Please do something against infinite roll dodge and Stamina builds :(

WebBull

And now perma dodge rolls will be invincible.....

@Soulac: Are Concealed Weapon (NB) and Whip (DK) supposed to completely ignore Dodge?
No, they are not. Thanks for the report! We’ll make sure this is fixed in our next content update.

Athas24

I was told there would be rubber chickens at this gathering? *looks for them*

nastuug

Athas24 wrote: »

I was told there would be rubber chickens at this gathering? *looks for them*

trimsic_ESO

A player with a stamina build has a decision to take:
- Deal a lot of damage for a short period of time
- Deal moderate damage for a longer period of time and be able to dodge or block

No one can have the best of both worlds. If you can see someone dodge rolling a lot, he is either exhausting his stamina pool in a hope to hit you badly while he still can do it, or he's ok with his stamina pool but he won't hurt you that hard.

Yes I can understand that running after someone who dodge-rolls to escape a combat can be frustrating, but it's not more frustrating than running after someone who chain teleports for the same reason. Yes it's frustrating to play against someone who perma blocks, but it's not more frustrating than fighting someone who stacks damage shields.

I would dare to say that magicka builds provide more sustain than stamina builds actually. Try both builds, and you'll make your own conclusion on that particular point.

Varicite

As a complete aside, I found this quote from an article written about 3 months post-launch:

Random groups actively turn away damage-focused Nightblade characters, as the class' DPS is in such a pitiful state right now (particularly for stamina builds) that bringing them would likely result in a lower ranking or outright failure.

'Tis the reason for the season.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

As a complete aside, I found this quote from an article written about 3 months post-launch:

Random groups actively turn away damage-focused Nightblade characters, as the class' DPS is in such a pitiful state right now (particularly for stamina builds) that bringing them would likely result in a lower ranking or outright failure.

'Tis the reason for the season.

Yup, this one remembers that time period.. now everyone cries about how powerful Stamina Nightblades are...

Lava_Croft

Dracane wrote: »

I know, this is a common topic and I don't want to qq. But I can no longer be silent about this.
Roll dodging is the worst thing, this game has ever seen.

How am I supposed to beat Nightblades ? They roll dodge forever, break free forever and can block forever. And IF I manage to hit (which only happens with a heavy lightning attack) it does nothing, because Nirnhoned eats the low damage.
I'm very desperate. Maybe this is not only a roll dodge and Nightblade problem, but a problem with stamina builds in general.

Stamina builds can invest everything into damage, and still have the highest sustain, because blocking and dodging is all you need in this game. I feel like blocking absorbs over 90% of the damage and stamina users don't even have to manage ressources, because it somehow never depleads.
While Magicka builds on the other hand, must go full sustain, because otherwise we're out after a few seconds and full damage doesn't help, because it never hits or is absorbed by the turtle block And still, shield stacking is nowhere as powerfull and cheap as a roll dodge or block.

So, what am I supposed to say ? It's horrible. Roll dodge should be a 'Oh crap' button and should be something very VERY situational, that you use as a skilled step to avoid damage. But NOT hit it 24/7 to enter god mode. No.... no this is not how it's supposed to be. So roll dodge must be far far far more expensive or needs a reasonable cooldown. And in my opinion, nobody should be able to block forever either. Even blocks should be something situationnal to block damage. Which could be easily achieved by a stamina cost over time (because come one, block costs nothing at the moment)

I'm sorry for the long text and hope, nobody feels insulted by this, I don't mean to qq or scream for nerfs. But this is a serious problem in my opinion and many people I know agree.

Endless Ball of Lightning spammer complains about endless dodge roll spammer.

/thread

Dracane

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

OdinForge

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Bfish22090

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Nirnhoned > sorc

Currently I have 40k spell resistance in medium as a DK

Maybe you should try that Odin forge, you would be shocked by the results

OdinForge

Bfish22090 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Nirnhoned > sorc

Currently I have 40k spell resistance in medium as a DK

Maybe you should try that Odin forge, you would be shocked by the results

That's what I'm getting at, I finally made a nirn version of my build for comparison purposes. It's absurd how much damage you're able to mitigate. Take away that resistance, and many of these annoying stamina builds get boiled.

nastuug

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

^^^^

gard

Bfish22090 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Nirnhoned > sorc

Currently I have 40k spell resistance in medium as a DK

Maybe you should try that Odin forge, you would be shocked by the results

Why repeat what OdinForge just said?

Madness1

Ok there is no use in just complaining about it, a solution needs to be put forward and we as a community can put one in the spotlight.

What if they give a second or two cooldown that's related to skills and/or the dodge roll itself? That way none of the actual Dodge Roll effects are being tampered with and unless they want to instantly go into cloak they're going to be hit. Since when has Dodge Rolling ever been a thing in proper action, or even in The Elder Scrolls in general?

I was a Dodge Roller and it is OP, I'd admit that, and that's precisely why I did it; this has gone on for far too long and needs to be nefed in some way, or at the least given a proper counter by a class, and that goes for every defensive skill including shields (Rock, Paper, Scissors).

Bfish22090

gard wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Nirnhoned > sorc

Currently I have 40k spell resistance in medium as a DK

Maybe you should try that Odin forge, you would be shocked by the results

Why repeat what OdinForge just said?

For emphasis that its important.


Why so serious?

gard

Bfish22090 wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Nirnhoned > sorc

Currently I have 40k spell resistance in medium as a DK

Maybe you should try that Odin forge, you would be shocked by the results

Why repeat what OdinForge just said?

For emphasis that its important.


Why so serious?

Not really serious..
I just don't get why you would say that nirnhorned owns sorc and suggest to get nirnhorned gear, when in OdinForge's previous posts he says he's got one build with nirnhorned and one without? He wouldn't be shocked by the results at all. He knows exactly what the results are. *shrug*

Bfish22090

gard wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Nirnhoned > sorc

Currently I have 40k spell resistance in medium as a DK

Maybe you should try that Odin forge, you would be shocked by the results

Why repeat what OdinForge just said?

For emphasis that its important.


Why so serious?

Not really serious..
I just don't get why you would say that nirnhorned owns sorc and suggest to get nirnhorned gear, when in OdinForge's previous posts he says he's got one build with nirnhorned and one without? He wouldn't be shocked by the results at all. He knows exactly what the results are. *shrug*

He specifically said that the non-nirnhoned build gets ripped apart by sorcs

#facepalm

gard

Bfish22090 wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

If they are dodging, blocking, sprinting or breaking free they are burning resources and not hitting you.

If they are needing to use break free then clearly you ARE hitting them.

If they are that heavily teched towards stamina regen then they are weak in other areas find the, exploit them, kill them.

For example have you heard of AOE and being mobile in combat yourself?

I would suggest you learn to habdle it in the same way we have to deal with stacked shields, bolting sorcs, perma-talons, jesus beams, wrecking blow spamming or any other tactic that is effective but sometimes annoying in the current meta.

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get. The fact they have that regen along with high burst, sustained damage, fear ( insane cc

---

stamina drain ) they nearly always get out on top.

And you act as if you're the only class that has to do deal with stacked shields or the jesus beam. You have a build in cleanse in dark cloak.. jesus beam wut? Surely it isnt the most effective but at least its somethign u have over the other classes. WB spam? just dodgeroll.

oh i forgot perma talons.. Does anyone even do that nowadays? Oh and you know what counters talons? dodgeroll LOL

Seriously, NB's on the forums that act as if they're weak or anything ilke that.. must be the worst players on the planet. Instant no respect if you're act whiny about that class.

Yes Sorc is the most powerful and easy to play, but Nb isnt far off it. Theres a huge gap between DK/temp compared to Sorc/NB.

I will never understand, how someone can call Sorcerers strong or even OP.
They are so damn easy to kill, the easiest class to kill in my opinion. Damage shields are gone after 1 hit, since they've nerfed them so heavy in pvp and CC is the answer my friends.... Sorcerers have a laughable stamina pool. Remember to CC them every 5 seconds and the fight is over after 20-25 seconds or so.

If a caster complains about Sorcerers, I can understand it. Because Ball of LIghtning even annoys us Sorcerers. We wish, this wouldn't be in the game. But it's too essential to not have it against other Sorcerers. But Melee fighters should have an easy fight against Sorcs. I can only say it over and over again: CC CC CC. Immunity ends after 5 seconds, then CC again and the fight is over in no time. I myself think, that Sorc is the weakest class actually. But who cares anyway

All of our damage is easily blockable, even daedric curse is O.o yes, let me plant the seed of Oblivion into your belly and it explodes, but you block it anyway.

You'll never understand, because nirn has left a blanket of confusion over you. You fight informed stamina builds and you hit like a wet noodle, while getting hit like a truck. Try running a stamina build without using any nirn. I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds. Same skills, same set bonus. One makes me understand why everyone hates stamina builds atm (for mostly the wrong reasons), the other one makes me wonder how anyone can defend Sorc.

Also only a potato Sorc worries about his stamina pool, any well informed Sorc knows how to protect it. Among the many confusing balance issues in this game, there is also a steep learning curve for every class and build style.

Nirnhoned > sorc

Currently I have 40k spell resistance in medium as a DK

Maybe you should try that Odin forge, you would be shocked by the results

Why repeat what OdinForge just said?

For emphasis that its important.


Why so serious?

Not really serious..
I just don't get why you would say that nirnhorned owns sorc and suggest to get nirnhorned gear, when in OdinForge's previous posts he says he's got one build with nirnhorned and one without? He wouldn't be shocked by the results at all. He knows exactly what the results are. *shrug*

He specifically said that the non-nirnhoned build gets ripped apart by sorcs

#facepalm

He said:
"I have two gear versions of the same build now for comparison purposes. One dominates all including Sorc, and one gets ripped apart by half decent magicka builds."

Something tells me you #facepalm a lot. LOL

Bfish22090

Look son I know exactly what Odin forge was talking about.

Maybe he can clear this up for us

Especially since he agreed my comment.

Lorkhan

i never used a piece of nirnhoned so i have a hard time when fightin a sorc

gard

I found something to help keep your face from getting sore from all the #facepalms:




No need to thank me; I'm a giver

Lorkhan

i cant get why zenimax is taking so long to fix nirnhoned.
they said it's because console release, but this makes no sense

Bfish22090

http://i.imgur.com/jku6Ufm.jpg

Casdha

My question is did the person roll dodging kill you? If they didn't kill you and they got away then I say it was a fair build.

Balance - if folks can make builds to kill players in 5 seconds or less then it is only fair that folks can make builds to get away.

A problem would be if they dodged everything you through at them and then killed you in lets say 20 seconds or less.

If it takes them longer than that, it just means good game play as they made you exhaust your resources and then went in for the kill.

(times may be a bit off but you get the idea)

Edit: and if they went in for the kill then their resources are spent and they are now vulnerable

OdinForge

Casdha wrote: »

My question is did the person roll dodging kill you? If they didn't kill you and they got away then I say it was a fair build.

Balance - if folks can make builds to kill players in 5 seconds or less then it is only fair that folks can make builds to get away.

A problem would be if they dodged everything you though at them and then killed you in lets say 20 seconds or less.

If it takes them longer than that, it just means good game play as they made you exhaust your resources and then went in for the kill.

(times may be a bit off but you get the idea)

Edit: and if they went in for the kill then their resources are spent and they are now vulnerable

This person is getting onto something everyone seems to be missing. My nirnhoned build allows me to drop other defenses, and go all out on magicka builds and it makes no sense. On my non nirnhoned setup i have to make a clear choice between escape and attack. If i try to attack while taking damage it will result in my death, even if i could do enough damage to get through shields and HP it doesn't matter. Sorc damage is so near constant, that running full damage no defense is suicide, unless you're rocking nirn of course.

Without nirnhoned I have found other ways to go toe to toe with decent sorcs, other ways that make every bit of sense. Other ways that require me to sacrifice something else (such as mobility and damage) and it also means that there are other builds i have a disadvantage against.

@Lorkhan I'm not sure why they're taking forever, this disparity in resistance is causing huge issues. While i do believe physical damage is slightly higher than magical, it's much easier for a Sorc to get that damage down while keeping himself alive. At the current state of the game, this isn't currently apparent to many people because of that crazy resistance. I don't even believe this trait should be in the game at any capacity after this mess, but that's just MHO. When they nerf or remove nirn, a lot of the FoTM stamina builds are going to start changing. Roll dodge will suddenly not be as problematic as people think.

@Bfish22090 i liked for the emphasis and resistance numbers, @gard i get your perspective lol. Kiss and sthu.

Joy_Division

Varicite wrote: »

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Dodge isn't the problem tho its the insane regen Nightblade's get.

DK has access to 20% stam regen on top of a 33% burst heal when low on health, as well as 5% stam restoration when casting ANY Earthen Heart ability (1 of which is a damage shield that also boosts their healing and you'd be a fool not to be using regularly).

Templar has access to 10% health, stam, AND magicka regen passively or activate near corpses for burst stam / health restore. You'd be silly not to be slotting this ability as a Stamplar. They also have a passive 4% stam / magicka / ult cost reduction (and a passive 6% weapon damage increase, but this is about regen).

NB has 30% passive stam regen and a really crappy ability that you can slot for 10% more stam regen if you don't mind wasting a skillbar slot on something that won't be useful except for the buff (I don't slot this, but some people do).

NB regen isn't really all that "insane" when compared to DK and Templar, it's about 10% more normally, but DK / Temp versions come w/ extremely useful secondary effects that NBs do not have access to. I'd call it a wash.

NB regen management is easier, however, because it is passive. I will certainly concede that point.

• DK 20% stam bonus does not stack with tri-pots. NB does.
• Templar repentance is a skill that they have to actually slot to get that regen. The NB just have to use their favorite spam skill fear, amongst other possibilities.
• Why is the NB ability "really crappy" but the templar silly for not slotting something that scales off magicka and requires corpses to use?
• How is fear spamming NB, who uses a tri-pot, only 10% more the the GDB spamming DK, who also uses a tri-pot?
• If I am not mistaken and correct me if I am wrong, the Templar repentance skill only works while it is actually on their bar. So if they want it on their main bar, that means they are in essence playing with only 4 skills in a game where they want 6. Also health regen is worthless, magicka regen is easily acquired via other means. Slotting this is not quite the no brainer you make it out to be.

Zhoyzu

There are two types of builds today.

Max dmg or max regen.

A roll dodging stam user will have a considerably harder time killing you as they've sacrificed enough that they'll feel it. They may have higher sustain but you wont be wrecked by them.

lathbury

I think the issue here is all the stamina nbs l2p while that build was in the poor house now its viable they are better for it. dks and sorcs who started out op now have to l2p. tip aoe is your friend also if he's dodge rolling that much he cant have a lot of weapon damage so will struggle to make a dent if you have shields or decent armour.

I play a different nb build and I fight these perma rollers the same way I used to fight dk block casters. I use aoe and my shades throw in a few choice cc's and they will run out of stam then they are screwed as not only do they have no defence but also no offence.

Varicite

Joy_Division wrote: »

• DK 20% stam bonus does not stack with tri-pots. NB does.
• Templar repentance is a skill that they have to actually slot to get that regen. The NB just have to use their favorite spam skill fear, amongst other possibilities.
• Why is the NB ability "really crappy" but the templar silly for not slotting something that scales off magicka and requires corpses to use?
• How is fear spamming NB, who uses a tri-pot, only 10% more the the GDB spamming DK, who also uses a tri-pot?
• If I am not mistaken and correct me if I am wrong, the Templar repentance skill only works while it is actually on their bar. So if they want it on their main bar, that means they are in essence playing with only 4 skills in a game where they want 6. Also health regen is worthless, magicka regen is easily acquired via other means. Slotting this is not quite the no brainer you make it out to be.

It's true that the Major Endurance buffs won't stack, which is generally why I don't bother w/ GDB personally (I tend to rely more on Mountain's Blessing w/ Igneous Shield + Fossilize, Battle Roar, and pots for my stam management), but if we are comparing what the base classes get for stam regen, you can't exactly count GDB out of the equation. The downfall of DK stam management is that it relies on magicka usage, which you simply don't have a ton of as a stam build.

Repentance is a skill that provides good resources while slotted and great resources when activated. I'd definitely slot it on at least 1 bar, personally, as they don't really have stam regen coming from elsewhere as a class. Who cares if it scales if it scales w/ magicka when it costs nothing to use?

NB ability costs magicka to use for the 10% stam regen, and it's activation effect requires 7 light / heavy attacks before it can proc a meh damage magicka projectile. It's not really very good for a stam build, when you need to conserve your magicka for Fears / Cloaks. Templar ability only needs to be slotted on your bar to work, and its activation is free. That's why it's a stronger ability. What "other means" are you talking about to get magicka regen as a stam build stacking weapon damage / stam regen? Tri-pots?

I thought I was pretty clear when I said that NB does definitely have the easiest time managing stamina due to Refreshing Shadows being a passive effect, but to say that the other classes (excluding poor Sorcs, which I've soapboxed for pretty passionately) don't bring anything to the table is just silly.

There's a reason that NB got Refreshing Shadows, and it has everything to do w/ it being the only class that doesn't come w/ a class-based shield, large in-combat heals, or true defenses that aren't completely neutered by a potion.

Once TTK is adjusted accordingly and people don't fall over in 3 seconds, the meta will adjust back to these defensive skills actually meaning something once again, and NBs will once more be checked by stronger relative defenses.

Sharee

Lyzaaa wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Roll dodger here. Radiant Destruction and Soul Assault can do serious damager to a roll dodger, but we can also instantly stop that damage by throwing up a cloak. It stops the damage instantly, and we can activate the cloak mid-dodge.

Roll dodge works like sprint: while you are doing it, all your abilities are disabled. You can not even drink a potion until the roll completes. So no, nightblades can not activate a cloak(or anything else for that matter) mid-dodge.

What he means is basicly using it before u dodgeroll in a certain sync, it basicly plays your animation while u dodgeroll much as other instant skills. No you cant use skills while dodgerolling but u can use it just before you start rolling so the animation it'd normally would do is now actually a dodgeroll.

That also does not work. If you use a dodge roll while under effect of cloak, you get instantly uncloaked.

https://youtu.be/H3VdEbuc5CU