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@ ZOS - Question on Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
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I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube3 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I play heavy dodge roll classes, and I think Concealed and Lava Whip should go through Dodge Roll.
Not sure how I feel about Radiant Destruction though doing it
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
Dots need to ignore Shields, like Certain magic attacks ignore Dodge Roll
That way Dots have a purpose..
By the way, I love how you mention harness magicka...knowing full well which shield he was referring to.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭You can roll dodge about almost everything and keep up that roll for AWHILE (if you built your stam build right)
I think its good that it hits...otherwise... they are even worse then they are now...
I hope shields and rolls are reworked ;P0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭It seems spells that are not projectiles go through dodge roll. Considering how much crap magicka has to deal with and the OPness of dodge rolling forever...it's much needed.1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
Edited by Varicite on 1 May 2015 01:201 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
Because the 100% is plain wrong when you are talking about shields... they don't absorb 100% of the damage done for a fixed duration like a dodge roll, they absorb damage until a certain number of damage has been done.
So if you would make skills able to bypass shields, you would with the same logic have a dodge roll only make you dodge until a certain amount of damage has been dodged. Then it would be balanced - and the same. It's a stupid idea.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The Sorcerers crying about roll dodgers are just beyond pathetic at this point.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »The Sorcerers crying about roll dodgers are just beyond pathetic at this point.
Yep, just like the NBs crying about Sorcs. What happened to you within those 3 months...DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
Because the 100% is plain wrong when you are talking about shields... they don't absorb 100% of the damage done for a fixed duration like a dodge roll, they absorb damage until a certain number of damage has been done.
So if you would make skills able to bypass shields, you would with the same logic have a dodge roll only make you dodge until a certain amount of damage has been dodged. Then it would be balanced - and the same. It's a stupid idea.
Dodge Roll lasts like 1.5 seconds. Yes, if everybody were to target you in that instant and unload and you dodged, you'd be able to dodge an infinite amount of damage.
That is, unless they were using abilities like Lava Whip, in which case you would dodge 0 damage. And die.
Whereas a shield, while only taking a fixed amount of damage before you recast the shield, as long as you are not taking more damage than your shield + your entire health bar in a 1.2 second period (GCD length), you are safe. You are 100% safe.
I'm glad that you see that these abilities are different, though. That's really what I was trying to get people to realize by playing devil's advocate.
The second that we start going overboard w/ "Man, dodge rolls are OP, we need MORE COUNTERS, ALL THE COUNTERS", we start down a slippery path where many other similar abilities are going to also need to be looked at. And "fixed".
This was really mostly a response to:
"every class should have an ability that can hit through dodge roll".
And yes, if that were to happen, I would most definitely be on a soapbox crusading for every class to also have an ability that bypasses shields.
Edited by Varicite on 1 May 2015 01:391 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
Because the 100% is plain wrong when you are talking about shields... they don't absorb 100% of the damage done for a fixed duration like a dodge roll, they absorb damage until a certain number of damage has been done.
So if you would make skills able to bypass shields, you would with the same logic have a dodge roll only make you dodge until a certain amount of damage has been dodged. Then it would be balanced - and the same. It's a stupid idea.
Dodge Roll lasts like 1.5 seconds. Yes, if everybody were to target you in that instant and unload and you dodged, you'd be able to dodge an infinite amount of damage.
That is, unless they were using abilities like Lava Whip, in which case you would dodge 0 damage. And die.
Whereas a shield, while only taking a fixed amount of damage before you recast the shield, as long as you are not taking more damage than your shield + your entire health bar in a 1.2 second period (GCD length), you are safe. You are 100% safe.
I'm glad that you see that these abilities are different, though. That's really what I was trying to get people to realize by playing devil's advocate.
The second that we start going overboard w/ "Man, dodge rolls are OP, we need MORE COUNTERS, ALL THE COUNTERS", we start down a slippery path where many other similar abilities are going to also need to be looked at. And "fixed".
This was really mostly a response to:
"every class should have an ability that can hit through dodge roll".
And yes, if that were to happen, I would most definitely be on a soapbox crusading for every class to also have an ability that bypasses shields.
With shields I am 100% safe if the incoming damage until I cast the next shield does not exceed shield strength.
One heavy attack + Wrecking Blow and the shield is gone, the player CC'ed and in the air, even if he breaks he could be oneshot now. If he invested more into health at the expense of magicka, the damage shield was gone with less damage and he'll die anyway.
But glad to see you understand they are different - sure you wanted me to realize that
. DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭With shields I am 100% safe if the incoming damage until I cast the next shield does not exceed shield strength.
One heavy attack + Wrecking Blow and the shield is gone
Why were you just standing there twiddling your thumbs for 3 seconds to get hit by a heavy attack AND a Wrecking Blow?If he invested more into health at the expense of magicka, the damage shield was gone with less damage and he'll die anyway.
He was probably going to die anyway because he was either afk or, y'know... bad.
/shrug
2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With shields I am 100% safe if the incoming damage until I cast the next shield does not exceed shield strength.
One heavy attack + Wrecking Blow and the shield is gone
Why were you just standing there twiddling your thumbs for 3 seconds to get hit by a heavy attack AND a Wrecking Blow?If he invested more into health at the expense of magicka, the damage shield was gone with less damage and he'll die anyway.
He was probably going to die anyway because he was either afk or, y'know... bad.
/shrug
I certainly would not just let someone do that to me. You are comparing dodge roll to shields, you showed how you can die spamming dodge roll, I showed how you can die spamming shields. Obviously, in both cases you need more than that if you want to survive.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭With shields I am 100% safe if the incoming damage until I cast the next shield does not exceed shield strength.
One heavy attack + Wrecking Blow and the shield is gone
Why were you just standing there twiddling your thumbs for 3 seconds to get hit by a heavy attack AND a Wrecking Blow?If he invested more into health at the expense of magicka, the damage shield was gone with less damage and he'll die anyway.
He was probably going to die anyway because he was either afk or, y'know... bad.
/shrug
I certainly would not just let someone do that to me. You are comparing dodge roll to shields, you showed how you can die spamming dodge roll, I showed how you can die spamming shields. Obviously, in both cases you need more than that if you want to survive.
Yes, but in your example, the guy using shields was a moron. <.<
In my example, the guy using dodge rolls would have gotten hit regardless, because those abilities simply bypass his defense mechanic entirely.
He didn't just stand there for 3 seconds watching somebody wind up the 2 slowest, heaviest attacks that he can muster and not do anything about it. : P2 -
TheBucket✭✭✭✭These abilities should NOT go through dodge roll. Its way to easy for a DK to jist spam 7k lava whips on a player using his only defense abilities. Especially if that player is CC immune.
That's why you have cloak and a host of other defensive abilities you can slot like shades, blur, evasion etc.
I think every class needs an ability that can hit a player in Dodge roll. If concealed weapon, Daedric Curse, Jesus Beam, and Lava Whip don't how will those people ever die? Impulse spam? lol.
I spent 500 ultimate heavy power overloading a nightblade who was dodge rolling away from me last night. 30 seconds of ultimating him with 5K Heavy attacks and by the time he reached the friendly lines he was running to he was at 100% health due to vigor spam (while perma rolling). You guys seriously want to make these even more OP?
I love when my predictions come true. This is rich.
My L21 Nightblade is now able to dodge roll 12 times in a row and he hasn't even unlocked the medium dodge roll passives yet haha.
Come on E. Cloak? If you are melee it only takes a swing in that direction to break it. Flame Lash Also breaks Cloak most if the time and any other ability.
Its not making them OP by saying abilites should be able to be freaking dodged in a live action combat game. How would you feel if abilites went threw ward?
No prediction came true. You just have your own agenda and it gets old after a while.William Reignes
Magic Nightblade - Rogue Bomber
Creator of Thirsty Thief Build (Retired 1.5)1 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
Sure. Just make Dodge roll take an active ability slot and reduce the reduction bonuses for champion points to it to 15.8% and decrease the medium armor passive to 21% and make it so that it can only avoid a finite amount of unmitigated damage (it can ignore crits, fine by me).
Since you guys want to make absurd comparisons, I can do that too.
Obviously you'll only be happy when Dodge roll mitigates 100% of all damage and the entire game just becomes a game of doing nothing but rolling around the map.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
aco5712✭✭✭✭✭while we are talking about these two skills. Why can they be reflected by eclipse? I thought eclipse was supposed to be a templars reflect for projectiles, not all single target moves?Banned for Naming and Shaming exploiters. Great ideology ZOS.
#FreeLeo
Main: Vir Cor | Dragonknight
Alt: Leo Cor | Nightblade
Alt: Leonidas Cor | Templar
Guild: K-Hole
Youtube: CorESO
DK PvP Tank/DPS Hybrid Build (2.1+): Cor Leonis0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
I can only mitigate 11K DPS with shields. There is this thing called a GCD. I can only cast my shields once a second for 11K. Exceed 11KDPS and you hit my health pool. Continue to exceed 11K DPS and I die if I "Spam Shields". This is what all these bads really can't understand who complain about damage shields...they scale far worse than dodge roll as the amount of damage increases. Put 3 people on me and if I'm not dodge rolling myself I'm dead, every time unless those 3 people are just terrible players. Put 3 people on a dodge roller with vigor and I guarantee you that player will outlast the person standing there spamming shields.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Obviously you'll only be happy when Dodge roll mitigates 100% of all damage and the entire game just becomes a game of doing nothing but rolling around the map.I don't know if it's intended, but there should probably be a few abilities that can counter dodge rolling now that it's no longer such a limited-use ability.
Well now, this is awkward.1 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭These abilities should NOT go through dodge roll. Its way to easy for a DK to jist spam 7k lava whips on a player using his only defense abilities. Especially if that player is CC immune.
That's why you have cloak and a host of other defensive abilities you can slot like shades, blur, evasion etc.
I think every class needs an ability that can hit a player in Dodge roll. If concealed weapon, Daedric Curse, Jesus Beam, and Lava Whip don't how will those people ever die? Impulse spam? lol.
I spent 500 ultimate heavy power overloading a nightblade who was dodge rolling away from me last night. 30 seconds of ultimating him with 5K Heavy attacks and by the time he reached the friendly lines he was running to he was at 100% health due to vigor spam (while perma rolling). You guys seriously want to make these even more OP?
I love when my predictions come true. This is rich.
My L21 Nightblade is now able to dodge roll 12 times in a row and he hasn't even unlocked the medium dodge roll passives yet haha.
Come on E. Cloak? If you are melee it only takes a swing in that direction to break it. Flame Lash Also breaks Cloak most if the time and any other ability.
Its not making them OP by saying abilites should be able to be freaking dodged in a live action combat game. How would you feel if abilites went threw ward?
No prediction came true. You just have your own agenda and it gets old after a while.
Cloak is an amazing ability against non-melee classes.
I don't have an agenda other than I know right now just how powerful Dodge roll is and if it is buffed in any way it's going to be absurdly OP. Guess how much time I've been playing my sorc in the past week? Barely at all. I'm too busy rolling around Black water blade on my NB.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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I can ask you the same thing... I don't remember your judgement being this clouded, but I guess sipping from the cup of OP causes this, just as it has with Dragon Knights in the past. But, just like the Dragon Knights, you will also be brought back in line with the rest.Lava_Croft wrote: »The Sorcerers crying about roll dodgers are just beyond pathetic at this point.
Yep, just like the NBs crying about Sorcs. What happened to you within those 3 months...
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ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭while we are talking about these two skills. Why can they be reflected by eclipse? I thought eclipse was supposed to be a templars reflect for projectiles, not all single target moves?
It's supposed to reflect all single target spells.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
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I agree, and those same abilities should also bypass shields
*Every* ability hits shields and some abilities already do bypass shields. Ever get killed with Harness Magicka up? I have.
Dodge roll however 100% avoids damage from the majority of attacks and can be spammed virtually infinitely.
I'm glad I could educate you.
There is no ability in this game that bypasses shields.
No, Harness Magicka doesn't count, because it's not "bypassing" anything, Harness Magicka very clearly states that it only effects spells on its tooltip. Just like Bone Shield only effects physical damage.
Shields always mitigate 100% of damage taken while they are active.
Dodge roll mitigates 100% of damage taken by many abilities, but most notably does nothing against channeled magicka attacks, ground targeted AoEs, and of course Lava Whip and Concealed Weapon (the hardest hitting single-target magicka attacks for DK and NB, respectively).
We can follow this train of thought pretty logically to its conclusion that if some abilities need to bypass dodge rolling, then some abilities also need to bypass shield spam.
What's good for the goose, right?
We could also follow that same logic and say if we pump enough damage in that roll dodger, it must hit him, for the sake of balance. It's just 2 different defense mechanisms, why equalize them?
If one thing needs to have a counter, why does the other... not?
And "pump enough damage into that dodge roller, it must hit him" is exactly what people have been complaining about for weeks now, and the primary reason that people feel that abilities like Lava Whip / Concealed Weapon should go through dodge rolls.
So again, if you're going to use that logic to say that dodge rolling needs to have counters because it's spammable for a very long time now and mitigates 100% damage to most abilities while doing it, it is not really a stretch at all to say that this also applies to shields.
Spammable for a very long time, mitigates 100% of damage of ALL abilities while doing it, has zero countering abilities, much longer protection duration when not being pressured.
/shrug
I can only mitigate 11K DPS with shields. There is this thing called a GCD. I can only cast my shields once a second for 11K. Exceed 11KDPS and you hit my health pool. Continue to exceed 11K DPS and I die if I "Spam Shields". This is what all these bads really can't understand who complain about damage shields...they scale far worse than dodge roll as the amount of damage increases. Put 3 people on me and if I'm not dodge rolling myself I'm dead, every time unless those 3 people are just terrible players. Put 3 people on a dodge roller with vigor and I guarantee you that player will outlast the person standing there spamming shields.
Unless there..ya know..Templars/Magicka NBs/DK's who FlameLash and sorcs who do Curse+ID...Then they're dead.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unless there..ya know..Templars/Magicka NBs/DK's who FlameLash and sorcs who do Curse+ID...Then they're dead.
He's also comparing stam builds dodge rolling + Vigor to a Sorc standing there doing nothing else at all but spamming shields.
Because we all know that's how Sorcs fight, people get on top of them, and they stop doing anything else except hit their shield button. They certainly don't attempt to kite or anything.
In what world is using 2 defensive abilities the same as using 1 defensive ability?
Not sure why people keep trying to make this silly comparison. The argument is so transparent it's laughable.2 -
TheBucket✭✭✭✭Heh, it is laughable that people argue something they have no idea about.
I want to hear more about how a low level NB is rolling around in blackwater where half the people dont know anything about the game.
This thread can basically be summed up as a Soec who cant overload a dodge roller. Yet has 3-4 more abilities thay can.William Reignes
Magic Nightblade - Rogue Bomber
Creator of Thirsty Thief Build (Retired 1.5)0 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭they go thru dodge, and should remain that way imo.
infinite dodge rolling is a problem as it is, if it was virtually unfightable, it would be chaotic.Edited by Cody on 4 May 2015 00:360 -
Waylander✭✭✭✭What is laughable is that the two strongest classes spend the most time pointing at each other on the forums and saying nerf them.
NB's who don't think they are strong need to learn the power of fear and burst. It is absurdly strong.
Sorc's who don't think they are strong need to play a class without effective shields and an escape. It is also absurdly strong.
We should be focused on what we could do to bring up DK's and Templars (not that there aren't very strong DK's and Temps doing just fine) to the same level of Sorc and NB.
But first we should address the very low TTK. Where is @Pixysticks with his list of what to change, it makes more sense than most of the posts I read here.Edited by Waylander on 4 May 2015 02:39Nocturnal - AD Oceanic PvP Guild
Waylander
Frankie
Krylla
Uniter
Macgyverr
Ivy2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What is laughable is that the two strongest classes spend the most time pointing at each other on the forums and saying nerf them.
NB's who don't think they are strong need to learn the power of fear and burst. It is absurdly strong.
Sorc's who don't think they are strong need to play a class without effective shields and an escape. It is also absurdly strong.
If we focused on what we could do to bring DK's (mostly magica, stam DK's are only a little behind stam nightblades) and Templars (although the ability that kills me far more than any other is one or two jesus beams from someone I am not engaging).
Where is @Pixysticks with his list of what to change, it makes more sense than most of the posts I read here.
Agreed it would make more sense bringing classes/setups up on that level... but I honestly think it would likely lead right into then next disaster if they'd actually manage to balance the classes out well now and the try to make resource management more important again, increase TTK etc.
That stuff that effects more or less everyone needs to be "fixed" first if some decent balance should come out in the end.Edited by ToRelax on 4 May 2015 02:44DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0
