BlackWater Blade damage

mcurley

Drakilian wrote: »

So you end up with an inherently unfair fight. Vet players should never be able to fight new players. The obvious solution would be to lock vet players out of non-vet campaigns entirely, but that would suck for vet players who don't like vet PvP. The next available solution would therefore be to make the level and quality of equipment unimportant. I liked Orsinium's patch a lot because it gave me so much more build versatility but I also have a lot of sympathy for new players coming into this system. Level and quality of equipment mattering is just another thing that gives people with an unfair advantage even more of an unfair advantage, and costs new players to the game far too much gold to keep their characters effective. Sure, have set bonuses and traits if you really want to, and let the way attributes are arranged change your skill values, and let passives and skills have a tangible effect on your character, but don't make how much money you spend on your equipment give you any sort of advantage against poorer players. That's just not fair.

I 100% agree with this. I even made a post about my concern about quality of gear before the Battle Leveling changed happened... post 19 of this thread.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/220900/battle-leveling-suggestions

Sadly quality was not ignored so now we have the CP vs quality debate.

@IxSTALKERxI : If you could post a few things we could really settle this debate.

1) same pics w/o emp
2) same pics w/o emp in white armor
3) same pics w/o emp or CPs active (same armor)
4) same pics w/o emp or CPs in white armor

It's a bit of work and you probably don't care but if you've got spare time it'd be pretty helpful. I'd do it myself if I could afford anything better than blue armor and purple weapons... plus I only have 90 CP compared to your nearly 500.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

what should happen is this

1) all toons get a set amount of champ points-- no matter what they really are
a. or none

2) everyone enters BWB naked.
a. provide pvp vendors that sell all sets of ESO armor.

b. green sets are free; but purple and yellow will cost AP per peice

if u leave BWB your gear is stripped off and placed in your PVP bank for future access.

this will level the playing field so there is no wondering

'WTH does my wrecking blow hit for 2k while im getting hit be wrecking blow for 8k?'

The one thing I do admire about ESO pvp is that there is SKILL involved, which is largely real life physical dexterity and the ability to manipulate your movement via mouse and keyboard commands.

However, if you take 2 people who have the exact same skill set and gear, but one has green armor and one has purple armor-- you simply will not win because you will hit a lot less than you are getting hit in return.

IxSTALKERxI

Yasha wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Those stats are both as emperor. Champion points do add a percentage to your stats, but people need to remember the majority of your stats comes from the gear. Gear is very important in bwb with the new battle-lvling. Removing champion points won't stop people from stacking 4000 weapon damage and killing people with 2 wrecking blows.

What would your health on the Templar be without the emperor buff? I am a bit confused about exactly what buffs the emp gets now because I think they were changed a while ago. Do you still get 100% health buff?

Update 1.6 nerfed emperor bonuses to 75% from 100% with the introduction of champion system.

Without emperor that build will be around 65k health.

The way it works is all the flat bonuses get added up ( attributes , enchants, food, health bonuses from gear, mundus stone) which come to around 52,000 base health.

Then you add up all the % bonuses.
Imperial -12%
structured entropy -8%
Armor master -5%
2 piece heavy armor -2%
Alliance emp bonus -10%
alyed well -10%
Warhorn -10%
Emp bonus -75%
= 132%

52,000 x 2.32 = 120k health

(On my phone doing it off the top of my head so not 100% accurate but you get the idea)


EDIT: actually that is isn't adding up right lol I think I did something wrong, I think a couple of those may be applied in a different order. Can't remember off the top of my head.)

Yasha

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Those stats are both as emperor. Champion points do add a percentage to your stats, but people need to remember the majority of your stats comes from the gear. Gear is very important in bwb with the new battle-lvling. Removing champion points won't stop people from stacking 4000 weapon damage and killing people with 2 wrecking blows.

What would your health on the Templar be without the emperor buff? I am a bit confused about exactly what buffs the emp gets now because I think they were changed a while ago. Do you still get 100% health buff?

Update 1.6 nerfed emperor bonuses to 75% from 100% with the introduction of champion system.

Without emperor that build will be around 65k health.

The way it works is all the flat bonuses get added up ( attributes , enchants, food, health bonuses from gear, mundus stone) which come to around 52,000 base health.

Then you add up all the % bonuses.
Imperial -12%
structured entropy -8%
Armor master -5%
2 piece heavy armor -2%
Alliance emp bonus -10%
alyed well -10%
Warhorn -10%
Emp bonus -75%
= 132%

52,000 x 2.32 = 120k health

(On my phone doing it off the top of my head so not 100% accurate but you get the idea)


EDIT: actually that is isn't adding up right lol I think I did something wrong, I think a couple of those may be applied in a different order. Can't remember off the top of my head.)

Thanks for the info, that is really helpful. Seems like quite a strong build even without emp, and basically a demi-god with it.

Considering you obviously have the money and motivation to get yourself the best equipment and have a lot of CP, how would you feel if there was a campaign where there was no CP and the level and quality of equipment didn't matter? Would you feel kind of ripped off/upset since you have spent so much time and possibly money on the game?

IxSTALKERxI

Yasha wrote: »

Considering you obviously have the money and motivation to get yourself the best equipment and have a lot of CP, how would you feel if there was a campaign where there was no CP and the level and quality of equipment didn't matter? Would you feel kind of ripped off/upset since you have spent so much time and possibly money on the game?

If it was just one campaign then that'd be fine. So long as I still had other campaigns to play in where gear & CP mattered. Honestly because I have spent so much time on the game, I'm bored and the lag in vet pvp doesn't really help. If such a campaign existed I would play in it for a bit just for something different, but then I'd probably get bored of that too after awhile. The only reason I've spent a heap of gold on lowbie gear is because I'm trying to keep myself interested in a game that is laggy, has a multitude of problems (balance problems isn't isolated to bwb, it is in vet to) and is going in the wrong direction... No ETA on when they will reach the wrong direction though.

Fellenore_Ewalion

I remember the first time I entered Cyro, at my first encounter I was dead in seconds. But I took up the challange and now I can beat "120 CP players" in 1v1 with no CP. Still, BwB is not for the softhearted beginners, and groups led by and consisted of seasoned players can obliterate an entire faction which cannot come up with enough or properly organized gosus.

The problem is that we actually have a plenty of newcomers, but they simply refuse to learn sooooo many times! The repeating defeats ruin not just their game experience but ours too. Speaking of EP faction, sometimes it's impossible to get the men in line for a charge. Regroup on crown command? How sweet not to obey! The last time I played a few days ago I accompanied a 20+ group and we've been defeated at a keep with like 4 (!!!) skillful defenders. They draw half of the team to the main gate, where the rookies were slaughtered by the guards. Then we stormed the oiled breach - basically one by one. And this is the everyday reality.

I am more upset about the crossfaction gankers, they can access the content of every alliances' zone chat via the guild chats, and so they prey on the noob players.

Drakilian

Trust me: no one gives a crap about the zone chat of any faction.

cschwingeb14_ESO

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Gear is very important in bwb with the new battle-lvling. Removing champion points won't stop people from stacking 4000 weapon damage and killing people with 2 wrecking blows.

Gear is important, and its good that that is the case. It prepares people for vet

Removal of CP will be a gigantic change. 501 CP will drop physical damage by 40% at least:

-25% mighty
-12% crit chance
-15% crit damage
-20% stamina (or more, if people have to move stats to health)

And then there's the different sets/abilities that people will have to wear if they want any kind of stam/magicka sustain with the removal of thief passives.

It's easy enough to spend 3k gold and see what's going to happen to your build with no CP. Things are going to be very different

Drakilian

"-25% mighty
-12% crit chance
-15% crit damage
-20% stamina (or more, if people have to move stats to health)"

It's the pseudo-nightblade nerf we all really knew we wanted.