engaging in ways that actually challenge my ability. Playing on a team doesn't do that for me. After about 20 minutes, "stack on crown, AoE, focus that target, seige plop, line of sight, retreat, charge, lather rinse repeat" becomes routine because it only works a tiny subset of skills and strategy. It doesn't exercise your ability to evaluate the situation or use your personal judgement at all because their are no consequences in the security of a rapids/purge/heal storm. Yes, you can practice other strategies and formations but when numbers always win anyway, that doesn't really mean anything; it doesn't indicate you have a capacity it just says "I can kill my opponents because I have all the cards in my favor." There is zero risk involved.

I dont disagree fundamentally though about not doing 1v1 if you don't want to, and not fighting ***. But I am making a clear distinction that hiding in the safety of numbers doesn't exactly make you more skilled or a better player than your opponent (even if they are being a ***). Just to be clear, you may not be saying it doesn't involve skill, but what I am saying is that if you are going to fixate on the idea that pvp should be a solely group activity, then you may as well be.

"i took out 10-15 people, sometimes with circumstantial pug support" then you did not take out 10-15 people, you and others took out 10-15 people.

I could make the same "no skill involved" arguments about 1v1s. The current meta is high regen/high damage, either giving one ridiculous 2-3 shot capability or ridiculous resource sustain. Duels either consist of one or both players never running out of resources, and the fight lasting until someone conveniently forgets to cast something important like a heal or shield stack, or one or both players has ridiculously high weapon damage, and will literally 3 shot the enemy in open combat, how is either of those situations more skillful than "hiding in numbers"? I cant even take vet PvP seriously anymore because of that nonsense, and in 1v1s its completely ridiculous. Also, "stack on crown" is not all that there is to group play and you know that, you have played just as long as I have.

i dont even take PvX videos seriously. They are usually pro level players running FOTM specs against people new to the game. I know this because their tactics and builds would be beaten, sometimes easily, if their opponents were even halfway experienced. they were especially popular in 1.5 when mana DKs were the thing, and most of those showcased builds could be beaten by someone using fear. That is literally all it took for many of those builds back then; and now in fact. With stam regain now eliminated during block, PvXing 20 people like in the olden days is almost impossible if even one of those twenty players has any kind of sense about them, and that is how it should be in my opinion. One person should not be able to take on 10-20+ people, no matter how good they are. This is not a COD game, this is ESO. Teamwork should be what determines victory, not someone exploiting inexperienced players and trying to earn their 5 minutes of fame. If you disagree with that, that's fine, to each their own.

"numbers always win" numbers do not always win. This is false and I am tired of people, especially veterans like you, constantly preaching it to the choir like it is divine will. this is ESPECIALLY false in BwB, which you must enjoy playing in based on your previous comments. I have seen giant groups of players get beaten by other groups 2/3 or even half their number. Proper use of counter siege, oils, and caltrops, make it very possible to defeat a group of higher number. You must mean in open combat on the fields and grasslands; in which case, yes, the larger group will indeed win most of the time. That is why you have stealthed groups waiting to hit the keep or outpost up ahead while that huge zerg is hitting whatever keep or outpost they want to hit.. Group play is not all about zerg v zerg, there is plenty of skill and strategy involved in that part of it, you just have to be willing to see it.

But it is clear you prefer soloing/dueling to group play, which is fine, I have no issue with that. so I will shut up and stop wasting your time. Have a good day

Sorry but I'm with Cathexis on this one.

It's nice that you are able to paint such a perfect scenario that plays out I open world pvp where coordination matters but ultimately it matters little.

Most people I'd wager that love actually pvp where you are given the opportunity to outplay your opponent/s on an intimate level.

Like it or not the majority of Cyrodiil is an alliance point piñata, yes there are variables and moments thst you described, but even in that situation the players involved would require very little technique outside of "following directions".

When an altercation does arrive in your scenario, it quickly dwindles into a headcount game where individual performance begins to have diminishing returns the larger the pool of players on both sides becomes. If there is no altercation at all and you "strategically take / retake an outpost under the opposing factions nose, then gratz on avoiding an encounter with other players?

It's far to easy to claim "I'm helping!" When you are slinging heavy destro attacks into a large glob of players and seeing the AP trickle in. You claim smaller scale pvp is less impressive due to players taking advantage of the meta? Top players beating new players? That is going to happen regardless... it's like you are saying you'd rather have pvp systems in place like large scale cyrodil nonsense so that class imbalance (1v1 will never be balanced mind you) and skilled individuals are lost in the fog of zerg garbage gameplay.

Let's say you have a group of 6 and you attempt at sneaking around to ninja cap an outpost and an opposing faction meets you there and it becomes a small skirmish where eventually it's 2v5 and the 2 players are exceptional and beat the 5 average players, that is a great feeling as it demonstrates more then other contributing factors, that those 2 players have outclassed the opposition. That is what alot if not most dare I say pvp players long for, moments like that and they would gladly trade all the nonsense cyrodil shenanigans to facilitate that gameplay.

DHale · February 2016

I have been ganked before many times in quest towns. I don't mind... part of the game. I did meet a blue did several quest side by side with him, after about four quests I come there to turn in and he and three others kill me out of stealth. I did whisper him I came right back killed all four. Then I trolled him until he put me on ignore. That said now I do all my quest with overload plus 42k magic plus 3700 spell damage buffed ready. Gankers really only last 2 shots at the most. The whispers are plenty though!

Cody · March 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

1v1s/duels are not "where it actually counts" in a game oriented around group play.

and honestly, most 1v1s are to compare egos, not skills, you know this to be true. If I want to deal with trash talk and ego issues I will play a COD game, with everyone unmuted.

Actually that's false the game was for a long time oriented around skill. As a solo player, you used to have the capacity to wipe an entire raid with skill and discipline. This is almost impossible to do now. Hunting zergs was one of the most fun things to do for me until is was systematically shut down. It's why I hardly play anymore. Right now the best I can hope for is logging on to BWB with my.lvl 40 sorc and pick apart opponents until I get focus fired. Group play involves almost no skill at all.

you mis-interpreted what I meant. I never said that PvP did not involve skill;, I said that the PvP was oriented around group play, which it is. Like I said above, I dont give a damn how well one duels/1v1s if they cannot follow instructions by the group leaders and work well with their team, which happens often. You can be good at 1v1s and duels, I have no issue with that, but you will not be soloing keeps with your 1v1 skills. Group play and teamwork is what wins PvP, not two people fighting for 20 minutes way out in the middle of nowhere.

" i picked apart opponents on my level 40 sorc until I got focus fired, group play involves almost no skill at all" Sounds like your team got driven back at the very least, must not have been that easy:D unless of course you decided to rambo it.

"you used to be able to wipe an entire zerg with skill and discipline" Speak for yourself friend, as I rarely ever saw one person solo an entire zerg as you claim, and I have PvPed since the beta.

and again, why should i 1v1/duel someone who is acting like a d'bag? I have better things to do with my time than duel someone who will find some way to talk crap no matter the outcome.

I have seen it done a few times. Let me be more precise in my words though and say engaging in situations that are outnumbered in 1vX or ungrouped. I have, in the past, taken on small and large groups, solo or at least ungrouped, and systematically collapsed the structural integrity of the raid. It used to be very easy to show up at a seige line, be the only one there, and engage and take down half the seige line before reinforcements arrive by out maneuvering your opponents. You can't do that anymore - you HAVE to play in numbers, largely because mobility is no longer a tactically strong enough. I am being FORCED to rely on others, because nonsense mechanics forbid the use of my physical capacity to play the game well.

I typically don't play on a team. I play for the thrill of the fight. Last time I logged in to BWB I went out to nickel on my own while it was getting smashed by a huge raid and took out 10-15 people ungrouped (sometimes with circumstantial pug support but certainly not coordinated) before the zerg turned on me. Unfortunately, because having a zerg turn on you now means instant death, challenging and thrilling fights like that are rare.

I play for the opportunity to improve my instinct, tactical decision making, and combat prowess by engaging in ways that actually challenge my ability. Playing on a team doesn't do that for me. After about 20 minutes, "stack on crown, AoE, focus that target, seige plop, line of sight, retreat, charge, lather rinse repeat" becomes routine because it only works a tiny subset of skills and strategy. It doesn't exercise your ability to evaluate the situation or use your personal judgement at all because their are no consequences in the security of a rapids/purge/heal storm. Yes, you can practice other strategies and formations but when numbers always win anyway, that doesn't really mean anything; it doesn't indicate you have a capacity it just says "I can kill my opponents because I have all the cards in my favor." There is zero risk involved.

I dont disagree fundamentally though about not doing 1v1 if you don't want to, and not fighting ***. But I am making a clear distinction that hiding in the safety of numbers doesn't exactly make you more skilled or a better player than your opponent (even if they are being a ***). Just to be clear, you may not be saying it doesn't involve skill, but what I am saying is that if you are going to fixate on the idea that pvp should be a solely group activity, then you may as well be.

"i took out 10-15 people, sometimes with circumstantial pug support" then you did not take out 10-15 people, you and others took out 10-15 people.

I could make the same "no skill involved" arguments about 1v1s. The current meta is high regen/high damage, either giving one ridiculous 2-3 shot capability or ridiculous resource sustain. Duels either consist of one or both players never running out of resources, and the fight lasting until someone conveniently forgets to cast something important like a heal or shield stack, or one or both players has ridiculously high weapon damage, and will literally 3 shot the enemy in open combat, how is either of those situations more skillful than "hiding in numbers"? I cant even take vet PvP seriously anymore because of that nonsense, and in 1v1s its completely ridiculous. Also, "stack on crown" is not all that there is to group play and you know that, you have played just as long as I have.

i dont even take PvX videos seriously. They are usually pro level players running FOTM specs against people new to the game. I know this because their tactics and builds would be beaten, sometimes easily, if their opponents were even halfway experienced. they were especially popular in 1.5 when mana DKs were the thing, and most of those showcased builds could be beaten by someone using fear. That is literally all it took for many of those builds back then; and now in fact. With stam regain now eliminated during block, PvXing 20 people like in the olden days is almost impossible if even one of those twenty players has any kind of sense about them, and that is how it should be in my opinion. One person should not be able to take on 10-20+ people, no matter how good they are. This is not a COD game, this is ESO. Teamwork should be what determines victory, not someone exploiting inexperienced players and trying to earn their 5 minutes of fame. If you disagree with that, that's fine, to each their own.

"numbers always win" numbers do not always win. This is false and I am tired of people, especially veterans like you, constantly preaching it to the choir like it is divine will. this is ESPECIALLY false in BwB, which you must enjoy playing in based on your previous comments. I have seen giant groups of players get beaten by other groups 2/3 or even half their number. Proper use of counter siege, oils, and caltrops, make it very possible to defeat a group of higher number. You must mean in open combat on the fields and grasslands; in which case, yes, the larger group will indeed win most of the time. That is why you have stealthed groups waiting to hit the keep or outpost up ahead while that huge zerg is hitting whatever keep or outpost they want to hit.. Group play is not all about zerg v zerg, there is plenty of skill and strategy involved in that part of it, you just have to be willing to see it.

But it is clear you prefer soloing/dueling to group play, which is fine, I have no issue with that. so I will shut up and stop wasting your time. Have a good day

Sorry but I'm with Cathexis on this one.

It's nice that you are able to paint such a perfect scenario that plays out I open world pvp where coordination matters but ultimately it matters little.

Most people I'd wager that love actually pvp where you are given the opportunity to outplay your opponent/s on an intimate level.

Like it or not the majority of Cyrodiil is an alliance point piñata, yes there are variables and moments thst you described, but even in that situation the players involved would require very little technique outside of "following directions".

When an altercation does arrive in your scenario, it quickly dwindles into a headcount game where individual performance begins to have diminishing returns the larger the pool of players on both sides becomes. If there is no altercation at all and you "strategically take / retake an outpost under the opposing factions nose, then gratz on avoiding an encounter with other players?

It's far to easy to claim "I'm helping!" When you are slinging heavy destro attacks into a large glob of players and seeing the AP trickle in. You claim smaller scale pvp is less impressive due to players taking advantage of the meta? Top players beating new players? That is going to happen regardless... it's like you are saying you'd rather have pvp systems in place like large scale cyrodil nonsense so that class imbalance (1v1 will never be balanced mind you) and skilled individuals are lost in the fog of zerg garbage gameplay.

Let's say you have a group of 6 and you attempt at sneaking around to ninja cap an outpost and an opposing faction meets you there and it becomes a small skirmish where eventually it's 2v5 and the 2 players are exceptional and beat the 5 average players, that is a great feeling as it demonstrates more then other contributing factors, that those 2 players have outclassed the opposition. That is what alot if not most dare I say pvp players long for, moments like that and they would gladly trade all the nonsense cyrodil shenanigans to facilitate that gameplay.

2 people beating 5 is not the same as asking for 12 to beat 24, or 18 to beat 36, or 20 to beat 50 like Cathexis and many others want. you know that, so please do not scale down the comparison to prove your point; as I will not buy it.

"its far to easy to claim "im helping" when using heavy attacks into a crowd of enemies " and its ridiculous to call group based players non-competitive while dueling Sypher in the woods in the middle of nowhere, which is of no help to your faction in any way at all. again, your 1v1 skills do not matter at all in the group based keep warfare that is a majority of PvP. I have no problem with dueling or people who prefer to duel or engage in small group based combat. I myself like small group based combat as well, but i do not mock other people for prefering to play in the larger group playstyle over the false belief that my way of having fun is somehow superior to someone else's

"experienced players beat inexperienced ones all the time" you mis-intepreted my point, that was about PvX videos and how I thought they really were not as impressive as many make them out to be. I was not complaining about the fact that someone like Sypher could beat an inexperienced player, I was complaining about the fact that he could beat 20+ of them. I am sorry, but I hated that and still do. If I want to solo the entire enemy team and not have to use teamwork, I will, again, play a COD game. This game is supposed to be about teamwork, not one player soloing an entire group. If you disagree, fine; to each their own.

"most players would love to outplay someone in a 1v1" I never said most did not. I too enjoy doing so, in fact I did so twice last night, once against a 2H WB stam build (the poor milk drinker could only get off one hit on me) and another time against a mana DK. they were incredibly fun, even me, someone who these days prefers to group up (I stopped PvPing with my ganker stamblade long ago) is able to find small fights every now and then. My point, is that it makes no sense to do what Cathexis and many others do, and call group based players "bad" or "noncompetitive" in a PvP mode that is based on group play. You dueling in the woods, as mean as it sounds, accomplishes nothing for your faction in this group play oriented PvP. Your 1v1 skills will not fully transfer into a group battle, especially the large 20 player+ groups that are common in PvP.

There is opportunity for small group based combat in the overall meta, spec ops groups is one example. I found plenty of action against similar group sizes back when I ran those on my stamblade. If you do not want to run in the huge zergs fine, form a gank or spec ops group and go attackon the sides/from behind. you will find your small group battles, trust me. No need to be a d'bag to group preferring players just because they have fun in a way different than yours.

"but it causes lag!" it does, but that is the fault of ZOS, not zergs.

arenas will be coming out at some point, so everyone that hates grouping up in large groups will be able to go do what they love.

*disclaimer*: all the player names usedhere were used as examples, in no way am i trying to name and shame. Please do not ban me or take down this post for it, as that us not my intention.

Astanphaeus · March 2016

Cody wrote: »

I could make the same "no skill involved" arguments about 1v1s. The current meta is high regen/high damage, either giving one ridiculous 2-3 shot capability or ridiculous resource sustain. Duels either consist of one or both players never running out of resources, and the fight lasting until someone conveniently forgets to cast something important like a heal or shield stack, or one or both players has ridiculously high weapon damage, and will literally 3 shot the enemy in open combat, how is either of those situations more skillful than "hiding in numbers"? I cant even take vet PvP seriously anymore because of that nonsense, and in 1v1s its completely ridiculous. Also, "stack on crown" is not all that there is to group play and you know that, you have played just as long as I have.

I'm just quoting this because it isn't said as nearly often as it should be.

Also, the number of people who complain about large groups but can't seem to do anything other than zerg surf is too **** high.

strikeback1247 · March 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

laced wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

If you don't accept 1v1 challenges you are a coward and are missing out on improving your pvp skills

Or you have better things in your life to do than compare e-peen.

False, there is nothing more important than comparing your epeen to others. Why are you even playing pvp if you aren't going to throw down where it actually counts?

I agree, 1v1s are a good way to get better. Personally I think they are super fun.

Problem is a huge % of players in Cyrodiil don't want to get better. Or even Pvp for that matter. For example, the OP.

So let me get this straight. Controlled 1v1's are the ONLY way to PvP and get better? So random fights in the open world are not PvP? The AvAvA concept that Cyrodill was based around is not PvP? So essentially, Cyrodill is not PvP?

I want to congratulate you on a new level of stupidity.

Chelos · March 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

Or an animation cancelling exploiter.

No matter how much you want to repeat it, animation cancelling is NOT an exploit.
You might not like it, that's perfectly ok, but don't claim something that is not true!

It was an unexpected effect in ESO's combat mechanics but has been accepted as a part of it by ZOS. They are even cleainig up the graphic issues that come with animation cancelling.
They wouldn't do it if it were an exploit.

ZOS has say on what is an exploit and what is not, you don't

xboxone1Q · March 2016

I can't 1v1 cause I main a templar i get picked all the time from the other classes to 1v1 me cause they are a NB, or a shield stacker so they no their good. : /

Jade1986 · March 2016

Chelos wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Or an animation cancelling exploiter.

No matter how much you want to repeat it, animation cancelling is NOT an exploit.
You might not like it, that's perfectly ok, but don't claim something that is not true!

It was an unexpected effect in ESO's combat mechanics but has been accepted as a part of it by ZOS. They are even cleainig up the graphic issues that come with animation cancelling.
They wouldn't do it if it were an exploit.

ZOS has say on what is an exploit and what is not, you don't

Actually they said it was an unintended mechanic, they never officially said it was ok or endorsed it. There is a reason they are getting rid of the animation cancelling and slowing down the weaving. It is still gonna kinda be there, but neutered quite a bit. And I will enjoy the tears a lot.

ThatGuyCameron · March 2016

tl;dr:

Zergers Medium+ sized group players are mad about animation cancel gankers being better DPS'

Gankers/1v1sters are mad about being rolled over by zergs medium+ sized groups or having their duels interrupted

Simple answer; give us arenas or some basic dueling mechanism, everyone goes their own way

Jade1986 · March 2016

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

tl;dr:

Zergers Medium+ sized group players are mad about animation cancel gankers being better DPS'

Gankers/1v1sters are mad about being rolled over by zergs medium+ sized groups or having their duels interrupted

Simple answer; give us arenas or some basic dueling mechanism, everyone goes their own way

Regardless of all that, animation cancelling is getting toned down a lot with the next update. Here is hoping they stick to their word. The cancellation will be gone, but weaving is still there.

KundaliniHero · March 2016

Who cares. [snip]
That's the beauty of a videogame, ignoring people is easy.

[edited for naming and baiting]

Bofrari · March 2016

Read the patch notes of the latest pts animation cancelling is here to stay and you cannot exploit it you need know what your talking about before you commit.

Jade1986 · March 2016

JDC1985 wrote: »

Read the patch notes of the latest pts animation cancelling is here to stay and you cannot exploit it you need know what your talking about before you commit.

And I quote.

"We have reverted the animation prioritization changes that were introduced in patch 2.3.0, and will release these changes once they’re ready"

So no, they aren't here to stay, they are still working on it. And I will be ready with my skiff to sail through the tears.

LuminaLilly · March 2016

KundaliniHero wrote: »

Who cares.
Thats the beauty of a videogame, ignoring people is easy.

Something tells me you didn't get the point of this thread.

This thread is for discussion. And I welcome all to share their thoughts and opinions.

[edited to remove quote]

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2016

I always find it funny in anything team oriented that people try to claim the best person is the guy who can win 1 on 1. Steph Curry is the best basketball player on earth, but if he played Andre Drummond whomever had the ball first would probably win, and even if Drummond beat him 15-0 because Curry couldn't get a rebound nobody in thier right mind would ever claim Drummond to be the NBAs best basketball player. Same thing happens in poker. I've beaten guys in a 9 handed game and get challenged to a 1 on 1 many times. The games couldn't be more different.

Which brings me back to ESO. In a 1 on 1 duel I will lose 80 to 90% of the time. Meanwhile, when I have enough blockers I can stand in the second line healing and DPSing my butt off. I've taken down hundreds of Zergs 10 on 30 over the last year because my toon is set up to make my teammates better. Ever wonder why a stalemate turns into a bum rush? It's because of your friendly neighborhood Templar placed directly behind you.

Now does this mean I'm awful? Does it mean I'm great? Who knows. All I know is that in certain situations I've been the best guy on the battlefield and other times the most useless. 1 on 1ing may make someone feel good but it proves nothing more than your good at fighting 1 person in a controlled environment.