Upcoming Class Rebalance

Rune_Relic

IMHO
Its impossible to gauge how well any class or skill is working with Lag the way it is.
So although I welcome major rebalance/rationalisation....it has to be deferred to stage 2 of fixing PVP.

In Epsiode 30 of ESO live.... @ZOS_BrianWheeler has already used his whiteboard to describe the changing of skills from area based to group only based.
Although this is being done thoroughly one skill at a time... overall it should have a massive impact on the number of players that can/will be targeted by any skill (in high player density lag situations)....the number of target clients updates that have to be processed by the server at any time (reducing server load / latency)...the number of network packets that have to be pumped out from ZOS to all the targeted players at any time (reducing network load / latency).

For the 1st time ever.... I am actually really positive about the future of PVP in the next few months.
But the impact of each skill will be changing as the skill is moved from area to group only selection. With regard both primary and secondary effects.

TL;DR
So ....no point fixing skills which are being changed at this very moment...and there impact modified

Jade1986

Pretty much ALL of dks abilities need reworking. And the 2 handed tree needs a serious overhaul.

Tankqull

laced wrote: »

Pretty much ALL of dks abilities need reworking. And the 2 handed tree needs a serious overhaul.

2H is actually a prime example of a perfect tree.
a really good ae skill, a gapcloser, a spammable dps abilitiy worth to be used, a finisher and a awesome utility buff + passives worth to be skilled. what else do you want?

zornyan

Tankqull wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@blur ambush is broken atm, in a stupid way, it shouldn't lock my character and prevent me from using skills.

Had 2 nb's gank me the other day, their damage wasn't anything special, but I couldn't heal as my skill bars were locked out and my character unable to do anything, literially just ambush after ambush.

That's a broken mechanic, it would be like saying everytime I cast dark flare your NB should freeze in position and not allow you to use skills or move.

Suprise attack is also broken, it may do 68% the damage of wrecking blow, but it's insta cast.

In the time it takes to do one wrecking blow and start winding up for the next i can.

Ambush
Suprise attack
Ambush
Suprise attack

Which would with the empower bonus push suprise attacks damage up to near equal of wrecking blow, then add in major fracture for more penetration pushing it's damage past wrecking blow, then add in the 2 stuns from ambush, Nightblades should be punished (as should all) for spamming 2 skills that any moron can do.

I'm sorry but elder scrolls nightblades online needs to come to an end

that effect is provided by ANY gapcloser its not a gimmick by ambush on its own. this happens with toppling charge as well...

and the wreckingblow thing is utter nonsense.
in that time i can
WB
WB
WB
WB

because like toppling charge ambush has a small ability lockout upon its usage denying any weave in of abilitys into its casting time.

Yes but my point is to give ambush a minimum range like other gap closers, I can't spam toppling charge because once I'm close by it is out of range as such, where as an nb can just spam ambush for days. It just needs a minimum range like other gap closers

than ambush needs to be instant like the other gap closers

Lol like my toppling charge? Cause you know being stunned with no ability to use skills for several seconds is far far better.

Yeah you guys take toppling charge we'll have ambush thanks

Emma_Overload

Abob wrote: »

The truth is this:

1. NB's, both magicka and stamina, need some buffs for pvp, increase their sustain and buff cloak, it has too many counters, and it makes nb's feel underpowered against other classes. I'd say it would be optimal to add a cooldown of 1 minute after cloak has bien countered, so that it can't be countered again until the minute has passed. Also, increased damage when coming out of cloak for 20 secs (damage is too low) and increased resource regeneration while cloaked, as well as reduce cloak magicka cost by 50%.

2. Sorcs feel too underpowered too, their sustain is subpar when compared to other classes (e.g. templar) so the Best solution would be to increase regeneration per shield stacked, and to this add some more spell damage per shield stacked should be added. Some passives to increase shield strength per shield stacked would be nice too. Stamina sorcs are really weak too, increase their mobility and buff them.

3. DK's, especially stamina, are really weak nowadays, their sustain is really low and having the only ult in game scaling off physical damage makes them feel discriminated, so please just increase damage done or change it to a combination of magicka and physical damage for it to be useful. Make them have 2k stamina regen just from passives.

4. Templars passives are too OP, especially for stamina, decrease balanced warrior passive by 50%. To balance their regen, make repentance only give 5% increase regen instead of 10%. Nerf eclipse, it completely negates magicka classes. Just nerf templars in general, please.

Thank you.

Buff NBs and nerf Templars? Is this April 1st already?

NBs are by far the strongest class in PvP right now. Why do you think 95% of sewer gankers are Nightblades? The only thing these guys need more than a nerf is a BAN for griefing everybody else!

Zimm

I play everything excluding Templar, (I'm just a god awful Templar) and I have to say though I do main a Sorc so my opinion could be considered bias, rather than nerfing anything I'd like to see DK and Temp brought up to the level of NB and Sorc. DK is probably my 2nd most played class and I love the playstyle, it just seems to be lacking compared to my Sorc, or even my lowbie NB. 1v1 and 1v2 DK is rather viable but when you throw more than that at me I simply can choose to LoS and survive for a while or just take a WB spam to the face and die. Earlier this year I could find a good 1v5 on DK and come out on top, now I rarely run into players terrible enough for that to happen if I'm not playing Sorc or NB. I'd love to be able to hop on my DK and get that badass feeling when you lay waste to a small group solo like I do fairly often enough on my other classes. I'm not as good of a DK as Sribes or Lefty or anything like that but I tend to do pretty well on one in a small group or only vs a couple people. There are people who make it work but I'd like to be able to play my way, without following the meta, or copying Sribes sweet build, help me Zeni-Wan Kenobi... You're my only hope.

Dredlord

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Nerfs to damage shields, well any nerfs for that matter to any class im not on board with, not in the current state of the game with CP and such.

Damage Shields have been nerfed substantially twice in the past year and yet people are still crying about it....

Bolt Escape has been nerfed a record 7 times and folks are still crying about Sorcs....

Sorry I just can't get on board with anymore nerfs.....the changes ZOS has made already concerning nerfs have driven many people away...i rarely log anymore because of it.

The nerfs to damage shields, Bolt Escape, Dodge roll, Healing, etc have done NOTHING but promote zerg warfare...most of these changes listed in the OP will do nothing but empower zergs.

Everyone wants penalties for using any defensive skill that makes it harder to kill you.

Where are the penalties for spamming Wrecking Blow?

Where are the penalties for spamming Ambush? or any other gap close

Where the the penalties for spamming any "offensive attack" for that matter?

There are none, yet folks continually get on here and rail and demand they nerf every single defensive mechanic in the game....

This in turn has ruined the game, ESO right now is in the worst shape it has ever been in from a combat perspective, and its not because of AOE caps, its because of constant changes and nerfs to defensive skills and abilities with no inverse nerfs to spamming offensive abilities which does nothing but promote zerg warfare.

@Ezareth summed it up a few months ago, an "uninteresting combat system" is what they created with the IPC patch moving forward....

You do nothing but create a zergfest when you nerf and put restrictive penalties on defensive skills while putting no such penalties on offensive skills.

Look at Bolt Escape, if you use it twice within 4 seconds, it costs 50% more cost increase stack and keeps increasing with each cast.

Look at Critical Charge you can spam it over and over and over, it has a longer range then Bolt Escape, Costs less, Has a hidden silence and stun built in, does damage, has no cost increase penalty, and can be spammed over and over and over without penalty and we wonder why this game is a full on zergfest.

Its no secret this game went from fighting all over the map with people traveling alone or in groups of 2-3 with fights all over the place to everyone running in giant 40+ man zergs, because they have tipped the scales so far in favor of full blown offense that using any defensive measures is penalized so heavily that it makes far more sense to run with a large group of other players to offset the penalties associated with using any defensive skills....

Please understand, im not trying to be harsh, but every update they have nerfed defensive and survival skills and every update the zerg gets worse and worse to the point the game is almost unplalyable, i will be watching the next update very carefully and if its once again nothing but nerfs to defensive and survival skills with no such nerfs to offensive skills i will be finished with the game for good.

Yes they do need to make DK healing work, on top of that they need to remove these stupid penalties from Bolt Escape, Dodge rolling, and add 25% of the value back to damage sheilds...VR16 Weapons are actually the equivalent of VR20 weapons in terms of how much damage they give you ad gold value, and the nerf to shields currently is far more then what many realize. Its part of what have made DK and Templar's have such a hard time because their damage sheilds are useless under the current system, and Sorc's Ward is just barely viable as Ward is good for absorbing one Wrecking Blow before it needs recast.

if we continue down this path of nerfs to defensive skills and survival skills with no nerfs to offensive skills this game will become 100% zergfest dominated with no other playstyle viable, and thats a game I want no part in playing....and if their podcasts are any indication, then many of those streamers you listed don't want no part of playing such a game either...

So much misinformation, such a clueless post.

The best though was how crit charge caused the zergs....lol

Just don't post anymore with crap like this.

blur

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NBs are by far the strongest class in PvP right now. Why do you think 95% of sewer gankers are Nightblades? The only thing these guys need more than a nerf is a BAN for griefing everybody else!

NBs are not by far the strongest class. This smacks of serious ignorance and/or bias.

Moreover making up a random statistic (95%) doesn't help your claim. I have been ganked by more Templars and DKs than anything in the sewers. In fact I rarely see NBs as compared to the other 3 classes. This nonsense has been parroted to death since before IC was even on the PTS.

Runkorko

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Honestly Dragonknights are probably the most well balanced classes in the game (and yes I have and play both at vr16).

Mate, I hope you mean pve or just joking... if not, i feel pitty about you.

nans_biscuits

How about we all settle down and instead of nerfing things, we buff the lesser powerfull stuff? The amount of nerfing is getting ridiculous.

Also why is everyone pushing for classes to be identical? Not every class needs a gap closer, a heal, an escape or instant dps. Its what makes the classes unique, there is always going to be classes that out do other classes in a certain situation, quit trying to make every class the same.

Emma_Overload

blur wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NBs are by far the strongest class in PvP right now. Why do you think 95% of sewer gankers are Nightblades? The only thing these guys need more than a nerf is a BAN for griefing everybody else!

NBs are not by far the strongest class. This smacks of serious ignorance and/or bias.

Moreover making up a random statistic (95%) doesn't help your claim. I have been ganked by more Templars and DKs than anything in the sewers. In fact I rarely see NBs as compared to the other 3 classes. This nonsense has been parroted to death since before IC was even on the PTS.

Wrong. I spend HOURS a day in the sewers, every day. I know who's ganking me. It's very rare that I get killed by anyone but a Nightblade, especially Templars. DKs and Sorcs are out there, but they're both much more effective when they're running with a large group. NBs are the only ones who can pick and choose when they want to fight, and they have the advantage of being able to ignore all mob aggro on the way to their hunting grounds. Even when you DO kill an NB, he's right back in your face 3 minutes later.

WRX

Just noticed I was tagged in here.

Ill be putting some solid stuff up later tonight from each classes point of view as I have PvP'd on the all.

blur

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NBs are by far the strongest class in PvP right now. Why do you think 95% of sewer gankers are Nightblades? The only thing these guys need more than a nerf is a BAN for griefing everybody else!

NBs are not by far the strongest class. This smacks of serious ignorance and/or bias.

Moreover making up a random statistic (95%) doesn't help your claim. I have been ganked by more Templars and DKs than anything in the sewers. In fact I rarely see NBs as compared to the other 3 classes. This nonsense has been parroted to death since before IC was even on the PTS.

Wrong. I spend HOURS a day in the sewers, every day. I know who's ganking me. It's very rare that I get killed by anyone but a Nightblade, especially Templars. DKs and Sorcs are out there, but they're both much more effective when they're running with a large group. NBs are the only ones who can pick and choose when they want to fight, and they have the advantage of being able to ignore all mob aggro on the way to their hunting grounds. Even when you DO kill an NB, he's right back in your face 3 minutes later.

Just because you die to Nightblades doesn't mean the rest of do, let alone always encounter them. "95%" is a made up statistic you are using to embellish with in order to bolster your particular position on this matter.

Moreover, you might be bad at PvP so as to who is killing you is completely moot. I am not calling you bad, just saying these could be factors that the rest of us don't know about. I do know from your posting history you are a Sorc that does not use Frags but the crap morph that nobody else uses (except newbies who don't know any better) which is quite telling about whether or not you know how to PvP on a Sorc.

That aside, there are several ways to counter sneak including invis. One is Radiant Magelight the other is detect pots. Furthermore if you are a Magicka Sorc and last I saw, you are, you have no excuse to being constantly wrecked considering how strong shields and self heals are...

Also if you are farming your particular area in the sewers, it's going to take longer than 3 minutes for that NB to come back to you if you manage to kill him. However if you are foolish enough to stay in one place, especially after fighting with the enemy, you deserve to get ganked. That's just foolish.

zornyan

blur wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NBs are by far the strongest class in PvP right now. Why do you think 95% of sewer gankers are Nightblades? The only thing these guys need more than a nerf is a BAN for griefing everybody else!

NBs are not by far the strongest class. This smacks of serious ignorance and/or bias.

Moreover making up a random statistic (95%) doesn't help your claim. I have been ganked by more Templars and DKs than anything in the sewers. In fact I rarely see NBs as compared to the other 3 classes. This nonsense has been parroted to death since before IC was even on the PTS.

Wrong. I spend HOURS a day in the sewers, every day. I know who's ganking me. It's very rare that I get killed by anyone but a Nightblade, especially Templars. DKs and Sorcs are out there, but they're both much more effective when they're running with a large group. NBs are the only ones who can pick and choose when they want to fight, and they have the advantage of being able to ignore all mob aggro on the way to their hunting grounds. Even when you DO kill an NB, he's right back in your face 3 minutes later.

Just because you die to Nightblades doesn't mean the rest of do, let alone always encounter them. "95%" is a made up statistic you are using to embellish with in order to bolster your particular position on this matter.

Moreover, you might be bad at PvP so as to who is killing you is completely moot. I am not calling you bad, just saying these could be factors that the rest of us don't know about. I do know from your posting history you are a Sorc that does not use Frags but the crap morph that nobody else uses (except newbies who don't know any better) which is quite telling about whether or not you know how to PvP on a Sorc.

That aside, there are several ways to counter sneak including invis. One is Radiant Magelight the other is detect pots. Furthermore if you are a Magicka Sorc and last I saw, you are, you have no excuse to being constantly wrecked considering how strong shields and self heals are...

Also if you are farming your particular area in the sewers, it's going to take longer than 3 minutes for that NB to come back to you if you manage to kill him. However if you are foolish enough to stay in one place, especially after fighting with the enemy, you deserve to get ganked. That's just foolish.

I rarely rarely see templars in pvp, we're a dying breed, forget the most recent nerfs (radiant destruction , blazing shield, puncturing sweeps/biting jabs AND blazing spears just within the last 3 months) it's the bugs killing us, firing off toppling charge to only become stuck and unable to use skills, radiant destruction not applying execute bonus, burning light not proc'ing, purifying light causing health desyncs etc.

That's killed the class, out of our 3 skill trees only 3 or so skills aren't heavily bugged now.

I've gone days without seeing a templar in pvp, dks pretty rare too, I can't go 5 minutes without an nb ganking me or a seeing a sorc bolt escape all over the place.

Nb's are all over the sewers, it favour them far far too much, even rich Lambert said the IC is an nb gankers paradise and I'd very suited to them.

Nb's are one of the best pvp classes atm, along aide magicka sorc, they have insane burst damage, their skills WORK and they have such inherently good passives/buffs it's like taking candy from a baby, zero thought required for stam nb ganker.

Step one pick khajit for full glass cannon thanks to crit bonus and sneak damage bonus

Step two use cookie cutter hundings/nightmothers/agility/kena for 4300 odd weapon power, 70% odd crit

Step 3 go in stealth, cast grim focus and rally, and camo hunter if you want to be a vampire troll camper.

Step 4 snipe/heavy attack, ambush, suprise attack, ambush. Soul harvest....teabag dead player that's not even gotten up from falling off horse.

Or another version of step 4

Ambush, ambush, ambush, ambush, ambush ,ambush , laugh out loud as your target is perma stunned, unable to do anything thanks to broken gap closer mechanics, then thanks zos for giving nb's the only gap closer that requires no gap.

Teabag again

Soris

Have they finally started to listen pvp player base or this is just a "my wishes" thread??

To be honest, I like the OP's suggestion though, but imo it's just a waste of time if they still do whatever makes them happy. I see no reason threads like this going unless a dev show up somewhere in the thread. And it's 4 pages already...

Zinaroth

Buff Templars according to my signature.

Solariken

I like the spirit of the suggestions and broadly agree, but here's my two cents on a few of them:

1) Harness Magicka should not stack with Hardened Ward. Period. I shouldn't have to explain why at this point.
Simply making these not stack would just be a band-aid. Damage shields need a conceptual overhaul to be consistent with other buffs. I would suggest using a major/minor buff system that we already have for other abilities. There should be one for physical and one for spell. Skills like Hardened Ward or Blazing Shield could provide both buff types while Harness Magicka would only provide the spell type. Casting them together would simply refresh the spell shield buff. Also, the strength of the shield should be a FIXED value that does not scale with anything other than Bastion from the Champion tree.

2) Any and every ability should take the user out of stealth/Cloak. Yes, this includes Vigor, Camo Hunter, Rally, etc.
I do not think self-buffing abilities (Camo Hunter, Merciless Resolve) should break stealth but all healing and group buffs (Vigor, Obsidian Shield) should.

3) Surprise Attack should at the very minimum lose its built in armor debuff, it is too stupid OP atm.
Yep. Adding stuns and debuffs to spammable, high DPS abilities is generally a terrible idea.

4) Dragon Blood should actually heal the 33% of missing health it says it does. No brainer.
And Blazing Shield should get the stated benefit OR rework the skill! That ability is so worthless at current.

5) If we must have AoE caps, Barrier and Purge need to be subject to them as well.
But we mustn't have AoE caps!

11) Molten Weapons could use a slight duration buff.
It should also apply to light attacks.

12) Healing Ward, many of you will argue, is OP and needs nerfed, but I view it as a good tool to use against that OP stamina damage that is running rampant in Cyrodiil. I'm sure this will warrant further discussion.
It doesn't need nerfed per se - see my comment in #1 above.

13) Please look into making Templar ultimates more worthwhile in PvP.
Radial sweep needs a damage increase and a range increase. Nova needs to be fire damage (it is a "fragment of the sun" afterall) and it needs to include an AoE knockdown (no stun). Rite of Passage shouldn't hinder mobility AND projectiles should also hit enemies for damage.

15) If you're a vamp/werewolf, you shouldn't need a skill slotted to enjoy the perks thereof, cause DB will still wreck you without it.
I disagree, I think the slotted skill requirement was a good change. HOWEVER, I think that players should have to slot a Fighter's Guild skill to receive benefit from the Slayer, Banish the Wicked, and Skilled Tracker passives.

16) DK Chains should be less random.
I think it should always pull the target to you but it should have a minimum range for use like other gap closers.

17) I dunno about everyone else, but I don't think immovable potions should be a thing.
I really like them, and I think they help drive the consumables market.

Skinzz

^^ number 15 I can't agree with u even more!

technohic

Still would like to see some CC affects removed from templar abilities. That kb from jabs is not worth having.

Master_Kas

bardx86 wrote: »

Finally I get to jump in here, dam message board account never worked. I only play Sorc so some of this will be from a sorc's view so don't beat me up to bad I'm trying to be constructive. Also I've been PVing since EQ so please take it easy on the L2P crap.

1. Harness Magicka, (shield stacking), I'm not sure why this is such a big deal, MMO's have used this for years, EQ had the exact same mechanics. As Sorc I would expect to have the be defense against magic users and the least against Stam, currently that's the balance. Also Its not easy maintaining 2 to 3 shields in a battle so I really don't find it OP, hell I get killed all the time by well played Templars. If a change to shield stacking is added, making harness worthless first off, then the balance would need to be maintained somehow. Maybe making armor stats applied to shields and then adding say 15k spoiled resist to harden ward? I'm not trying to make it OP but we would be little weak without it.

2. Healing Ward, I'm not sure what as a Sorc we should do if this isn't stackable. We could not maintain any sustain in battle. Personally i think the shield itself is pretty worthless but its the only heal we have. But if its a stacking issue, maybe drop the size of the shield but lower the time of the shield to 3-4 secs bring the heal in faster? Class heal?

3. Surprise Attack, how many times can i be hit with this till its not a surprise anymore?

4. Ambush, this is one of the most annoying abilities in the game, very frustrating. This needs to be addressed just as a playability aspect, its just not very fun anytime control is taken away from the player, more on that later. Also I think I should be able to streak away from Ambush.

5. Fear, seriously? Needs to be reworked. With the DPS of a NB this is just to much. Should be much easier to be broken and definitely on damage.

6. Cloak, I don't believe it needs to nerfed like streak, hell streak should be un-nerfed. However, I don't believe you should be able to cloak .01 secs before a Frags, or whatever, is going to hit and not take any damage. There should be a point where some time in flight the damage is guaranteed to hit. Cloak should be a surprise attack and escape mechanic and not a damage avoidance.

7. Crystal Frags. This spell need some love. It misses far to often. I'm not talking about a dodge role miss, which I think is a fair move but it will just will fly over someones head for no reason, or a player will move to the right a 1/2 a foot it will miss, it goes right threw players, it will dissipate as it hit someone. This is a "spell" its MAGIC! its not a gun. To avoid the damage a player should have to to some sort of defensive move not just step to the right. It takes a lot to even get the spell ready to use. Wait for proc, cast entropy, then actually fire. As a Sorc's main damage it needs to be more reliable. I think the trait dodge also has a large effect on the misses, maybe add a focus champ point or trait so that if a dodge does proc when I fire a Frag I would get a 25-50% of it focusing back on target for damage? I've had battles where 4 frags in a row just miss for no reason, not a very fun mechanic in the game. Mages wrath also miss a lot in lag situations.

8. Streak, oh the days when I could streak and actually felt like a Sorc. I think we went to far on this. It was never that good of a escape skill. I good NB with a gap closer could still lock you down trying to get away. Now it just a death sentence to even try. Maybe drop the cool down to 2 sec? As a sorc I need to reposition quite bit in battle, not running away but staying engaged. 4 sec is a bit long to move again. Putting it at 2 still keeps the spamming of it in check but allows me stay engaged in the fight longer without going OOM.

9. Streak animation rework. The skill needs to be more responsive. It takes forever for it to fire off with its windup animation, with the lag its even worse. Even in a no lag zone I can cast streak turn and watch someone with a giant sword run over and smack me to the ground before it fires off. Sure, lag can be blamed for some of it but not all and since the lag issue may never be fully solved I say change it so that as soon as I hit streak my character is already registering in landing destination location. Then have the streak animation catch up to me. Make it more responsive like NB's Cloak, they hit it and they are gone!

10. Vigor, it needs a tweak. Its really put a balancing issue between magicka and stamina classes. NB's have the best damage best, mobility, best escape then you toss in a heal vigor? I've seen Vigor enable NB's take on groups and do pretty well. I thought the whole point of NB was stealth, surprise and damage while being squishy? The game is devolving into run around a rock spamming vigor. Also not a fun time. BTW where is my magic morph of vigor?

11. CC and Dodge role. I've been thinking about this quite a bit and this is a little less of a balancing issue more of a playability issue. In a battle I can dodge role or break from only 2-3 maybe 4 times. This is not really what I believe the spirt of the game should be about, hitting click click click, really isn't fun. I'm being far to limited as a magicka user in breaking CC's, dying not from skill but a bad design. I really fell like 3-4 roles or break frees in a battle is to little. Stam classes can stack everything into stam get the benefits of damage, more skill spamming, but also spam CC breaks and dodge roles without really sacrificing anything. They can ignore the magic bar completely. Magical users don't have this luxury it really put the stam users at an advantage when dealing with CC. Couple of ideas, 1. Morph of break free to use magicka. (not my fav) 2. (And I like this idea better.) Have the break free use either stam or magicka based on what skill was used to create the CC. So a Crystal frags break free would use magic and a wreaking blow CC would use stam type of thing. I really think this could add a really fun dynamic to the game and also might even make rune prison a thing in PVP.

Just some things I've noticed. Let me know your thoughts. Hopefully ZOS can work some of this stuff out (lag) as the combat is wicked fun.

Your evil Sorc,
Elured Fury

Magicka vigor morph? Use healing springs/rapid regen

Ambush needs minimum range and all Gapclosers need that silence/lock removed or reworked

About fear: CC break and cc immunity needs to work always and instantly (if you have stamina for it ofc) there is issues with all hard cc in the game from time to time. Throw in lag on that.. You get My point.


Nice "nerf nb buff sorc" comment

@DeanTheCat lol good read.

TheBull

Tankqull wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Pretty much ALL of dks abilities need reworking. And the 2 handed tree needs a serious overhaul.

2H is actually a prime example of a perfect tree.
a really good ae skill, a gapcloser, a spammable dps abilitiy worth to be used, a finisher and a awesome utility buff + passives worth to be skilled. what else do you want?

Need more weapon trees like 2hr

zornyan

@Solariken I do think vamps shouldn't be treated the same as WW

There's two distinctive differences.

A ww can slot transformation on an off bar, say that's used defensively and get the 15% stam regen, yet take no bonus damage from anywhere ever.

A vamp could not have space to slot a skill, and is constantly a weakened opponent, not to mention a vamp slotting a skill on the off bar only gets 10% regen to whatever they need, AND their still vulnerable on their main bar.

Either make vamp a toggle so that we can choose whether or not we want to be vulnerable like WW Or just give us the regen

Tankqull

zornyan wrote: »

@Solariken I do think vamps shouldn't be treated the same as WW

There's two distinctive differences.

A ww can slot transformation on an off bar, say that's used defensively and get the 15% stam regen, yet take no bonus damage from anywhere ever.

A vamp could not have space to slot a skill, and is constantly a weakened opponent, not to mention a vamp slotting a skill on the off bar only gets 10% regen to whatever they need, AND their still vulnerable on their main bar.

Either make vamp a toggle so that we can choose whether or not we want to be vulnerable like WW Or just give us the regen

to recieve the reg the morph must be on the active bar on your off/buff bar you recive nothing 99% of the time and 15% more stam reg while buffing is awesome...

Jade1986

Tankqull wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Pretty much ALL of dks abilities need reworking. And the 2 handed tree needs a serious overhaul.

2H is actually a prime example of a perfect tree.
a really good ae skill, a gapcloser, a spammable dps abilitiy worth to be used, a finisher and a awesome utility buff + passives worth to be skilled. what else do you want?

A really good AE ability? You ahve got to be kidding me, it does such low damage it is ridiculous. Executioner is awful unless they have low health, and the gap closer is only useful damage wise if you are over 15 meters away. That leaves you with WB for main damage. Yeah, rally is great, but not an offensive ability. The only weapon tree that is worse is the destruction staff tree.

zornyan

Tankqull wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@Solariken I do think vamps shouldn't be treated the same as WW

There's two distinctive differences.

A ww can slot transformation on an off bar, say that's used defensively and get the 15% stam regen, yet take no bonus damage from anywhere ever.

A vamp could not have space to slot a skill, and is constantly a weakened opponent, not to mention a vamp slotting a skill on the off bar only gets 10% regen to whatever they need, AND their still vulnerable on their main bar.

Either make vamp a toggle so that we can choose whether or not we want to be vulnerable like WW Or just give us the regen

to recieve the reg the morph must be on the active bar on your off/buff bar you recive nothing 99% of the time and 15% more stam reg while buffing is awesome...

It can be done either way.

2 scenarios.

Magi temp slots vampire skill on main bar but not on Backbeat

Stam temp slots ww transform on main bar but not back.

The stam temp is getting 5% more bonus to his regen, has no extra damage recieved, just pure regen buff.

The magi temp gets 10% regen (and 10% to a normally unused stat) but takes extra damage, the whole time and is more vulnerable.

Tankqull

and the vamp recieves a dmg reduction for free once hes below 50% life (cant count the times that actually saved my a$$ and make me win that fight)

Mojomonkeyman

laced wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Pretty much ALL of dks abilities need reworking. And the 2 handed tree needs a serious overhaul.

2H is actually a prime example of a perfect tree.
a really good ae skill, a gapcloser, a spammable dps abilitiy worth to be used, a finisher and a awesome utility buff + passives worth to be skilled. what else do you want?

A really good AE ability? You ahve got to be kidding me, it does such low damage it is ridiculous. Executioner is awful unless they have low health, and the gap closer is only useful damage wise if you are over 15 meters away. That leaves you with WB for main damage. Yeah, rally is great, but not an offensive ability. The only weapon tree that is worse is the destruction staff tree.

You are the prime example of why eso is as bad as it is. "Executioner is aweful unless low health" wow, seriously? The entire purpose of this skill is to finish enemies off and not to mindlessly press spam one button. WB could be so good if it would be instant, ha?

I feel threads like this and the input given will make for an even worse game. Devs might be hopelessly clueless but you guys arent any better.

LegacyDM

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016.

Source?

I believe it was announced that there would be a major class rebalance included with the first major DLC in 2016 (Thieve's Guild)

I'll do some digging tomorrow and try to peg down the exact source.

dday3six wrote: »

DK and to a much lesser extent Templar need to be looked at.p, and updated first. Once they are, and the dust has settles. Then, if needed, Sorc and NB should be re-evaluated. Asking for nerfs to either NB or Sorc before DK and Templar have had their issues addressed is asking that they be balanced against something that as we know is already unbalanced.

At the very least some of the aforementioned synergies that led to the mass QQ against abilities like Cloak and Hardened could be addressed without ruining the class, amirite?

Some of the ppl complaining about Hardened probably don't fully appreciate that it's Harness that is allowing the sorc to shrug off all their damage.

Ditto with some of the Cloak whiners, the current mechanics allow NB's to do too much while Cloaked. In the other Elder Scrolls games doing anything while invisible took you out of it, so why should players in an MMO get to buff and heal while invisible? It seems like a commonsense change to me and it would actually take the heat off of Cloak (coincidentally most of the heat is already off Cloak as ppl realized it was only in IC that Cloak by itself could be considered really powerful)

blur wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016. There are a ton of threads floating around discussing this or that aspect of PvP that have plenty of merit, but I would like to consolidate the discussion for the benefit of all (and ZOS ) so let's do that.

Another terrible thread with horrible bias.

Why don't you just be brief and direct? Say what you really mean: Nerf Nightblades, Nerf Sorcs, buff DKs and Templars.
See? Not difficult. You think ZOS has no idea what has been posted over and over for the past year on these forums? Did you think you would squeak this buy like a tiny fart hoping nobody would smell the stink?

I want to know the name of the person who agreed with this tripe.

I'm trying to facilitate a discussion about balance and all you can do is knock it on the (mistaken) belief that I'm gunning for NB's and sorcs?

Sorcerers shrugging off all magic damage while specced for max damage is unbalanced, that should be pretty universally accepted. You should have to make sacrifices to be that tanky, the fact that they can do it while speccing for full burst is asinine. It's Harness Magicka that allows them to do it, so not really a sorc nerf is it?

As for NB's, I don't think they should be able to use abilities and remain cloaked. Call it what you will but I consider it more of a change in the mechanics of the game because I don't think any class should be able to remain undetected while using abilities.

If you want to join the discussion please do so but, just warning you beforehand, we're talking specifics here, I would never just say "nerf NB" or "nerf sorc," it's about finding the underlying concerns to why things are the way they are (unbalanced and a bit cheesy).

I watched the latest eso live. Nowhere did they discuss major pvp class rebalancing. Still waiting on a source. Until a source is given I'm inclined to believe others and mark this as a highly sophisticated disguised NB/Sorc nerf thread while buffing temps and dk.

To add fuel to the fire, NB are fine. Cloak isn't as strong as people think it is. There are over a half a dozen ways to stop it and it isn't even a reliable escape. NB have no class shield. NB are a one trick wonder. Survive the initial burst and they are nothing more than a gnat. As far as Sorc goes, shield stacking needs to be nerfed. There is no reason why Sorcs should both be tank and high dps. Dks and temps are fine. A properly played dk can tank like a beast and output insane burst dps using wb, take flight, executioner, etc.. a properly played temp can spam puncturing sweeps while sliding in a cc in the rotation purely stun locking. Puncturing sweeps can hit for 6k a tick. Add a cc and a LA wearing opponent will drop instantly.

Before running to the forums crying nerf Learn to play your classes people, get vr16 gold gear, properly allocate your cp, and get your undaunted passives. I guarantee you, once you do that, You will be playing a different game.

CP5

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016.

Source?

I believe it was announced that there would be a major class rebalance included with the first major DLC in 2016 (Thieve's Guild)

I'll do some digging tomorrow and try to peg down the exact source.

dday3six wrote: »

DK and to a much lesser extent Templar need to be looked at.p, and updated first. Once they are, and the dust has settles. Then, if needed, Sorc and NB should be re-evaluated. Asking for nerfs to either NB or Sorc before DK and Templar have had their issues addressed is asking that they be balanced against something that as we know is already unbalanced.

At the very least some of the aforementioned synergies that led to the mass QQ against abilities like Cloak and Hardened could be addressed without ruining the class, amirite?

Some of the ppl complaining about Hardened probably don't fully appreciate that it's Harness that is allowing the sorc to shrug off all their damage.

Ditto with some of the Cloak whiners, the current mechanics allow NB's to do too much while Cloaked. In the other Elder Scrolls games doing anything while invisible took you out of it, so why should players in an MMO get to buff and heal while invisible? It seems like a commonsense change to me and it would actually take the heat off of Cloak (coincidentally most of the heat is already off Cloak as ppl realized it was only in IC that Cloak by itself could be considered really powerful)

blur wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016. There are a ton of threads floating around discussing this or that aspect of PvP that have plenty of merit, but I would like to consolidate the discussion for the benefit of all (and ZOS ) so let's do that.

Another terrible thread with horrible bias.

Why don't you just be brief and direct? Say what you really mean: Nerf Nightblades, Nerf Sorcs, buff DKs and Templars.
See? Not difficult. You think ZOS has no idea what has been posted over and over for the past year on these forums? Did you think you would squeak this buy like a tiny fart hoping nobody would smell the stink?

I want to know the name of the person who agreed with this tripe.

I'm trying to facilitate a discussion about balance and all you can do is knock it on the (mistaken) belief that I'm gunning for NB's and sorcs?

Sorcerers shrugging off all magic damage while specced for max damage is unbalanced, that should be pretty universally accepted. You should have to make sacrifices to be that tanky, the fact that they can do it while speccing for full burst is asinine. It's Harness Magicka that allows them to do it, so not really a sorc nerf is it?

As for NB's, I don't think they should be able to use abilities and remain cloaked. Call it what you will but I consider it more of a change in the mechanics of the game because I don't think any class should be able to remain undetected while using abilities.

If you want to join the discussion please do so but, just warning you beforehand, we're talking specifics here, I would never just say "nerf NB" or "nerf sorc," it's about finding the underlying concerns to why things are the way they are (unbalanced and a bit cheesy).

I watched the latest eso live. Nowhere did they discuss major pvp class rebalancing. Still waiting on a source. Until a source is given I'm inclined to believe others and mark this as a highly sophisticated disguised NB/Sorc nerf thread while buffing temps and dk.

To add fuel to the fire, NB are fine. Cloak isn't as strong as people think it is. There are over a half a dozen ways to stop it and it isn't even a reliable escape. NB have no class shield. NB are a one trick wonder. Survive the initial burst and they are nothing more than a gnat. As far as Sorc goes, shield stacking needs to be nerfed. There is no reason why Sorcs should both be tank and high dps. Dks and temps are fine. A properly played dk can tank like a beast and output insane burst dps using wb, take flight, executioner, etc.. a properly played temp can spam puncturing sweeps while sliding in a cc in the rotation purely stun locking. Puncturing sweeps can hit for 6k a tick. Add a cc and a LA wearing opponent will drop instantly.

Before running to the forums crying nerf Learn to play your classes people, get vr16 gold gear, properly allocate your cp, and get your undaunted passives. I guarantee you, once you do that, You will be playing a different game.

No offense but "Don't nerf NB's, nerf sorcs instead" to me at least is a rather overused phrase trying to throw attention elsewhere. Following that with "DK's and temps are fine" when a lot of people who play those classes frequently would say otherwise...

LegacyDM

CP5 wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016.

Source?

I believe it was announced that there would be a major class rebalance included with the first major DLC in 2016 (Thieve's Guild)

I'll do some digging tomorrow and try to peg down the exact source.

dday3six wrote: »

DK and to a much lesser extent Templar need to be looked at.p, and updated first. Once they are, and the dust has settles. Then, if needed, Sorc and NB should be re-evaluated. Asking for nerfs to either NB or Sorc before DK and Templar have had their issues addressed is asking that they be balanced against something that as we know is already unbalanced.

At the very least some of the aforementioned synergies that led to the mass QQ against abilities like Cloak and Hardened could be addressed without ruining the class, amirite?

Some of the ppl complaining about Hardened probably don't fully appreciate that it's Harness that is allowing the sorc to shrug off all their damage.

Ditto with some of the Cloak whiners, the current mechanics allow NB's to do too much while Cloaked. In the other Elder Scrolls games doing anything while invisible took you out of it, so why should players in an MMO get to buff and heal while invisible? It seems like a commonsense change to me and it would actually take the heat off of Cloak (coincidentally most of the heat is already off Cloak as ppl realized it was only in IC that Cloak by itself could be considered really powerful)

blur wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

To my understanding ZOS is planning a major class rebalance/overhaul sometime in early 2016. There are a ton of threads floating around discussing this or that aspect of PvP that have plenty of merit, but I would like to consolidate the discussion for the benefit of all (and ZOS ) so let's do that.

Another terrible thread with horrible bias.

Why don't you just be brief and direct? Say what you really mean: Nerf Nightblades, Nerf Sorcs, buff DKs and Templars.
See? Not difficult. You think ZOS has no idea what has been posted over and over for the past year on these forums? Did you think you would squeak this buy like a tiny fart hoping nobody would smell the stink?

I want to know the name of the person who agreed with this tripe.

I'm trying to facilitate a discussion about balance and all you can do is knock it on the (mistaken) belief that I'm gunning for NB's and sorcs?

Sorcerers shrugging off all magic damage while specced for max damage is unbalanced, that should be pretty universally accepted. You should have to make sacrifices to be that tanky, the fact that they can do it while speccing for full burst is asinine. It's Harness Magicka that allows them to do it, so not really a sorc nerf is it?

As for NB's, I don't think they should be able to use abilities and remain cloaked. Call it what you will but I consider it more of a change in the mechanics of the game because I don't think any class should be able to remain undetected while using abilities.

If you want to join the discussion please do so but, just warning you beforehand, we're talking specifics here, I would never just say "nerf NB" or "nerf sorc," it's about finding the underlying concerns to why things are the way they are (unbalanced and a bit cheesy).

I watched the latest eso live. Nowhere did they discuss major pvp class rebalancing. Still waiting on a source. Until a source is given I'm inclined to believe others and mark this as a highly sophisticated disguised NB/Sorc nerf thread while buffing temps and dk.

To add fuel to the fire, NB are fine. Cloak isn't as strong as people think it is. There are over a half a dozen ways to stop it and it isn't even a reliable escape. NB have no class shield. NB are a one trick wonder. Survive the initial burst and they are nothing more than a gnat. As far as Sorc goes, shield stacking needs to be nerfed. There is no reason why Sorcs should both be tank and high dps. Dks and temps are fine. A properly played dk can tank like a beast and output insane burst dps using wb, take flight, executioner, etc.. a properly played temp can spam puncturing sweeps while sliding in a cc in the rotation purely stun locking. Puncturing sweeps can hit for 6k a tick. Add a cc and a LA wearing opponent will drop instantly.

Before running to the forums crying nerf Learn to play your classes people, get vr16 gold gear, properly allocate your cp, and get your undaunted passives. I guarantee you, once you do that, You will be playing a different game.

No offense but "Don't nerf NB's, nerf sorcs instead" to me at least is a rather overused phrase trying to throw attention elsewhere. Following that with "DK's and temps are fine" when a lot of people who play those classes frequently would say otherwise...

You can't deny that sorcs shield stacking isn't OP. NB have no shield period. Why nerf the skill that isn't reliable to begin with? As far as dks and temps, I see a lot of over exaggeration on the forums. When you fight experienced pvp lvl 30+ dks and Templars on a constant basis who have their gear golded out and know their class, I'm nclined to believe it's a l2p issue for those people who say otherwise.