Are veteran ranks still gonna be removed?

wayfarerx

Ritzey01 wrote: »

To sum up what everyone who wants VR's removed:

Its too hard, we have to kill too many things and do too many quest, do things that i dont want to. BOOWAAAAA!!!

LMAO!!


Sorry, thats probably trolling. It just infuriates me when i few whiners want everything to change to suit them, no matter what everyone else who is happy with the game the way it is, feels about.

For the one millionth time, we don't want to skip to the end, we want to be able to play different parts of the game in parallel. After 50 you can solo quest in silver & gold OR play in Cyrodiil without being woefully underleveled OR run vet dungeons and get meaningful rewards. Maybe even *gasp* switch back and forth during one play session.

Why is grinding 15 vr levels some kind of badge of honor? It's not difficult it's just boring and time consuming.

NewBlacksmurf

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ritzey01 wrote: »

To sum up what everyone who wants VR's removed:

Its too hard, we have to kill too many things and do too many quest, do things that i dont want to. BOOWAAAAA!!!

LMAO!!


Sorry, thats probably trolling. It just infuriates me when i few whiners want everything to change to suit them, no matter what everyone else who is happy with the game the way it is, feels about.

For the one millionth time, we don't want to skip to the end, we want to be able to play different parts of the game in parallel. After 50 you can solo quest in silver & gold OR play in Cyrodiil without being woefully underleveled OR run vet dungeons and get meaningful rewards. Maybe even *gasp* switch back and forth during one play session.

Why is grinding 15 vr levels some kind of badge of honor? It's not difficult it's just boring and time consuming.

+1

Ritzey01

So yall want all leveling to stop at lvl 50. Are the VR levels not the same thing as levels 51-100 in WoW? Do pretty much all MMO's raise the level cap with expansions? If they just changed the name of the VR's to be level 51-66 would that make it better?

In playing WoW, at level 50, can you skip straight to the end game content? Or do you have to progress through the game as intended? You have to go through silver and gold because that is the game progression.

I do not understand all the fussing and whining! Yea, it takes a while, but if you dont want to play the game as intended, dont play. Its very simple.

Xjcon

Powtreeman wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, the plan is still to remove Veteran Ranks. We'll talk more about the details of this as we get closer to implementation.

Good to know I wasted my time working my ass off for vet rank 16

You worked your ass off? I have a couple VR 16 but in no way does the phrase "worked my ass off" pertain to playing them. Digging a ditch for 10 hours that is a good place for the phrase "worked my ass off".

Xjcon

Aerieth wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

Exactly, I 100% agree with you. Especially since the forums are a place where most people only visit to complain about something they don't like. I can only imagine how many active players are happily playing the game as is and would be upset by the removal of VR.

Conversely, imagine how many are silently cursing VR but don't see the point of complaining on the forum about it.

ZOS themselves are the only ones who have any sort of reliable metrics on this, probably based on how many characters / accounts get abandoned before reaching the level cap.

If I were to imagine this based off of my experience in game, I would have to say next to none. I know that's not true, I am sure there are many, but not near as many as the one who would want them to stay. I play with many different people every week and I have not heard anyone complain about VR in months.

Eric Wrobel mentions this on ESO Live - Episode 27 - Oct. 15th (00:24:27)

Here's what he said:
"We noticed that some players were dropping off at Veteran Rank 1, because it took a really long time to get to Veteran Rank 2 and they had to go all the way to 16. So sort of our first step of improving that - with a previous update - was, we made it take less experience to get a Veteran Rank and we also made it so that when you're doing veteran quests you get more quests (he probably meant: Experience)"

O you mean that update a couple of months ago that I haven't heard anyone complain about VR removal since? The only complaint I ever hear is people wanting more new content. As I said before, them trying to remove VR is taking resources away from that. A lot of people like the way VR and CP work together. Just make the ranks even easier to obtain and everyone is happy and we can move forward.

Fact of the matter is that some players quit the game at Veteran Rank 1, because of the system. Neither of us have definitive data on the whole player base. Only ZOS has solid enough data on that. All I know is that all my friends - who I started the game with - quit because the quest grind wasn't worth getting to end-game. So according to my statistic: Including me, that's 11 out 12 who quit between VR1 and 8. If you count me not playing for a year as "quitting", that makes a perfect 12 out of 12. Now, I should mention that the majority of us were veterans in the MMO scene, so we're used to leveling, whether we enjoy it or not. I doubt it's this bad across the game's communities, but that's a scary individual statistic for a game company.

The reason why you haven't heard anyone complain could just as well mean that most who complained, already quit. Now, having "some" percentage of all new players quit because of something like hundreds of quests (or alternatively mob grinding) being mandatory instead of optional isn't very good for the longevity of the game.

By removing Veteran Ranks, they effectively reduce the mandatory questing by approximately 66% (1 alliance instead of 3), discounting main story and guild quests of course. If this change will bring "some" of the old players back and prevent "some" of new players from quitting so early, I'd say it's a win for all of us as it gives this game more income and thus more resources to build more of our beloved content.

Now, have a good day, sir.

12/12 you say quit because the grind was too much, or was it because you are all MMO vets and could see what kind of end game there was to look forward to? Other MMO'S have vast end game for people who are looking for that sort of content, and those kind of players would have left regardless of the Vet ranking system.

Even if the removal of Vet Ranks goes through I doubt those same people want to come back to a game that offers so little end game opportunities. Imo they should FOCUS all resources to adding things, not revamping current systems.

wayfarerx

Ritzey01 wrote: »

I do not understand all the fussing and whining! Yea, it takes a while, but if you dont want to play the game as intended, dont play. Its very simple.

You tread into dangerous territory when talking about "playing the game as intended." In beta there were no vet ranks, no silver and gold. They were (sloppily) patched in at the last minute to appease players that wanted to do everything on one character. So I would hardly classify them as central, intentional aspects of the game.

Likewise, ZOS "intends" to remove vet levels all together. Maybe having a range of progression options once you hit 50 was/is "intended" and the last year and a half of this VR nonsense is just the hangover from a hasty decision that was made when they were rushing to launch.

rfennell_ESO

Best part of this is the solution will probably be max level is 66.

Xjcon

Double post.

Aerieth

Xjcon wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

Aerieth wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

Exactly, I 100% agree with you. Especially since the forums are a place where most people only visit to complain about something they don't like. I can only imagine how many active players are happily playing the game as is and would be upset by the removal of VR.

Conversely, imagine how many are silently cursing VR but don't see the point of complaining on the forum about it.

ZOS themselves are the only ones who have any sort of reliable metrics on this, probably based on how many characters / accounts get abandoned before reaching the level cap.

If I were to imagine this based off of my experience in game, I would have to say next to none. I know that's not true, I am sure there are many, but not near as many as the one who would want them to stay. I play with many different people every week and I have not heard anyone complain about VR in months.

Eric Wrobel mentions this on ESO Live - Episode 27 - Oct. 15th (00:24:27)

Here's what he said:
"We noticed that some players were dropping off at Veteran Rank 1, because it took a really long time to get to Veteran Rank 2 and they had to go all the way to 16. So sort of our first step of improving that - with a previous update - was, we made it take less experience to get a Veteran Rank and we also made it so that when you're doing veteran quests you get more quests (he probably meant: Experience)"

O you mean that update a couple of months ago that I haven't heard anyone complain about VR removal since? The only complaint I ever hear is people wanting more new content. As I said before, them trying to remove VR is taking resources away from that. A lot of people like the way VR and CP work together. Just make the ranks even easier to obtain and everyone is happy and we can move forward.

Fact of the matter is that some players quit the game at Veteran Rank 1, because of the system. Neither of us have definitive data on the whole player base. Only ZOS has solid enough data on that. All I know is that all my friends - who I started the game with - quit because the quest grind wasn't worth getting to end-game. So according to my statistic: Including me, that's 11 out 12 who quit between VR1 and 8. If you count me not playing for a year as "quitting", that makes a perfect 12 out of 12. Now, I should mention that the majority of us were veterans in the MMO scene, so we're used to leveling, whether we enjoy it or not. I doubt it's this bad across the game's communities, but that's a scary individual statistic for a game company.

The reason why you haven't heard anyone complain could just as well mean that most who complained, already quit. Now, having "some" percentage of all new players quit because of something like hundreds of quests (or alternatively mob grinding) being mandatory instead of optional isn't very good for the longevity of the game.

By removing Veteran Ranks, they effectively reduce the mandatory questing by approximately 66% (1 alliance instead of 3), discounting main story and guild quests of course. If this change will bring "some" of the old players back and prevent "some" of new players from quitting so early, I'd say it's a win for all of us as it gives this game more income and thus more resources to build more of our beloved content.

Now, have a good day, sir.

12/12 you say quit because the grind was too much, or was it because you are all MMO vets and could see what kind of end game there was to look forward to? Other MMO'S have vast end game for people who are looking for that sort of content, and those kind of players would have left regardless of the Vet ranking system.

Even if the removal of Vet Ranks goes through I doubt those same people want to come back to a game that offers so little end game opportunities. Imo they should FOCUS all resources to adding things, not revamping current systems.

We all knew there were Veteran Dungeons. We all knew the "adventure zone" was coming, along with trials (raids). That's enough PvE end-game content to last for a good while. The end-game has usually been somewhat lacking in the beginning of MMOs. At least the ones we've played. The lack of more content at the time didn't really bother us.

Sidney

So basically people just don't want to level. Don't play the game then. Unbelievable...

NadiusMaximus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

jf_sauveb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, the plan is still to remove Veteran Ranks. We'll talk more about the details of this as we get closer to implementation.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Implementation of what? Is it possible to have an estimate of when because I've been waiting for this to happen since you guys released them...

Thanks

The removal of Veteran Ranks requires a lot more work than just, well, removing them. There's impact to itemization, quests, and dungeons to name a few. Again, we'll talk more about all this later next year.

That's what she said.

Last year. Since then two more were added. So? I don't get it.

Blud

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, the plan is still to remove Veteran Ranks. We'll talk more about the details of this as we get closer to implementation.

Glad to hear it. I hope we can level without having to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold each time as well.

I_killed_Vivec

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ritzey01 wrote: »

To sum up what everyone who wants VR's removed:

Its too hard, we have to kill too many things and do too many quest, do things that i dont want to. BOOWAAAAA!!!

LMAO!!


Sorry, thats probably trolling. It just infuriates me when i few whiners want everything to change to suit them, no matter what everyone else who is happy with the game the way it is, feels about.

For the one millionth time, we don't want to skip to the end, we want to be able to play different parts of the game in parallel. After 50 you can solo quest in silver & gold OR play in Cyrodiil without being woefully underleveled OR run vet dungeons and get meaningful rewards. Maybe even *gasp* switch back and forth during one play session.

Why is grinding 15 vr levels some kind of badge of honor? It's not difficult it's just boring and time consuming.

It isn't grinding VR levels - levelling up is just something that happens as you play the game. Just like earning CP.

But you want to get to level 50 and play in Cyrodiil or solo quest without being woefully underlevelled? Ignoring battle-levelling, that means that you want ALL progression for EVERYONE to stop at level 50. No progression at all - otherwise some people might progress faster and become more powerful than you. Vet dungeons would have to cater for the weakest, or you'd be here again complaining "I'm level 50, but it's too hard".

But then people with loads of CP will be complaining that vet dungeons have been nerfed and are too easy.

There are people with over a thousand CP. Compared to these your brand new level 50 with no CP will be woefully underpowered - even with a cap of 501 you will still be far behind. So no, you can't run vet dungeons or be competitive in Cyrodiil, unless you want to make everyone equal.

There is no way round it. You can either have progression OR competitiveness.

You want the game to stop at level 50, other people want it to continue indefinitely...

Rogue78

redspecter23 wrote: »

Vet levels would never have needed to be removed if level caps didn't keep increasing while simultaneously providing a lack of content to justify those increases as well as nerfing xp repeatedly in areas like Craglorn, which only made the xp problem worse. If we had enough reliable ways to level ourselves through vet ranks at a reasonable pace, I don't think anyone would have ever asked to have them removed. Nobody and I mean nobody that does the content in Craglorn has any illusions that the xp they are gaining is fast or efficient at all. #ImproveCraglornXP

Removing vet levels now is a nice gesture, but still doesn't fix the fact that the majority of our veteran content only goes up to V10 (hopefully fixed somewhat with Orsinium) and Craglorn XP is so low you can probably farm skeevers in a V1 zone and earn xp faster. There is such an emphasis on removing the ability to level efficiently that ZOS dug themselves into a hole where people demand the removal of vet ranks, not because the system is poor but the xp to supplement that system is broken in about 10 different ways. Removing the vet ranks now doesn't solve these underlying xp issues at all.

I think you pretty much nailed it. People always complained about the grind and in the past I could see why. VR were a huge pain early after release, when they still required VP instead of XP and a lot more per level that it used to be even before IC. Right now they seem fine to me though. I recently lplayed another character through the vet levels and was amazed at how quick my progress was. I think i grinded a total of around 2 levels worth of XP, compared to 6+ before the IC patch.

Continue to improved the XP rewards for quests/mobs across all zones and the problem will fix itself. I also agree on unlocking silver and gold zones as soon as you hit VR1. I really don't see a reason to gate silver behind the Coldhardbour and gold behind all the silver questlines. You could also reward the player with XP for more activites, like crafting, harvesting etc. GW2 did that very well.

In conclusion, please don't remove the VRs, I don't want to be max level in less than 10h, I like progression, leveling up is rewarding. I like level cap increases maybe once a year, new gear, new fancy stuff.

You should SERIOUSLY re-balance most of the gear catalogue though, scale it up and make it viable.

RaVing_LooNy_x

What will happen do mine ? I have 3 vet characters all that xp I've earn is wasted ?

Aerieth

RaVing_LooNy_x wrote: »

What will happen do mine ? I have 3 vet characters all that xp I've earn is wasted ?

You got your Champion Points, don't you? That's where the experience went. Some of us have multiple VR16 and don't mind losing the ranks at all.

wayfarerx

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ritzey01 wrote: »

To sum up what everyone who wants VR's removed:

Its too hard, we have to kill too many things and do too many quest, do things that i dont want to. BOOWAAAAA!!!

LMAO!!


Sorry, thats probably trolling. It just infuriates me when i few whiners want everything to change to suit them, no matter what everyone else who is happy with the game the way it is, feels about.

For the one millionth time, we don't want to skip to the end, we want to be able to play different parts of the game in parallel. After 50 you can solo quest in silver & gold OR play in Cyrodiil without being woefully underleveled OR run vet dungeons and get meaningful rewards. Maybe even *gasp* switch back and forth during one play session.

Why is grinding 15 vr levels some kind of badge of honor? It's not difficult it's just boring and time consuming.

It isn't grinding VR levels - levelling up is just something that happens as you play the game. Just like earning CP.

Well I've done it a few times over now and it certainly feels like a grind to me. It demotivates me from playing other alts because it's so tedious. I have two alts at V1 and when I see them in the character select screen I think "V1 Stonefalls? Ugh."

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

But you want to get to level 50 and play in Cyrodiil or solo quest without being woefully underlevelled? Ignoring battle-levelling, that means that you want ALL progression for EVERYONE to stop at level 50. No progression at all - otherwise some people might progress faster and become more powerful than you. Vet dungeons would have to cater for the weakest, or you'd be here again complaining "I'm level 50, but it's too hard".

What? I don't want ALL progression to stop at 50, like you say that would be lame. I don't care if others are more powerful than me or if dungeons are hard, I actually enjoy challenging encounters in both PvE and PvP. I have not yet cleared either of the new dungeons on vet mode and have not complained about it once because I like having something to work towards.

What I don't like is having a character kill a daedric prince, save the world, and then be told to go chase guar around Morrowind. I want to beat the game and then, you know, play endgame stuff without feeling like I need to slog through silver and gold first.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

But then people with loads of CP will be complaining that vet dungeons have been nerfed and are too easy.

There are people with over a thousand CP. Compared to these your brand new level 50 with no CP will be woefully underpowered - even with a cap of 501 you will still be far behind. So no, you can't run vet dungeons or be competitive in Cyrodiil, unless you want to make everyone equal.

I imagine the champion point cap / catchup mechanic will mitigate much of this imbalance but we'll have to see over the next couple of months.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

There is no way round it. You can either have progression OR competitiveness.

You want the game to stop at level 50, other people want it to continue indefinitely...

I want VERTICAL LEVELING to stop at 50 and have multiple different progression systems to pick up where leveling leaves off. Progression is fine as a general idea, the implementation of it in the form of vet ranks is poor, however.

Sparky617

I don't see why VR ranks need to be removed in the first place. They have been there since the beginning. Why rebuild the game? Just fix the stuff that's wrong with it and continue to build with the foundation that you have already built

SirDopey

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ritzey01 wrote: »

To sum up what everyone who wants VR's removed:

Its too hard, we have to kill too many things and do too many quest, do things that i dont want to. BOOWAAAAA!!!

LMAO!!


Sorry, thats probably trolling. It just infuriates me when i few whiners want everything to change to suit them, no matter what everyone else who is happy with the game the way it is, feels about.

For the one millionth time, we don't want to skip to the end, we want to be able to play different parts of the game in parallel. After 50 you can solo quest in silver & gold OR play in Cyrodiil without being woefully underleveled OR run vet dungeons and get meaningful rewards. Maybe even *gasp* switch back and forth during one play session.

Why is grinding 15 vr levels some kind of badge of honor? It's not difficult it's just boring and time consuming.

Exactly, boring and time consuming, so why not just remove it and be done with it? Once you've done Cadwell's gold once there's no enjoyment in doing it again

bedlom

Right now im finding it hard to play, I feel in limbo.

I was enjoying ranking up my vet and now I dont know if there is even any point.

Lylith

Aerieth wrote: »

RaVing_LooNy_x wrote: »

What will happen do mine ? I have 3 vet characters all that xp I've earn is wasted ?

You got your Champion Points, don't you? That's where the experience went. Some of us have multiple VR16 and don't mind losing the ranks at all.

and some of us do.

afaic, zos should focus the time and considerable effort this will require on something more useful. there have been some excellent suggestions offered in this thread.

jmho.

Nolphi

The changes will be great. I have 2 V16s and now it will be easy to level up alts. I don't think the grind from v1 to v16 ads much in terms of user experience or sense of accomplishment. I would much rather spend that time on honing and refining my new end game toons. I agree with what they shared in the last ESO Live episode that the current system has too many layers with 1-50, V1 to V16 and the CP system on the side. Going 1 to 50 and then having the CP system there for near limitless but slow progression is enough. First time players are still likely to do all the content to get to CP160 or higher and players who already have end game characters will be more motivated to start alts and develop those alts to properly geared and specced end game characters. All good!

Nolphi

To add to what I already wrote: I used to only have a NB DPS and thats all I really understood about the game and the skill mechanics. I learned so much in creating a v16 Templar healer. I now have a v1 DK tank I am building up and a level 28 stamina sorc and really enjoying learning how to play these classes. The fact that I dont have to v1 to v16 grind both these new toons is great!

Islyn

jf_sauveb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, the plan is still to remove Veteran Ranks. We'll talk more about the details of this as we get closer to implementation.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Implementation of what? Is it possible to have an estimate of when because I've been waiting for this to happen since you guys released them...

Thanks

Why?

In other words how do you (likely incorrectly) believe it will benefit you?

Magdalina

Islyn wrote: »

jf_sauveb16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, the plan is still to remove Veteran Ranks. We'll talk more about the details of this as we get closer to implementation.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Implementation of what? Is it possible to have an estimate of when because I've been waiting for this to happen since you guys released them...

Thanks

Why?

In other words how do you (likely incorrectly) believe it will benefit you?

It will mainly benefit those of us that want to roll alts. I'd also think they're going to leave Cadwell's Silver and Gold there, just optional for those who haven't done them yet and want them.

But yes, it will benefit me personally greatly if I don't have to grind 16 vet levels after finishing actual leveling every time I want a new character. I have 2 v16 and 1 v13 characters atm, leveling #2 to v16 has been a pain and I just cannot bring myself to level the third one anymore. Any time I think of another alt - something possibly fun, enjoyable and keeping me playing the game after I do all the content - I just remember Cadwell's Horrors and it's like "NO WAY".
And after being here since launch some of us do want >1 character.

Uriel_Nocturne

SneaK wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, the plan is still to remove Veteran Ranks. We'll talk more about the details of this as we get closer to implementation.

Well, I think that's a horrible idea.

I agree.

Vet Ranks need to stay.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Hey hey, hoe-hoe, the VR system's got to go.

Gear progression and Champion points are a solid method of improvement, I'm a big fan of the eventual removal.

This^ Greater customization this way.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Powtreeman wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yes, the plan is still to remove Veteran Ranks. We'll talk more about the details of this as we get closer to implementation.

Good to know I wasted my time working my ass off for vet rank 16

only a waste if u didn't earn any cp

Uriel_Nocturne

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

right now VR are not the issue, its CP, oh and the fact then when you finish Cadwells Gold you are around VR11-12 and no content left to level in, Craglorn is group only, and if you can get one you are forced to do PvP dailies to level.

Stil don't get how poeple manage to run out of quest. I hit level vet14 at the start of the last zone of Cadwell silver.
Still didn't do Cadwell Gold

Honestly I don't either. I just got my 4th DC alt to Vet 15 and I'm still in Reaper's March. It got to be the people you see running through dragging enemies instead of just killing them. If you make it through Cadwell's gold without hitting at least vet 14 you skipped a lot.

Agreed.

I've "just started" Cadwell's Gold. I'm getting to the last few areas in northern Auridon, and I'm just a hair away from VR11. By my math (and the fact that I crawl all over every area of every Zone to make sure I'm not skipping any quests), I'll have VR15 (possibly VR16) before I ever hit Raper's March. Hell, I'll probably hit VR16 while still in Malabar Tor.

Then I'll still have the PvE Quests in Cyrodiil to run, Craglorn, and Orsinium that I haven't touched yet.

So, those detractors must be skipping huge chunks of each zone.

There's not a single damn thing wrong with the VR levels. Zeni just made the mistake of listening to the very, very vocal minority of impatient players. Had those people been able to control themselves, they would have found that there is still leagues of Quests and other content still in the game.

Just by skimming the Forums, it's easy to see that more people want the Vet Ranks to stay than be removed.

Removing them just to appease the few will only hurt the majority.

Uriel_Nocturne

Farorin wrote: »

The sooner the better for VRs to be removed. I hate them with a passion, one of the things that kills my desire to play this game.

I don't want to grind (and going through cadwells silver/gold or any other quests IS grinding if you have done it before). I just want to be able to play the content of the game without worrying that I will not be competitive with most of my alts just because they aren't max level yet.

And you think that basing the entire "end-game" off of CP's won't involve more grinding than with the Vet Ranks!?

LMAO


Once everything is based off of CP's, you'll see how much worse the grind gets.