Very Serious Question. Nightblade to Others,

SeventhCelestial

For those who really hate Nightblades, and say they are broken: Have you ever played one?

This isn't meant to be like an extra salty type of question. This is just what I want to know. A few of the people I know and hate NB's have never played one, but want to say we are broken as a class. Why?

MADshadowmans_Ghost

Yep, played a lot of nightblade pvp. Magicka and stamina.

Stamina is broken. Hate stam nbs more than anything else.

Derra

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

LegendaryChef

Played most of Eso as a sorc and when I finally made a NB I could honestly say it's the most broken class in the game currently.

++ What Derra said

TheBull

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Alucardo

I've played one. Wouldn't say they are necessarily "broken", they just make use of one of the strongest and annoying mechanics in the game: stealth.
Along with stealth they have extremely high burst damage, mobility, resource management and the ability to engage/disengage a fight whenever they choose it.
Not to mention every one of their abilities seems to cause a CC. Sorry, but I really hate Nightblades.

DannyLV702

I spank NBs all day. Buff sorc though

Ishammael

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

Escorpiao_Noturno

I hate NB..
I don't have nothing against Templars, DKs and Sorcs.

heystreethawk

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

1. Almost impossible to pull off in a group setting, unless you are fighting a group that only uses single target effects, does not use ground effects due to a heightened awareness of their environmental footprint (they also take used soul gems to designated recycling centers), and do not use anything like Lightning Form or Blade Cloak or Spiked Armor because they're straight edge and want to maintain a certain purity of body

2. Only if you have Concealed Weapon slotted on the same bar (so not applicable to stamblades, thank god; stam builds have enough ways to access speed buffs, and every single one of them gives you more speed by itself than the Concealed Weapon + Cloak combo platter)

3. Only the Dark Cloak morph, and it only purges DoTs, not debuffs. There are a ton of reasons why DoTs are not really effective sources of damage in PvP at the moment, and yes, Dark Cloak is one of them

4. Only one source, unless you are a Wood Elf or Cat Man, or are using the Shadowy Disguise morph (in which case, #3 does not apply). That 10% damage buff is usually not even a thing in open world, because of #1

5. Oh man a 5 second buff in the form of Major Resolve and Major Ward, which is also applied by Immovable, the Dragonknight's Spiked Armor, the Sorceror's Lightning Form, and the Templar's Rune Focus, all of which last significantly longer and require less Magicka than Cloak to re-apply (except for Lightning Form which does not cost significantly less Magicka). Say a prayer 2nite to the unborn Baby Talos that he wakes up born and ascended and drops a huge nerf on the Shadow Barrier passive

eliisra

This thread is a bit meh, no offence. I mean literally everyone with an ESO account has a NB character, including PvE'ers. While almost every PvP'er have been in Cyrodiil on a NB character. So the answers will be a huge majority of yes and yes.

Trying to think if I know a single PvP'er that never played NB in Cyrodiil. But dont know as single guy that fits the description.

What class is your current main? As in not the main you played 10 months ago before re-rolling lol. That's more relevant if you want honest answers about class balance. Only than you truly know how and when people are being biased.

CP5

heystreethawk wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

1. Almost impossible to pull off in a group setting, unless you are fighting a group that only uses single target effects, does not use ground effects due to a heightened awareness of their environmental footprint (they also take used soul gems to designated recycling centers), and do not use anything like Lightning Form or Blade Cloak or Spiked Armor because they're straight edge and want to maintain a certain purity of body

2. Only if you have Concealed Weapon slotted on the same bar (so not applicable to stamblades, thank god; stam builds have enough ways to access speed buffs, and every single one of them gives you more speed by itself than the Concealed Weapon + Cloak combo platter)

3. Only the Dark Cloak morph, and it only purges DoTs, not debuffs. There are a ton of reasons why DoTs are not really effective sources of damage in PvP at the moment, and yes, Dark Cloak is one of them

4. Only one source, unless you are a Wood Elf or Cat Man, or are using the Shadowy Disguise morph (in which case, #3 does not apply). That 10% damage buff is usually not even a thing in open world, because of #1

5. Oh man a 5 second buff in the form of Major Resolve and Major Ward, which is also applied by Immovable, the Dragonknight's Spiked Armor, the Sorceror's Lightning Form, and the Templar's Rune Focus, all of which last significantly longer and require less Magicka than Cloak to re-apply (except for Lightning Form which does not cost significantly less Magicka). Say a prayer 2nite to the unborn Baby Talos that he wakes up born and ascended and drops a huge nerf on the Shadow Barrier passive

1. With shade all you need is some cover, place the shade, loop around the cover then teleport from one side of the cover to the other.

2. Nightblades have 3 sources of the major move speed buff, they can all be combined with concealed weapons speed buff, how isn't that speed beyond what most other class can dream of?

4. Just looking over a list of NB skills here. Death stroke increases damage against the target (on a 50 point ultimate cost), Empower from Ambush, Mark Target's major armor and spell resist debuffs, Grim Focuses minor berserk, Master Assassin (as you noted), Hemorrhage (buffs damage of crits), Mentioning Surprise Attack here since it is a very easy to spam ability that gives the target major fracture and gives the caster the major resist buffs, Drain Power when it hits an enemy, and that's it. Sure doesn't look like one source.

5. Those major buffs are applied per shadow skill use (surprise attack/concealed weapon, cloak, fear, shade, all skills no nb ever uses, right?). Should I add this passive adds 1s to its duration per heavy armor piece slotted? It's the only class passive that helps counter the hit to resource generation that happens when you use heavy armor, on the class with the best regen to counter that resource hit as is.

EDIT: As a side note I run 2 of each class, generally with one magicka and one stamina. I won't say my time on my NB's is overpowered, but it is incredibly amusing how much the class has that the others simply don't.

Moglijuana

I have a v16 stam NB. I do not touch him. I get too many hate messages. I mainly play on my Magicka DK. I still get hate messages. From other NB's lololol. But seriously, not to say NBs are Over Powered, but besides Magicka Sorc and Stam DK, the other classes need to be brought up to par to compete. The problem atm is ANY player, good or bad, can play a NB successfully. Other classes, not so much.

The problem that I see about defending the NB class is from players who ONLY play their NBs and think that it's fair. Well, it's not, L2P another class that takes more skill. I don't even have to switch bars to engage/kill/retreat on my NB where as Magicka DK for example needs to use EVERY.SINGLE.ABILITY. on their bar to compete. And then die a few seconds (sometimes minutes!) later to the zerg.

Even with all their OPness, nothing is better than squashing "good" NB's in a duel . Fossilize ftw!

OdinForge

The [snip] was the point of this thread, what kind of a response were you expecting?

People here are just listing [snip] out of their [snip], that looks nice on paper but doesn't translate so well in application. Don't ask the opinion of a stubborn magicka DK, that class/style combo is so bad that they've lost the right to make any judgement on balance until their style somehow gets saved by ZOS, a Skeever could wreck a magicka DK.

heystreethawk

CP5 wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

1. Almost impossible to pull off in a group setting, unless you are fighting a group that only uses single target effects, does not use ground effects due to a heightened awareness of their environmental footprint (they also take used soul gems to designated recycling centers), and do not use anything like Lightning Form or Blade Cloak or Spiked Armor because they're straight edge and want to maintain a certain purity of body

2. Only if you have Concealed Weapon slotted on the same bar (so not applicable to stamblades, thank god; stam builds have enough ways to access speed buffs, and every single one of them gives you more speed by itself than the Concealed Weapon + Cloak combo platter)

3. Only the Dark Cloak morph, and it only purges DoTs, not debuffs. There are a ton of reasons why DoTs are not really effective sources of damage in PvP at the moment, and yes, Dark Cloak is one of them

4. Only one source, unless you are a Wood Elf or Cat Man, or are using the Shadowy Disguise morph (in which case, #3 does not apply). That 10% damage buff is usually not even a thing in open world, because of #1

5. Oh man a 5 second buff in the form of Major Resolve and Major Ward, which is also applied by Immovable, the Dragonknight's Spiked Armor, the Sorceror's Lightning Form, and the Templar's Rune Focus, all of which last significantly longer and require less Magicka than Cloak to re-apply (except for Lightning Form which does not cost significantly less Magicka). Say a prayer 2nite to the unborn Baby Talos that he wakes up born and ascended and drops a huge nerf on the Shadow Barrier passive

1. With shade all you need is some cover, place the shade, loop around the cover then teleport from one side of the cover to the other.

2. Nightblades have 3 sources of the major move speed buff, they can all be combined with concealed weapons speed buff, how isn't that speed beyond what most other class can dream of?

4. Just looking over a list of NB skills here. Death stroke increases damage against the target (on a 50 point ultimate cost), Empower from Ambush, Mark Target's major armor and spell resist debuffs, Grim Focuses minor berserk, Master Assassin (as you noted), Hemorrhage (buffs damage of crits), Mentioning Surprise Attack here since it is a very easy to spam ability that gives the target major fracture and gives the caster the major resist buffs, Drain Power when it hits an enemy, and that's it. Sure doesn't look like one source.

5. Those major buffs are applied per shadow skill use (surprise attack/concealed weapon, cloak, fear, shade, all skills no nb ever uses, right?). Should I add this passive adds 1s to its duration per heavy armor piece slotted? It's the only class passive that helps counter the hit to resource generation that happens when you use heavy armor, on the class with the best regen to counter that resource hit as is.

EDIT: As a side note I run 2 of each class, generally with one magicka and one stamina. I won't say my time on my NB's is overpowered, but it is incredibly amusing how much the class has that the others simply don't.

1. You're not really going to run that skill in a group setting, though, unless you're an enormous *** :0 If I saw someone bipping and bopping and teleporting away all the time in my group, I would politely ask them if they could run something else after our next wipe. It's a solo-heavy thing, and I'm talking about the efficacy of stealth in group combat -- I don't mean to ignore other playstyles, but most class discussion of mechanics focuses on them, whereas most PvP combat that actually takes place is group-oriented, so I figured I'd illustrate how these tough-to-counter solo mechanics are really not that useful in group play. My comment wasn't necessarily addressing the things people do in 1vX scenarios or the sewers, though I'm sure it would be irritating to fight someone using shades in a super small-scale situation

EDIT: just wanna point out that the word which got censored ends in the letters "ode", lest ppl believe I was throwing out a hard cuss. Kinda shocked it got filtered!

3. Ahh, but they're pretty tough to pull off unless you're not concerned about staying stealth! One class skill source of Major Expedition is Cripple, which (and you know this already, just pointing it out to follow through) is a projectile that requires a target, and it can be purged off; I haven't run that skill in PvP since Skoria got the shaft, but my recollection is that you lose the speed buff if it's purged. If you reapply it, you break stealth.

Path of Darkness gives the speed buff too, but only if you stay within the ground effect, which is a vertical line that you will leave in under a second if your speed is boosted by cloak+concealed. If you reapply it, you... break stealth!

Now, if someone is looking for you, and you break stealth, you are not getting back in stealth again, unless the people who are looking for you are all enormous chodes. Double Take does not break stealth (I don't like the fact that some speed boosts, and friggin vigor, are usable in stealth btw), so I will absolutely concede that a Magicka Nightblade running Cloak, Concealed Weapon, and Double Take on the same bar has access to some crazy speed. Again, though, only if they're able to stay in stealth.

4. Those skills can stack with stealth bonuses, for sure; I'm not arguing against the idea that the NB has some extraordinary (and extraordinarily difficult to keep track of!) synergies between its class passives. But I was under the impression that the narrator from Moby *** was referring to cloak itself providing attack bonuses from multiple sources, which I believe to be untrue. I do think Surprise Attack needs to be toned down, absolutely, but you can't exactly cloak a lot if that's your primary damage pool.

EDIT: IT'S A BOOK ZOS SHEESH. What if my name was Richard?!

5. Mostly just addressing the idea of cloak itself providing these bonuses, because it was portrayed as an all-in-one swiss army knife super skill I don't think the armor bonus is OP, though, because every class has access to those buffs (in more of a "set it and forget it" fashion, too), and there are plenty of debuffs out there in the wild. Regarding heavy armor boosting the passive... I ran 3h/3l/1m in 1.6, but I don't think having more than 2h is a viable option this patch, unless you are the all-too-rare straight up tank type player in PvP. In reality, most people will just be wearing 1h, to show everyone how Undaunted they are. You don't feel the resource dip as much a a NB, for sure, but you also don't get the same damage if you're heavy as hell.

(I will note that the shadow barrier comes in super handy when I'm tanking dungeons in PvE, but most dungeons don't even need a tank role these days )

Derra

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Seriously. I died when i slacked on repositioning shade or forgot to keep it up.

The only thing that get a NB reliably killed is mark (atleast from my playing experience which is admittedly limited in terms of stamina - i´ve played a fair bit of mag nb solo though).

Moglijuana

OdinForge wrote: »

The [snip] was the point of this thread, what kind of a response were you expecting?

People here are just listing [snip] out of their [snip], that looks nice on paper but doesn't translate so well in application. Don't ask the opinion of a stubborn magicka DK, that class/style combo is so bad that they've lost the right to make any judgement on balance until their style somehow gets saved by ZOS, a Skeever could wreck a magicka DK.

Pretty sure that is what highlights the imbalance in the game as people playing nerfed classes know exactly what needs to be changed. Not the opposite. I play every class too so it's even more obvious. I don't believe in nerfs, I believe in bringing up other class builds to par with everything else.

Darnathian

Yup. Broken class. havent touched my nb in months.

The OP is also getting the benefit of the stupid battle leveling judging by his sig. and that is broken to for the record.

Bfish22090

do you even play NB?
Nbs need a serious buff.
I was thinking make Ambush a 4 second CC
give strife a stamina morph for stam nb heals
have veil of blades follow you around instead of having it placed in 1 location
cloak also should work as intended where nothing can pull you out of stealth for 3 seconds, no aoes, snares, etc

these changes will make NBs competitive

CP5

Nice response @heystreethawk, my point was more to say NB's have far more than people seem to acknowledge. In one thread where people were saying again that NB's are squishy I mentioned sap tanks and was told that the skills used to support that playstyle were "tank skills" which implied that NB's knew about the skill but those particular ones wanted to avoid skills that add survivability and put as many of their eggs in one basket as possible but not face and repercussions. Also, how many perfectly fine words are automatically censored? I mean really?

OdinForge

Moglijuana wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

The [snip] was the point of this thread, what kind of a response were you expecting?

People here are just listing [snip] out of their [snip], that looks nice on paper but doesn't translate so well in application. Don't ask the opinion of a stubborn magicka DK, that class/style combo is so bad that they've lost the right to make any judgement on balance until their style somehow gets saved by ZOS, a Skeever could wreck a magicka DK.

Pretty sure that is what highlights the imbalance in the game as people playing nerfed classes know exactly what needs to be changed. Not the opposite. I play every class too so it's even more obvious. I don't believe in nerfs, I believe in bringing up other class builds to par with everything else.

Not at all.

NB is strong right now by chance, because other classes have been weakened over time by blind blankets nerfs. The three biggest hits to NB in 1.7 were damage reduction, healing and dodge. But all of those hurt other classes as well, and for other classes that additionally used block more or shields more, it's worse. Not to mention that post 1.7 mobility became huge, hurting magicka builds worse than stamina (due to snares and gap closers). Stamina builds have almost always excelled at mobility (largely post 1.6).

But NB will always be sub-par (or at least harder to play) to other classes at their prime, a good example of that currently is stamina NB versus magicka Sorc. Both are compelling options for top tier class atm, but Sorc should come out on top between the two most if not all of the time.

I play my stamina NB more than my magicka NB, not because his 500 magicka regen versus 1.4K regen makes for emergent cloaking. But because when I'm getting snare and root spammed, I can dodge roll more and not bother with cloak. Ironic considering my magicka NB can cloak infinitely, so scary on paper, so useless in application.

found1779

Dcuo was my 1st mmo i played ever and the quantum power set on there does alot more damage then any other power so everyone plays the same power. then i started play eso when it came out on ps4 and nightblades are the quantum of eso. it's a over powered class it shouldn't be this way ridiculous. all the other classes need to be fixed so they can be as good as nightblades are.

Ishammael

heystreethawk wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I have two nightblades.

I dislike them even more since I´ve played them both in pve and pvp (stam and mag).

Cloak + Shade is undoubtly the strongest ability combination in the game. Also the only real counter to cloak is a NB specific skill (pots never were an issue when i´ve played mine).

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Here is the list of buffs that Cloak gives you:
1. Invisibility
2. Speed
3. Purge
4. Bonus damage from multiple sources
5. EDIT: bonus armor

What even comes close?

1. Almost impossible to pull off in a group setting, unless you are fighting a group that only uses single target effects, does not use ground effects due to a heightened awareness of their environmental footprint (they also take used soul gems to designated recycling centers), and do not use anything like Lightning Form or Blade Cloak or Spiked Armor because they're straight edge and want to maintain a certain purity of body

2. Only if you have Concealed Weapon slotted on the same bar (so not applicable to stamblades, thank god; stam builds have enough ways to access speed buffs, and every single one of them gives you more speed by itself than the Concealed Weapon + Cloak combo platter)

3. Only the Dark Cloak morph, and it only purges DoTs, not debuffs. There are a ton of reasons why DoTs are not really effective sources of damage in PvP at the moment, and yes, Dark Cloak is one of them

4. Only one source, unless you are a Wood Elf or Cat Man, or are using the Shadowy Disguise morph (in which case, #3 does not apply). That 10% damage buff is usually not even a thing in open world, because of #1

5. Oh man a 5 second buff in the form of Major Resolve and Major Ward, which is also applied by Immovable, the Dragonknight's Spiked Armor, the Sorceror's Lightning Form, and the Templar's Rune Focus, all of which last significantly longer and require less Magicka than Cloak to re-apply (except for Lightning Form which does not cost significantly less Magicka). Say a prayer 2nite to the unborn Baby Talos that he wakes up born and ascended and drops a huge nerf on the Shadow Barrier passive

1. With shade all you need is some cover, place the shade, loop around the cover then teleport from one side of the cover to the other.

2. Nightblades have 3 sources of the major move speed buff, they can all be combined with concealed weapons speed buff, how isn't that speed beyond what most other class can dream of?

4. Just looking over a list of NB skills here. Death stroke increases damage against the target (on a 50 point ultimate cost), Empower from Ambush, Mark Target's major armor and spell resist debuffs, Grim Focuses minor berserk, Master Assassin (as you noted), Hemorrhage (buffs damage of crits), Mentioning Surprise Attack here since it is a very easy to spam ability that gives the target major fracture and gives the caster the major resist buffs, Drain Power when it hits an enemy, and that's it. Sure doesn't look like one source.

5. Those major buffs are applied per shadow skill use (surprise attack/concealed weapon, cloak, fear, shade, all skills no nb ever uses, right?). Should I add this passive adds 1s to its duration per heavy armor piece slotted? It's the only class passive that helps counter the hit to resource generation that happens when you use heavy armor, on the class with the best regen to counter that resource hit as is.

EDIT: As a side note I run 2 of each class, generally with one magicka and one stamina. I won't say my time on my NB's is overpowered, but it is incredibly amusing how much the class has that the others simply don't.

1. You're not really going to run that skill in a group setting, though, unless you're an enormous *** :0 If I saw someone bipping and bopping and teleporting away all the time in my group, I would politely ask them if they could run something else after our next wipe. It's a solo-heavy thing, and I'm talking about the efficacy of stealth in group combat -- I don't mean to ignore other playstyles, but most class discussion of mechanics focuses on them, whereas most PvP combat that actually takes place is group-oriented, so I figured I'd illustrate how these tough-to-counter solo mechanics are really not that useful in group play. My comment wasn't necessarily addressing the things people do in 1vX scenarios or the sewers, though I'm sure it would be irritating to fight someone using shades in a super small-scale situation

EDIT: just wanna point out that the word which got censored ends in the letters "ode", lest ppl believe I was throwing out a hard cuss. Kinda shocked it got filtered!

3. Ahh, but they're pretty tough to pull off unless you're not concerned about staying stealth! One class skill source of Major Expedition is Cripple, which (and you know this already, just pointing it out to follow through) is a projectile that requires a target, and it can be purged off; I haven't run that skill in PvP since Skoria got the shaft, but my recollection is that you lose the speed buff if it's purged. If you reapply it, you break stealth.

Path of Darkness gives the speed buff too, but only if you stay within the ground effect, which is a vertical line that you will leave in under a second if your speed is boosted by cloak+concealed. If you reapply it, you... break stealth!

Now, if someone is looking for you, and you break stealth, you are not getting back in stealth again, unless the people who are looking for you are all enormous chodes. Double Take does not break stealth (I don't like the fact that some speed boosts, and friggin vigor, are usable in stealth btw), so I will absolutely concede that a Magicka Nightblade running Cloak, Concealed Weapon, and Double Take on the same bar has access to some crazy speed. Again, though, only if they're able to stay in stealth.

4. Those skills can stack with stealth bonuses, for sure; I'm not arguing against the idea that the NB has some extraordinary (and extraordinarily difficult to keep track of!) synergies between its class passives. But I was under the impression that the narrator from Moby *** was referring to cloak itself providing attack bonuses from multiple sources, which I believe to be untrue. I do think Surprise Attack needs to be toned down, absolutely, but you can't exactly cloak a lot if that's your primary damage pool.

EDIT: IT'S A BOOK ZOS SHEESH. What if my name was Richard?!

5. Mostly just addressing the idea of cloak itself providing these bonuses, because it was portrayed as an all-in-one swiss army knife super skill I don't think the armor bonus is OP, though, because every class has access to those buffs (in more of a "set it and forget it" fashion, too), and there are plenty of debuffs out there in the wild. Regarding heavy armor boosting the passive... I ran 3h/3l/1m in 1.6, but I don't think having more than 2h is a viable option this patch, unless you are the all-too-rare straight up tank type player in PvP. In reality, most people will just be wearing 1h, to show everyone how Undaunted they are. You don't feel the resource dip as much a a NB, for sure, but you also don't get the same damage if you're heavy as hell.

(I will note that the shadow barrier comes in super handy when I'm tanking dungeons in PvE, but most dungeons don't even need a tank role these days )

Ha! Its rare that someone has actually read Moby ***.

Regardless, anyone can name a litany of situations where particular bonuses or mechanics don't apply. I challenge you to name a single skill which provides the range and strength of bonuses that Dark Cloak does. It is, in fact, that "swiss-army super skill".

Moglijuana

OdinForge wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

The [snip] was the point of this thread, what kind of a response were you expecting?

People here are just listing [snip] out of their [snip], that looks nice on paper but doesn't translate so well in application. Don't ask the opinion of a stubborn magicka DK, that class/style combo is so bad that they've lost the right to make any judgement on balance until their style somehow gets saved by ZOS, a Skeever could wreck a magicka DK.

Pretty sure that is what highlights the imbalance in the game as people playing nerfed classes know exactly what needs to be changed. Not the opposite. I play every class too so it's even more obvious. I don't believe in nerfs, I believe in bringing up other class builds to par with everything else.

Not at all.

NB is strong right now by chance, because other classes have been weakened over time by blind blankets nerfs. The three biggest hits to NB in 1.7 were damage reduction, healing and dodge. But all of those hurt other classes as well, and for other classes that additionally used block more or shields more, it's worse. Not to mention that post 1.7 mobility became huge, hurting magicka builds worse than stamina (due to snares and gap closers). Stamina builds have almost always excelled at mobility (largely post 1.6).

But NB will always be sub-par (or at least harder to play) to other classes at their prime, a good example of that currently is stamina NB versus magicka Sorc. Both are compelling options for top tier class atm, but Sorc should come out on top between the two most if not all of the time.

I play my stamina NB more than my magicka NB, not because his 500 magicka regen versus 1.4K regen makes for emergent cloaking. But because when I'm getting snare and root spammed, I can dodge roll more and not bother with cloak. Ironic considering my magicka NB can cloak infinitely, so scary on paper, so useless in application.

Oh I understand, NB was my first class before it was even "good". I only stopped playing it recently because there really isn't a level playing field in the Meta atm. They are NOT op. Just better in the current state of the game. When other classes are brought up to par (nerf sorc! lol) their skill cap will come back into play. I'm just saying when you play a currently gimped class at the moment, you can point out exactly every single thing that needs to be addressed to help you compete. And i totally agree on playing stam NB over my Magicka NB. Shuffle->Dodge Roll->Cloak is better utility than perma cloak imo. But only stam NBs have access to it...ALONG with their top dps.

kadar

This thread and other like it are silly. People make gross generalizations about abilities they only sort of understand. Don't understand the difference between the capabilities of a Magicka and a Stamina NB. Make epic statements like "class broken, nerf please" because I played against one once, and the NB killed me.

What I've found is that Cloak (either morph) is extremely strong in IC because of the sheer amount of obstacles, line-of-sight opportunities, and NPC mobs.

In open world Cyrodiil? It's a valuable tool. But in a Meta where every Stamina based Character is running Steel Tornado or Bombard, and every Magicka build is Prox Det-ing, Cloak is "broken-OP?" LOL, ok.

Saying the Nightblade class is broken because Cloak/invisibility/stealth-buffs, is like saying DKs are broken because mitigation, or Templars are broken because healing...
I got hit with a 15k Overload yesterday, are Sorcs broke? No.

caeliusstarbreaker

I have never gotten a nb over level 37.
I have never played a sorc in pvp above v6
70% of my playtime has been templar dps (mostly stam DC)
Remainder has been DK..

So from a purely outsider perspective, nb has a lot of things going for it. Quick straight forward dmg, a very nice CC, the ability to go invis, tools for redirection and confusion.... But the main reason nb is broken is the cammo hunter cheese and, a seemingly apparent disregard for resource management do to their dps output. Compounded by the lack of a minimum distance for a gap closer which exacerbates the current gap closer issues in the game.

Where all this works in favor of every other player is it leaves these cookie cutterblades really vulnerable in receiving incoming dmg because they lean so much on their burst that they are often about as good as a sheet of toilet paper stopping a freight train.

Nb is my most killed as well as my most killed by class, and there aren't many nb's out there I fear... In fact I can probably on count on one hand the nb's that I really concentrate on when fighting.

Nb could definitely use a slight toning down, they are definitely counterable as is. I will say their class skills and passives synergies so well together.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents.

Lava_Croft

It would help the game a lot more if people would just be honest and admit that Nightblades now are the Dragon Knights of 2014. There's a reason all the tryhards and scrubs run Nightblades these days.

LBxFinalDeath

In my opinion I'd say Nightblade performs as intended, its meant to dominate if it catches people with their buffs not up.

Its what it was designed to do, if they have their buffs up it becomes a struggle for the NB.

For example....a fully buffed DK spamming talons and flame whip is near unkillable for a NB....while if the NB is lurking around and the DK has no buffs up the NB has the potential to insta-drop the DK.

I'd say thats balance tbh.

More people are running Nightblades these days because of how easy it is to catch people off guard.

Its not a fault of the class, its human error for not having your buffs up at all times.

if a NB sees a DK on horseback with spikes on his back they won't attempt a gank, trust me.

Once you understand this it becomes a L2P issue.

Septimus_Magna

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It would help the game a lot more if people would just be honest and admit that Nightblades now are the Dragon Knights of 2014. There's a reason all the tryhards and scrubs run Nightblades these days.

Only if they're played by decent skilled players.

Most NBs die so easily that I get the "kill 20 Enemy Nightblades" quest almost as fast as kill enemy players.

iosis13

I played every class and imo Nightblades are not OP since they are pretty easy to counter with an aoe to bring them out of cloak.
The only class which performs better than it should be are sorcs.
Since there are Sorcs like Legendary Shey and Master Kain, nearly every Smurf on EU Server plays their Build in PvP.
I dont know how many times they 1vX'ed our team of fully geared v16 charakters (l2p trololol).
These shieldstacking sorcs are way more powerful in endgame than NBs.

Alferino

Stamblades hitting 10k supprise attacks

Balanced...