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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
@ ZOS - Question on Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon
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Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭These abilities should NOT go through dodge roll. Its way to easy for a DK to jist spam 7k lava whips on a player using his only defense abilities. Especially if that player is CC immune.
7k.... /roll eyes
maybe if they're crits against a vampire while stacking damage really high......maybe
your view of the game is questionable.
2 -
Opux✭✭✭This really needs to be fixed. I'm seeing more and more magicka NBs and DKs that just spam gap closers, hold block, and spam these two abilities.
People are catching on that this completely *** on every stamina build out there, but especially NBs as they have no burst healing to counter it. There are already effective counters to dodge rolling in place in the form of AoE, dots, and channeled abilities - hell even just actually timing attacks instead of mindlessly spamming is enough to go through dodge rolling.
The only way to actually dodge roll forever is almost 3k+ stam regen, and to get that you need to give up a lot of damage and raw stats. It's no different from tanks with block cost reductions, or sorcerers with huge shields.1 -
vortexman11✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It also reflects burning talons and soul tether, both AoEsGuild of Shadows ~Elite~Învictus ~Council~
EP | Vortexman | Dunmer DragonKnight | LvL 50 | Rank 50 | Former Emperor of Haderus & Chillrend |
EP | Phobos | Altmer Nightblade | LvL 50 | Rank 26 |
EP | Cheezus Sliced | Argonian Templar | LvL 50 | Rank 30 |
EP | Eterno Tempesta | Altmer Sorcerer | LvL 50 | Rank 33 |
DC | Vortexman | Dunmer DragonKnight | LvL 50 | Rank 12 |
DC | Divine Storm | Altmer Sorcerer | LvL 50 | Rank 04 |
EP | Pocket Vortex | Bosmer Templar | LvL 50 | Rank 24 |
EP | Vortexman | Redguard DragonKnight | LvL 50 | Rank 28 |
EP | Fungal Growth | Argonian Warden | LvL 50 | Rank 26 |
EP | Eternal Guardian | Bosmer Warden | LvL 50 | Rank 13 |
and a few other random toons
Teaching by example > https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5479085#Comment_54790850 -
squshy7✭✭✭These abilities should NOT go through dodge roll. Its way to easy for a DK to jist spam 7k lava whips on a player using his only defense abilities. Especially if that player is CC immune.
7k.... /roll eyes
maybe if they're crits against a vampire while stacking damage really high......maybe
your view of the game is questionable.
don't roll your eyes, 7k hits are normal for my death recap. yes, vampire. no, not light armor.In order of conception:
Castnia Ashwind VR14 Nightblade; original Day 1 Vampire, bloodfiends, not bought. You're probably in my family tree.
Jul'eh Kaleh VR14 Templar
Lysnta Ashwind VR14 Sorcerer
Awaken1 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭
High Regen + High Max Magicka = Perma Cloak build = Khajiit passive 10% damage while sneaking.
Max magicka/crit from inner light
and of course the current damage in the photo is NOT counting the degen spell power boost + im not using Relentless Focus for 8%.Edited by Araxleon on 6 May 2015 15:541 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
I can only mitigate 11K DPS with shields. There is this thing called a GCD. I can only cast my shields once a second for 11K. Exceed 11KDPS and you hit my health pool. Continue to exceed 11K DPS and I die if I "Spam Shields". This is what all these bads really can't understand who complain about damage shields...they scale far worse than dodge roll as the amount of damage increases. Put 3 people on me and if I'm not dodge rolling myself I'm dead, every time unless those 3 people are just terrible players. Put 3 people on a dodge roller with vigor and I guarantee you that player will outlast the person standing there spamming shields.
Unless there..ya know..Templars/Magicka NBs/DK's who FlameLash and sorcs who do Curse+ID...Then they're dead.
That's funny because I had me and 2 other Sorcs on a DK who was dodge rolling to a keep. 45 seconds to a minute of perma-dodging and GDB and he didn't die. We were all spamming Curse and Mana Detonation with Entropy the entire time.
Put any 3 classes on me with me standing there spamming shields and I guarantee I don't last 45 seconds yet alone a minute. In other words, you're full of it.Unless there..ya know..Templars/Magicka NBs/DK's who FlameLash and sorcs who do Curse+ID...Then they're dead.
He's also comparing stam builds dodge rolling + Vigor to a Sorc standing there doing nothing else at all but spamming shields.
Because we all know that's how Sorcs fight, people get on top of them, and they stop doing anything else except hit their shield button. They certainly don't attempt to kite or anything.
In what world is using 2 defensive abilities the same as using 1 defensive ability?
Not sure why people keep trying to make this silly comparison. The argument is so transparent it's laughable.
The only thing that is transparent is your lack of reading comprehension.
The point I was making was that Shields share the spell GCD. If I'm bolt escaping I'm not casting shields and vice versus. Dodge rolling is on a separate global cooldown from your abilities however and can easily be used in conjunction with Vigor (or healing ward or GCD or other healing ability) without any sort of penalty. That is by design and it's fine like that.
I'm not complaining about dodge rollers at all, I never have. I just love when bads assume because I play a sorc and I make a comment on dodge rolling I'm suddenly complaining about it. I've only said that making dodge rolling immune to more abilities than it currently is would make it OP.
That's when all this garbage started comparing comparing dodge roll to shields again like they were anything similar....
Edited by Ezareth on 6 May 2015 21:05Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
TheBucket✭✭✭✭@Araxleon
Stop giving away everything. LOL. I'm actually running something similar, but I had a question for you. You do a lot more testing than I do.
Does the Ruffian passive in DW work with any ability or just DW abilities? I know what the tool tip says, but their are other cases where the tool tip is mistaken in ESOWilliam Reignes
Magic Nightblade - Rogue Bomber
Creator of Thirsty Thief Build (Retired 1.5)0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭just duel wield skills
now the duel wield expert passive... thats a diffrent story. Edited by Araxleon on 6 May 2015 21:310 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
I can only mitigate 11K DPS with shields. There is this thing called a GCD. I can only cast my shields once a second for 11K. Exceed 11KDPS and you hit my health pool. Continue to exceed 11K DPS and I die if I "Spam Shields". This is what all these bads really can't understand who complain about damage shields...they scale far worse than dodge roll as the amount of damage increases. Put 3 people on me and if I'm not dodge rolling myself I'm dead, every time unless those 3 people are just terrible players. Put 3 people on a dodge roller with vigor and I guarantee you that player will outlast the person standing there spamming shields.
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
I can only mitigate 11K DPS with shields. There is this thing called a GCD. I can only cast my shields once a second for 11K. Exceed 11KDPS and you hit my health pool. Continue to exceed 11K DPS and I die if I "Spam Shields". This is what all these bads really can't understand who complain about damage shields...they scale far worse than dodge roll as the amount of damage increases. Put 3 people on me and if I'm not dodge rolling myself I'm dead, every time unless those 3 people are just terrible players. Put 3 people on a dodge roller with vigor and I guarantee you that player will outlast the person standing there spamming shields.
Unless there..ya know..Templars/Magicka NBs/DK's who FlameLash and sorcs who do Curse+ID...Then they're dead.
That's funny because I had me and 2 other Sorcs on a DK who was dodge rolling to a keep. 45 seconds to a minute of perma-dodging and GDB and he didn't die. We were all spamming Curse and Mana Detonation with Entropy the entire time.
Put any 3 classes on me with me standing there spamming shields and I guarantee I don't last 45 seconds yet alone a minute. In other words, you're full of it.Unless there..ya know..Templars/Magicka NBs/DK's who FlameLash and sorcs who do Curse+ID...Then they're dead.
He's also comparing stam builds dodge rolling + Vigor to a Sorc standing there doing nothing else at all but spamming shields.
Because we all know that's how Sorcs fight, people get on top of them, and they stop doing anything else except hit their shield button. They certainly don't attempt to kite or anything.
In what world is using 2 defensive abilities the same as using 1 defensive ability?
Not sure why people keep trying to make this silly comparison. The argument is so transparent it's laughable.
The only thing that is transparent is your lack of reading comprehension.
The point I was making was that Shields share the spell GCD. If I'm bolt escaping I'm not casting shields and vice versus. Dodge rolling is on a separate global cooldown from your abilities however and can easily be used in conjunction with Vigor (or healing ward or GCD or other healing ability) without any sort of penalty. That is by design and it's fine like that.
I'm not complaining about dodge rollers at all, I never have. I just love when bads assume because I play a sorc and I make a comment on dodge rolling I'm suddenly complaining about it. I've only said that making dodge rolling immune to more abilities than it currently is would make it OP.
That's when all this garbage started comparing comparing dodge roll to shields again like they were anything similar....
I didn't say anything about you playing a Sorc. You're the one channeling that nonsense. Guess what, I ALSO play a Sorc.
Oh Em Gee.
The point that I was making is that a Sorc never just stands there and spams shields, ever, unless they are completely terrible at this game. The point is that your analogy was ridiculous in the first place and shouldn't even exist, because regardless of whether a Sorc has to contend w/ the GCD on spells, they STILL do not do what you described.
The point, again, that I've made is that Sorcerers themselves are the weakest class when it comes to using class abilities against a dodge roller, but every other class has pretty valid options for killing a dodge roller in their tracks.
So your analogy is just heavily misleading in the best of cases, and extremely self-serving in the worst.
0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭These abilities should NOT go through dodge roll. Its way to easy for a DK to jist spam 7k lava whips on a player using his only defense abilities. Especially if that player is CC immune.
7k.... /roll eyes
maybe if they're crits against a vampire while stacking damage really high......maybe
your view of the game is questionable.
don't roll your eyes, 7k hits are normal for my death recap. yes, vampire. no, not light armor.
Let's not go around calling crits against a vampire the normal damage, especially with all the nirnhoned out there.Edited by Domander on 7 May 2015 06:590 -
Opux✭✭✭So, now even Sypher has switched back to magicka nightblade and is using 8k base undodgeable concealed weapons. It's time to fix this, or it's just staves & skirts online all over again.0
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I didn't say anything about you playing a Sorc. You're the one channeling that nonsense. Guess what, I ALSO play a Sorc.
Oh Em Gee.
The point that I was making is that a Sorc never just stands there and spams shields, ever, unless they are completely terrible at this game. The point is that your analogy was ridiculous in the first place and shouldn't even exist, because regardless of whether a Sorc has to contend w/ the GCD on spells, they STILL do not do what you described.
The point, again, that I've made is that Sorcerers themselves are the weakest class when it comes to using class abilities against a dodge roller, but every other class has pretty valid options for killing a dodge roller in their tracks.
So your analogy is just heavily misleading in the best of cases, and extremely self-serving in the worst.
No the totally absurd "Point" you tried to make that started us down this whole ridiculous exercise was that:We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
To which I tried to educate you on the obvious various differences between the ability and the combat mechanic. Your notion that because some abilities can hit a dodge roller, other abilities should be able to hit through shields is nothing other than absurd. There are already plenty of counters to damage shields and limitations, just like there are to dodge roll.
I know no Sorc just stands there and spams shields, they die every time they try that but even doing that they can only absorb (for me) 11K DPS. It's very different, stronger in some ways, far weaker in others. It also depends on who is attacking you, with what abilities and how many of them there are.
I wasn't trying to prove anything else, nor is my point "Self-serving" in any way because Guess what, I ALSO play a NB.
Edited by Ezareth on 9 May 2015 00:19Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭I didn't say anything about you playing a Sorc. You're the one channeling that nonsense. Guess what, I ALSO play a Sorc.
Oh Em Gee.
The point that I was making is that a Sorc never just stands there and spams shields, ever, unless they are completely terrible at this game. The point is that your analogy was ridiculous in the first place and shouldn't even exist, because regardless of whether a Sorc has to contend w/ the GCD on spells, they STILL do not do what you described.
The point, again, that I've made is that Sorcerers themselves are the weakest class when it comes to using class abilities against a dodge roller, but every other class has pretty valid options for killing a dodge roller in their tracks.
So your analogy is just heavily misleading in the best of cases, and extremely self-serving in the worst.
No the totally absurd "Point" you tried to make that started us down this whole ridiculous exercise was that:We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
To which I tried to educate you on the obvious various differences between the ability and the combat mechanic. Your notion that because some abilities can hit a dodge roller, other abilities should be able to hit through shields is nothing other than absurd. There are already plenty of counters to damage shields and limitations, just like there are to dodge roll.
I know no Sorc just stands there and spams shields, they die every time they try that but even doing that they can only absorb (for me) 11K DPS. It's very different, stronger in some ways, far weaker in others. It also depends on who is attacking you, with what abilities and how many of them there are.
I wasn't trying to prove anything else, nor is my point "Self-serving" in any way because Guess what, I ALSO play a NB.
I've explained, more than once now, that the absurdity of that point was fully intentional to illustrate just how ludicrous it was to say that every class needs to have multiple abilities that hit through dodge rolling.
You don't need to educate me on anything, because I understand the mechanics quite well.
From what I can tell, you completely missed the point of the post that you just quoted and are actually agreeing w/ me and just don't know it.
Also, you play a lowbie NB in Blackwater Blade. That's almost as close to not playing a NB at all as you can get w/out just never having selected it on the character select screen.
/shrug
PS) Are you really going to talk about "education" while quoting a response to YOUR post talking about how there are abilities that bypass shields because HARNESS MAGICKA?
...seriously?Edited by Varicite on 9 May 2015 00:370 -
Sypher✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So, now even Sypher has switched back to magicka nightblade and is using 8k base undodgeable concealed weapons. It's time to fix this, or it's just staves & skirts online all over again.
Believe me when I say that the only reason I switched to magicka Nightblade was because playing stamina nightblade felt like a cake walk so I got bored and decided to spice things up a bit.
Keep Whip/Concealed the way it is. Dodge roll needs to have a fair amount of counters (This is coming from someone who absolutely loves his stam NB and preforms best with a stam NB)
DC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher
Youtube: www.youtube.com/SypherPK
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/SypherPK1 -
Sypher✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
High Regen + High Max Magicka = Perma Cloak build = Khajiit passive 10% damage while sneaking.
Max magicka/crit from inner light
and of course the current damage in the photo is NOT counting the degen spell power boost + im not using Relentless Focus for 8%.
Keep in mind that's with might of the guild passive activated.DC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher
Youtube: www.youtube.com/SypherPK
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/SypherPK0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭
High Regen + High Max Magicka = Perma Cloak build = Khajiit passive 10% damage while sneaking.
Max magicka/crit from inner light
and of course the current damage in the photo is NOT counting the degen spell power boost + im not using Relentless Focus for 8%.
Keep in mind that's with might of the guild passive activated.
ahh true, but 20% from entropy + 8% from grim focus + khait outta sneak bonus still apply (which isnt stacked on the picture)
since ya know might of the guild and 20% major spell power buff stack
still pretty damn close to 20% for a skill I could spam.Edited by Araxleon on 9 May 2015 03:180 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭So, now even Sypher has switched back to magicka nightblade and is using 8k base undodgeable concealed weapons. It's time to fix this, or it's just staves & skirts online all over again.
you are aware suprise attack does the same lmao it has nothing to do with conceal.
down the champion point road atm stamina will beat magicka, magicka builds dont have many passives that are really cool or good (towards the end of the trees) and stamina builds will be getting many passives which will give them more damage and allow them to roll more (more than they do now)Edited by Araxleon on 9 May 2015 03:211 -
Opux✭✭✭you are aware suprise attack does the same lmao it has nothing to do with conceal.
Surprise attack does not go through dodge roll, that's the problem. Nothing should hard counter a playstyle to this extent - it would be similar to a parallel world where all shields worked like harness magicka and only blocked spell damage. Sounds dumb, right?Believe me when I say that the only reason I switched to magicka Nightblade was because playing stamina nightblade felt like a cake walk so I got bored and decided to spice things up a bit.
Keep Whip/Concealed the way it is. Dodge roll needs to have a fair amount of counters (This is coming from someone who absolutely loves his stam NB and preforms best with a stam NB)
Interesting. I was watching your stream earlier and it didn't seem like there was any huge detriment to going magicka - in fact I specifically remember at one point you crushing somebody while exclaiming "you cant dodge roll it!".
I'm all for counters, but I want them to be consistent. There is no reason for these two abilities to go through dodge roll:- The base versions don't.
- It isn't listed in the skill description.
- Other melee magicka abilities don't.
Counters to dodge roll should follow a pattern, so people can play with them in mind. Channeled beams are distinctive. Ground AoEs are distinctive. Guessing if that NB on you is using concealed or surprise attack isn't distinctive.Edited by Opux on 9 May 2015 04:052 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭you are aware suprise attack does the same lmao it has nothing to do with conceal.
Surprise attack does not go through dodge roll, that's the problem. Nothing should hard counter a playstyle to this extent - it would be similar to a parallel world where all shields worked like harness magicka and only blocked spell damage. Sounds dumb, right?Believe me when I say that the only reason I switched to magicka Nightblade was because playing stamina nightblade felt like a cake walk so I got bored and decided to spice things up a bit.
Keep Whip/Concealed the way it is. Dodge roll needs to have a fair amount of counters (This is coming from someone who absolutely loves his stam NB and preforms best with a stam NB)
Interesting. I was watching your stream earlier and it didn't seem like there was any huge detriment to going magicka - in fact I specifically remember at one point you crushing somebody while exclaiming "you cant dodge roll it!".
I'm all for counters, but I want them to be consistent. There is no reason for these two abilities to go through dodge roll:- The base versions don't.
- It isn't listed in the skill description.
- Other melee magicka abilities don't.
Counters to dodge roll should follow a pattern, so people can play with them in mind. Channeled beams are distinctive. Ground AoEs are distinctive. Guessing if that NB on you is using concealed or surprise attack isn't distinctive.
thats odd cuz in 1.5 it did... must have something to do with the cost being magicka? idk0 -
TheBucket✭✭✭✭Yea. Magic NB is thuglife
Wont go back to stamina ever since the first two weeks felt like cheating after 1.6 droppedWilliam Reignes
Magic Nightblade - Rogue Bomber
Creator of Thirsty Thief Build (Retired 1.5)0 -
Rust_in_Peace✭✭✭✭✭Since this turned into another ezareth/sorc crybaby thread I will actually educate people on the "issue" of dodge rolling:
- you are hard countered by any channel ability
- you are hard countered by any ground aoe
- you are hard countered by many magicka single target spam ability (molten whip, concealed wep, velocious curse, force shock, detonation, etc.)
Things that hard counter damage shields:
- Nothing.
That completes our class for today.
1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rust_in_Peace wrote: »Since this turned into another ezareth/sorc crybaby thread I will actually educate people on the "issue" of dodge rolling:
- you are hard countered by any channel ability
- you are hard countered by any ground aoe
- you are hard countered by many magicka single target spam ability (molten whip, concealed wep, velocious curse, force shock, detonation, etc.)
Things that hard counter damage shields:
- Nothing.
That completes our class for today.
Curse and magica detonation both have 3.5 / 4 second timers. Rally alone is enough to outheal their dmg. Force shock is dodgeable. Please stop spreading misinformation.
Try using abilities in between dodges - helps quite a bit.
Dmg shields don´t need a hardcounter bc they don´t make you immune to most dmging abilities and cc. Dodgeroll does.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dmg shields don´t need a hardcounter bc they don´t make you immune to most dmging abilities
I'm sorry, what?
Shields make you immune to every damaging ability while it's active, and can be spammed every bit as much as dodge rolling.
Rally outhealing damage for certain low-damage abilities (mostly Sorc skills) is completely irrelevant because Magicka builds also use utility skills such as heals, teleports, cloaks, purges, etc to bolster the defenses of their shields.
People, stop using this silly comparison between shields alone and dodge rolling PLUS RALLY / VIGOR. It doesn't work. It never worked. You cannot compare 1 defensive ability to 2-3 separate defensive abilities used in tandem.
Just stop.
Edited by Varicite on 9 May 2015 13:123 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dmg shields don´t need a hardcounter bc they don´t make you immune to most dmging abilities
I'm sorry, what?
Shields make you immune to every damaging ability while it's active, and can be spammed every bit as much as dodge rolling.
Rally outhealing damage for certain low-damage abilities (mostly Sorc skills) is completely irrelevant because Magicka builds also use utility skills such as heals, teleports, cloaks, purges, etc to bolster the defenses of their shields.
People, stop using this silly comparison between shields alone and dodge rolling PLUS RALLY / VIGOR. It doesn't work. It never worked. You cannot compare 1 defensive ability to 2-3 separate defensive abilities used in tandem.
Just stop.
Then why do you compare dodge roll alone against the six to eight defensive skills I use on my Sorc?
You know very well that dodge rolling alone will much easier safe you than just spamming Hardened Ward like an idiot.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Rust_in_Peace✭✭✭✭✭
Curse and magica detonation both have 3.5 / 4 second timers. Rally alone is enough to outheal their dmg. Force shock is dodgeable. Please stop spreading misinformation.
Try using abilities in between dodges - helps quite a bit.
Dmg shields don´t need a hardcounter bc they don´t make you immune to most dmging abilities and cc. Dodgeroll does.
If someone is dodge rolling you have time to cast and rally won't out heal someone who is setting up their burst properly.
On top of that if you're rallying between every roll you're perma rolling days will end pretty quickly.
"They don't make you immune" Actually, they do!1
