Should Sorc shields scale of health?

ToRelax

No...

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?

Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)

Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.

This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.

Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.

Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.

You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.

I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.

I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.

And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.

Er let's see

Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds

lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.

Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?

No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.

Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.

"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"

Jesus you people don't have a clue

The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.

The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.

I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.

Maybe it's a pc only thing then?

Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.

I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?

Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.

sigh...

I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.

If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?

And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?

Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.

23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.

Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.

I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?

My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.

The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.

I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.

But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.

You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.

well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.

You are talking about single hits here, that occur several times per second. He wrote "literally cast sweeps 15 times", so casts is what we are talking about.

usmcjdking

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

If shields could be critted and bleeds went through shields you would see a massive influx of new NBs as more and more sorcerer mains start to realize that they aren't anywhere near as good as they thought they were.

Derra

No...

usmcjdking wrote: »

If shields could be critted and bleeds went through shields you would see a massive influx of new NBs as more and more sorcerer mains start to realize that they aren't anywhere near as good as they thought they were.

Because the massive influx of new NBs is needed? When doing the pvp quests i can barely destinquish between kill enemy players and kill enemy nightblades because there are so many of them. Do you even pvp?

usmcjdking

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

If shields could be critted and bleeds went through shields you would see a massive influx of new NBs as more and more sorcerer mains start to realize that they aren't anywhere near as good as they thought they were.

Because the massive influx of new NBs is needed? When doing the pvp quests i can barely destinquish between kill enemy players and kill enemy nightblades because there are so many of them. Do you even pvp?

Derra - Sorcerer - V16 - AR39
Yningunay - Nightblade - V16

LOL. Already set up for success.

zornyan

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...

Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.

I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.

So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.

So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.

Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?

I made no claims of anything. All claims and ridiculous arguments are your own.

So your entire claim revolves around a L2P issue, not a Sorc is balanced one. Good to know.

It is worth noting that unskilled players are all AP pinatas, except unskilled Sorcs still have the best chance of any class to actually escape.

For the complaints people have made in this thread, and the suggestions on how to fight a sorc, yes it is obviously a L2P issue on their part.
With the changes to bolt escape cost stacking, no sorc is going to escape anyone with a gap closer.

It's funny, because you're so utterly wrong, I've seen a sorc use bolt escape over 7 times in a row, now my own sorc that has barely any gear can use it 5 times in a row quite easily, infact properly geared I could probably use it 8-9 times in a row, guess what? Cast mines after the first one, by the time that the next gap closing has caused you to be stunned, then break free, then try to target the sorc again they have Bolt escaped 4 more times and are out of range

Tankqull

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?

Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)

Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.

This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.

Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.

Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.

You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.

I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.

I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.

And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.

Er let's see

Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds

lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.

Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?

No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.

Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.

"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"

Jesus you people don't have a clue

The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.

The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.

I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.

Maybe it's a pc only thing then?

Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.

I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?

Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.

sigh...

I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.

If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?

And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?

Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.

23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.

Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.

I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?

My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.

The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.

I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.

But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.

You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.

well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.

You are talking about single hits here, that occur several times per second. He wrote "literally cast sweeps 15 times", so casts is what we are talking about.

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?

Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)

Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.

This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.

Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.

Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.

You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.

I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.

I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.

And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.

Er let's see

Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds

lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.

Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?

No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.

Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.

"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"

Jesus you people don't have a clue

The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.

The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.

I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.

Maybe it's a pc only thing then?

Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.

I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?

Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.

sigh...

I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.

If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?

And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?

Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.

23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.

Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.

I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?

My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.

The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.

I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.

But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.

You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.

well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.

You are talking about single hits here, that occur several times per second. He wrote "literally cast sweeps 15 times", so casts is what we are talking about.

well you can hit a target max 4 times with your sweeps, normally your opponent is not so friendly (especially sorcs) to eat the entire chanel so you are down to one or two hits per activation, vs a opponent with some points in hardy your craptastic 625dmg would be even further reduced leaving you with 1k dmg (most cases even less) per activation. with the common ~10k hardend thats at least 10 "casts" to be depleted.

Derra

No...

usmcjdking wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

If shields could be critted and bleeds went through shields you would see a massive influx of new NBs as more and more sorcerer mains start to realize that they aren't anywhere near as good as they thought they were.

Because the massive influx of new NBs is needed? When doing the pvp quests i can barely destinquish between kill enemy players and kill enemy nightblades because there are so many of them. Do you even pvp?

Derra - Sorcerer - V16 - AR39
Yningunay - Nightblade - V16

LOL. Already set up for success.

Whatever that is supposed to tell me?

zornyan

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?

Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)

Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.

This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.

Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.

Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.

You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.

I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.

I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.

And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.

Er let's see

Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds

lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.

Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?

No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.

Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.

"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"

Jesus you people don't have a clue

The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.

The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.

I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.

Maybe it's a pc only thing then?

Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.

I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?

Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.

sigh...

I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.

If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?

And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?

Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.

23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.

Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.

I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?

My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.

The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.

I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.

But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.

You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.

well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.

You are talking about single hits here, that occur several times per second. He wrote "literally cast sweeps 15 times", so casts is what we are talking about.

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?

Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)

Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.

This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.

Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.

Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.

You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.

I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.

I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.

And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.

Er let's see

Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds

lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.

Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?

No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.

Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.

"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"

Jesus you people don't have a clue

The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.

The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.

I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.

Maybe it's a pc only thing then?

Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.

I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?

Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.

sigh...

I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.

If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?

And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?

Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.

23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.

Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.

I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?

My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.

The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.

I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.

But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.

You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.

well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.

You are talking about single hits here, that occur several times per second. He wrote "literally cast sweeps 15 times", so casts is what we are talking about.

well you can hit a target max 4 times with your sweeps, normally your opponent is not so friendly (especially sorcs) to eat the entire chanel so you are down to one or two hits per activation, vs a opponent with some points in hardy your craptastic 625dmg would be even further reduced leaving you with 1k dmg (most cases even less) per activation. with the common ~10k hardend thats at least 10 "casts" to be depleted.

This , even with 4 connected hits, it's stupid how many casts are required.

Your average dps magicka build has a tooltip of what? 1200 per hit? If that,

So 1200 - 50% 600.

Get 2 out of 4 hits = 1200 damage.

20k worth of shields? Yeah 20 sweeps to bring them down costing me around 30k magicka and the sorc what? 4k for all the shields?

Tankqull

zornyan wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?

Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)

Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.

This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.

Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.

Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.

You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.

I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.

I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.

And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.

Er let's see

Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds

lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.

Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?

No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.

Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.

"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"

Jesus you people don't have a clue

The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.

The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.

I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.

Maybe it's a pc only thing then?

Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.

I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?

Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.

sigh...

I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.

If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?

And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?

Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.

23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.

Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.

I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?

My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.

The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.

I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.

But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.

You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.

well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.

You are talking about single hits here, that occur several times per second. He wrote "literally cast sweeps 15 times", so casts is what we are talking about.

ToRelax wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

When did this turn into Templar vs Sorcerer?

Well, I play both and my Templar has multiple skills to increase regen(This is strait up wrong, we have 2. One of which requires bodies to work at all. Also the "passive" effect it gives is the same as a potion and does not stack. And to get the MP from channeled focus we have to recast every 8 seconds. NO ONE ELSE HAS AN ARMOR THAT'S 8 SECONDS, 12 if you stand still.), better healing (Only as a magic class, much worse healing as stamina compared to sorc), and can last longer in close proximity to enemy players than my sorc can. (This is wrong as well, Sorc has the highest mobility in the game and the BEST PROACTIVE defense. If you are dying faster on sorc than Templar than you likely just need practice playing sorc.)

Everyone needs to stop arguing and actually take a moment to consider the actual points brought up in this thread, we aren't just bashing on SORCS we see an imbalance and would point it out for ANY CLASS. Do I personally want Sorc nerfed? No. I don't even want the shield changed to scale on HP, what we DO WANT however is a review of these mechanics because they are not fair OR a buff to other classes to bring us up to par.

This isn't a Templar vs Sorcerer thread, Templar was only brought up to argue a point about PROACTIVE DEFENSE vs REACTIVE DEFENSE. We are merely emphasizing you can PREEMPT DAMAGE which is BETTER than reacting to heal or cloak or block cause you can keep fighting. How to kill any magic class from stealth -> DMG to CC to death, if they are magic and wearing cloth they likely can be burst down in a few seconds unless you give them time to react.

Ezareth argued earlier Sorcs need those shields cause without them you get insta-gibbed from steath, ironically he didn't even acknowledge that Magic Templar, Magic Dragon Knight and Magic NB are going to be wearing similar armor (cloth) and likely in the same scenario would ALSO BE INSTA-GIBBED because ALL OF THEIR DEFENSES ARE REACTIONARY not PROACTIVE. At least you can PREPARE for the fight before it happens, no one else can. Sorcerer is essentially the Batman of ESO.

Can a Templar use non-class shields? Yes. Will he gain the same benefit as a Sorcerer, not likely. Will anyone gain the same benefit as a Sorc? No because no one has a 20 second huge class shield which scales much higher than other class shields. At the very least shields should only stack 2 at a time, a Major ward and a minor ward like every other buff.

You're wrong about Repentance. The passive regen is not the same as the potion buffs. You're thinking of the other morph that no one uses, because it is completely useless and even than that morph still has the passive regen. The buffs are only when you activate the skill. Channeled Focus is 8 seconds, but it gives the same armor buffs as Bound Armor plus it adds in magic regen and on top of that, it is not a toggle. And you don't have to stand in place to get the benefits.

I need to practice playing my sorc? That's funny. Read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote. I said that my Templar can stand in close proximity to multiple enemy players longer than my sorc can. That is because sorcs have to maintain distance. If that ward goes down, there are very few options for healing. And not all of us are using a resto staff.

I know very few Templars that use light armor. People are always surprised when I tell them I wear 5 light because of how much damage I can mitigate and how much I can live through and keep others alive through. To this day, I have not been successfully ganked on my horse on my Templar. My sorc has been.

And it doesn't matter that a sorc shield cast lasts 20 seconds. It's only going to absorb 8-12k worth of damage, depending on the player. You have to cast it about as frequently as a templar would need to cast Blazing Shield or Harness Magic. But the thing is that a Templar doesn't need to do this, because of healing.

Er let's see

Channeled focus adds regen if you STAND IN THE TINY TINY CIRCLE and last for 8 Seconds

lightning form lasts for 20 seconds, does damage AND grants a speed buff AND last for 20 seconds.

Unless your telling me all pvp fights are static?

No, it doesn't. You get the regen for 8 seconds whether you're in or out of the circle. Go try it.

Actually it now only regens whilst standing in it, got nerfed in the last patch, even the tooltip states.

"Recover x magicka per 0.5 seconds WHILST STANDING IN THE RUNE"

Jesus you people don't have a clue

The only one without a clue here is you. The tooltip is wrong. You recover magic for 8 seconds whether you're in or out. Again, I'm going to tell you to go actually test it instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I have tested it, multiple times, and I don't gain any magicka over my standard recovery stat unless I'm literally standing in the rune, maybe it's a pc exclusive glitch, but on console it works as the tooltip suggests.

The recovery doesn't show on your Character information.

I mean the only way to test on console is by how long you can actually last casting a skill, for instance if I stood in the rune I could cast sweeps 18 times, outside it and I cast less times due to less recovery.

Maybe it's a pc only thing then?

Regardless I'd rather have a big passive buff than a "stand here" buff that only last a few seconds, and requires another slot on our bar.

I'm still LOL'ing at the people suggesting blazing shield as being effective, I think for your average build it's what? 1.5k in cyrodil?

Infact it's a debuff more than anything, as any damage over the shield gets unmigitated damage against us, so a 8k snipe will be hitting us for more like 10k due to any single attack going over it.

sigh...

I don't know what you don't get about this. You still get the regen outside of the circle.

If your Blazing Shield is only 1.5k, how much health do you even have?

And please tell me how an 8k snipe increases to 10k. What kind of math are you using? Why am I even bothering with replying to you?

Far as I've heard the overflow bug still exists, there was a thread about it in the general discussion section about 1 month ago now? People stating that it's still happening.

23k hp in pvp, gives a 3k shield, that's IF. I'm using drinks instead of food and run with 18k health, that drops it down to 2k.

Your problem in PVP isn't the size of your shield. Your problem is how little health you have. I don't even have that little health on my sorc.

I don't have a problem in pvp? Please tell me where I said "I'm getting one shot" or the equivalent ?

My magicka templar is quite successful overall, winning more fights than not.

The issue I have is that sweeps barely tickles a sorc shields, due to no 140% buff, so quite literally my damage is useless against them,or any templar for the matter.

I could literally cast sweeps 15 times to remove one hardened ward,it's a joke.

But other than that, it's impossible to kill a good sorc, simply because the second they begin to lose, they just spam Bolt Escape 4-5 times in a row and are miles away, so although I've technically beaten them, due to their stupid mobility, they never die, just streak streak streak over and over and over.

You love to exaggerate, don't you? It usually falls back on people though.
If you Puncturing Sweep still doesn't get it's bonus dmg vs shields, it's a bug, but even then, if your dmg was so low you'd need 15 casts to break one ward, your damage is too low.
Also, you say a Sorc who is technically beaten bolt escapes 4-5 times in a row so you can't kill him. You think a Sorc who still has over 20k magicka left is "technically beaten"? To me that sounds as if the Sorc was either bored because you outhealed his damage and didn't deal much dmg yourself, or because you were outnumbering him or going to do so soon.

well thats a bit to easy - due to the healing aspect of the magica morph of that skill the dmg it deals is extreamly low (actually the lowest of any skill ig) if than the skill is buged and not adding 140% additional dmg to your target because its using a shield you can do what ever you want its dmg is craptastic in that situation.
just as an example lets say your normal sweeps does 4000-6000 dmg against a not shielded target thats at best = 1500 per hit, so without the 140% additional dmg this boils down to 625 dmg per hit, thats less than any dot in pvp...
and as he is dealing magical dmg he is doublefucked due to harness magica granting unlimited mana to the sorc because of his horrible dmg...
none the less this does not justify a change of the sorc shield but only a bugfix for sweeps and eventually a discussion about shield stacking.

You are talking about single hits here, that occur several times per second. He wrote "literally cast sweeps 15 times", so casts is what we are talking about.

well you can hit a target max 4 times with your sweeps, normally your opponent is not so friendly (especially sorcs) to eat the entire chanel so you are down to one or two hits per activation, vs a opponent with some points in hardy your craptastic 625dmg would be even further reduced leaving you with 1k dmg (most cases even less) per activation. with the common ~10k hardend thats at least 10 "casts" to be depleted.

This , even with 4 connected hits, it's stupid how many casts are required.

Your average dps magicka build has a tooltip of what? 1200 per hit? If that,

So 1200 - 50% 600.

Get 2 out of 4 hits = 1200 damage.

20k worth of shields? Yeah 20 sweeps to bring them down costing me around 30k magicka and the sorc what? 4k for all the shields?

you are right but still dont realize the problem.
1. sweeps is bugged and needs to be fixed
2. hardend is not the problem but shield stacking wich is a problem for any mana class fighting another mana class
3. the efficiancy of anulement and steadfast ward is to high

ToRelax

No...

If you guys don't even get over 2k dps with Sweeps it's more on you for being outplayed. Most Jabs and WB spammers hit me rarely, but the few good ones are able to hit me in crucial moments and deal a lot of damage.

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...

Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.

I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.

So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.

So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.

Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?

I made no claims of anything. All claims and ridiculous arguments are your own.

So your entire claim revolves around a L2P issue, not a Sorc is balanced one. Good to know.

It is worth noting that unskilled players are all AP pinatas, except unskilled Sorcs still have the best chance of any class to actually escape.

For the complaints people have made in this thread, and the suggestions on how to fight a sorc, yes it is obviously a L2P issue on their part.
With the changes to bolt escape cost stacking, no sorc is going to escape anyone with a gap closer.

It's funny, because you're so utterly wrong, I've seen a sorc use bolt escape over 7 times in a row, now my own sorc that has barely any gear can use it 5 times in a row quite easily, infact properly geared I could probably use it 8-9 times in a row, guess what? Cast mines after the first one, by the time that the next gap closing has caused you to be stunned, then break free, then try to target the sorc again they have Bolt escaped 4 more times and are out of range

Yes, please, get your gear and pvp a bit first. Solo, if you would. You'll experience how it is yourself then.

Xeven

No...

This thread has devolved into naive ignorance.

zornyan

ToRelax wrote: »

If you guys don't even get over 2k dps with Sweeps it's more on you for being outplayed. Most Jabs and WB spammers hit me rarely, but the few good ones are able to hit me in crucial moments and deal a lot of damage.

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...

Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.

I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.

So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.

So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.

Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?

I made no claims of anything. All claims and ridiculous arguments are your own.

So your entire claim revolves around a L2P issue, not a Sorc is balanced one. Good to know.

It is worth noting that unskilled players are all AP pinatas, except unskilled Sorcs still have the best chance of any class to actually escape.

For the complaints people have made in this thread, and the suggestions on how to fight a sorc, yes it is obviously a L2P issue on their part.
With the changes to bolt escape cost stacking, no sorc is going to escape anyone with a gap closer.

It's funny, because you're so utterly wrong, I've seen a sorc use bolt escape over 7 times in a row, now my own sorc that has barely any gear can use it 5 times in a row quite easily, infact properly geared I could probably use it 8-9 times in a row, guess what? Cast mines after the first one, by the time that the next gap closing has caused you to be stunned, then break free, then try to target the sorc again they have Bolt escaped 4 more times and are out of range

Yes, please, get your gear and pvp a bit first. Solo, if you would. You'll experience how it is yourself then.

I have. As I mentioned in previous threads I've never played a sorc before as I find the play style boring.

I've pvp'd with inadequate gear, and found it to be a complete easy mode, for both pvp and pve, it's stupid how hard some abilities hit, and thanks to sorcs being tanky and have huge mobility it means I vary rarely die.

Cinnamon_Spider

No...

zornyan wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

It was about a Sorc trying to escape. Not how to deal with shieldstacking...

Shield stacking is what allows them to walk away with impunity, this whole thread is about shield stacking. @Hiero_Glyph had a very valid point, how would anyone kill a sorc with Dark Flare? (lol) Any sorc worth his salt will interrupt this like EVERY cast or reflect it if using Sword n Shield. Vampire's Bane? LOL. Toppling Charge 4-5 times in a row would also drain your MP and leave you unlikely to kill anyway.

I have over 2500 magic regen, so 4-5 toppling charges would in no way deplete my magic pool. Meanwhile, those 4 bolts would leave the sorc with very little magic. It is very easy to run a sorc out of magic and stamina. If they can't cast a ward because they tried to run, they're an AP pinata.

So it really is a L2P issue, just from the Sorc's perspective. If the Sorc knows what they are doing the Templar is uterly helpless and it doesn't even matter if they keep pace. Besides, this mentions nothing about breaking LoS, the CC and snares that the Sorc can use, in additional to Boundless Storm, or you know... they could always just DPS the Templar forcing them to heal and make them unable to follow without overextending their own resources. The point being that this doesn't even account for shield stacking which makes everything the Templar does pointless in terms of trying to actually kill the Sorc.

So, are we discussing a sorc getting away, how to fight one that doesn't run, ward scaling from health, or being combined with harness? Because I was talking about how to deal with someone streaking away and how easy they are to kill due to being OOM, since that was the complaint brought up. It is too easy for anyone with a gap closer to keep up with a sorc.

Are you really trying to make a claim that a Sorc that is only Streaking away, not using LoS, not procing frag for a knockdown, etc. has any clue how to play the class?

I made no claims of anything. All claims and ridiculous arguments are your own.

So your entire claim revolves around a L2P issue, not a Sorc is balanced one. Good to know.

It is worth noting that unskilled players are all AP pinatas, except unskilled Sorcs still have the best chance of any class to actually escape.

For the complaints people have made in this thread, and the suggestions on how to fight a sorc, yes it is obviously a L2P issue on their part.
With the changes to bolt escape cost stacking, no sorc is going to escape anyone with a gap closer.

It's funny, because you're so utterly wrong, I've seen a sorc use bolt escape over 7 times in a row, now my own sorc that has barely any gear can use it 5 times in a row quite easily, infact properly geared I could probably use it 8-9 times in a row, guess what? Cast mines after the first one, by the time that the next gap closing has caused you to be stunned, then break free, then try to target the sorc again they have Bolt escaped 4 more times and are out of range

How long have you played a sorc? I used to use one of the gear combos that gave two 8% cost reduction bonuses along with drinks and cost reduction enchants. There wasn't a zerg around that I couldn't escape from. I can tell you from experience that there is not an effective gear combo in this patch that would allow you to bolt so many times, nor would you want one because you need to have enough damage to be able to take another player down.

I even tried a Willow's Path dual wield drink build. Over 2k regen, but the stacking cost catches up and then you're OOM which means no shields and no mines.

And mines need three seconds to arm (unless you're using the sub par morph) so it isn't a matter of dropping them mid bolt. Not that you can cast anything mid bolt.

So by all means go gear up and then share a video of your 9 in a row bolt escape build.

And you haven't figured out how to block when using a gap closer on a sorc? I realized that the first day I put Toppling Charge on my bar.

FriedEggSandwich

No...

usmcjdking wrote: »

If shields could be critted and bleeds went through shields you would see a massive influx of new NBs as more and more sorcerer mains start to realize that they aren't anywhere near as good as they thought they were.

How good do you have to be to push a few buttons in order? If you can play one class well you can play them all lol, this is computer gaming not martial art.

Darnathian

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Just wanted to pop in again and remind you all that it is Annulment + its morphs that make Sorcerers unbalanced atm, not Hardened Ward. Leave Hardened Ward alone and let's talk about how any competent sorc can always burst or tank any other magicka build (other than sorcs) by using Harness/Dampen on top of Hardened Ward, if they can't they need to go practice and try again when they've improved. Either that or use the catch-up system to get enough CP's into Bastion.

Annulment is making sorcs unbalanced, granted exclusively vs magicka builds, but that is still a balance issue. Obviously stamina builds can deal with the shield stack, why would anyone want to make stamina builds bursting sorcs easy-mode? (don't answer that one) Let's deal with the easy-mode switch we have already, which is trololololol Triple H's romping around slamming chairs into other magicka users with little to no risk to themselves. (Hardened + Harness + Healing)

I'm not even totally against shield-stacking, I'm just for any solution to the problem of sorcs being way too tanky vs other magicka builds (without sacrificing damage for that tankiness). If that means shields should be placed on a minor/major system or override one another, I'm for it.

Finally someone on topic who is making some sort of sense.

I'm completely fine with Annulment no longer stacking with Hardened ward because both last for 20 seconds and can be pre-applied and offer too much magical protection for too cheap of a cost against any player running a magicka build.

Healing ward is another story and I have no problem with that stacking with Hardened ward or annulment since it only lasts 4 seconds.

I may be missing something but why the disparity when it comes to the length of time shields last? My initial thoughts is the should All be the same time. Why 20s for a SORC and 6 for blazing shield?

Again I am asking as I may have missed something.

A Templar has the option to burst heal in the even he is damaged, a sorc does not. A pretty much has to always have a shield up anywhere he goes or risk being 1-shot from stealth.

Blazing shield and Healing ward both are utility shields...they have an effect that isn't just a damage shield.

As it stands when being pressured a templar would be spamming shields the same as a sorc....if Blazing were more useable.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Just wanted to pop in again and remind you all that it is Annulment + its morphs that make Sorcerers unbalanced atm, not Hardened Ward. Leave Hardened Ward alone and let's talk about how any competent sorc can always burst or tank any other magicka build (other than sorcs) by using Harness/Dampen on top of Hardened Ward, if they can't they need to go practice and try again when they've improved. Either that or use the catch-up system to get enough CP's into Bastion.

Annulment is making sorcs unbalanced, granted exclusively vs magicka builds, but that is still a balance issue. Obviously stamina builds can deal with the shield stack, why would anyone want to make stamina builds bursting sorcs easy-mode? (don't answer that one) Let's deal with the easy-mode switch we have already, which is trololololol Triple H's romping around slamming chairs into other magicka users with little to no risk to themselves. (Hardened + Harness + Healing)

I'm not even totally against shield-stacking, I'm just for any solution to the problem of sorcs being way too tanky vs other magicka builds (without sacrificing damage for that tankiness). If that means shields should be placed on a minor/major system or override one another, I'm for it.

Finally someone on topic who is making some sort of sense.

I'm completely fine with Annulment no longer stacking with Hardened ward because both last for 20 seconds and can be pre-applied and offer too much magical protection for too cheap of a cost against any player running a magicka build.

Healing ward is another story and I have no problem with that stacking with Hardened ward or annulment since it only lasts 4 seconds.

I may be missing something but why the disparity when it comes to the length of time shields last? My initial thoughts is the should All be the same time. Why 20s for a SORC and 6 for blazing shield?

Again I am asking as I may have missed something.

Blazing shield does damage on dispel depending on how much was absorbed afaik, I guess if it lasted longer it would absorb more damage and then do more damage? It's been a while since I played my templar. Reducing hardened ward to 10 seconds wouldn't have a huge effect on it's effectiveness imo; when taking damage from even one source it's very unlikely to last 10 seconds.

It would have a huge effect in its utility, especially in PvE. Many of my deaths happen in VMSA because I forgot to reapply my shield. Having to do this every 10 seconds would be terrible.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting it was reduced to 10 seconds, was trying to make the point that there is no need to reduce its duration when it can be destroyed in seconds. Its duration doesn't really contribute to its strength. All of this comparing templars to sorcs is rediculous anyway imo, they are classes designed for different roles.

Your right. They are all suppose to be different. A sorc is 3 of the 4 classes right now. Lol. Tank, damage, mobility. Whether or not it happens, a adjustment needs to be made. I think the best would be no more stacking. And then see how it goes.

I'm against shield stacking, most sorcs on this forum are, I wish they would remove it from the game. I only use hardened ward in pvp and have done since shieldbreaker set came out. Tank, damage and mobility aren't classes, nice try though lol.

Class. Role. Whatever. Like that matters. You get the point. At least your being reasonable. Unlike the majority of the Demi gods.

Darnathian

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Just make shields crittable and be done with it.

No. Not enough. Shield stacking needs to go. Period.

Darnathian

k2blader wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

The amount of bias in this thread is astounding. Seriously telling two players how bad they are for raising some valid concerns is uncalled for. Sure some points could have been made better but they were not countered very well.

Straight up are nb's and sorc's way above DKS and temps? If you say no keep enjoying your opness while it lasts. Because balancing is coming. Zos already confirmed it. Early next year.

And I promise you it is not DKs and Templars that will be brought down to earth. Come live with us mortals and let's see all those L2P comments. Because trust me I will be quoting them.

Can you post anything more constructive than (paraphrased): "Don't help me learn how to overcome these problems I have with sorcs"?

So you think DKs and Templars need buffs? Start consistently posting about how you think those classes should be buffed. Why just constantly whinge about nerfing other classes? Makes no sense unless you are intentionally wishing harm, which I believe is the case with most complainers, and it's so backwards.

Nope. I will not. I tried that route. I tried to reason with Sorcs before and the majority were childish and 99% of the response were L2P. This was not a surprise. This was identified a long time. The disparity of SORC and nb's and others. My main, which I played since launch, is a crafter Magicka DK right now because of all the whining. Did it need nerfs?

According to all the responses now about Sorcs and nb's no it did not. The other classes needed to be buffed. But we all know what happened. And now the majority of the same players saying don't nerf Sorcs or nb's and buff the other classes, are those same players who screams for nerfs for dk's.

That defense may work for new players but not those that have been here since the beginning and saw the evolvement of PvP.

Should I start quoting all these players? Like I said. Biased and hypocrosy.

ToRelax

No...

Darnathian wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

The amount of bias in this thread is astounding. Seriously telling two players how bad they are for raising some valid concerns is uncalled for. Sure some points could have been made better but they were not countered very well.

Straight up are nb's and sorc's way above DKS and temps? If you say no keep enjoying your opness while it lasts. Because balancing is coming. Zos already confirmed it. Early next year.

And I promise you it is not DKs and Templars that will be brought down to earth. Come live with us mortals and let's see all those L2P comments. Because trust me I will be quoting them.

Can you post anything more constructive than (paraphrased): "Don't help me learn how to overcome these problems I have with sorcs"?

So you think DKs and Templars need buffs? Start consistently posting about how you think those classes should be buffed. Why just constantly whinge about nerfing other classes? Makes no sense unless you are intentionally wishing harm, which I believe is the case with most complainers, and it's so backwards.

Nope. I will not. I tried that route. I tried to reason with Sorcs before and the majority were childish and 99% of the response were L2P. This was not a surprise. This was identified a long time. The disparity of SORC and nb's and others. My main, which I played since launch, is a crafter Magicka DK right now because of all the whining. Did it need nerfs?

According to all the responses now about Sorcs and nb's no it did not. The other classes needed to be buffed. But we all know what happened. And now the majority of the same players saying don't nerf Sorcs or nb's and buff the other classes, are those same players who screams for nerfs for dk's.

That defense may work for new players but not those that have been here since the beginning and saw the evolvement of PvP.

Should I start quoting all these players? Like I said. Biased and hypocrosy.

Yeah please do that.

zornyan

The thing is, if they buffed DKs and temps to match nb's and sorcs the gsme would be broken, what they need to do is actually a nerf, currently TTK hasn't improved much since 1.7, and classes like sorcs that benefit from stacking msgicks are getting our of hand.

Bring back soft caps .

Fix dk and templar bugs .

Nerf sorcs and NB , yes nerf, I don't even want them to buff templars, but a nerf to those two classes will bring TTK down, and get it in line with what zeni is trying to do.

CyrusArya

No...

@Zornyan The only thing that's getting out of hand is your incessant whining.

newtinmpls

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

DK and Temp shields scale of health, BUT they also have some awesome ON DEMAND heal: Breath of life and Igneous Shield + Dragon blood..

Ahh... have you actually played a DK lately??

Igneous sheild + Dragon Breath = survive till the healer gets there.

I do love playing my DK, but currently the so-called self-heals of that class are ... not very effective.
.

zornyan

CyrusArya wrote: »

@Zornyan The only thing that's getting out of hand is your incessant whining.

Great contribution to the thread there, let me guess. You main a sorcerer?

Thought so, thanks

Derra

No...

zornyan wrote: »

The thing is, if they buffed DKs and temps to match nb's and sorcs the gsme would be broken, what they need to do is actually a nerf, currently TTK hasn't improved much since 1.7, and classes like sorcs that benefit from stacking msgicks are getting our of hand.

Bring back soft caps .

Fix dk and templar bugs .

Nerf sorcs and NB , yes nerf, I don't even want them to buff templars, but a nerf to those two classes will bring TTK down, and get it in line with what zeni is trying to do.

The problem is (only speaking for sorc here) the low TTK is needed. The whole class is designed around bursting your opponent down. It´s why sorc has so many mechanics that are absolutely useless in sustained fights (curse, exploding pet, finisher debuff procc, rgn chance nuke - NO class anytime direct dmg skill).

Also everything about sorc burst is widly telegraphed. If players are unable to react to a burst that´s highlighted 3.5s prior because your char starts blinking in purple fog it´s not the fault of sorcs, ZOS or anyone but the player getting hit.

I´m all for removing shieldstacking alltogether though (and bringing balance to overlol). Also for fixing known templar and DK bugs (especially DKs are not bad off against sorcs anyway).

Hexys

No...

They should make it so you can only gain a certain percentage of your health as shield, like 50-75%.

So if I would have 20k health I can only get 10-15k of shields no matter were they come from. This will also help smaller groups taking on bigger groups rotating barriers.

Darnathian

zornyan wrote: »

The thing is, if they buffed DKs and temps to match nb's and sorcs the gsme would be broken, what they need to do is actually a nerf, currently TTK hasn't improved much since 1.7, and classes like sorcs that benefit from stacking msgicks are getting our of hand.

Bring back soft caps .

Fix dk and templar bugs .

Nerf sorcs and NB , yes nerf, I don't even want them to buff templars, but a nerf to those two classes will bring TTK down, and get it in line with what zeni is trying to do.

Doesn't fix magicka DKs. Or shield stacking.

AfkNinja

Yes it should scale of health like 'every other class'

Hexys wrote: »

They should make it so you can only gain a certain percentage of your health as shield, like 50-75%.

So if I would have 20k health I can only get 10-15k of shields no matter were they come from. This will also help smaller groups taking on bigger groups rotating barriers.

This change would be better implemented if they did it with a reintroduction of soft caps. Stacking health then becomes a priority along with having enough MP to rotate your spells and enough spell dmg to hit hard. As it stands now you are penalized to heavily for investing in health over your main dmg resources.

Asmael

But what if...

What if shields could actually scale from MULTIPLE attributes at once?

Hardened ward scales from magicka with a 0.3 factor, but from health with a 1 factor (e.g having 100 magicka boosts Hardened Ward as much as having an extra 33 health).

Also, why not make attribute points invested into health actually give some health? Like 50% more than what we currently have?

Do that, remove shieldbreaker, make shields crittable, increase all shields by ~20% to compensate (except Harness Magicka which wins the "broken anti-magicka ability of the year award")

-

Just throwing ideas here and there...

Maulkin

No...

Asmael wrote: »

....make shields crittable, increase all shields by ~20% to compensate....

As stated many, many, many times in this thread....That's not sound advice at all.

1) It will make wards even stronger against non-crit builds which is not needed. It will make shield-casters even tankier against a huge amount of people.

2) The effect would be damaging to build diversity as everyone will end up running crit builds. Crit builds are fine how they are in PvP. When block/shields drop the damage boost is very high. We don't need crit bypassing more defense mechanisms.

3) This will lead to even higher stamina build bias as they get extra crit passives from medium armour and daggers. Stamina builds don't have problems cutting through shields even without Shield Breaker. It's because they bypass Harness and they deal higher damage on average due to lack of CP passive that would mitigate them.

Ezareth

No...

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

....make shields crittable, increase all shields by ~20% to compensate....

As stated many, many, many times in this thread....That's not sound advice at all.

1) It will make wards even stronger against non-crit builds which is not needed. It will make shield-casters even tankier against a huge amount of people.

2) The effect would be damaging to build diversity as everyone will end up running crit builds. Crit builds are fine how they are in PvP. When block/shields drop the damage boost is very high. We don't need crit bypassing more defense mechanisms.

3) This will lead to even higher stamina build bias as they get extra crit passives from medium armour and daggers. Stamina builds don't have problems cutting through shields even without Shield Breaker. It's because they bypass Harness and they deal higher damage on average due to lack of CP passive that would mitigate them.

Has anything useful been said in this thread in the past 4 or 5 days or is it just the same 2 or 3 irrational nerfherders whining still? I've already wasted too much time here.

Maulkin

No...

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

....make shields crittable, increase all shields by ~20% to compensate....

As stated many, many, many times in this thread....That's not sound advice at all.

1) It will make wards even stronger against non-crit builds which is not needed. It will make shield-casters even tankier against a huge amount of people.

2) The effect would be damaging to build diversity as everyone will end up running crit builds. Crit builds are fine how they are in PvP. When block/shields drop the damage boost is very high. We don't need crit bypassing more defense mechanisms.

3) This will lead to even higher stamina build bias as they get extra crit passives from medium armour and daggers. Stamina builds don't have problems cutting through shields even without Shield Breaker. It's because they bypass Harness and they deal higher damage on average due to lack of CP passive that would mitigate them.

Has anything useful been said in this thread in the past 4 or 5 days or is it just the same 2 or 3 irrational nerfherders whining still? I've already wasted too much time here.

Nope, nothing new. Nothing of substance any way.