Very Serious Question. Nightblade to Others,

Lifecode666 · January 2016

Add Cooldown on all gapclosers or make it so it drains more juice if you spam it on one target over and over within a certain timeframe.
Cooldown would be best since streak can also be used as escape.

Cloak. Make it so it drains more and more after each time.
This is all a championpoint issue if we go back to start.
With loads of points in mag recovery and reduce mag cost this can be spammed over and over.
We all know this..

NB is not broken, the champion point system is.

Surprise attack is fine.

Fear is fine.

iosis13 · January 2016

KundaliniHero wrote: »

Nightblades OP?
I would say the class that can tank loads of damage behind an anti-critable shield while dropping lethal 10-14k instant cast CF's and darts around the battlefield faster than the blink of an eye, all while wearing a bath robe would be a better candidate. Seriously though instead of nerfing NB'S and/or Sorcs they need to buff Templars and DK's making them more in line and competitive.

Nightblades are easy to counter and most are extremely predictable. The thing with NB's though is if they catch you with your pants down your done, I think thats how they were intended to perform. The only adjustments I think that are needed to make them perfect would be to MODIFY AMBUSH SO THAT IT HAS A MINIMUM DISTANCE LIKE EVERY OTHER GAP CLOSER IN THE GAME. They also need to MODIFY GAP CLOSERS SO THAT THE SNARE IS WORKING PROPERLY AND DOESNT STUN. And lastly they need to [snip] FIX CAMO HUNTER! Outside of that I think NB's are fine.

There is nothing easy about achieving balance but a good start is to have a competent team of play testers who are PVP focused something which I think ZOS lacks. It would really benefit ZOS to look at recruiting the top ESO PVP players to assist them in achieving this balance rather than pandering to the b*tching and moaning of the forums.

This!

Therium104 wrote: »

iosis13 wrote: »

I played every class and imo Nightblades are not OP since they are pretty easy to counter with an aoe to bring them out of cloak.
The only class which performs better than it should be are sorcs.
Since there are Sorcs like Legendary Shey and Master Kain, nearly every Smurf on EU Server plays their Build in PvP.
I dont know how many times they 1vX'ed our team of fully geared v16 charakters (l2p trololol).
These shieldstacking sorcs are way more powerful in endgame than NBs.

The thread is not about Sorcs. If ZOS is serious about balance and the player experience for all classes there is absolutely NO way the NB class will not get nerfed. It is only a matter of time.

This thread is about how op NBs are,... i know. But you could also do a thread about how op Templars are and forget to mention all other classes are better. You should look at the performance of all classes when you want to nerf one.

Classes which should get nerfed in order to bring them to the level of the others: Both (Mag and Stam) Sorcs and NBs.
Skills: Ambush, Cap on Shieldstacking, Wrecking Blow ...

I guess with the next patch they fix the advantage of Stambuilds with the CP System.

[Moderator Note: Edited moderated quote]

PURPLE245 · January 2016

my main problem with nbs is just the fact they play like wimps there dmg is really good and there healing its really good yet they dont dare come out of stealth i dont get it

Septimus_Magna · January 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It would help the game a lot more if people would just be honest and admit that Nightblades now are the Dragon Knights of 2014. There's a reason all the tryhards and scrubs run Nightblades these days.

Only if they're played by decent skilled players.

Most NBs die so easily that I get the "kill 20 Enemy Nightblades" quest almost as fast as kill enemy players.

That's probably more because of the sheer amount of Nightblades than anything else. Back when Dragon Knights were OP as *** the Kill DK quest was still the second fastest to complete after the regular Kill 20 Players one.

Thats true, the amount of NBs running around also has something to do with it.

Cloak does have a lot of counters and when Cloak doesnt work its a lot harder for NBs to survive. Most NBs simply die within 5 seconds.

I only wish DKs reflect had so many counters back when DKs were OP, the only way I could counter DKs with perma-reflect with my sorc was to run Defensive Posture to double reflect or Negate the DK to remove his reflect.

Now its only matter of popping a potion to reveal the Cloaking NB, Piercing Mark is even better but only available for NBs ofc.

ZOS_AlanG · January 2016

PvP discussion is often competitive, and debate is welcome on the forums. But it's very important that such discussions not devolve into insults or other attacks. This makes for a hostile community, and inflammatory comments are against the forum rules

It's fine to disagree, or even take issue with, someone's opinions, but please keep to civil and constructive criticism. There's a lot of constructive discussion in this thread, but we have also removed a side discussion which became overly hostile. Let's please ensure the discussion stays on track.

Lava_Croft · January 2016

PURPLE245 wrote: »

my main problem with nbs is just the fact they play like wimps there dmg is really good and there healing its really good yet they dont dare come out of stealth i dont get it

You can't kill anything without coming out of stealth so I see no problem there.

Therium104 · January 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It would help the game a lot more if people would just be honest and admit that Nightblades now are the Dragon Knights of 2014. There's a reason all the tryhards and scrubs run Nightblades these days.

Only if they're played by decent skilled players.

Most NBs die so easily that I get the "kill 20 Enemy Nightblades" quest almost as fast as kill enemy players.

That's probably more because of the sheer amount of Nightblades than anything else. Back when Dragon Knights were OP as *** the Kill DK quest was still the second fastest to complete after the regular Kill 20 Players one.

Thats true, the amount of NBs running around also has something to do with it.

Cloak does have a lot of counters and when Cloak doesnt work its a lot harder for NBs to survive. Most NBs simply die within 5 seconds.

I only wish DKs reflect had so many counters back when DKs were OP, the only way I could counter DKs with perma-reflect with my sorc was to run Defensive Posture to double reflect or Negate the DK to remove his reflect.

Now its only matter of popping a potion to reveal the Cloaking NB, Piercing Mark is even better but only available for NBs ofc.

Lol.... Poor overpowered no skill to play NB

I just hope ZOS does their job and nerfs NB sooner rather than later. People are losing patience.

revonine · January 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It would help the game a lot more if people would just be honest and admit that Nightblades now are the Dragon Knights of 2014. There's a reason all the tryhards and scrubs run Nightblades these days.

Only if they're played by decent skilled players.

Most NBs die so easily that I get the "kill 20 Enemy Nightblades" quest almost as fast as kill enemy players.

That's probably more because of the sheer amount of Nightblades than anything else. Back when Dragon Knights were OP as *** the Kill DK quest was still the second fastest to complete after the regular Kill 20 Players one.

Thats true, the amount of NBs running around also has something to do with it.

Cloak does have a lot of counters and when Cloak doesnt work its a lot harder for NBs to survive. Most NBs simply die within 5 seconds.

I only wish DKs reflect had so many counters back when DKs were OP, the only way I could counter DKs with perma-reflect with my sorc was to run Defensive Posture to double reflect or Negate the DK to remove his reflect.

Now its only matter of popping a potion to reveal the Cloaking NB, Piercing Mark is even better but only available for NBs ofc.

Lol.... Poor overpowered no skill to play NB

I just hope ZOS does their job and nerfs NB sooner rather than later. People are losing patience.

Great, and we'll move on to the next FOTM then ad nauseum. And then people will come here to the forums to moan..again. "I just hope ZOS does their job" and brings the weaker classes in line instead. Maybe address some more viable counters instead of nerf nerf nerf.

Junkogen · January 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

This sounds like a person who clearly never played as a Nightblade, or you want to distort facts to ruin a class.

thelordoffelines · January 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

This sounds like a person who clearly never played as a Nightblade, or you want to distort facts to ruin a class.

What is he distorting? Does dark cloak not have the ability to provide all of those things?

Valencer · January 2016

This is literally the 1.6 sorc debate all over again. That ended well for the sorcs.

Would be quite ironic if nightblades get hit by the nerfbat in the Thieves Guild update.

joe.smith21b14_ESO · January 2016

PURPLE245 wrote: »

my main problem with nbs is just the fact they play like wimps there dmg is really good and there healing its really good yet they dont dare come out of stealth i dont get it

Ninja bruh

aLi3nZ · January 2016

I play as a sourc which along with nb is the most popular in pvp. I decided to try nightblade and am in the process of leveling a AD NB toon. I did find that i was able to easily spam gapclosers and other skills a lot faster then any sourc skills and they can do ridiculous amount of damage as well as cc the enemy. Where as what instant spammable skills do other classes have with such high damage and cc? pretty much none. sourc can spam mages wrath but that does very little damage unless target is below 20% health. They can't spam streak without draininig all magika. Webs can be spammed and do snare the target but it a little bit avg damage and not even a sourc skill, its undaunted.

As far as cloak. that should not be nerfed. its 4 seconds and entirely unique and necessary for nb to have.

Junkogen · January 2016

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

This sounds like a person who clearly never played as a Nightblade, or you want to distort facts to ruin a class.

What is he distorting? Does dark cloak not have the ability to provide all of those things?

It doesn't grant speed or purge or extra damage from multiple sources. It grants invisibility and one morph removes DoTs and the other guarantees a crit. Read the skill description. You guys exaggerate to help your argument, but it does the opposite because it just shows that you have an agenda. You can't just lump a bunch of combinations together and call it one skill. It's a combination of skills, not just one. So stop the BS.

arcantonias · January 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

This sounds like a person who clearly never played as a Nightblade, or you want to distort facts to ruin a class.

What is he distorting? Does dark cloak not have the ability to provide all of those things?

It doesn't grant speed or purge or extra damage from multiple sources. It grants invisibility and one morph removes DoTs and the other guarantees a crit. Read the skill description. You guys exaggerate to help your argument, but it does the opposite because it just shows that you have an agenda. You can't just lump a bunch of combinations together and call it one skill. It's a combination of skills, not just one. So stop the BS.

if you are using concealed weapon and dark cloak it does indeed grant all 5 of those effects, every magblade pvp setup has these 2 skills. also slotting these 2 skills grants a 6% max health bonus and using dark cloak increases stun durations of skills like surprise attack by 100%. the only difference between that setup and basic stam setup is surprise attack doesnt grant you the movement speed. so dark cloak itself doesnt grant the movement speed bonus but it does do everything else including the max health bonus. most of us understand that these effects come from passives but 1 skill activating 7 passives including ones associated with other active skills is kinda over the top compared to every other class. you could even take it 1 step further adding passives like duel wield ruffian which benefit from the cloak-surprise attack stun increasing your damage by 15% or even just a duel wield heavy attack stun from stealth. From stealth surprise attack also sets enemies off balance, increasing your damage by 10% from the exploiter passive in the cp tree. these kinds of combos can be replicated by other classes, but only once then they are engaged in combat, nb can cloak and repeatedly receive these buffs everytime they engage with a target, even if they were already in combat. there is not another spammer in the game that even comes close to these kinds of benefits. not too mention it has been shown many times by well known streamers that can duel wield heavy attack-surprise attack and not be revealed until the surprise attack hits. same with ambush-surprise attack.

AltusVenifus · January 2016

The answer is no they haven't... So easy to tell... So much misinformation in these posts...

Junkogen · January 2016

arcantonias wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

This sounds like a person who clearly never played as a Nightblade, or you want to distort facts to ruin a class.

What is he distorting? Does dark cloak not have the ability to provide all of those things?

It doesn't grant speed or purge or extra damage from multiple sources. It grants invisibility and one morph removes DoTs and the other guarantees a crit. Read the skill description. You guys exaggerate to help your argument, but it does the opposite because it just shows that you have an agenda. You can't just lump a bunch of combinations together and call it one skill. It's a combination of skills, not just one. So stop the BS.

if you are using concealed weapon and dark cloak it does indeed grant all 5 of those effects, every magblade pvp setup has these 2 skills. also slotting these 2 skills grants a 6% max health bonus and using dark cloak increases stun durations of skills like surprise attack by 100%. the only difference between that setup and basic stam setup is surprise attack doesnt grant you the movement speed. so dark cloak itself doesnt grant the movement speed bonus but it does do everything else including the max health bonus. most of us understand that these effects come from passives but 1 skill activating 7 passives including ones associated with other active skills is kinda over the top compared to every other class. you could even take it 1 step further adding passives like duel wield ruffian which benefit from the cloak-surprise attack stun increasing your damage by 15% or even just a duel wield heavy attack stun from stealth. From stealth surprise attack also sets enemies off balance, increasing your damage by 10% from the exploiter passive in the cp tree. these kinds of combos can be replicated by other classes, but only once then they are engaged in combat, nb can cloak and repeatedly receive these buffs everytime they engage with a target, even if they were already in combat. there is not another spammer in the game that even comes close to these kinds of benefits. not too mention it has been shown many times by well known streamers that can duel wield heavy attack-surprise attack and not be revealed until the surprise attack hits. same with ambush-surprise attack.

You need to reread your post. It's not cloak that does all of that. It's cloak along with concealed weapon and passives. So it's not just the one ability. Again, you're exaggerating and pinning it all on one ability when it's a combination of passives and other abilities. You can't just lump an entire build into one ability. That's exactly what all you nerf cloak people do. You take an entire build and misrepresent it as one ability.

arcantonias · January 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

arcantonias wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

This sounds like a person who clearly never played as a Nightblade, or you want to distort facts to ruin a class.

What is he distorting? Does dark cloak not have the ability to provide all of those things?

It doesn't grant speed or purge or extra damage from multiple sources. It grants invisibility and one morph removes DoTs and the other guarantees a crit. Read the skill description. You guys exaggerate to help your argument, but it does the opposite because it just shows that you have an agenda. You can't just lump a bunch of combinations together and call it one skill. It's a combination of skills, not just one. So stop the BS.

if you are using concealed weapon and dark cloak it does indeed grant all 5 of those effects, every magblade pvp setup has these 2 skills. also slotting these 2 skills grants a 6% max health bonus and using dark cloak increases stun durations of skills like surprise attack by 100%. the only difference between that setup and basic stam setup is surprise attack doesnt grant you the movement speed. so dark cloak itself doesnt grant the movement speed bonus but it does do everything else including the max health bonus. most of us understand that these effects come from passives but 1 skill activating 7 passives including ones associated with other active skills is kinda over the top compared to every other class. you could even take it 1 step further adding passives like duel wield ruffian which benefit from the cloak-surprise attack stun increasing your damage by 15% or even just a duel wield heavy attack stun from stealth. From stealth surprise attack also sets enemies off balance, increasing your damage by 10% from the exploiter passive in the cp tree. these kinds of combos can be replicated by other classes, but only once then they are engaged in combat, nb can cloak and repeatedly receive these buffs everytime they engage with a target, even if they were already in combat. there is not another spammer in the game that even comes close to these kinds of benefits. not too mention it has been shown many times by well known streamers that can duel wield heavy attack-surprise attack and not be revealed until the surprise attack hits. same with ambush-surprise attack.

You need to reread your post. It's not cloak that does all of that. It's cloak along with concealed weapon and passives. So it's not just the one ability. Again, you're exaggerating and pinning it all on one ability when it's a combination of passives and other abilities. You can't just lump an entire build into one ability. That's exactly what all you nerf cloak people do. You take an entire build and misrepresent it as one ability.

i never once said nerf cloak, I only stated the facts about how it works, maybe you should reread my post. The point being (and this is in my post) that no other class has these kind of synergies between active skills and passives. I'm not asking for anything to be nerfed but the majority agrees that nightblades and magicka sorcs or the other classes need to be adjusted somehow to be more balanced. And yes I play all 4 classes, pve and pvp. I spend most of my day dueling and really only leave the dueling spots to do crafting writs. The most annoying classes to duel are by far magicka sorcs, stamina and magicka nightblades. You say I need to reread my post like the information in there isn't correct, but it is. I mean don't even get me started on the camo hunter bug that nbs are able to exploit over and over. The fact that all these effects activated by so few skills come from passives and skills that every nb has on their bar is irrelevant, the real truth is that no other class has access to these kinds of synergies between their own abilities, cp system and weapon skill lines, let alone passives and effects that nbs can repeat over and over because of the stealth system. The topic of this discussion isn't about nerfing cloak, it's about the nightblade class having an advantage over the other classes.

SeventhCelestial · January 2016

Feisty_Khajiit128 wrote: »

But Nb's are so fun to play, yes they are imbalanced, but who doesn't like doing like 22k burst damage right out of stealth?

I agree that it's fun, but we should be able to achieve this though skill, not exploit of current problems. I asked a friend of mine about the ambush gap closer, and why everyone here and him, himself feels that needs fixed, and I realized it's just me. because I don't gank often enough. I'm attacking people with Lotus Fan, as I am already in the middle of a zerg battle. I don't just wait for the perfect moment, I jump in, get kills and die. A lot.

SeventhCelestial · January 2016

laced wrote: »

Angus wrote: »

Witar wrote: »

Have magblade. Easymod compared to my dk.
Stamblade will be even more powerfull i think.

But deep down, your magblade will always

laced wrote: »

SeventhCelestial wrote: »

For those who really hate Nightblades, and say they are broken: Have you ever played one?

This isn't meant to be like an extra salty type of question. This is just what I want to know. A few of the people I know and hate NB's have never played one, but want to say we are broken as a class. Why?

Yes, I have played all classes now, and Stam / magicka nightblades are not even easy mode. they are barny the dinosaur playtime braindead easy mode.

... In specific scenarios. Sort of like how almost every possible build excels in a very OP manner at specific scenarios. For plenty of situations I would rather not have my nightblade.

Youre kidding right? A magicka dk excels in no scenario right now, and nightblades excel in almost all scenarios. They are so easy to it is simply silly.

I've been trying a Magicka DK myself, and it's hard. It really, really is. They need help catching up with everything else. The game is suppose to be where you can play anyway you want. Which you can it seems~ as long as you're not a M-DK.

SeventhCelestial · January 2016

MormondPayne_EP wrote: »

SeventhCelestial wrote: »

For those who really hate Nightblades, and say they are broken: Have you ever played one?

This isn't meant to be like an extra salty type of question. This is just what I want to know. A few of the people I know and hate NB's have never played one, but want to say we are broken as a class. Why?

Yes, after the longest time of playing Sorc and Templar I rerolled an NB and went into PvP... easy mode.

Question back... Have you NB's ever played any other class? because your view of things is seriously skewed.

Me personally, yes. I've mainly played Sorcs, and NB's. But I branched out to Templar, which became my favorite class real fast, and I am teaching myself how to tank with DK's, and even going the harder route on this by trying M-DK.

Mac10murda · January 2016

I have played a stam blade since console release and it got boring just ambush sa sa fear

Junkogen · January 2016

arcantonias wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

arcantonias wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

This sounds like a person who clearly never played as a Nightblade, or you want to distort facts to ruin a class.

What is he distorting? Does dark cloak not have the ability to provide all of those things?

It doesn't grant speed or purge or extra damage from multiple sources. It grants invisibility and one morph removes DoTs and the other guarantees a crit. Read the skill description. You guys exaggerate to help your argument, but it does the opposite because it just shows that you have an agenda. You can't just lump a bunch of combinations together and call it one skill. It's a combination of skills, not just one. So stop the BS.

if you are using concealed weapon and dark cloak it does indeed grant all 5 of those effects, every magblade pvp setup has these 2 skills. also slotting these 2 skills grants a 6% max health bonus and using dark cloak increases stun durations of skills like surprise attack by 100%. the only difference between that setup and basic stam setup is surprise attack doesnt grant you the movement speed. so dark cloak itself doesnt grant the movement speed bonus but it does do everything else including the max health bonus. most of us understand that these effects come from passives but 1 skill activating 7 passives including ones associated with other active skills is kinda over the top compared to every other class. you could even take it 1 step further adding passives like duel wield ruffian which benefit from the cloak-surprise attack stun increasing your damage by 15% or even just a duel wield heavy attack stun from stealth. From stealth surprise attack also sets enemies off balance, increasing your damage by 10% from the exploiter passive in the cp tree. these kinds of combos can be replicated by other classes, but only once then they are engaged in combat, nb can cloak and repeatedly receive these buffs everytime they engage with a target, even if they were already in combat. there is not another spammer in the game that even comes close to these kinds of benefits. not too mention it has been shown many times by well known streamers that can duel wield heavy attack-surprise attack and not be revealed until the surprise attack hits. same with ambush-surprise attack.

You need to reread your post. It's not cloak that does all of that. It's cloak along with concealed weapon and passives. So it's not just the one ability. Again, you're exaggerating and pinning it all on one ability when it's a combination of passives and other abilities. You can't just lump an entire build into one ability. That's exactly what all you nerf cloak people do. You take an entire build and misrepresent it as one ability.

i never once said nerf cloak, I only stated the facts about how it works, maybe you should reread my post. The point being (and this is in my post) that no other class has these kind of synergies between active skills and passives. I'm not asking for anything to be nerfed but the majority agrees that nightblades and magicka sorcs or the other classes need to be adjusted somehow to be more balanced. And yes I play all 4 classes, pve and pvp. I spend most of my day dueling and really only leave the dueling spots to do crafting writs. The most annoying classes to duel are by far magicka sorcs, stamina and magicka nightblades. You say I need to reread my post like the information in there isn't correct, but it is. I mean don't even get me started on the camo hunter bug that nbs are able to exploit over and over. The fact that all these effects activated by so few skills come from passives and skills that every nb has on their bar is irrelevant, the real truth is that no other class has access to these kinds of synergies between their own abilities, cp system and weapon skill lines, let alone passives and effects that nbs can repeat over and over because of the stealth system. The topic of this discussion isn't about nerfing cloak, it's about the nightblade class having an advantage over the other classes.

I'm all for balance, but I don't think cloak is at the heart of it. It took forever to even get it to function at all and now people want to ruin it with nerfs. Instead of nerfs, how about buffs? I say roll back some of the nerfs they did before and fix other abilities and see how that works before gutting another unique ability.

Also, I don't understand your point about NBs being able to use abilities over and over again. So can other classes. Every build uses some kind of spammable move. There are only 5 slots and two bars, unless you're a Sorc (how's that for balance?). Spam is inescapable in this game. NBs aren't the problem. Sorcs aren't even the problem. It's that the classes have never all functioned at once. There's always been a broken class or abilities that don't work. They nerf things before others get fixed and then once they fix broken things there's an imbalance again. They need to get things fixed before gutting skills.

For instance, what about heavy armor? Not many folks are running with that. So what happens if they finally make that relevant? I bet there's going to be another overpowered class. Then people will be screaming for nerfs again.

I don't know. It sounds like you and other are pissed because a class works but it's not the one you want to play. Let's not break every class because some don't like how their main plays. I main an Argonian. Does that mean I want everyone else's racial passives nerfed? Heck no, I just want mine fixed and made as useful and competitive as everyone else's. That's how people should think about class balance. Come up with ways to make the classes unique, but fairly balanced. Every class shouldn't be able to cloak, just like every class shouldn't be able to streak or reflect or be great at healing. Otherwise, why have classes? Nightblades don't have an advantage. They have a unique ability as does every other class. People should learn how to use them.

Also, maybe the reason people are rolling NBs are because of the next DLCs: Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood. It's the perception that NBs are the sneaky assassins. I don't know. I just don't think it's because NBs are overpowered. Sorcs are beasts. How come people choose NB over Sorc? Also, everyone rolled DK in the beginning. Maybe people got bored of that playstyle and wanted to switch it up. I just don't buy into all the latest theories on how NBs are gods.

arcantonias · January 2016

I think I am just done arguing with you, my point has nothing to do with repeatable (spammable) abilities. I know everyone has a spammer skill that is their main dps skill. Nightblades can abuse things like stealth damage bonuses, either assassin skill passives or racial, camo hunter bugs, exploiter and ruffian passives. Things that any other class can only do once and then they are stuck in combat, some they don't even really get access to. I still never said to nerf anything I only pointed out the facts. You have still never given any facts about another class to change my mind about nightblades having an advantage. I mean basically everyone else in this thread plays nightblades including myself and they all just say things like "its so easy its silly, ambush sa sa fear sa." I am only giving facts about how the class works and is designed so if you can do a better job or give any of the other classes justice by comparing them to nightblades I would suggest doing that, not just lumping me into the nerf callers and theorycrafting a bunch of stuff that has't happened yet. It seems to me that nightblades and sorcs are definitely going to get balanced and you just don't like it.

Cody · January 2016

the class is not broken, it is just able to take better advantage of the way resources are currently designed and usesd in this game. the new meta is to pour most of ones stats into one resource, and Nightblades just happen to be able to use that more effectively than others. Its like when mana builds were OP, DKs were able to take better advantage of the fact, but it did not make DKs OP.

Nerfing the NB will not solve this issue. If the NB gets nerfed it will be the sorcerer that is targted for nerfs next, but the same problems will persist. Being able to achieve 12K wrecking blows, for example, is not the NBs fault, even though they can take better advantage of it. That is due to the fact one can get their weapon damage to ridiculous levels. If we all want an end to 12K wrecking blows and the like, we need to discuss ways to better balance weapon damage, same with the magical equivalents.

Lava_Croft · January 2016

Cody wrote: »

the class is not broken, it is just able to take better advantage of the way resources are currently designed and usesd in this game. the new meta is to pour most of ones stats into one resource, and Nightblades just happen to be able to use that more effectively than others. Its like when mana builds were OP, DKs were able to take better advantage of the fact, but it did not make DKs OP.

Nerfing the NB will not solve this issue. If the NB gets nerfed it will be the sorcerer that is targted for nerfs next, but the same problems will persist. Being able to achieve 12K wrecking blows, for example, is not the NBs fault, even though they can take better advantage of it. That is due to the fact one can get their weapon damage to ridiculous levels. If we all want an end to 12K wrecking blows and the like, we need to discuss ways to better balance weapon damage, same with the magical equivalents.

Exactly the same situation with Magicka Sorcerers. Dump all in one stat for maximum gain.

Rylana · January 2016

SeventhCelestial wrote: »

For those who really hate Nightblades, and say they are broken: Have you ever played one?

This isn't meant to be like an extra salty type of question. This is just what I want to know. A few of the people I know and hate NB's have never played one, but want to say we are broken as a class. Why?

Ive played stamblade since launch day, my first character Kailiana has always been a stamblade.

I play it very little now, because its so stupid OP.

Knootewoot · January 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

1. yes, for 2.9 seconds. And it can be countered. Invisibility potions last 15 seconds and you can get 40% speed with those potions extra
2. Not true. It does not give speed. Only if a magblade uses concealed weapon and that is a minor passive speedbuff and not a very fast speed. I think 25%. But cloak itself gives NO speed.
3. Yes, for up to 2 DOTS.
4. Maybe to much for an already brutal stamblade. But it's necessary for magblades
5. yes, thank god. A magblade with light armor needs it. It's much less armor then a sorc shield

CP5 · January 2016

Knootewoot wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

1. yes, for 2.9 seconds. And it can be countered. Invisibility potions last 15 seconds and you can get 40% speed with those potions extra
2. Not true. It does not give speed. Only if a magblade uses concealed weapon and that is a minor passive speedbuff and not a very fast speed. I think 25%. But cloak itself gives NO speed.
3. Yes, for up to 2 DOTS.
4. Maybe to much for an already brutal stamblade. But it's necessary for magblades
5. yes, thank god. A magblade with light armor needs it. It's much less armor then a sorc shield

Potions have a 45s cooldown, cloak has the default internal cooldown all skills do. NB's have 25% bonus movement speed from concealed weapon, but also 3 sources of the 40% speed buff, 165% move speed while invisible. Cloak purges up to 4 dots, i've seen many NB's who don't seem to have looked at the tooltips of their skills recently as it gains 1 dot purge per rank. As for the armor from using any shadow skill, shields provide 0 armor, just a barrier to take damage.

pjwb16_ESO · January 2016

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

have to agree on this, just dont play my nb cause its boring as *** after the whole time