Give Templar's Mobility/Stronger Defense.

Zinaroth

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

How many Daedic Summoning power can stamina Sorcerers use, Stamina Nightblades with Siphon every stamina build has a whole tree that's a wipe outside of one power.

My point with all the extra info is some of learned how to play the game without min/maxing using Tactics that played to our strengths. So is not 100% equal playing like a Nightblade full on burst damage doesn't work out well on your Templar life's not fair. I play my Nightblade burstly like a Nightblade and Sorcerer full burst and I play my Templar and Dragon Knight to outlast my enemies I play to my strengths.

QQing cause you can't play every class on your Templar is pointless.

I didn't QQ. I dismantled your entire list of arguments. Which were incoherent at best.

Sorcerers have Surge, Bolt Escape and Lightning Form, all really good even as stamina. Stuff to use your magicka on. They are pretty bread and butter even, I am sure @FENGRUSH could agree here as I see him running using those exact three abilities to reach godlike mobility and defense/survivability. But it doesn't stop there...

Sorcerer summoning tree you say? Okay sure let's go into more details with yet another class, here we go:
Bound Armaments give armor, max stamina and increased heavy attack damage
Greater Storm Atronach ulti is still a nice ulti, albeit you could argue there are better for damage.
A passive that grants 15% ulti cost reduction
A passive that gives 20% increased health and stamina regen with a summoning skill slotted
The last passive alone makes the atronach worth having slotted on your front bar, as we can also see @FENGRUSH doing on his countless streams.

I don't think anyone here can dismiss his knowledge and capability or experience with PvP. Does that mean sorcs are perfect? No I am sure they would like a class stamina damage ability. But this topic is about templars. You just brought it up.

You cannot play a templar to outlast anyone, since every class in this game has better rescource management than templars. As stamina you have to kill or be killed, except we have less ways to outplay our opponent, since not a whole lot of our arsenal, and only a couple of passives, help us.
As magicka, sure you can spam heals, but that is really all the defensive capabilities magicka templars have that's explicit to the class. And even then, you end up standing in your Rune Focus, spamming Breath of Life, because if you stop, you die. A well played and build sorc or NB can even out damage it through use of healing debuff and insane burst capability. Throw in a CC during a moment of the templar not holding block or capitalizing on CC immunity and rekt.

DKs CAN outlast, as magicka and stamina, because they have an awesome arrange of tools to keep them alive. Want me to go into details on why that is aswell?

Stamina templars are far worse off than magicka templars though, doesn't mean both of them don't need help, 'cause they do.

Now, throw a magicka templar into a group and we have a completely different story. But I would still like to be able to pull my own weight. I am sure a lot of PvPers don't always have buddies waiting around to carry them around in Cyrodiil.

I realize DKs also have problems carrying their own weight atm, and I don't mean to undertone their issues. But again this is a thread about templars, and I do think DKs are still better off right now than we are.

Actually, every single class has been better off than the templar since launch day.

Go to any dueling tournament or just a normal dueling session with 1v1 fights and you will get the picture; a LOT (and I mean A TON) of NBs and Sorcs, a handful of DKS and maybe 1-2 Templars. It all speaks for itself. Most people who love PvP and who rolled Templar in the beginning quickly realized how subpar they were if they wanted to do anything outside of healing their group mates and rerolled. Up until 1.6 they played DK and some Sorc. And until now Sorcs or NB.

But feel free to get back to me if there's anything else you would like me to go into depth with. I don't mind comparing the templar to other classes, because when you boil it down to what you get from the class skill line passives, and what tools each class has at it's disposal, Templars are dead last, at every point, except if you only look at it through the eyes of a group leader who needs a healer.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

My Magic Dragon Knight uses Chains so yea I single you out or I get pulled to you both suit me. You will never convince me that you can't use Quick Cloak it's 3k last for 15 seconds 2 medium (6% stamina cost reduction and regen) and plus CP stamina cost reduction no way you can't use that power.

Who uses 2 medium armor AND uses CP points on stamina cost reduction if you play as magicka? Or do you just have a ton of excess CPs?
At max you would use 1h1M5L for the 6% undaunted bonus.
But sure you could use Quick Cloak if (and that's a big IF) you run dual wield as a magicka templar. But wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to just to have access to it? Kind of like the Sorc or NB?

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Zinaroth wrote: »

As magicka, sure you can spam heals, but that is really all the defensive capabilities magicka templars have that's explicit to the class.

What? No class is this game is completely self-sustaining just off of Class Abilities. If your asking for such a thing, than this isn't about class balance; this is about please Zenimax give us Templars a GODMODE ability in our class tree so we can have another 1 button spamfest while we vegetate cause thinking is just too hard. If it's mobility you want, Zenimax please make us the King of Running Away from every fight we encounter. This is absolutely absurd logic.

Zinaroth wrote: »

And even then, you end up standing in your Rune Focus, spamming Breath of Life, because if you stop, you die. A well played and build sorc or NB can even out damage it through use of healing debuff and insane burst capability.

Yeah because we don't have this ability called Purifying Ritual that clears debuffs while everyone else has to rely of Purge. And honestly if your character has to rely on spamming BoL just to survive when you have Puncturing Sweeps, then honestly you shouldn't be PvPing on that build. Fix your build so this isn't such a PROBLEM!!!!! Hint: Maybe those 5, 6, 7 pieces of cloth isn't such a great idea.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Throw in a CC during a moment of the templar not holding block or capitalizing on CC immunity and rekt.

This can kill any class, so not really a Templar problem. You run out of Stam and get CC'd, you die regardless of your class. I assume I am reading this correctly.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Who uses 2 medium armor AND uses CP points on stamina cost reduction if you play as magicka?

If it works, it works.

Here's my final statement: If you want Mobility, go play a class that has it. Templars don't fit your playstyle and that should be fine, you stated other people have left it: follow them. Stop asking for nonsense cause you refuse to understand what makes a class unique and beg for the ruining of what the MAJORITY of the community already likes and enjoys.

Van_0S

Zinaroth wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

How many Daedic Summoning power can stamina Sorcerers use, Stamina Nightblades with Siphon every stamina build has a whole tree that's a wipe outside of one power.

My point with all the extra info is some of learned how to play the game without min/maxing using Tactics that played to our strengths. So is not 100% equal playing like a Nightblade full on burst damage doesn't work out well on your Templar life's not fair. I play my Nightblade burstly like a Nightblade and Sorcerer full burst and I play my Templar and Dragon Knight to outlast my enemies I play to my strengths.

QQing cause you can't play every class on your Templar is pointless.

I didn't QQ. I dismantled your entire list of arguments. Which were incoherent at best.

Sorcerers have Surge, Bolt Escape and Lightning Form, all really good even as stamina. Stuff to use your magicka on. They are pretty bread and butter even, I am sure @FENGRUSH could agree here as I see him running using those exact three abilities to reach godlike mobility and defense/survivability. But it doesn't stop there...

Sorcerer summoning tree you say? Okay sure let's go into more details with yet another class, here we go:
Bound Armaments give armor, max stamina and increased heavy attack damage
Greater Storm Atronach ulti is still a nice ulti, albeit you could argue there are better for damage.
A passive that grants 15% ulti cost reduction
A passive that gives 20% increased health and stamina regen with a summoning skill slotted
The last passive alone makes the atronach worth having slotted on your front bar, as we can also see @FENGRUSH doing on his countless streams.

I don't think anyone here can dismiss his knowledge and capability or experience with PvP. Does that mean sorcs are perfect? No I am sure they would like a class stamina damage ability. But this topic is about templars. You just brought it up.

You cannot play a templar to outlast anyone, since every class in this game has better rescource management than templars. As stamina you have to kill or be killed, except we have less ways to outplay our opponent, since not a whole lot of our arsenal, and only a couple of passives, help us.
As magicka, sure you can spam heals, but that is really all the defensive capabilities magicka templars have that's explicit to the class. And even then, you end up standing in your Rune Focus, spamming Breath of Life, because if you stop, you die. A well played and build sorc or NB can even out damage it through use of healing debuff and insane burst capability. Throw in a CC during a moment of the templar not holding block or capitalizing on CC immunity and rekt.

DKs CAN outlast, as magicka and stamina, because they have an awesome arrange of tools to keep them alive. Want me to go into details on why that is aswell?

Stamina templars are far worse off than magicka templars though, doesn't mean both of them don't need help, 'cause they do.

Now, throw a magicka templar into a group and we have a completely different story. But I would still like to be able to pull my own weight. I am sure a lot of PvPers don't always have buddies waiting around to carry them around in Cyrodiil.

I realize DKs also have problems carrying their own weight atm, and I don't mean to undertone their issues. But again this is a thread about templars, and I do think DKs are still better off right now than we are.

Actually, every single class has been better off than the templar since launch day.

Go to any dueling tournament or just a normal dueling session with 1v1 fights and you will get the picture; a LOT (and I mean A TON) of NBs and Sorcs, a handful of DKS and maybe 1-2 Templars. It all speaks for itself. Most people who love PvP and who rolled Templar in the beginning quickly realized how subpar they were if they wanted to do anything outside of healing their group mates and rerolled. Up until 1.6 they played DK and some Sorc. And until now Sorcs or NB.

But feel free to get back to me if there's anything else you would like me to go into depth with. I don't mind comparing the templar to other classes, because when you boil it down to what you get from the class skill line passives, and what tools each class has at it's disposal, Templars are dead last, at every point, except if you only look at it through the eyes of a group leader who needs a healer.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

My Magic Dragon Knight uses Chains so yea I single you out or I get pulled to you both suit me. You will never convince me that you can't use Quick Cloak it's 3k last for 15 seconds 2 medium (6% stamina cost reduction and regen) and plus CP stamina cost reduction no way you can't use that power.

Who uses 2 medium armor AND uses CP points on stamina cost reduction if you play as magicka? Or do you just have a ton of excess CPs?
At max you would use 1h1M5L for the 6% undaunted bonus.
But sure you could use Quick Cloak if (and that's a big IF) you run dual wield as a magicka templar. But wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to just to have access to it? Kind of like the Sorc or NB?

So, in short Templars are the weakest class in PvP

Edit:
PvE win

• Templar
• DK

PvP win

• NB
• Sorc

gilbegger

A lot of interesting points being made here...on both sides. This discussion has helped me understand my Templar better.

On a side note..

If Toppling Charge didnt have to have a target to be executed , that would help wouldnt it? (with the mobility issues)

Of course if templars used the ability like Bolt escape/dodge roll then it would incur the same cost increase.

zornyan

jhharvest wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

With 25k hp in cyrodiil, it would take the average weapon damage nb 4-5 suprise attacks, for their 4-5 casts I can cast 1-2 heals and be at fully health constantly.

What gear / stats are you running? Honest question. Because I haven't seen anyone hit for more than 10k with BoL in Cyrodiil and 5 Surprise attacks will kill you.

I really want to improve my templar play but at the moment casting BoL in combat for me means pretty much that I'll just die 3 seconds later. The only way I can fight against NB gankers is if I can break fear fast enough to use Immovable and start jabbing. This takes 2.5 seconds (i.e. 3 Surprise attacks) so I'll be at half hp, then it's just a question of if the NB is stupid enough to stand in place for me to hit all my jabs or not. If they dodge, I lose. If they don't dodge and start dropping low, they'll probably cloak and run.

4 piece martial
3 piece seducers
3 willpower all spell power enchants
2 torugs precise swords

My crit is 52% using shadow mundus with divines gear.

My first 29 cp are in increased healing, 1 cp in spell penetration, and 20 in thumatauge, and 50 in quick recovery.

Outside of cyrodil my crit heals from BoL are approx 25k+. When using purifying ritual for the 30% buff.

In cyrodiil I'm hitting 15-20k easily. Spell power is at 3800, just need to get that kena piece and waiting for julianos set to craft.

Make sure to use rune focus as an armor buff, and keep purifying up, I just cast rune focus every 4-5 seconds whilst running to keep the buff active, soon as I get a whiff of an enemy player, lay down rune focus and purifying light , get them to come to you, just remember inside that are you are king, you want them to play your game, same with sorcerers, use terrain to your advantage, when a sorc bolt escapes don't chase, they want you to.

When a nightblade attacks, make sure to use purifying light to cleanse any debuffs, use javelin/blazing spears to CC them, then go on the offensive, they often have very little defense, soon as they use fear to try and cloak then eacspe, go full offensve, spam jabs, it'll pull them out, by this point you're basically guaranteed the kill.

Radiant is brilliant to use as a finisher, soon as that health bar looks low enough, about 25%, use that to get the kill, I've had all sorts of people try and heal through a radiant when in execute range, it's neigh on impossible, if they dodge then quickly tap block to cancel animation and recast.

Normally use dawn breaker of smiting in IC, it's cheap and hits hard, but my personal favorite is soul assault, you have to time it perfectly, otherwise it's wasted, by knock them down and hit that laser and the damage is huge, my current tooltip for soul assault is 42k! But as I said you have to time it with a javelin so it starts hitting the second they are CC'd to get the full dps out of it.

I've just turned vampire on my character to see how that works, I may swap to bat swam for my ultimate instead, haven't decided yet, I'll see how the extra survivability plays out.

usmcjdking

Zinaroth wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This is one bozo thread.

Templars do not need mobility. We have a ridiculous amount of self sustainment and good damage to boot. The class doesn't need any overaching changes - devs just need to nerf eclipse again and radiant destruction needs to go back to the terrible drawing board it came from.

Sup. I play stamina templar. Don't think any of those changes will pick me up from being rock bottom.

Hey man, there's a bevvy of things that can be tweaked for Templars such as Radiant Aura needs a to give minor/major mending, the Mending passive should increase health/stam regeneration, Eclipse deleted from the game, Sun Shield morphs need to be completely reworked, Solar Barrage is TERRIBAD.

Templars, to be effective, need to use all their resources. The max magicka/stam affecting spell & weapon power NERF has crushed Templars moreso than any other class.

zornyan

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

How many Daedic Summoning power can stamina Sorcerers use, Stamina Nightblades with Siphon every stamina build has a whole tree that's a wipe outside of one power.

My point with all the extra info is some of learned how to play the game without min/maxing using Tactics that played to our strengths. So is not 100% equal playing like a Nightblade full on burst damage doesn't work out well on your Templar life's not fair. I play my Nightblade burstly like a Nightblade and Sorcerer full burst and I play my Templar and Dragon Knight to outlast my enemies I play to my strengths.

QQing cause you can't play every class on your Templar is pointless.

I didn't QQ. I dismantled your entire list of arguments. Which were incoherent at best.

Sorcerers have Surge, Bolt Escape and Lightning Form, all really good even as stamina. Stuff to use your magicka on. They are pretty bread and butter even, I am sure @FENGRUSH could agree here as I see him running using those exact three abilities to reach godlike mobility and defense/survivability. But it doesn't stop there...

Sorcerer summoning tree you say? Okay sure let's go into more details with yet another class, here we go:
Bound Armaments give armor, max stamina and increased heavy attack damage
Greater Storm Atronach ulti is still a nice ulti, albeit you could argue there are better for damage.
A passive that grants 15% ulti cost reduction
A passive that gives 20% increased health and stamina regen with a summoning skill slotted
The last passive alone makes the atronach worth having slotted on your front bar, as we can also see @FENGRUSH doing on his countless streams.

I don't think anyone here can dismiss his knowledge and capability or experience with PvP. Does that mean sorcs are perfect? No I am sure they would like a class stamina damage ability. But this topic is about templars. You just brought it up.

You cannot play a templar to outlast anyone, since every class in this game has better rescource management than templars. As stamina you have to kill or be killed, except we have less ways to outplay our opponent, since not a whole lot of our arsenal, and only a couple of passives, help us.
As magicka, sure you can spam heals, but that is really all the defensive capabilities magicka templars have that's explicit to the class. And even then, you end up standing in your Rune Focus, spamming Breath of Life, because if you stop, you die. A well played and build sorc or NB can even out damage it through use of healing debuff and insane burst capability. Throw in a CC during a moment of the templar not holding block or capitalizing on CC immunity and rekt.

DKs CAN outlast, as magicka and stamina, because they have an awesome arrange of tools to keep them alive. Want me to go into details on why that is aswell?

Stamina templars are far worse off than magicka templars though, doesn't mean both of them don't need help, 'cause they do.

Now, throw a magicka templar into a group and we have a completely different story. But I would still like to be able to pull my own weight. I am sure a lot of PvPers don't always have buddies waiting around to carry them around in Cyrodiil.

I realize DKs also have problems carrying their own weight atm, and I don't mean to undertone their issues. But again this is a thread about templars, and I do think DKs are still better off right now than we are.

Actually, every single class has been better off than the templar since launch day.

Go to any dueling tournament or just a normal dueling session with 1v1 fights and you will get the picture; a LOT (and I mean A TON) of NBs and Sorcs, a handful of DKS and maybe 1-2 Templars. It all speaks for itself. Most people who love PvP and who rolled Templar in the beginning quickly realized how subpar they were if they wanted to do anything outside of healing their group mates and rerolled. Up until 1.6 they played DK and some Sorc. And until now Sorcs or NB.

But feel free to get back to me if there's anything else you would like me to go into depth with. I don't mind comparing the templar to other classes, because when you boil it down to what you get from the class skill line passives, and what tools each class has at it's disposal, Templars are dead last, at every point, except if you only look at it through the eyes of a group leader who needs a healer.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

My Magic Dragon Knight uses Chains so yea I single you out or I get pulled to you both suit me. You will never convince me that you can't use Quick Cloak it's 3k last for 15 seconds 2 medium (6% stamina cost reduction and regen) and plus CP stamina cost reduction no way you can't use that power.

Who uses 2 medium armor AND uses CP points on stamina cost reduction if you play as magicka? Or do you just have a ton of excess CPs?
At max you would use 1h1M5L for the 6% undaunted bonus.
But sure you could use Quick Cloak if (and that's a big IF) you run dual wield as a magicka templar. But wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to just to have access to it? Kind of like the Sorc or NB?

So, in short Templars are the weakest class in PvP

Edit:
PvE win

• Templar
• DK

PvP win

• NB
• Sorc

Funny because if you ask half the NB on here they all say a templar specced and played properly is neigh on impossible for them to kill, and is what causes their death most often, nb's are quite literally the easier thing in IC for me to kill. And that's nb heaven.

Look it's fine, just admit you can't play a templar and move on, some people can, some cant, it's probably one of the hardest classes to master as you require a few buffs to he kept up, have a good sense of timing and be prepared to fight to the death.

But please keep saying how bad templars are, the more zos buffs us the more I can faceroll people.

BalticBlues

Zinaroth wrote: »

Go to any dueling tournament or just a normal dueling session with 1v1 fights and you will get the picture; a LOT (and I mean A TON) of NBs and Sorcs, a handful of DKS and maybe 1-2 Templars. It all speaks for itself. Most people who love PvP and who rolled Templar in the beginning quickly realized how subpar they were if they wanted to do anything outside of healing their group mates and rerolled.

This. Even the best PvE Templar in our guild does not do PvP anymore.
For most Templar players, the 1 vs 1 imparity is humiliating.

Zinaroth wrote: »

As stamina [...] we have less ways to outplay our opponent, since not a whole lot of our arsenal, and only a couple of passives, help us. As magicka, sure you can spam heals, but that is really all the defensive capabilities magicka templars have that's explicit to the class. And even then, you end up standing in your Rune Focus, spamming Breath of Life, because if you stop, you die. A well played and build sorc or NB can even out damage it through use of healing debuff and insane burst capability. Throw in a CC during a moment of the templar not holding block or capitalizing on CC immunity and rekt.

This is a good description of what usually happens in 1 vs 1.

zornyan wrote: »

just admit you can't play a templar and move on [...] I can faceroll people.

I solo most Craglorn stuff, so I wouldn't say I "can't play".
However, in 1v1 PvP I suck more with each patch.
Instead of a warrior in 1v1 I now feel more like a "healing snake".
You seem to be the extreme Templar exception. Thanks for your tipps, I will try something of it.
However, I am pretty sure you mean "Purifiying Ritual" when you say "Purifying Light"?

jhharvest

zornyan wrote: »

4 piece martial
3 piece seducers
3 willpower all spell power enchants
2 torugs precise swords

Spell power is at 3800, just need to get that kena piece and waiting for julianos set to craft.

What am I doing wrong? I put on 4 Martial, 2 Torug, 3 Willpower and a Kena piece and my spell power is 2181. Seducer doesn't give spell power so I should have more, instead of 40% less? Genuinely puzzled here.

zornyan

Yes you're correct spelling on one's phone is hard sometimes.

Pve stuff is ridiculously easy to solo imo, so it'd hard to use it as any sort of basis.

Honestly how do people think templars are so weak?

Put It this way, an nb gank you, you can get rid of all his debuffs, you have more armor than them, you probably have more health than them, and you have multiple heals/HoTS keep you alive.

All you need to do is cast puncturing sweeps, a skill which does great damage, prevents them from stealthing, and heals you even more!

Honestly everyone generally agrees that magicka templars are doing better this patch than ever befpre, and I agree, km nearly unkillable, the only issue that needs fixing is the damage to shields bug.

BalticBlues

zornyan wrote: »

All you need to do is cast puncturing sweeps

Capable Sorcs/NBs do not fall for this. They just outmaneuver the Templar snake.
This is why limited mobility and limited melee attack/defense options hurt Templars so much.
Limited mobility combined with the one and only melee option make them easily predictable.
With a little better mobility for Templars things could look different.

Alternative suggestion: A "Zone of Control" (ZOC) spell.
ZOC would mean a slow down of attacking players in front of you while you move.
This could work in a similar way as the Fear spell (flee and slow down) for NBs.

I will now test the "Volcanic Rune" spell of the Mages Guild to see if it helps my Templar snake.

pkb16_ESO2

As templar with jabs u can not win against a good sorc or magicka NB because u wont be able to break there shields.
And thats just stupid.
The damage to shield bug needs to be adressed.
But ZOS still didnt make any statement to this.

zornyan

jhharvest wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

4 piece martial
3 piece seducers
3 willpower all spell power enchants
2 torugs precise swords

Spell power is at 3800, just need to get that kena piece and waiting for julianos set to craft.

What am I doing wrong? I put on 4 Martial, 2 Torug, 3 Willpower and a Kena piece and my spell power is 2181. Seducer doesn't give spell power so I should have more, instead of 40% less? Genuinely puzzled here.

You using gold vr16 swords? That figure IS with major and minor sorcerery buffs active btw.

zornyan

BalticBlues wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

All you need to do is cast puncturing sweeps

Capable Sorcs/NBs do not fall for this. They just outmaneuver the Templar snake.
This is why limited mobility and limited melee attack/defense options hurt Templars so much.
Limited mobility combined with the one and only melee option make them easily predictable.
With a little better mobility for Templars things could look different.

Alternative suggestion: A "Zone of Control" (ZOC) spell.
ZOC would mean a slow down of attacking players in front of you while you move.
This could work in a similar way as the Fear spell (flee and slow down) for NBs.

I will now test the "Volcanic Rune" spell of the Mages Guild to see if it helps my Templar snake.

So simply use a snare on them? Or a root? Plenty of options, the only way for an nb to avoid anything is cloak, which jabs is a perfect counter for. Along side blazing spear.

Zinaroth

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

As magicka, sure you can spam heals, but that is really all the defensive capabilities magicka templars have that's explicit to the class.

What? No class is this game is completely self-sustaining just off of Class Abilities. If your asking for such a thing, than this isn't about class balance; this is about please Zenimax give us Templars a GODMODE ability in our class tree so we can have another 1 button spamfest while we vegetate cause thinking is just too hard. If it's mobility you want, Zenimax please make us the King of Running Away from every fight we encounter. This is absolutely absurd logic.

Zinaroth wrote: »

And even then, you end up standing in your Rune Focus, spamming Breath of Life, because if you stop, you die. A well played and build sorc or NB can even out damage it through use of healing debuff and insane burst capability.

Yeah because we don't have this ability called Purifying Ritual that clears debuffs while everyone else has to rely of Purge. And honestly if your character has to rely on spamming BoL just to survive when you have Puncturing Sweeps, then honestly you shouldn't be PvPing on that build. Fix your build so this isn't such a PROBLEM!!!!! Hint: Maybe those 5, 6, 7 pieces of cloth isn't such a great idea.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Throw in a CC during a moment of the templar not holding block or capitalizing on CC immunity and rekt.

This can kill any class, so not really a Templar problem. You run out of Stam and get CC'd, you die regardless of your class. I assume I am reading this correctly.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Who uses 2 medium armor AND uses CP points on stamina cost reduction if you play as magicka?

If it works, it works.

Here's my final statement: If you want Mobility, go play a class that has it. Templars don't fit your playstyle and that should be fine, you stated other people have left it: follow them. Stop asking for nonsense cause you refuse to understand what makes a class unique and beg for the ruining of what the MAJORITY of the community already likes and enjoys.

Congratulations. You just took my entire post, dismantled it, and answered each part as if the rest didn't exist. Completely out of context. No class is self-sustaining off class abilities. I never said that. But the templar has the worst survivability of all of them, outside spamming Breath of Life. The problem being that all the other classes have abilities that help them survive, that doesn't need to be spammed, to get the job done. Templar's don't. A cloak gets you out of focus in one use. A sorc shield is double a Breath of Life heal, meaning more time not spamming shield, plus they also have Bolt AND LIghtning Form. DKs are a bit worse off but still have a really nice self buff and lots of inherent tankiness in their awesome regens.

I even mentioned Purify in my comment, but you took something out of context and made it sound like I hadn't already considered it. Congratulations on manipulating what I wrote. Purify is nice, but again, you need to spam it. It cannot be used pre-emptively, so yet more to spam. Good luck hitting with Puncturing Sweep when you are running around in snail mode with the only channeled melee ability in the game. If you're lucky you will get 2/4 hits in. If you even bothered to read my entire comment you'd know I am running as stamina, so belittling me for using 7 pieces of light armor when in truth I don't even play magicka right now is just a joke on you.

Sure a well timed CC can kill any class. But this comes back to the templars defense being reactive and not pre-emptive. You can't spam BoL when CCed. Unless you get CCed inside your Rune Focus or within 5 seconds of leaving it you don't have that defense ability either. And even if you survive the CC you're demoted to spamming BoL trying to catch up in the fight again when the CC is over. Every other class has a better way of taking pressure off them. And before you mention that we can just CC them; remember you were advocating for Puncturing Sweep, this renders them CC immunity after just a 0.5 second knockback. Yet another courtesy from ZOS for being the underdog in PvP.

Sure if it works, it works. But it will reduce your capability of playing your role in any other regard.

Here's MY final statement: Don't tell me to go play another class. I played mine since launch. I have more experience on Templar than you will probably ever accumulate. I played Templar back when it was STILL the underdog in PvP. But because the meta wasn't about hitting and running so much, it was bearable, and I could carry my own. The game has changed in so many aspects and templars have been left in the gutter as a result of it (somewhat DKs aswell but this is not the topic for that discussion). I do not refuse to understand anything, because I already know EVERYTHING there is to know about my class and have 1½ year experience of playing it. Furthermore I find it absolutely ridiculous that you only quoted the parts of my comment that you could dismantle and left out every single obvious thing I said like templars hardly being present in 1v1 dueling tournaments or dueling sessions at all. Because that is irrefutable proof that Templars are dead last and every proper PvPer knows it. So only a few brave souls are maining a Templar nowadays.

Sypher, Fengrush, Lefty Lucy and King Richard. All of them considered good PvPers who stream. What do they have in common? None of them play a Templar, ever. Feel free to point me in the direction of ANY high profile streamer that mains a Templar or generally plays one. And if you say JarJarMerks, I reserve the right to laugh.

BalticBlues

"Honestly", to speak in your language Zornyan, if playing a Templar would be so "simple" that you can just "faceroll people", people probably would do this instead of laughing about Templars behind our backs. Currently, most people roll NBs and Sorcs in PvP because these classes rule the battlefield (and will kill almost every Templar in 1 vs 1). Just because you seem to have godlike playing skills compared to us humble humans, it does not mean there are no 1v1 balancing issues. If PVE solo goes very well and PVP 1v1 goes very bad for most players, then there are balancing issues. Only for most people of course, not for superior players like you.

zornyan

Zinaroth wrote: »

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

As magicka, sure you can spam heals, but that is really all the defensive capabilities magicka templars have that's explicit to the class.

What? No class is this game is completely self-sustaining just off of Class Abilities. If your asking for such a thing, than this isn't about class balance; this is about please Zenimax give us Templars a GODMODE ability in our class tree so we can have another 1 button spamfest while we vegetate cause thinking is just too hard. If it's mobility you want, Zenimax please make us the King of Running Away from every fight we encounter. This is absolutely absurd logic.

Zinaroth wrote: »

And even then, you end up standing in your Rune Focus, spamming Breath of Life, because if you stop, you die. A well played and build sorc or NB can even out damage it through use of healing debuff and insane burst capability.

Yeah because we don't have this ability called Purifying Ritual that clears debuffs while everyone else has to rely of Purge. And honestly if your character has to rely on spamming BoL just to survive when you have Puncturing Sweeps, then honestly you shouldn't be PvPing on that build. Fix your build so this isn't such a PROBLEM!!!!! Hint: Maybe those 5, 6, 7 pieces of cloth isn't such a great idea.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Throw in a CC during a moment of the templar not holding block or capitalizing on CC immunity and rekt.

This can kill any class, so not really a Templar problem. You run out of Stam and get CC'd, you die regardless of your class. I assume I am reading this correctly.

Zinaroth wrote: »

Who uses 2 medium armor AND uses CP points on stamina cost reduction if you play as magicka?

If it works, it works.

Here's my final statement: If you want Mobility, go play a class that has it. Templars don't fit your playstyle and that should be fine, you stated other people have left it: follow them. Stop asking for nonsense cause you refuse to understand what makes a class unique and beg for the ruining of what the MAJORITY of the community already likes and enjoys.

Congratulations. You just took my entire post, dismantled it, and answered each part as if the rest didn't exist. Completely out of context. No class is self-sustaining off class abilities. I never said that. But the templar has the worst survivability of all of them, outside spamming Breath of Life. The problem being that all the other classes have abilities that help them survive, that doesn't need to be spammed, to get the job done. Templar's don't. A cloak gets you out of focus in one use. A sorc shield is double a Breath of Life heal, meaning more time not spamming shield, plus they also have Bolt AND LIghtning Form. DKs are a bit worse off but still have a really nice self buff and lots of inherent tankiness in their awesome regens.

I even mentioned Purify in my comment, but you took something out of context and made it sound like I hadn't already considered it. Congratulations on manipulating what I wrote. Purify is nice, but again, you need to spam it. It cannot be used pre-emptively, so yet more to spam. Good luck hitting with Puncturing Sweep when you are running around in snail mode with the only channeled melee ability in the game. If you're lucky you will get 2/4 hits in. If you even bothered to read my entire comment you'd know I am running as stamina, so belittling me for using 7 pieces of light armor when in truth I don't even play magicka right now is just a joke on you.

Sure a well timed CC can kill any class. But this comes back to the templars defense being reactive and not pre-emptive. You can't spam BoL when CCed. Unless you get CCed inside your Rune Focus or within 5 seconds of leaving it you don't have that defense ability either. And even if you survive the CC you're demoted to spamming BoL trying to catch up in the fight again when the CC is over. Every other class has a better way of taking pressure off them. And before you mention that we can just CC them; remember you were advocating for Puncturing Sweep, this renders them CC immunity after just a 0.5 second knockback. Yet another courtesy from ZOS for being the underdog in PvP.

Sure if it works, it works. But it will reduce your capability of playing your role in any other regard.

Here's MY final statement: Don't tell me to go play another class. I played mine since launch. I have more experience on Templar than you will probably ever accumulate. I played Templar back when it was STILL the underdog in PvP. But because the meta wasn't about hitting and running so much, it was bearable, and I could carry my own. The game has changed in so many aspects and templars have been left in the gutter as a result of it (somewhat DKs aswell but this is not the topic for that discussion). I do not refuse to understand anything, because I already know EVERYTHING there is to know about my class and have 1½ year experience of playing it. Furthermore I find it absolutely ridiculous that you only quoted the parts of my comment that you could dismantle and left out every single obvious thing I said like templars hardly being present in 1v1 dueling tournaments or dueling sessions at all. Because that is irrefutable proof that Templars are dead last and every proper PvPer knows it. So only a few brave souls are maining a Templar nowadays.

Sypher, Fengrush, Lefty Lucy and King Richard. All of them considered good PvPers who stream. What do they have in common? None of them play a Templar, ever. Feel free to point me in the direction of ANY high profile streamer that mains a Templar or generally plays one. And if you say JarJarMerks, I reserve the right to laugh.

Erm both deltia and sypher use magicka templars, and stamina. So you completly owned yourself there.

In fact sypher has said several times how great the magicka templar is. Just because you played a class for a year doesn't make you good.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

zornyan

BalticBlues wrote: »

"Honestly", to speak in your language Zornyan, if playing a Templar would be so "simple" that you can just "faceroll people", people probably would do this instead of laughing about Templars behind our backs. Currently, most people roll NBs and Sorcs in PvP because these classes rule the battlefield (and will kill almost every Templar in 1 vs 1). Just because you seem to have godlike playing skills compared to us humble humans, it does not mean there are no 1v1 balancing issues. If PVE solo goes very well and PVP 1v1 goes very bad for most players, then there are balancing issues. Only for most people of course, not for superior players like you.

If you read more of my posts you'll have noticed I said templars are very difficult to master. They have more complicated rotations, classes like nb and sorcs just generally active one to two single long duration buffs, then use 1-2 skills only to attack you with. They only have to press one button to attempt an escape.

Templar rotations are more complicated and require more attention to things such as laying down rune focus and purifying light when buffs are expiring or when exiting their area of effect, along side buffs like entropy etc.

So they are harder to master than the other classes, but when used by a skilled player are hugely powerful, if you go up against someone with a decent amount of spell power/magicka that knows how to keep themselves alive, you won't kill them.

Put a templar in a group of 3? They'll annihilate a group of 6. I sometimes run with a dk that's more tanky, and a magicka night lade, the three of us once went into the arena district for some fun, we sat at the red/yellow spawn where 8 of them failed to kill us, they were literally respawning and constantly attacking yet just fell over and over. We've fought off large zergs of AD camping our sewer spawn.

Hardly the broken class some say.

Zinaroth

zornyan wrote: »

Erm both deltia and sypher use magicka templars, and stamina. So you completly owned yourself there.

In fact sypher has said several times how great the magicka templar is. Just because you played a class for a year doesn't make you good, a monkey using a keyboard for a year is still just a monkey.

Deltia is not a PvPer. KingRichard says he used to play a Templar in PvP back when the cap was VR10. Hardly qualifies him to comment on the current state of the class. Sypher is currently leveling a templar. Has been leveling it for over two months. He NEVER played a templar, EVER, on stream.

Why are you lying? To further your point? Pitiful...

I know they are all saying how good magicka templars are. Funny how they all talk about how good a class is they have no experience with and that none of them play. It's like 4 guys sitting around agreeing that ESO sucks, but none of them have tried it. It's ridiculous and unqualified.

Nice, comparing me to a monkey. Ran out of arguments?

If you have to lie and result to personal insults just because you don't agree with me then you're better off not coming on these forums.

Feel free to come back when you want to be constructive.

zornyan

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Erm both deltia and sypher use magicka templars, and stamina. So you completly owned yourself there.

In fact sypher has said several times how great the magicka templar is. Just because you played a class for a year doesn't make you good, a monkey using a keyboard for a year is still just a monkey.

Deltia is not a PvPer. KingRichard says he used to play a Templar in PvP back when the cap was VR10. Hardly qualifies him to comment on the current state of the class. Sypher is currently leveling a templar. Has been leveling it for over two months. He NEVER played a templar, EVER, on stream.

Why are you lying? To further your point? Pitiful...

I know they are all saying how good magicka templars are. Funny how they all talk about how good a class is they have no experience with and that none of them play. It's like 4 guys sitting around agreeing that ESO sucks, but none of them have tried it. It's ridiculous and unqualified.

Nice, comparing me to a monkey. Ran out of arguments?

If you have to lie and result to personal insults just because you don't agree with me then you're better off not coming on these forums.

Feel free to come back when you want to be constructive.

Go on syphers website and look at the video of him 1vx as his magicka templar and tell me he never played one...

Zinaroth

zornyan wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Erm both deltia and sypher use magicka templars, and stamina. So you completly owned yourself there.

In fact sypher has said several times how great the magicka templar is. Just because you played a class for a year doesn't make you good, a monkey using a keyboard for a year is still just a monkey.

Deltia is not a PvPer. KingRichard says he used to play a Templar in PvP back when the cap was VR10. Hardly qualifies him to comment on the current state of the class. Sypher is currently leveling a templar. Has been leveling it for over two months. He NEVER played a templar, EVER, on stream.

Why are you lying? To further your point? Pitiful...

I know they are all saying how good magicka templars are. Funny how they all talk about how good a class is they have no experience with and that none of them play. It's like 4 guys sitting around agreeing that ESO sucks, but none of them have tried it. It's ridiculous and unqualified.

Nice, comparing me to a monkey. Ran out of arguments?

If you have to lie and result to personal insults just because you don't agree with me then you're better off not coming on these forums.

Feel free to come back when you want to be constructive.

Go on syphers website and look at the video of him 1vx as his magicka templar and tell me he never played one...

I see it. Guess he finished leveling it finally. I never see him playing it on stream ever.

EDIT:
Is this the video?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=_GUVqNfmq4E
He is literally only fighting VR15 people here and they are aweful. This is not an indication of the potential of a magicka templar.

zornyan

http://www.sypherpk.com/templar-magicka-pvp-build/

He's also done several streams with his templar, this isn't even a finished build amd he is facerolling.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

Fix cc and templars both mag and stam willl have more mobility. It kills me to watch Krogmak fall, attempting to heal his allies, but he can't because he's cc locked with a full or half bar of battle level stam and can't break fare

Zinaroth

zornyan wrote: »

http://www.sypherpk.com/templar-magicka-pvp-build/

He's also done several streams with his templar, this isn't even a finished build amd he is facerolling.

That is a build he made on a template character on the PTS server. Look at the date it was uploaded. He even says it on the video. Furthermore the video I linked is also from the PTS.

He says he will update it on his actual Imperial Templar on the live server once he gets that up. It never happened. He doesn't have a max level templar on live. He played one a bit on PTS. Why? To cover all classes because he lives off the game. Doesn't make him knowledgeable about the class in particular or it's balance.

Nice try though, I almost fell for it.

zornyan

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

http://www.sypherpk.com/templar-magicka-pvp-build/

He's also done several streams with his templar, this isn't even a finished build amd he is facerolling.

That is a build he made on a template character on the PTS server. Look at the date it was uploaded. He even says it on the video. Furthermore the video I linked is also from the PTS.

He says he will update it on his actual Imperial Templar on the live server once he gets that up. It never happened. He doesn't have a max level templar on live. He played one a bit on PTS. Why? To cover all classes because he lives off the game. Doesn't make him knowledgeable about the class in particular or it's balance.

Nice try though, I almost fell for it.

So my post proves that a skilled player, completly new to the templar class has been able to faceroll with a very basic build?

Imagine how well he will be doing with 4k spell power, 40k magicka and twice his dps/heals...

ZOS_RiedL

Hello,

We have moved this thread to the correct category.

Thanks for your understanding.

Zinaroth

zornyan wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

http://www.sypherpk.com/templar-magicka-pvp-build/

He's also done several streams with his templar, this isn't even a finished build amd he is facerolling.

That is a build he made on a template character on the PTS server. Look at the date it was uploaded. He even says it on the video. Furthermore the video I linked is also from the PTS.

He says he will update it on his actual Imperial Templar on the live server once he gets that up. It never happened. He doesn't have a max level templar on live. He played one a bit on PTS. Why? To cover all classes because he lives off the game. Doesn't make him knowledgeable about the class in particular or it's balance.

Nice try though, I almost fell for it.

So my post proves that a skilled player, completly new to the templar class has been able to faceroll with a very basic build?

Imagine how well he will be doing with 4k spell power, 40k magicka and twice his dps/heals...

You lied, several times, to further your point.
He was VR16 and killed a couple of VR15 guys who stood still in his Jabs when he wasn't spamming Breath of Life, Healing Ward and Purifying Ritual. That video is not a display what Magicka Templars are capable of. It's a video of what you can pull off if people are playing without using their brain. For all we know those guys were people returning to the game from back when VR14 cap was introduced and was getting into the drill again. Your entire point for this whole thread, that magicka templars are perfectly fine, rests on a video from PTS with a guy who never played a Templar before kills a couple of VR15s.

ZOS_RiedL wrote: »

Hello,

We have moved this thread to the correct category.

Thanks for your understanding.

Thanks for showing interest in this 7 page long thread about the problems with the Templar class.

zornyan

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

http://www.sypherpk.com/templar-magicka-pvp-build/

He's also done several streams with his templar, this isn't even a finished build amd he is facerolling.

That is a build he made on a template character on the PTS server. Look at the date it was uploaded. He even says it on the video. Furthermore the video I linked is also from the PTS.

He says he will update it on his actual Imperial Templar on the live server once he gets that up. It never happened. He doesn't have a max level templar on live. He played one a bit on PTS. Why? To cover all classes because he lives off the game. Doesn't make him knowledgeable about the class in particular or it's balance.

Nice try though, I almost fell for it.

So my post proves that a skilled player, completly new to the templar class has been able to faceroll with a very basic build?

Imagine how well he will be doing with 4k spell power, 40k magicka and twice his dps/heals...

You lied, several times, to further your point.
He was VR16 and killed a couple of VR15 guys who stood still in his Jabs when he wasn't spamming Breath of Life, Healing Ward and Purifying Ritual. That video is not a display what Magicka Templars are capable of. It's a video of what you can pull off if people are playing without using their brain. For all we know those guys were people returning to the game from back when VR14 cap was introduced and was getting into the drill again. Your entire point for this whole thread, that magicka templars are perfectly fine, rests on a video from PTS with a guy who never played a Templar before kills a couple of VR15s.

ZOS_RiedL wrote: »

Hello,

We have moved this thread to the correct category.

Thanks for your understanding.

Thanks for showing interest in this 7 page long thread about the problems with the Templar class.

You mean, the templar using sub optimal gear that we are getting more powerful versions of, and personally waiting 2 slots on engine guardian which imo is a pretty poor 2 piece set, adding to that he used sword and board instead of dual wield.

It simply shows that a good player can take a sub optimal build and wreck face with a templar, like I said, take a step back from the computer, admit you just aren't that good. And move on

Zinaroth

zornyan wrote: »

You mean, the templar using sub optimal gear that we are getting more powerful versions of, and personally waiting 2 slots on engine guardian which imo is a pretty poor 2 piece set, adding to that he used sword and board instead of dual wield.

It simply shows that a good player can take a sub optimal build and wreck face with a templar, like I said, take a step back from the computer, admit you just aren't that good. And move on

The Engine Guardian literally saved him in the video I linked which is the only video he has posted of Templar PvP lately, which again is on PTS on a template.

Sure he could upgrade his gear but the people he is dueling against aren't exactly well geared either, not even VR16, so that is not an argument.

How about you just sod off from this thread? You've purposely lied on several occasions.
I've completely tore apart every argument you came with and reveiled the lies you weaved.

You probably never played a Templar yourself and you're just advocating for the devil. I am wondering what your true agenda is here. You probably play a NB or Sorc and just want to stay on top.

I've PvPed for 1½ year. I play in one of the best raiding guilds in the game.
My knowledge on the Templar is unmatched by you.
Excuse me, but who are you?

The picture has been painted, I think people see you for what you are now.

This will be the last answer I give you on this thread.

zornyan

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

You mean, the templar using sub optimal gear that we are getting more powerful versions of, and personally waiting 2 slots on engine guardian which imo is a pretty poor 2 piece set, adding to that he used sword and board instead of dual wield.

It simply shows that a good player can take a sub optimal build and wreck face with a templar, like I said, take a step back from the computer, admit you just aren't that good. And move on

The Engine Guardian literally saved him in the video I linked which is the only video he has posted of Templar PvP lately, which again is on PTS on a template.

Sure he could upgrade his gear but the people he is dueling against aren't exactly well geared either, not even VR16, so that is not an argument.

How about you just sod off from this thread? You've purposely lied on several occasions.
I've completely tore apart every argument you came with and reveiled the lies you weaved.

You probably never played a Templar yourself and you're just advocating for the devil. I am wondering what your true agenda is here. You probably play a NB or Sorc and just want to stay on top.

I've PvPed for 1½ year. I play in one of the best raiding guilds in the game.
My knowledge on the Templar is unmatched by you.
Excuse me, but who are you?

The picture has been painted, I think people see you for what you are now.

This will be the last answer I give you on this thread.

I actually have 3 templars, an imperial magicka, a breton magicka and an imperial stamina, how about you stop crying in this thread purely because you lack the skill to pvp?