Lethal Arrow - rage!!!

Derra

I normally don´t die to archers except when they shoot me in the back while fighting someone else and my shield was already low/down.
However with the current ping/lagspikes in the ava campaigns it sometimes happens that i get killed without anything happening on my screen (or out of my speakers). I just drop dead. It´s not an archer problem but more of general server lag.

That said: I hate stealth gameplay with a passion and hope that one day it won´t be vaible anymore. I´d trade bolt escape for that.

Tankqull

maryriv wrote: »

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

I thought that Lethal Arrow was nerfed in 1.6, but I guess it's not and the damages it cause seems to be in par with the best Ultimates in the game.
I am on a horse with full stamina, and then I see a death recap like in the attached screenshots:


I am VR14 5 medium 2 heavy and it takes a second to shot me?! No fighting chance, and another 5 minutes travel to the battelfield.

Is there really only a two play styles available for PvP right now: shoot from behind and zerg? Sad times...

You have to dispel the dot, also block when you hear the sound of it coming in.

great tip when the arrow inc sound file is played after you released to the way shrine...

ScruffyWhiskers

Derra wrote: »

That said: I hate stealth gameplay with a passion and hope that one day it won´t be vaible anymore. I´d trade bolt escape for that.

Funny that. I really don't like the whole out in the open sustain, resource management, shield stacking game play. I start to get jumpy if I don't see a closed eye. That said, I'm not a fan of the bow sniping for 12k play style either. I only wish I could get solid 12k hits from concealed weapon. My magicka melee NB has been gimped into Oblivion. Plus I've got to get close and worry about all the anti-stealth/invis counter measures.

Derra

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

That said: I hate stealth gameplay with a passion and hope that one day it won´t be vaible anymore. I´d trade bolt escape for that.

Funny that. I really don't like the whole out in the open sustain, resource management, shield stacking game play. I start to get jumpy if I don't see a closed eye. That said, I'm not a fan of the bow sniping for 12k play style either. I only wish I could get solid 12k hits from concealed weapon. My magicka melee NB has been gimped into Oblivion. Plus I've got to get close and worry about all the anti-stealth/invis counter measures.

I´m not built for sustain either. You can actually do dmg without throat slitting.
I just like my opponent to see and realise how i´m dismantling their every move. It´s a special pleasure when they try to get away in the end.

What bothers me about stealth gameplay is that its unfun for the victim and 99% of the time they´ve got nothing to gain from it. You can get something (maybe even fun / experience) out of a lost fight. When there is no chance in fighting back there is no fun to be had for the receiving end.
That´s why i hunt down those backstabbing scumbags with all the detect pots i can drink :P.

cozmon3c_ESO

I dont mind the stealther who runs up behind me and 2 shot me like i do the lethal arrow bs. sunshine did it to me the other day, that took more skill then someone sitting off in the distance and 1-2 shotting me and then is invisible again so i cant find the f'er if i survive. if you shoot someone with an arrow you should not be able to return to stealth, yes you should be able to cloak but so many times these bow users are able to stealth again and wail on me with the stealth damage increase AGAIN!

90% i die is from bow spam, its irritating and takes near 0 skill to pull off, the other 10% is from skaffa and his petrify wrecking blow combo, lol.

i want a good fight that i can actually fight back, i tried radiant magelight and it was still happening 1-2 shot, so there is no point in using that (maybe its bugged). best counter i have found is to used defensive rune, it stuns them, maybe giving you time to put on a shield again. but when there are 2 or more of these bow users there is no counter to that, they are like machine gun turrets and they are always out of range of your attacks before you eat 2 or 3 lethal arrows to the face.

technohic

Has anyone been focused by a handfull at the same time yet? I'm wearing 5 heavy 1 light 1 medium and got the first plunk; blocked, watched my stamina just drop then dead. just over 9k damage from 3 different lethal arrow users + some other stuff in my recap. Should have screen shotted so I could look over and evaluate it more.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

Cody wrote: »

most of these people cant defend themselves very well. I know this because this is how my VR14 is built. I do a crap ton of damage, but my survivablility is low.

this is nothing new. People have been dealing with this for months. learn to re-act quick enough and charge the sniper if you can.

Lol months?
try over a decade.

every PvP game has supported and catered to the RDPS (ranged DPS) builds.
If you look at the current pvp scene look no further than Archeage (and that IS P2W)-- where you have war spell lines and archer spells lines out of control.

Aion-- rangers and sorcs-- lol they get the drop on you its over

Shadowbane original-- scout, and vamp scouts no less

DAoC-- the 3 archers as well as most realms DD casters-- warlock, chanters, theurgs to name a few.


and the list goes on.

No one with pvp MMO experience should ever be surprised by the 1 shot pvp death from afar.

kokoandshinb14a_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

I dont mind the stealther who runs up behind me and 2 shot me like i do the lethal arrow bs. sunshine did it to me the other day, that took more skill then someone sitting off in the distance and 1-2 shotting me and then is invisible again so i cant find the f'er if i survive. if you shoot someone with an arrow you should not be able to return to stealth, yes you should be able to cloak but so many times these bow users are able to stealth again and wail on me with the stealth damage increase AGAIN!

90% i die is from bow spam, its irritating and takes near 0 skill to pull off, the other 10% is from skaffa and his petrify wrecking blow combo, lol.

i want a good fight that i can actually fight back, i tried radiant magelight and it was still happening 1-2 shot, so there is no point in using that (maybe its bugged). best counter i have found is to used defensive rune, it stuns them, maybe giving you time to put on a shield again. but when there are 2 or more of these bow users there is no counter to that, they are like machine gun turrets and they are always out of range of your attacks before you eat 2 or 3 lethal arrows to the face.

in RvR PVP-- the only way you will ever get a fair fight is to join a dueling guild.

If this were a real war-- and you represented side A, and in your travels you came upon a lone soldier from side B while with your squad.

What do you and your squad do....?

OrphanHelgen

patrykplawskib16_ESO wrote: »

This is only possible for one reason and that's momentum from 2h tree skill if they fix that he wont do 12k any more only 8k or lower

ever heard of pots?

Joy_Division

kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

I dont mind the stealther who runs up behind me and 2 shot me like i do the lethal arrow bs. sunshine did it to me the other day, that took more skill then someone sitting off in the distance and 1-2 shotting me and then is invisible again so i cant find the f'er if i survive. if you shoot someone with an arrow you should not be able to return to stealth, yes you should be able to cloak but so many times these bow users are able to stealth again and wail on me with the stealth damage increase AGAIN!

90% i die is from bow spam, its irritating and takes near 0 skill to pull off, the other 10% is from skaffa and his petrify wrecking blow combo, lol.

i want a good fight that i can actually fight back, i tried radiant magelight and it was still happening 1-2 shot, so there is no point in using that (maybe its bugged). best counter i have found is to used defensive rune, it stuns them, maybe giving you time to put on a shield again. but when there are 2 or more of these bow users there is no counter to that, they are like machine gun turrets and they are always out of range of your attacks before you eat 2 or 3 lethal arrows to the face.

in RvR PVP-- the only way you will ever get a fair fight is to join a dueling guild.

If this were a real war-- and you represented side A, and in your travels you came upon a lone soldier from side B while with your squad.

What do you and your squad do....?

Ideally capture him for intel.

But, yeah, ranged DPS is difficult to counter. If I am getting attacked by more than one, I find withdrawal is best option most of the time.

eventide03b14a_ESO

This really only became a problem when they reduced the casting time of this ability while also increasing it's damage.

Davadin

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

I thought that Lethal Arrow was nerfed in 1.6, but I guess it's not and the damages it cause seems to be in par with the best Ultimates in the game.
I am on a horse with full stamina, and then I see a death recap like in the attached screenshots:


I am VR14 5 medium 2 heavy and it takes a second to shot me?! No fighting chance, and another 5 minutes travel to the battelfield.

Is there really only a two play styles available for PvP right now: shoot from behind and zerg? Sad times...

those are my screens a LOT of times last night.

i'm a VR13 DK with all mediums.

thing is, i'm stamina build (not the best equipment, granted), but i carry a bow too and NEVER i could dream i can hit for 10k+ damage..... i don't get it.

but yes, snipe could have a LITTLE nerf...

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Hell I was killed by a freaking *22K* wrecking blow last night.

Physical damage is off the charts yet what are people clamoring for? Nerf Sorc shields lol.

These LolSnipers need to go play call of duty or something. Players 1-shotting each other is not the way the game should play.

How on earth did you eat a 22k wrecking blow? Cause even stacking weapon damage I come no where near that. Was it from stealth? Or maybe after he blocked a heavy attack?

I'm VR13 DK with 20k stam and 2k wep damage. If i hit Rally then hit someone with 2 Wrecking Blows, the 2nd one can crit to almost 15k.... (WB gives 20% boost to next attack, even another WB).

and i got sucky crafted green gears (wait til im VR14 yo!).

on PvE, on VR10 mob, i crit over 26k on 1st hit without boost....

WB is sick.

technohic

I'm not sure it is just snipe. I still think light armor is too squishy and with that, all the armors should be mitigating more. Maybe it also has to do with penetration is calculated

Pirhana7_ESO

Its a sneak attack, they have to be behind you and attack from stealth. This is the risk you take while riding your horse. You can also sneak and avoid being a huge target. Once you get hit you can block and see your target and engage them.

Soarin'

I see the regular sorc wail squad has arrived at this thread already after detouring from the "shield QQ" threads.

Bow got hit by another nerf recently which you dispute as to whether or not it happened. It was a 20% nerf to base damage of bows, that's a pretty big hit.

You were likely hit by the following combination:
Piercing Mark + Weapon power pot + Rally + Relentless Focus + Camo hunter + damage bonus from range using bow passive
Snipe/Focused Aim + Shadowy disguise repetitions for guaranteed crits.
Shadow Star sign + divines + racials for attack damage bonus from stealth
CP in Piercing and Precision strikes (more armour mitigation and more damage from stealth).
Bow with piercing, hundings rage/morag tong/shadow walker armour sets

So here he has dedicated his skill set, CP armour and weapon to do just 1 thing: Wrecking shots from stealth against unsuspecting players.

Can you avoid it?
If you are on a horse... no, that second shot will kill you.
If you are on foot... yes, CC break and dodge roll.

If he fails to kill you with his opening attacks then battle goes very sour for him very quickly, he has already consumed most of his magika weaving in shadowy disguise and using piercing mark and his health will be minimal at best. You hit him and watch the glass shatter.

It's a build that does 1 thing and fails miserably outside of that scenario, in my opinion the amount of specialisation required for this build makes it pretty dull. People do it however because its easier than putting themselves at risk with close combat and allows them to feel powerful.

If you travel in a 2 or 3 you should not have any problems, else take the less obvious route to your destination which will probably be devoid of gankers.

cozmon3c_ESO

killing gankers was my joy in 1.5, now its my bane go figure lol.

Soarin'

I enjoy ganking, if you can call it that in this game. It's a very different experience to that which I have on EVE Online, the brutality is nothing here by comparison. If it is a 1 v 1 it is a fair fight as far as I am concerned, often I will sit out and wait if I see two other players fighting even if it results in a friendly dying. I feel robbed when another player comes in and ninja's on a 1 v 1 and I would not do that to anyone else (it's fair game if he fails though).

1 v 1 fights are too few and far between and is the most rewarding type of combat in game, it gets personal (I can name a few DC players...) but it's one of the few ways in which player skill determines the outcome. The zerg mentality in Cyrodiil drives me mad.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Hell I was killed by a freaking *22K* wrecking blow last night.

Physical damage is off the charts yet what are people clamoring for? Nerf Sorc shields lol.

These LolSnipers need to go play call of duty or something. Players 1-shotting each other is not the way the game should play.

How on earth did you eat a 22k wrecking blow? Cause even stacking weapon damage I come no where near that. Was it from stealth? Or maybe after he blocked a heavy attack?

He interrupted one of my casts(+15% on next physical) and had hundings rage proc from speaking with him.

Keep in mind though that this was through something close to 12,000 armor (VR14 Legendary Reinforced Heavy Chest, Boots and Shield and 5 VR14 Legendary Light armor) which means his base damage was somewhere in the neighborhood of 27K.

Physical damage is just off the charts.

I can cope with all of that though, but the Health desync makes me rage hard.

k2blader

Soarin' wrote: »

I see the regular sorc wail squad has arrived at this thread already after detouring from the "shield QQ" threads.

Pretty sure folks commenting do not all have sorc mains. Also nowhere has anyone whined himself to tears that lethal arrow should be nerfed or removed, etc. unlike the regular needs-to-L2P-vs-sorc wail squad.

Generally I agree with folks commenting on the "lameness" of the gank playstyle. But, it's just a part of the game and I've learned to deal with it. The real problem imo is folks who use exploitive macros. Any gankers who *don't* do that, couldn't care less if they keep having fun crouching on that rock shooting that lil bow and not actually PvPing. :-)

Ezareth

That kittysoftpaws fellow is a freaking Ninja. I don't think I've ever actually seen him anywhere other than my death recap / =

cozmon3c_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

That kittysoftpaws fellow is a freaking Ninja. I don't think I've ever actually seen him anywhere other than my death recap / =

yeah, i dont ever remember running into her on the battlefield, though i did get one shot by her lol.

The_Death_Princess

As a pro, the tips here are helpful. Some more.

1. Always be prepared to react immediately off the first shot. That means use a purge of some form, followed by immediate heal.
2. Crazy Ivans if your in a high risk area
3. Get a reputation. This means wear the same unique gear, learn to survive the first attack, turn and close on them and kill them. In my guild I am the scout. Part of this means exposing these fools, and making them pay. Thus line 3. Now if you have light armor this is probably harder, but I do it with medium. Learn to do this and they will leave you alone. I have stood on horseback in the middle of open fields when a known ganker is around and they wont touch me even though my guild is hiding.

All that said, I will say that don't confuse the 3 forms. No one really complains (rightly) about the Snipe or the Focused Aim. I do think the champion point system had made the poison effect a little strong. Oh that reminds me, if you are not running at least a legendary VR14 poison resist enchant in PvP, you are wrong (two main damages is fire and poison).

ZOS since the focused aim is a upfront damage unit with little extra buffing, and the poison line is so buff (and stackable) plentiful, you should really think of making this a choice of DOT through poison (no initial high impact) or the high impact only Focused aim morph.

Vis

I hate snipe spam but understand its part of the game. Only two fixes I want from bows:

-Fix the health desync bug
-You should not be able to go back to stealth after using snipe (unless you use a pot or cloak)

Bogdan_Kobzar

Item: the nuclear tipped arrows are coming from characters of a specific faction, the same faction that has been ruling/controlling all the campaigns.
The simple solution is to delete all your old faction characters and create new characters of that faction that has all the advantages. <sarcasm>
Also, join 'those' guilds to learn how to 'maximize' your build.<good luck with joining them, they are a very closed group>
Approach this game as if it were a strategic board game, to 'maximize' your build and neutering the really spectacular graphics to no more than stick figures to maximize framerate.
You can't beat them, so join them, it's all about having your player name at the top of the leader board, isn't it? <sarcasm>
It's all about maximizing the game system to develop a character that has the equivalent powers as a Daedric Prince, isn't it? <more sarcasm>
My solution is to stay out of Cyrodiil. It is much more rewarding to me to join with a bunch of guild buddies and do a trial, or Craglorn quest or a vet undaunted pledge. PvP in Cyrodiil will change, people will only tolerate so much aggravation.
But, this is only my opinion, not that I'm an expert or anyone of consequence, i've only been enjoying the realm since 1st beta.

cozmon3c_ESO

Vis wrote: »

I hate snipe spam but understand its part of the game. Only two fixes I want from bows:

-Fix the health desync bug
-You should not be able to go back to stealth after using snipe (unless you use a pot or cloak)

i agree with that

bow desync is like 90% of my deaths, you say listen for the lethal arrow noise, well with the desync it doesnt happen until after you are walking around not able to use anything and then you are all of a suddenly dead. you can see it happen numerous times in my 'Growing Pains' video in the pvp combat section of this forum.

one of the most irritating things about bow right now is that you get hit by lethal arrow and the sniper just goes right back into sneak like he didnt even damage you (not cloak). then he comes and hits you with a second from sneak arrow. its just broken and needs to be fixed. if you damage someone you should not be able to restealth, the game should put you into combat. so many times im looking around to find the sniper and i catch them out of the corner of my eye going right back into sneak even though they almost one shot me.

if these 2 thing were fixed, i would actually be able to react like 50% of the time when it works properly and have a decent fight against these snipers.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Its a sneak attack, they have to be behind you and attack from stealth. This is the risk you take while riding your horse. You can also sneak and avoid being a huge target. Once you get hit you can block and see your target and engage them.

A sneak attack? Maybe the first one. Interesting that the second hit each time did more damage no? The actual position doesn't matter BTW, just that you are unseen.

The_Drexill

Everyone has their thing. If snipers are frustrating you, run 5pc whitestrake.... it will give you the time you need. Never run defenseless unless you're willing to gamble. People sprint back to the fight as fast as possible without thinking, but take your time and keep your guard up and it cripples people like me.


Also, listen carefully. The sfx for lethal plays before the arrow lands, that's when you dodge or block.

Snit

I think every class has counters available to snipe, even if it's just "take the long way around" when riding alone.

Ezareth

The_Drexill wrote: »

Everyone has their thing. If snipers are frustrating you, run 5pc whitestrake.... it will give you the time you need. Never run defenseless unless you're willing to gamble. People sprint back to the fight as fast as possible without thinking, but take your time and keep your guard up and it cripples people like me.


Also, listen carefully. The sfx for lethal plays before the arrow lands, that's when you dodge or block.

Most of us posting here are well aware of how to dodge a snipe etc.

We're talking about a health desync bug where the damage (and sounds) created by snipe don't register until *after* you're dead.

I had a NB Lethal arrow me, poison inject and then from out of stealth start beaming me the other day. I went from full shields to dead in a split second. All of the damage registered the moment he started his beam and I was at 20% health. The damage done by his bow just did not register and I'm not talking about stacking projectile travel times etc. In this case he was literally 10 feet behind me and I'm assuming he hit me with 2 lethal arrows since I had just refreshed my hardened ward and there is no way a single lethal arrow and poison inject can take down my shield and take me to 20% health.

This is a big that needs addressed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno is the combat team aware that health desyncing is occurring again?

Kypho

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

I thought that Lethal Arrow was nerfed in 1.6, but I guess it's not and the damages it cause seems to be in par with the best Ultimates in the game.
I am on a horse with full stamina, and then I see a death recap like in the attached screenshots:


I am VR14 5 medium 2 heavy and it takes a second to shot me?! No fighting chance, and another 5 minutes travel to the battelfield.

Is there really only a two play styles available for PvP right now: shoot from behind and zerg? Sad times...

What? i dont see anything special. crystal fragment hit with same and noone cries?