BlackWater Blade damage

Tal_72 · January 2016

It hardly matters. New people lack both. And even is gear is the greater impact, CP still has a significant impact.

From Blackwater to Azura's Star, the power differential between the best and worst geared / CP-maxed is hard too broad. It's unfortunate that ESO dev team missed some of the key struggles and lessons learned from previous MMOs.

leem1988 · January 2016

Does anyone know when CP's will be removed from BWB? I want to know before I start grinding for them.

PhatGrimReaper · January 2016

Ahhhh.... we have finally arrived at the core of the issue.... QQ.

Why should someone that has played the game longer, paid more subs(yes, subs are a thing), achieved more & amassed the materials/wealth for better gear have any kind of advantage..... whine, whine, cry, cry.

People who have a lot of CP and gear didn't have it just handed to them. They put in the time to attain both. Everyone that plays this game has the same opportunity to have these things. There are those who work hard to get it and there are those who about not being given it.

The Entitlement is strong with this one!!!

Tal_72 · January 2016

Thinking new players shouldn't take 25K damage in 2 seconds has nothing to do with entitlement. As I said, scaling is the issue---I know it's a difficult concept for you somebody like you to comprehend, but the less you run off new players, the more $ the game makes. The more $ the game makes, the more upgrades, releases, bug fixes, and support the game gets.

Alucardo · January 2016

leem1988 wrote: »

Does anyone know when CP's will be removed from BWB? I want to know before I start grinding for them.

Thieves guild I think

Rikumaru · January 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Invest in level appropriate Willpower/Agility & Purple gear

....... you're welcome

It is absurd you're telling me to buy Purple gear while I'm leveling to play in the below lvl 50 campaign. I'd hazard to guess most people will just quit.

Do you even know what this thread is about? Refer to post 23 and most other posts in this thread.

Yeah, what they suggested is just overboard. I'd recommend blue gear and purple weapons at the very least though.
You can also get away with crafting armour every 4-6 levels (6 being the absolute maximum!), but I'd upgrade my weapons every 2 levels. The DPS difference is just too noticeable to leave it to chance.

I find that you can get away with updating your gear every 10 levels with blue gear tbh. While you do lose out on alot of wep dmg, most of it is from the first 3 levels. From levels 6-10 its not a huge difference.

Alcast · January 2016

I started playing in BwB with 0 CP...I hit like a super wet noodle and took crazy dmg in my face.....lucky soon we will get a no CP Campaign, it must be really frustrating for new people in that campaign if they get wrecked by more experienced and 501 CP guys all the time.

Alcast · January 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

No, I didn't ask that at all. The post was about taking 25K damage in about 2 seconds from an enemy player. It has to do with the gear-gap and CP-gap new players are experience facing alts of VR players--and when the new players try out PVP for the first time, they just get ROFLstomped. While the alt twinks get their jollies smashing newbies, it's bad for the overall game.

Gear makes a bigger difference than CP.... trust this

Not if you have 0 cp vs 501 cp

Yasha · January 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Ahhhh.... we have finally arrived at the core of the issue.... QQ.

Why should someone that has played the game longer, paid more subs(yes, subs are a thing), achieved more & amassed the materials/wealth for better gear have any kind of advantage..... whine, whine, cry, cry.

People who have a lot of CP and gear didn't have it just handed to them. They put in the time to attain both. Everyone that plays this game has the same opportunity to have these things. There are those who work hard to get it and there are those who about not being given it.

There is the VET campaign for people who like pvp based on gear rather than skill. There used to be a non-Vet campaign for new players and for those that enjoyed a more skill based version of pvp. Now there is no avenue for relatively normalized pvp, and the situation is even worse for players in BwB because they have to maintain purple gear every few levels and have CP to be competitive.

Poxheart · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

I started playing in BwB with 0 CP...I hit like a super wet noodle and took crazy dmg in my face.....lucky soon we will get a no CP Campaign, it must be really frustrating for new people in that campaign if they get wrecked by more experienced and 501 CP guys all the time.

You know as well as I do that when ZoS enacts this campaign they will screw something up so that it isn't worth playing.

Angus · January 2016

Yasha wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Ahhhh.... we have finally arrived at the core of the issue.... QQ.

Why should someone that has played the game longer, paid more subs(yes, subs are a thing), achieved more & amassed the materials/wealth for better gear have any kind of advantage..... whine, whine, cry, cry.

People who have a lot of CP and gear didn't have it just handed to them. They put in the time to attain both. Everyone that plays this game has the same opportunity to have these things. There are those who work hard to get it and there are those who about not being given it.

There is the VET campaign for people who like pvp based on gear rather than skill. There used to be a non-Vet campaign for new players and for those that enjoyed a more skill based version of pvp. Now there is no avenue for relatively normalized pvp, and the situation is even worse for players in BwB because they have to maintain purple gear every few levels and have CP to be competitive.

I'm looking forward to CPs being gone, but..

You don't sound like you played non-vet. The non-vet I played in (for 1.5 yrs), before CP and then the Orsinium change, was more like this:

Vet players, rolling nonvets, with purple/gold gear and access to sets almost no new players would have (lvl 20 warlock etc.)
High end jewelry, with purple/gold glyphs.
High end food.
Excellent knowledge of how to combine skills for massive stat inflation.
Excellent knowledge of the extremely un-intuitive system by which stats and bonuses were applied or not applied with battle scaling (this part especially was pretty arcane to new players),
Said knowledge of combining skills could be used with the weird normalized BwB stat pools, leading to (some really fun) very OP hybrid-ish builds the game was never balanced for or around.

So now, it's basically the same thing, just

Way more expensive to maintain cheesy OP gear, and
Some old OP sets (like warlock) become obsolete quickly instead of being OP until v1.
CP's give some players +5% here, +5% there to their stats. These are underwhelming, for most players, as most are not even close to 501 CP. They're a nice scapegoat for whiners, though, and serve to get entitled children who think they deserve to win by birthright out the game quicker.
I can't faceroll pug groups with silly builds exploiting stat/regen imbalances.

Yasha · January 2016

Angus wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Ahhhh.... we have finally arrived at the core of the issue.... QQ.

Why should someone that has played the game longer, paid more subs(yes, subs are a thing), achieved more & amassed the materials/wealth for better gear have any kind of advantage..... whine, whine, cry, cry.

People who have a lot of CP and gear didn't have it just handed to them. They put in the time to attain both. Everyone that plays this game has the same opportunity to have these things. There are those who work hard to get it and there are those who about not being given it.

There is the VET campaign for people who like pvp based on gear rather than skill. There used to be a non-Vet campaign for new players and for those that enjoyed a more skill based version of pvp. Now there is no avenue for relatively normalized pvp, and the situation is even worse for players in BwB because they have to maintain purple gear every few levels and have CP to be competitive.

I'm looking forward to CPs being gone, but..

You don't sound like you played non-vet. The non-vet I played in (for 1.5 yrs), before CP and then the Orsinium change, was more like this:
Vet players, rolling nonvets, with purple/gold gear and access to sets almost no new players would have (lvl 20 warlock etc.)

High end jewelry, with purple/gold glyphs.

High end food.

Excellent knowledge of how to combine skills for massive stat inflation.

Excellent knowledge of the extremely un-intuitive system by which stats and bonuses were applied or not applied with battle scaling (this part especially was pretty arcane to new players),

Said knowledge of combining skills could be used with the weird normalized BwB stat pools, leading to (some really fun) very OP hybrid-ish builds the game was never balanced for or around.

So now, it's basically the same thing, just
Way more expensive to maintain cheesy OP gear, and

Some old OP sets (like warlock) become obsolete quickly instead of being OP until v1.

CP's give some players +5% here, +5% there to their stats. These are underwhelming, for most players, as most are not even close to 501 CP. They're a nice scapegoat for whiners, though, and serve to get entitled children who think they deserve to win by birthright out the game quicker.

I can't faceroll pug groups with silly builds exploiting stat/regen imbalances.

Of course I did play, I have threads dedicated to describing how the BwB system used to work (because there was no information about it in game).

Its totally not the same thing, that is just laughable. Gear now makes a huge difference, before basically only items that gave a % boost to a stat worked, or regen. I never got hit by 15K wrecking blows and the like, and there was never a massive difference between my spell damage/mitigation and that of other players. The biggest differences came in the form of sustain and level (more powerful abilities). Now a light attack by an over-geared/CP'd toon can do as much damage as my burst. Htf is that anywhere near "basically the same".

In the previous BwB I could be competitive in level one gear, and if I tried I could tweak my set up and get an edge, but it didn't require me to get purple gear every few levels (only had to make it once), in fact purple gear didn't even make that much of a difference. Not even sure why you go on about warlocks anyway, all it gave in BwB in the past was extra magika every minute and extra regen, the sets now make a massive difference because all stats are boosted- making it even harder for any newer player to get into it.

I don't even think the previous system was ideal, but it sure was a lot better than the tweakville we have now.

Lylith · January 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

it is rather simple you have some highly equiped twinks slotting gold equip on every slot equal to their lvl and you have newbees running around in greengear 5-10 lvl below their char lvl...

It is so pathetic when people feel they have to go gold for non-vet even just one piece.

unless you happen to be given a worthwhile weapon or set piece via 'rewards for the worthy.' <shrug>

what's the harm?

as for crafting gear, re-do my setup every 10 levels or so (blue/purple) beginning at level 16.

seems to suffice, for the most part.

mcurley · January 2016

Yasha wrote: »

There is the VET campaign for people who like pvp based on gear rather than skill. There used to be a non-Vet campaign for new players and for those that enjoyed a more skill based version of pvp. Now there is no avenue for relatively normalized pvp, and the situation is even worse for players in BwB because they have to maintain purple gear every few levels and have CP to be competitive.

Will you please stop spreading this ridiculous lie.

People, you DO NOT need purple gear every few levels to be competitive in any way, shape, or form.

Anyone who goes to a few guild traders and picks up a set or 2 to complement their build can be competitive in green armor.
By competitive I don't mean that they will be able to 1vX, but that they will be able to effectively contribute to any fight they engage in. Said sets will cost maybe a few thousand gold, but you will make that back just from RftW by fighting in Cyrodiil for the 6 or so levels until you want to upgrade your armor once again... so you don't need to be rich to do this.

You can even be an effective ganker in green vendor-bought armor... I've done this on my magicka NB and it worked very well. If you are complaining about someone doing 25k damage (killing you) before you have a chance to defend yourself then that is 100% your fault. You are either riding alone and depleting your horses stamina (the knockdown animation is plenty of time for a competent ganker to get anyone within execute range) or you are just plain not paying enough attention.

No quality of gear or amount of CPs will make a bad player good.

You could give a group of "rookies" CP-capped accounts with all gold quality gear and they will still wipe to a similarly sized group of "veterans" who are wearing white quality gear and have 0 CPs... why? Because skill and knowledge of the game mechanics is the most important aspect of the battles in BWB (assuming relatively even numbers for each alliance in the fight).

When I first entered BWB I got face-rolled time and time again. I didn't just quit because it was unfair... I kept at it and learned what others were doing that I wasn't. It takes time to be successful, there is no way around that.

Anyone who comes to any game as a "rookie" should have it in their mind that there will be players who are much much better than they are. The point is to learn from these players... not to complain about them being stronger.

As far as saying the old version was more balanced or "normalized"... there were just as many "OP" heros running around BWB back in the day as there are running around now. Not more, not less... if you played in BWB with both forms of Battle Leveling then you should know this.

Angus · January 2016

<rant>

Yasha wrote: »

Of course I did play, I have threads dedicated to describing how the BwB [gear] system used to work (because there was no information about it in game).

...

Gear now makes a huge difference, before basically only items that gave a % boost to a stat worked, or regen.

Hmm, so it was negligible back then... but you took the time to learn the details, then have multiple forum threads dedicated to it?

How sure are you that your knowledge didn't contribute to the outcomes of your "more skill based version" of "relatively normalized pvp"?

For the record, there was a huge difference before too, except it relied on
1) choosing gear carefully for a battle scaling system so enigmatic you actually had to make forum threads dedicated to it, and
2) exploiting unintuitive, inflated, artificial battle-level stat pools through mechanics very specific to this game which no new player would know (block cost, block amount, dodge cost, heavy attack regen, weapon skills vs. class skills, how effects stacked before the major/minor buff normalization was added, etc.),
3) the unintuitive way spell & weapon crit and damage affected different weapon abilities and skills,
4) how certain skills & passives applied and/or stacked (or didn't) with battle levels,
5) taking advantage of a meta focused on sustain from gear/passives over damage stacking.

Yasha wrote: »

There used to be a non-Vet campaign for new players and for those that enjoyed a more skill based version of pvp.

Sure, impressive "skill", nice play on words. I guess that means my...

(self-paid) half-decent gaming rig and fiber-optic internet,
system for researching traits,
managing crafting materials,
making my gear,
managing several guild stores for cashflow to buy uncraftable set items, potion mats, and glyphs,
and social skills to obtain other necessary items/knowledge from other players

...are "skill" too, then. That way, I can stroke my ego and call it a fair fight with the new player on a bad connection with a screaming kid in the background (on a computer that can barely render Cyrodiil) that just lost to me, right?

At least now a new player has a shot at being moderately competitive through the current, intuitive system of your gear, CPs, and skills doing what they actually say they will do.

Yasha wrote: »

In the previous BwB I could be competitive in level one gear...

Killing new/unskilled players with level one gear is still very viable.

You weren't consistently winning duels against equally matched opponents in level one gear, unless they also had level one gear (math > egotistical anecdotes).

Or did you mean something else by "competitive"? Anyone can run nude in the zerg on day one and "compete".

Yasha wrote: »

...if I tried I could tweak my set up and get an edge, but it didn't require me to get purple gear every few levels (only had to make it once), in fact purple gear didn't even make that much of a difference.

Right - the edge didn't come so much from the color purple on your gear. The edge came from other things much more inaccessible to a new player.

Before there was no tradeoff. At least now it costs a pretty penny to maintain high stats, so there's some tradeoff.

Yasha wrote: »

there was never a massive difference between my spell damage/mitigation and that of other players.

Today: it's a familiar tradeoff between DPS, heals, or mitigation to be competitive.

Back then: has advantages of magicka/stamina heals/DPS/sustain from light/med armor, while having same amount of armor as guy in heavy armor, while having 100% damage shield uptime. New guy has no idea what he's actually working with or fighting against.

Either way, the new guy is going to lose. Can you imagine the forum QQ if he won? They can't make a MMO that allows that, for obvious reasons. There's always games like Call of Duty where you can walk in and win on day one, though - we'd all prefer if certain entitled personality types just stuck to those, they're a good fit.

Yasha wrote: »

The biggest differences came in the form of sustain...

Not even sure why you go on about warlocks anyway, all it gave in BwB in the past was extra magika every minute and extra regen...

Answered your own derisive question?

Regardless, warlock wasn't the only set.

Yasha wrote: »

...the sets now make a massive difference because all stats are boosted- making it even harder for any newer player to get into it.

I recall new players (myself included) having a hard time getting "into it" when they blow their entire bank account on glyphs, rings, and choose skills that don't work as expected because of wonky battle leveling.

While fighting players with insider knowledge like you, who then gloat over their "skill".

Yasha wrote: »

I don't even think the previous system was ideal, but it sure was a lot better than the tweakville we have now.

I agree the previous system wasn't ideal. I agree that this system isn't ideal. I consider this system more ideal, and consider a if-it-ain't-too-broke-don't-fix-it approach to be wise.

It doesn't take too long for a new player to become a respectable citizen of Tweakville, either. A few weeks, maybe, for CPs? Money for gear could be had in less than a day or two. But they'll still lose. Some will QQ, and some will have fun figuring out how they can win.

mcurley wrote: »

When I first entered BWB I got face-rolled time and time again. I didn't just quit because it was unfair... I kept at it and learned what others were doing that I wasn't. It takes time to be successful, there is no way around that.
...

As far as saying the old version was more balanced or "normalized"... there were just as many "OP" heros running around BWB back in the day as there are running around now. Not more, not less... if you played in BWB with both forms of Battle Leveling then you should know this.

This guy knows what he's talking about, and is the type that keeps a PvP game alive. Not someone who quits because they don't want to try.

Although IMHO, there's less OP heroes running around today because of how some hybrid mechanics changed and nerfs to gameplay styles. At least the OP heroes die when they should now.

</rant>

Really, just want to see new players come into the game, have fun, and then have more fun as they learn - not be turned away by misinformation. It's a damn fun game if you've got a little spirit.

cschwingeb14_ESO · January 2016

CP needs to go, it is unfair to new players, and they have no way to earn it in BWB

But I see people talking about the cost of staying competitive in purples, and on PC, the cost of a purple weapon every 2 levels from 20-48 is laughably low, even for a blacksmith one. 50k total, for weapons your entire BWB career. For wood it's 1/2 that. Assuming you collect the material (easy), buy tempers (most of the cost) and hire someone to craft (100-500 each)

Someone can collect and sell ores for a couple hours and come up with that kind of money.

And we need to train players that gear matters, because it does at end game. With the old scaling system, there were posts just about daily from players wondering why they were getting trucked in vet, when at 49 they were doing fine... In L20 greens.

Gold weapons? Yes, the super rich get 200 extra spell/weapon damage. At the cost of 60k each weapon, every 2 levels. Is that really worth changing the entire time system?

Tal_72 · January 2016

You all can write 500 word diatribes on why things are fine, but the bottom line is I'm tired of doing crap damage and getting 2 shot (one instance of which was demonstrated by my screenshot before). Whatever the root cause--gear, CPs, scaling design, all of the above--I'm done for now. I'll try the game again later. Cheers.

Angus · January 2016

Tal_72 wrote: »

You all can write 500 word diatribes on why things are fine, but the bottom line is I'm tired of doing crap damage and getting 2 shot (one instance of which was demonstrated by my screenshot before). Whatever the root cause--gear, CPs, scaling design, all of the above--I'm done for now. I'll try the game again later. Cheers.

Some of those "500 word diatribes" tell you how to not do crap damage, and not get 2-shot. After all, the two-shotters had to learn somehow. Just sayin...

PhatGrimReaper · January 2016

Angus wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

You all can write 500 word diatribes on why things are fine, but the bottom line is I'm tired of doing crap damage and getting 2 shot (one instance of which was demonstrated by my screenshot before). Whatever the root cause--gear, CPs, scaling design, all of the above--I'm done for now. I'll try the game again later. Cheers.

Some of those "500 word diatribes" tell you how to not do crap damage, and not get 2-shot. After all, the two-shotters had to learn somehow. Just sayin...

*Just fell in forum love*

#politest L2P in history

too much LOL.... my sides hurt....

Tal_72 · January 2016

I've played MMOs since DAOC, I think I know how to play. Please reference the part where you talked about avoiding 25K damage in 2 seconds. Which set bonus is that?

Valen_Byte · January 2016

Angus wrote: »

Tal_72 wrote: »

You all can write 500 word diatribes on why things are fine, but the bottom line is I'm tired of doing crap damage and getting 2 shot (one instance of which was demonstrated by my screenshot before). Whatever the root cause--gear, CPs, scaling design, all of the above--I'm done for now. I'll try the game again later. Cheers.

Some of those "500 word diatribes" tell you how to not do crap damage, and not get 2-shot. After all, the two-shotters had to learn somehow. Just sayin...

Your bloated egotistical vocabulary is more confusing than trying to figure the mechanics of BwB lol Ive decided that you just like to read your own writing. lol I might agree with you on some things if you could communicate clearly lol.....

P.S. That part at the end of your last post...'IMHO'....ya thats the best part lol.....you know that the 'H' stands for humble right? IMO...fits you better.

Angus · January 2016

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Your bloated egotistical vocabulary is more confusing than trying to figure the mechanics of BwB lol Ive decided that you just like to read your own writing. lol I might agree with you on some things if you could communicate clearly lol.....

Perhaps you'd find it more readable if I went back to remove some punctuation and grammar, peppered it with "lol"s, and misused some words that sound big to me?

Valen_Byte wrote: »

P.S. That part at the end of your last post...'IMHO'....ya thats the best part lol.....you know that the 'H' stands for humble right? IMO...fits you better.

My opinion is humble, possibly wrong, but certainly well-informed; regardless of your opinion.

Valen_Byte · January 2016

Angus wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Your bloated egotistical vocabulary is more confusing than trying to figure the mechanics of BwB lol Ive decided that you just like to read your own writing. lol I might agree with you on some things if you could communicate clearly lol.....

Perhaps you'd find it more readable if I went back to remove some punctuation and grammar, peppered it with "lol"s, and misused some words that sound big to me?

Valen_Byte wrote: »

P.S. That part at the end of your last post...'IMHO'....ya thats the best part lol.....you know that the 'H' stands for humble right? IMO...fits you better.

My opinion is humble, possibly wrong, but certainly well-informed; regardless of your opinion.

Your last statement here, was almost humble. Then you ruined it with your ego again.

QuebraRegra · January 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Ahhhh.... we have finally arrived at the core of the issue.... QQ.

Why should someone that has played the game longer, paid more subs(yes, subs are a thing), achieved more & amassed the materials/wealth for better gear have any kind of advantage..... whine, whine, cry, cry.

People who have a lot of CP and gear didn't have it just handed to them. They put in the time to attain both. Everyone that plays this game has the same opportunity to have these things. There are those who work hard to get it and there are those who about not being given it.

The Entitlement is strong with this one!!!

Then GTFO of the non-vet campaign with yer epeen.

Oh so yer not good enuff to play with the other vets?

Angus · January 2016

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Your last statement here, was almost humble. Then you ruined it with your ego again.

Showing up to a PvP forum without your ego is like showing up to a costume party without your costume. Or clothes.

PhatGrimReaper · January 2016

QuebraRegra wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Ahhhh.... we have finally arrived at the core of the issue.... QQ.

Why should someone that has played the game longer, paid more subs(yes, subs are a thing), achieved more & amassed the materials/wealth for better gear have any kind of advantage..... whine, whine, cry, cry.

People who have a lot of CP and gear didn't have it just handed to them. They put in the time to attain both. Everyone that plays this game has the same opportunity to have these things. There are those who work hard to get it and there are those who about not being given it.

The Entitlement is strong with this one!!!

Then GTFO of the non-vet campaign with yer epeen.

Oh so yer not good enuff to play with the other vets?

Salt Mine detected..... Harvest in progress

Tal_72 · January 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Salt Mine detected..... Harvest in progress

Ad hominem - is that all you got, bro? RÀGE is so fitting for you.

PhatGrimReaper · January 2016

Tal_72 wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Salt Mine detected..... Harvest in progress

Ad hominem - is that all you got, bro? RÀGE is so fitting for you.

The irony of someone insinuating I am incapable of Vet PVP and then you using the guild name RAGE to back him is just toooo good.

One thing is clear.... you aren't PC/NA

Yasha · January 2016

mcurley wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

There is the VET campaign for people who like pvp based on gear rather than skill. There used to be a non-Vet campaign for new players and for those that enjoyed a more skill based version of pvp. Now there is no avenue for relatively normalized pvp, and the situation is even worse for players in BwB because they have to maintain purple gear every few levels and have CP to be competitive.

Will you please stop spreading this ridiculous lie.

As far as saying the old version was more balanced or "normalized"... there were just as many "OP" heros running around BWB back in the day as there are running around now. Not more, not less... if you played in BWB with both forms of Battle Leveling then you should know this.

I could say the same for your comments. Please post you vids of your undergeared toon pawning 5vs1, or even standing up to a well geared player.

Some players can now hit me with a light attack for the same damage as my "nukes" hit them for. This was impossible in the old system of BwB, because damage was basically normalized. I never got hit for 15K wrecking blows or dragon leaps- which is now something that happens quite regularly. I was able to be competitive even in level one gear. It was a much more skill based game back then and MUCH easier and more friendly for new players.

Yasha · January 2016

Angus wrote: »

<rant>

Really, just want to see new players come into the game, have fun, and then have more fun as they learn - not be turned away by misinformation. It's a damn fun game if you've got a little spirit.

It is not fun if you are doing barely any damage and the players you are fighting are doing massive damage, and basically the only way for you to do a similar level of damage is to level a toon to V16, get lots of CP and money, and then go back to the non-Vet campaign and make a tweaked out toon with OP gear to wreck the face of new players.

The way the system currently works in BwB is terribly flawed and presents an extreme barrier for new players to have fun, and is disappointing for players who previously were able to enjoy BwB as the only place in ESO where pvp was somewhat normalized and therefore more dependant on skill than on having the best gear.

What it makes people think is "Why do I even bother playing this".