"Nerf cloak" ... But it's stamblade damage that is op ... (explanation)

KenaPKK

People are complaining that nightblades are OP. They call for cloak nerfs, but their death recap screenshots all show Ambush and Surprise Attack spam...

They are getting rekt by STAMINA damage, which is favored by the game:

• % bonus weapon dmg from medium armor and Flawless DB passives
• weapon dmg glyphs on weapons
• mass availability of weapon crit in itemization
• Hardy CP cutting magic damage with no comparable CP for physical damage

The course of events leading to this irrational witch hunting goes as follows:

• pug gets rekt by stamblade's high damage, is mad
• pug fights a mageblade, who he is able to survive against and even gets low
• pug fails to counter mageblade's cloak, so mageblade is able to escape, accepting that he has lost the fight
• pug wants the kill because GRRRR I GOT REKT BY THAT OTHER NB
• pug writes forum post about op cloak, failing to remember that the stamblade's damage is what caused him to be upset in the first place

People are NOT getting rekt by magicka nightblades' cloak spam or damage.

Magicka nightblades will take the brunt of a cloak nerf, but they are already struggling in PvP right now. Stamina damage is the problem, NOT CLOAK.

A nerf to cloak will NOT change nightblades' dominance in PvP because STAMINA nightblades are the problem, NOT magicka ones.

L2p everyone.

SleepyTroll

If this is true just lol this is as bad as that guy saying WB was an aoe when really his friend got hit with destructive reach lol people call for nerfs and they don't even know wtf is really going on.

rokrdt05

I also think what a lot of people are feeling with magicka nightblades is the "perma" cloak.

I see many people complain that they just run if it gets to tough or they are outnumbered. However there are so many counters to cloak right now.

Some of the more popular counters:

• Any type of AoE's (I.E. Steel Tornado)
• Sorc Streak
• Radiant Magelight
• Detect pots
• NB Mark

This works for any NB stamina or magicka, but ZoS is most likely going to put a magicka regen nerf while in cloak because of all the QQ'ing going on in the forums currently.

I've been playing a magicka nightblade for some time now and I mostly use cloak as a purge rather than something I use to fight. Sure there are times when I see that the fight is not in my favor and I try to bounce... sometimes I get rekt by the counters other times I can escape. It just comes down to how you use your counters.

I hope they reconsider any future nerfs to cloak.

tennant94

KenaPKK wrote: »

They are getting rekt by STAMINA damage, which is favored by the game:

• % bonus weapon dmg from medium armor and Flawless DB passives
• weapon dmg glyphs on weapons
• mass availability of weapon crit in itemization
• Hardy CP cutting magic damage with no comparable CP for physical damage

They are NOT getting rekt by magicka nightblades' cloak spam or damage.

Magicka nightblades will take the brunt of a cloak nerf, and they are hurting in PvP right now. Stamina damage is the problem, NOT CLOAK.

A nerf to cloak will NOT change nightblades' dominance in PvP because STAMINA nightblades are the problem, NOT magicka ones.

Preach it brother

KenaPKK

SleepyTroll wrote: »

If this is true just lol this is as bad as that guy saying WB was an aoe when really his friend got hit with destructive reach lol people call for nerfs and they don't even know wtf is really going on.

Right??? >.<

tennant94 wrote: »

Preach it brother

rokrdt05 wrote: »

#counterplay
I hope they reconsider any future nerfs to cloak.

Thank you all for the positive responses. This really is a problem with balance... The vocal majority is being irrational. We cannot let their whining influence the game in a detrimental way.

Stamina damage needs to be brought in line (as it always has). Don't let magicka NB die as a casualty.

Isbilen

Sorry but somewhere between the ability to go completely invisible at will with sprint speed, perma-block in light armour, jump off keeps or cliffs and teleport right back up, an unblockable area CC effect, and just in general being better than the other classes at pretty much everything in PvP other than healing, the class just becomes a laughable easy mode.

KenaPKK

Isbilen wrote: »

Sorry but somewhere between the ability to go completely invisible at will with sprint speed, perma-block in light armour, jump off keeps or cliffs and teleport right back up, an unblockable area CC effect, and just in general being better than the other classes at pretty much everything in PvP other than healing, the class just becomes a laughable easy mode.

You exaggerated these, but you can state just the positives of any class and make them sound op.

And your last statement is just hyperbole and logical fallacy. In fact, your whole post is a joke. L2p son.

Isbilen

KenaPKK wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

Sorry but somewhere between the ability to go completely invisible at will with sprint speed, perma-block in light armour, jump off keeps or cliffs and teleport right back up, an unblockable area CC effect, and just in general being better than the other classes at pretty much everything in PvP other than healing, the class just becomes a laughable easy mode.

You exaggerated these, but you can state just the positives of any class and make them sound op.

And your last statement is just hyperbole and logical fallacy. In fact, your whole post is a joke. L2p son.

If anything, my post is under-exaggerated if that's correct wording. Let me go over my points:

- Cloak isn't just the ability to go completely invisible at will with full speed, it also removes DoTs, and comes with other buffs that are active for Nightblades while invisible.

- Nightblade tanks have throughout 1.5, 2.0 and now so far through 2.1 made the best tanks in PvP: sapsapsapsap!

- The teleport morph of the shade summoning skill... How do you L2P against that? You either follow the NB and he teleports back to his shade and has successfuly escaped, or you camp his shadow and he has successfuly escaped.

- As for Mass Hysteria, there is hundreds of threads about the power of this ability. The ability completely shuts down the tank role in PvP, and no, you can not compare it to other classes CC that go through block, because those actually break when the target takes damage.

And let's look at the normal argument NBs like to throw around: "zOMG no heal or shieldzes!"
Guess what, even your Swallow Soul is more effective than Green Dragon Blood, and Dragonknights/Sorcerers have to make up for the lack of a class-based heal too.

Alucardo

Isbilen wrote: »

Sorry but somewhere between the ability to go completely invisible at will with sprint speed, perma-block in light armour, jump off keeps or cliffs and teleport right back up, an unblockable area CC effect, and just in general being better than the other classes at pretty much everything in PvP other than healing, the class just becomes a laughable easy mode.

They can also shoot lasers from their eyes

KenaPKK

WTB popcorn.

Lifecode666

Stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times, then out of magica.
If a stam nightblade run mass hysteria and double take aswell, then even less magica.

1Grumpy_dunmer1

Lifecode666 wrote: »

Stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times, then out of magica.
If a stam nightblade run mass hysteria and double take aswell, then even less magica.

A Stam blade can also kill you in 2 sec. Have yet to see a magicka night blade do that this patch.

JDar

1Grumpy_dunmer1 wrote: »

Lifecode666 wrote: »

Stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times, then out of magica.
If a stam nightblade run mass hysteria and double take aswell, then even less magica.

A Stam blade can also kill you in 2 sec. Have yet to see a magicka night blade do that this patch.

If you time your proxy det and ulti right along with a Concealed Weapon hit from cloak with the Major Sorcery buff, you can drop some pretty good damage. But it's not just "see target -- Ambush -- Surprise Attack until it's dead" like a lot of stamblades do. You actually have to time things correctly and use cloak to proc certain passives, like Master Assassin and Veiled Strike's CC. Otherwise, it's very hard to get Lotus Fan and Concealed Weapon to do as much damage as Ambush and Surprise Attack.

Stamina nightblades don't use cloak like that. They don't need to. I on the other hand have to cloak up to a target so I can use Concealed Weapon properly. Not all of us are vampires, keep in mind. Stamina nightblades use it to run but magicka nightblades have to use it offensively.

I realize a lot of people don't understand these subtle differences because they have never played a magicka build NB, and just like OP says, they are getting eaten by stamblades mostly (there really aren't that many magicka blades in PvP, even fewer really good ones), so they think, hmm...hey cloak is the first thing I think of when I think of nightblades, let's nerf that.

ChefZero

Melee Magickablade eats magicka like popcorn. So they need much sustain for longer fights. More sustain -> less damage

Aenlir

Having played both magicka nightblade and stamina as sustain builds with (kind of) low damage this patch, in my opinion stamina is slightly better open world while magicka nb is slightly superior in 1v1s with the proper build. If you are saying magicka nb is struggling in pvp,that is really inaccurate. The only thing that makes them struggle is shield breaker from multiple enemies. on the topic of cloak, it is too strong right now. I think they should just buff detect pots again, that way all classes can achieve something similar to piercing mark, the only difference being the pots only detect for the person who used them. Also, about Stam nb damage, it's not as far off from magicka as people make it. I do agree about the champion system passives should help mitigate physical damage better, but for now resistant and impen are your friends . Also remember 95% of Stam nb are glass cannon and super easy to kill if you detect them. Just remember this isn't a 1v1 game and most imbalances can be overcome with skill and a proper build. -Aenlir

Eejit1331

Is this post for real or is th OP just a troll? Either way I got a good laugh out of the BS he wrote up. Haha.

Jitterbug

IF they went ahead with some sort of nerf for Cloak, what would it be, and how hard would we really be hit by it?

If for example it got the Streak treatment, how F'ed would we be, in you guys' expert opinions?

CP5

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Is this post for real or is th OP just a troll? Either way I got a good laugh out of the BS he wrote up. Haha.

It was mentioned that the change may happen. No timeframe was given, no direction the 'nerf' would go, and it didn't even seem they would go through with it.

Jitterbug wrote: »

IF they went ahead with some sort of nerf for Cloak, what would it be, and how hard would we really be hit by it?

If for example it got the Streak treatment, how F'ed would we be, in you guys' expert opinions?

Well if people can still complain about sorc's bolt escaping after all the nerfs it got i'm sure one nerf wouldn't be the end of days for nightblades everywhere.

Derra

Jitterbug wrote: »

IF they went ahead with some sort of nerf for Cloak, what would it be, and how hard would we really be hit by it?

If for example it got the Streak treatment, how F'ed would we be, in you guys' expert opinions?

As a sorc: You really don´t want the streak treatment on cloak. It would shatter stamblades ability to use the skill (as there is no reliable way of telling when certain counters are used - hello detect pot).

If at all: Only give cloak a penalty when it´s actually working and your character is hidden for EVERYONE.


Meanwhile i´m missing streak as an option to counter cloak. It used to work but with the stacking increase you can´t really bother anymore to use it for this.

kadar

A nerf to cloak will NOT change nightblades' dominance in PvP because STAMINA nightblades are the problem, NOT magicka ones.

It may tho. StamBlades use Cloak as a reset, to recover after a failed attack. We don't have the mitagation, sheilds, or heals, to go toe to toe for a prolonged fight like other Builds. A nerf to Cloak will reduce the already limited amount of times a StamBlade can cast Cloak. MageBlades may still be able to spam it, especially if the Nerf is a %Magicka Regen reduction while stealthed or something.

PS

The course of events leading to this irrational witch hunting goes as follows:

This is painfully accurate. I got a good LOL.^

CP5

The_Outsider wrote: »

A nerf to cloak will NOT change nightblades' dominance in PvP because STAMINA nightblades are the problem, NOT magicka ones.

It may tho. StamBlades use Cloak as a reset, to recover after a failed attack. We don't have the mitagation, sheilds, or heals, to go toe to toe for a prolonged fight like other Builds. A nerf to Cloak will reduce the already limited amount of times a StamBlade can cast Cloak. MageBlades may still be able to spam it, especially if the Nerf is a %Magicka Regen reduction while stealthed or something.

PS

The course of events leading to this irrational witch hunting goes as follows:

This is painfully accurate. I got a good LOL.^

Please elaborate on that one. I see it thrown around a lot and want someone else to give me their opinion on that bit of info. As for the heals, nb's are well equipped to do 2 things, quickly burst targets down or outlast them, prolonged fights are what nb's make when they cloak.

kadar

Well if people can still complain about sorc's bolt escaping after all the nerfs it got i'm sure one nerf wouldn't be the end of days for nightblades everywhere.

My first reaction, "People still complain about BE!?!?" Second reaction..."Of course they do."

Ara_Valleria

At the end of the day ZoS will look for the easiest band-aid fix to any problem.

Fix stamina skills or Nerf cloak ?

Nerf cloak ofc !! Its less work.

jelliedsoup

A build should be able to kill you in 2 seconds.

This build also gets killed in 2 seconds.

Ara_Valleria

SleepyTroll wrote: »

If this is true just lol this is as bad as that guy saying WB was an aoe when really his friend got hit with destructive reach lol people call for nerfs and they don't even know wtf is really going on.

hahaha xDDD

nordickittyhawk

oh look another butt hurt player getting killed by nightblade... how will zenimax fix the rouge/assasin class that has high crit n can run away just like every other rouge out there >,> pffff....

dodgehopper_ESO

Instead of nerfing Nightblades they just need to improve game systems and resolve some core weaknesses in the Templar and DK classes. I'm very happy that finally nightblade has come together like it currently is. The class finally feels more or less like what it should have early on. There are a few abilities I miss, like haste, but otherwise I'm really happy with it.

Huckdabuck

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

oh look another butt hurt player getting killed by nightblade... how will zenimax fix the rouge/assasin class that has high crit n can run away just like every other rouge out there >,> pffff....

Oh look another butt hurt player who couldn't kill a sorc.... how will Zenimax fix the mage/sorcerer class that has high magicka n can blink away just like every other sorc out there >.> pfffff......I WONDER?

Waffennacht

Just because your build doesn't use cloak to its highest utility does not discredit the claims of others' about the move.

Example: just because my build can't abuse WB it does not mean WB is not abused

Edit: another example: not all sorcs stacked shields, but all shields still got the 50% nerf.

Force-Siphon

Yeah nerfing cloak is not the answer to the issues that people have been having. Nerfing cloak will continue putting magicka play styles in the trash bin outside of Sorc when in fact stamina play styles should be brought in line. One change I could see is make stam heals break cloak like mag heals do if cloak is such an issue from stamblades...but the reality is that surprise attack needs to be tuned clearly....I have seen higher numbers from SA than WB in fights at times. I don't think it's an issue exclusive to NBs tho, clearly stamina in a lot of ways is king play style now. I think across the board it should be tuned down to balance with magicka. I'm not for blanket knee-jerk nerfs, but tuning needs to happen. What I see happening though is that like Sorc and dk, nb is going to get the Nerfs next and we will have new balance issues.

And 1 shot builds are not exclusive to NB these days... Seen quite a few bow using DKs trying to do this too lately...name a mag class that can create a 1 shot build it's not gonna happen...and the sad part is that zenimax tried to do away with 1 shotting with damage reduction lol. Yes magicka has more utility, but ppl who play mag also need to kill people and not be 1 shot.

Tannakaobi

Jitterbug wrote: »

IF they went ahead with some sort of nerf for Cloak, what would it be, and how hard would we really be hit by it?

If for example it got the Streak treatment, how F'ed would we be, in you guys' expert opinions?

It won't make any difference. Good players will adapt poor player will continue being cannon fodder. Average players will be worse off, but .. meh!