1.6 one of a kind update for mmo's history

Joejudas

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

This is the first expansion/update i have seen in my mmo gaming history (starting back from ultima online days) that takes away half the stuff you have earned since launch so you can spend close to another year juat to get it back.

This is a huge slap in the face to the community.

A big smoke screen of number changes to confuse ppl as to how much you have taken away.

Changing all of the class and weapon abilities at ONE time when you could not even balance them in the previous 8 months.

The changes made to ultimate are ridiculous. You don't get the buff if you hit anyone with a shield. And with this new system thats everyone but the dead guys.

Chump points (as i will call them) are unrealistic in the time it takes to earn them.

I could go on forever but the fact is if this goes live it will go dead shortly after.

I for one am not grinding for another year just to earn back what i have accomplished. I could handle this if it was further progression but all you have done it take it away amd say here with this new chump system you can earn it back

Added: who wants to bet the cash shop sells enlightenment pots?

Amen brother. I spent two months earning those Sanctum armor sets. Boy did I feel accomplished, special, and happy when I got the 5th piece and made them all gold. Now, poop on a stick. There are crafted and green drop sets that I think will prove better now.

They destroyed the items I earned.

They made a new more important XP system and gave me almost none of the XP I earned in that system.

They changed all my skills so that now all of the knowledge I gained is useless.

They will reset all of my juicy leaderboard times.

From what I can see so far they did not fix the class imbalance that has plagued the game but only made it worse.

I unsubbed. I will be writing a summary post on the gear changes in the next couple of days. I expect that will be my last post.

Im probably on the way out as well.

kevlarto_ESO

Swg cu I went from being able to solo a Rancor to needed a group to kill butterflies overnight. / sigh
Don't think 1.6 is that extreme.

Rescorla_ESO

Joejudas wrote: »

Some folks on here don't get it....we paid 10 months of subs and spent hundreds of hours playing a game...then 1.6 PTS nerfed everything including end game PvE gear

The "some folks on here don't get it" would be you and the OP.

How can the stat redesign be a nerf when it affects every player equally? It's absolutely no different than the stat squish Blizzard did with WoW's WoD expansion except Blizzard reduced everyone's stats.

Joejudas

It's not equal...because a level 1-50 didn't spend months farming the best end game gear i have that they just made useless in 1.6 PTS with nerfs. It's not the same.

McDoogs

It will be a one of a kind release if it proves to be a success...Generally MMO game overhauls are acts of desperation.

Rescorla_ESO

Joejudas wrote: »

It's not equal...because a level 1-50 didn't spend months farming the best end game gear i have that they just made useless in 1.6 PTS with nerfs. It's not the same.

What do you perceive to be "useless" about your gear? If you have best in slot VR14 legendary gear, what makes you think it is no longer the best gear?

eserras7b16_ESO

At almost every WOW expansion, our stuff is just garbage and we have to renew it. In most MMO where a season system is implemented, our stuff is just garbage when the new season starts and we have to renew our stuff. This is quite usual in MMOs. And this not a problem.

Yes but you get new content. Looks like we'll be 5-6 Months without it, just because of the console release. Unacceptable, because the content is there, made.

Observant

I think they shouldn't have changed the values right away, let us see the numbers we're used to first. Let's get a feel for the changes, THEN change the values to shift the decimal place.

All I know is that I'm actually running out of stamina on my Nightblade, and that never used to happen...

eserras7b16_ESO

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

I think it's a good update.
I see many new possibilities about rotations, gears, strats.
It's a balance update, so we have to adapt: there isn't one cookie-cutter build anymore. And I, for one, welcome it

It's a good update, but I think that what many people want is the progress not being given away. They can balance the game but balancing the game doesn't mean nerf players efforts...

e.chiesa73b16_ESO

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

I think it's a good update.
I see many new possibilities about rotations, gears, strats.
It's a balance update, so we have to adapt: there isn't one cookie-cutter build anymore. And I, for one, welcome it

It's a good update, but I think that what many people want is the progress not being given away. They can balance the game but balancing the game doesn't mean nerf players efforts...

I fail to see how they are going to take away anything. My 4 set of legendaries will be legendaries came 1.6.

What it seems to me is that you learnt a rotation, someone told you what gear was the best and once you got it you thought to have beaten the game, before anyone else. And in that you were specials.

I'll tell you something: if you were specials before, you will still be in 1.6. No more no less. You didn't know the game when you started, so it could had been like 1.6 from the start.

If you won't enjoy the 1.6, noone will stop you to unsub, belive me. Your subscription is not really that important for the fate of the game.

And pls, for the love of god, tell us what exactly are those changes that make your toon garbage. Because untill now, I haven't seen one single prove.

Galalin

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Some folks on here don't get it....we paid 10 months of subs and spent hundreds of hours playing a game...then 1.6 PTS nerfed everything including end game PvE gear

The "some folks on here don't get it" would be you and the OP.

How can the stat redesign be a nerf when it affects every player equally? It's absolutely no different than the stat squish Blizzard did with WoW's WoD expansion except Blizzard reduced everyone's stats.

Well according to you i dont get it but let me explain what i dont get for you.

The stat redesign does not effect ppl equally it effects each class and build differently. And just to be extra clear i said it was a smoke screen to cover how much has been taken away... this statement includes abilities, weapons, etc not a direct nerf itself.

Did that WoW expansion have any new content? Hmmm

I am assuming you agree with the rest of my post since you argue only about the stats?

Maybe i still don't get it... what do you think?

Just a little note I am the OP... So ya your right both myself and the OP dont get it

Lionxoft

PvP meta. Damage shields. Insane damage stats. GG. Bye bye.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO

Galalin wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Some folks on here don't get it....we paid 10 months of subs and spent hundreds of hours playing a game...then 1.6 PTS nerfed everything including end game PvE gear

The "some folks on here don't get it" would be you and the OP.

How can the stat redesign be a nerf when it affects every player equally? It's absolutely no different than the stat squish Blizzard did with WoW's WoD expansion except Blizzard reduced everyone's stats.

Well according to you i dont get it but let me explain what i dont get for you.

The stat redesign does not effect ppl equally it effects each class and build differently. And just to be extra clear i said it was a smoke screen to cover how much has been taken away... this statement includes abilities, weapons, etc not a direct nerf itself.

Did that WoW expansion have any new content? Hmmm

I am assuming you agree with the rest of my post since you argue only about the stats?

Maybe i still don't get it... what do you think?

Just a little note I am the OP... So ya your right both myself and the OP dont get it

Can you make few exemples of what has been taken away? With real numbers maybe.
And don't you think that if something is really broken, they will fix it?

trimsic_ESO

Lionxoft wrote: »

PvP meta. Damage shields. Insane damage stats. GG. Bye bye.

This is not what I would call a constructive feedback. It's a bit like if the developpers ' answer were: ok, can I have your stuff?

But I agree with you: the new metagame with the damage shield stack is hideous. Still, it's the first draft version of 1.6; tomorrow we will have a new version. Let's post our feedback and let them fix all the issues we report.

Septimus_Magna

Personally I like these changes so far, I havent played my main because Im on EU and have to wait for the char transfer. The justice system is fun especially when you're waiting or want to do something diverent than killing monsters. The champion system gives all players a long term goal (besides gear) which is needed to keep end game worthwhile. The skill changes and softcap removal are attempts to restore class balance, which is great but it also comes with new challenges. A small inbalance in class skills can be magnified by huge attribute amounts which are possible without the softcap. I always enjoy theorycrafting and min-maxing so changes like this are always a fun challenge for me. I hope the new changes will allow for multiple viable builds for each class so everyone can be competative in pvp and pve.

Berinima

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

I disagree, this is a great update, and they aren't taking anything away from you.

This is probably why the OP is calling it "chump" system. ^^

xaraan

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

I disagree, this is a great update, and they aren't taking anything away from you.

That is just blatantly false.

Don't get me wrong. I can see why you would love the update/changes and disagree on some of the points.

But they have clearly taken a lot away from players. Not even counting the fight we had to go through to get them to not rip vet players off when they rolled out champion points...

Many of the things players perform commonly: block, dodge, cc break -- all take much more stamina than before. This is probably to keep things from getting to crazy once players maxed out bonuses in the CS. Problem here is that any vet player will be able to tell the huge difference and will feel like they are essentially spending the next several months trying to earn points just to get back to the power level they were at prior to 1.6. Same with stuff like losing the CC bonus from heavy armor. Or the potion bonus under Nightblade passives. Some of this stuff isn't even on patch notes.

Then there is the obvious stuff that isn't really open to interpretation. Like a good chunk of health being taken away. Not saying it needs to be changed back, but it was taken away.

Then there is the stuff that falls under the champion system point rollout realm of not being technically "taken" but given to new players easily and making what you did in the past a waste: Look at horses. I have bought I think... 11+ 43K horses to have on different characters. Do I get that money back? No. But noobs will roll in, buy once and have the same horse for every character they have.

Now, I'm not saying it's the end of the world on all these changes. Simply giving examples of why your statement was way off.

As to what I think, I think it needs to fall somewhere in the middle. Maybe some adjustments to stamina cost of those things mentioned, but still giving room to grow. Maybe some sort of compensation for mounts bought, not full price, but something better than what vendors buy them back for.

I also think stuff like the CC reduction and NB passive should be changed to work like it did prior to 1.6, but again, just lower the values a little so when combined with CS it's not too crazy.

In the end, the main problem here is that ZoS isn't too worried about us right now. "Us" as in those that have subbed since launch. Sure, we'll get a token gift or something and they may make some changes to keep us from completely jumping ship. But the way this entire system is designed, it's for new players. It is for all those guys that will be buying the B2P version of the game and leveling up for the first time. They won't notice what they don't have anymore, because they never had it. All ZoS needs to do is make sure the game is balanced between classes, not between what it was and will be. Why do you think they've redone the tutorial and intro areas a dozen times but hardly given us end game content in a years time? Why do you think they don't care about rolling out new content (not changes, changes are not content) since November and going through until after console launch in June? That being said, those new players also won't know what they did or didn't change for them, only the end game vets will see these changes, so finding a middle ground still leaves only one side (vet side) noticing what they've given up. The new side will have 'given up' something in the middle ground as well, but by being new, won't even know what.

The problem is, a lot of those vet players out there right now will not stick around and those guys are the ones testing their game. (Paying to test their game actually) We've already lost a lot of players due to not having new content to do. Some might come back b/c it's free, but they will be coming back to run new dungeons and raids, not to just rebuild their character and then sit there with no content to do. ZoS should also remember, those 'serious' players are the ones talking about the game, testing it in PTS, streaming it for more than the first few weeks after it launches when all the casual streamers move on to the next big game, etc. Not to mention that there will be plenty of 'new' players that will be end game players soon after they start playing. Not everyone takes a year to level a character (not that there is anything wrong with those that do).

And the biggest problem with all of this is that there are ways out there to prep the game for new players, make it good for those new players, while not screwing over your end game players. It's not a choice you have to make and therefor, not a choice that any company wanting customers should be making. Fine the middle ground.

idk

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

I disagree, this is a great update, and they aren't taking anything away from you.

While I don't agree with the OP since he is really just ranting, I would suggest checking out the PTS, especially the vet grouped content before saying they aren't taking anything away from us.

Try Wayrest Sewers for starters. After that give CoA of vet DSA a spin. What is most noticable is how long it takes to aoe adds in boss fights where they spawn. I'd suggest bringing a strong healer as the group will likely take more damage than we are accustomed.

Edit, with that I do see much that I like about this patch. The only aspect I find to be an odd path is making us weaker to make us feel the champion system will make us stronger. My guess is a current VR 14 will be about as equal to a Champion system VR 14 when they get max champion points Meaning we have little or nothing to gain from the champion system.

Avatar1109

OP is competly wrong. If you truly believe your progress has been set back a year then delete your toon. Your game play is based on exploiting systems that are evolving. To be honest I don't know how people are even having fun playing the way the hardcore max/min players are doing things, its not in the spirit of the Elder Scrolls games and frankly makes playing the game for people who are true Elder Scrolls alot less fun. Can't wait for the ps4 version to come out so the real fans of this game can start playing together.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

supernico

Lets be realistic here, Champion System is not a replacement for the Veteran Ranks, but for real itemization that an MMO should have, with real stats, rng, tradeable and the engine of an economy, it's a hopeless try to become a real MMO that probably won't have the success the creators would expect from this system.
What I find outrageous and I don't really understand is why after 1 year you change completely the game basics instead of just adding new content, work on the balance of the classes and what not. Should we expect these changes every now and then?
Personally I don't like 1.6 but then again I haven't tested it much, I'll definitelly play it live but I don't expect much from it.
Also, #freeracechange @ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Galalin

Im not

Avatar1109 wrote: »

OP is competly wrong. If you truly believe your progress has been set back a year then delete your toon. Your game play is based on exploiting systems that are evolving. To be honest I don't know how people are even having fun playing the way the hardcore max/min players are doing things, its not in the spirit of the Elder Scrolls games and frankly makes playing the game for people who are true Elder Scrolls alot less fun. Can't wait for the ps4 version to come out so the real fans of this game can start playing together.

Maturity speaks for itself... so does rationale.... and furthermore reasoning skills.

Added: let me add i welcome all feedback on this topic positive and negative but please keep it objective. We all have opinions i have stated mine... does that make it right? By no means am i saying it is... however it is my opinion.

Spewing personal attacks however is not feedback so please keep the childish personal attacks to yourself

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Berinima

supernico wrote: »

What I find outrageous and I don't really understand is why after 1 year you change completely the game basics instead of just adding new content, work on the balance of the classes and what not.

Let me enlighten you here.

a) Content is very expensive to produce.
b) Stretching out existing content with an endless grind however costs zero money.
c) You can create revenue with either subscriptions but in order to do that you would have to produce content. That cycles back to a).
d) ...or you could just put XP potions in the cash shop.

Avatar1109

Galalin wrote: »

Im not

Avatar1109 wrote: »

OP is competly wrong.If you truly believe your progress has been set back a year then delete your toon. Your game play is based on exploiting systems that are evolving. To be honest I don't know how people are even having fun playing the way the hardcore max/min players are doing things, its not in the spirit of the Elder Scrolls games and frankly makes playing the game for people who are true Elder Scrolls alot less fun. Can't wait for the ps4 version to come out so the real fans of this game can start playing together.

Maturity speaks for itself... so does rationale.... and furthermore reasoning skills.

You don't see me whining. I'm playing this game the way it is intended to be played "as you want". I'm a level 37 NB Khajiit and know that the game mechanics have been stacked against my personal preferences but I still stuck to it because I have faith this game will end up the way it should be, an Elder Scrolls game first and and MMO second. Not some cookie cutter MMO.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Galalin

Avatar1109 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Im not

Avatar1109 wrote: »

OP is competly wrong. If you truly believe your progress has been set back a year then delete your toon. Your game play is based on exploiting systems that are evolving. To be honest I don't know how people are even having fun playing the way the hardcore max/min players are doing things, its not in the spirit of the Elder Scrolls games and frankly makes playing the game for people who are true Elder Scrolls alot less fun. Can't wait for the ps4 version to come out so the real fans of this game can start playing together.

Maturity speaks for itself... so does rationale.... and furthermore reasoning skills.

You don't see me whining. I'm playing this game the way it is intended to be played "as you want". I'm a level 37 NB Khajiit and know that the game mechanics have been stacked against my personal preferences but I still stuck to it because I have faith this game will end up the way it should be, an Elder Scrolls game first and and MMO second. Not some cookie cutter MMO.

Lvl 37 i understand now... you have not invested the time i would think is necessary to form an objective opinion on the subject here. I am glad you enjoy the game and have stuck it out. I too have stuck it out since beta and have a different opinion but thats the beauty of life.... we can agree to disagree

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

NukeAllTheThings

Avatar1109 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Im not

Avatar1109 wrote: »

OP is competly wrong. Troll alert. If you truly believe your progress has been set back a year then delete your toon. Your game play is based on exploiting systems that are evolving. To be honest I don't know how people are even having fun playing the way the hardcore max/min players are doing things, its not in the spirit of the Elder Scrolls games and frankly makes playing the game for people who are true Elder Scrolls alot less fun. Can't wait for the ps4 version to come out so the real fans of this game can start playing together. Again, if you agree with the OP delete your toons and go back to Wow or whatever lame game you came from.

Maturity speaks for itself... so does rationale.... and furthermore reasoning skills.

You don't see me whining. I'm playing this game the way it is intended to be played "as you want". I'm a level 37 NB Khajiit and know that the game mechanics have been stacked against my personal preferences but I still stuck to it because I have faith this game will end up the way it should be, an Elder Scrolls game first and and MMO second. Not some cookie cutter MMO.

So you have been here less than a month and don't have a vet character much less a VR14?

Avatar1109

Galalin wrote: »

Im not

Avatar1109 wrote: »

OP is competly wrong. If you truly believe your progress has been set back a year then delete your toon. Your game play is based on exploiting systems that are evolving. To be honest I don't know how people are even having fun playing the way the hardcore max/min players are doing things, its not in the spirit of

Added: let me add i welcome all feedback on this topic positive and negative but please keep it objective. We all have opinions i have stated mine... does that make it right? By no means am i saying it is... however it is my opinion.

Spewing personal attacks however is not feedback so please keep the childish personal attacks to yourself

My intention was not to attack you but to defend TES. I understand you and the people who agree with you feel cheated because this game is being worked towards something you are not used to playing. Games like Ultima Underworld are what got me into games like TES. Try having more fun playing this game for what it has to offer and spend less time trying to max your charactor out and you might have a more enjoyable time.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Avatar1109

So you have been here less than a month and don't have a vet character much less a VR14?
[/quote]

I've been with this game since the beta however I am a casual player who has a full time job so forgive me if I'm not all maxed out like some people. I've still invested a bunch of time into the game and am increasingly more happy with how this game is turning out. Again I'm not sure PC players are the true core base this game was ever intended to have.

Avatar1109

Also I guess I'm still learning how to quote lol

Panda244

Avatar1109 wrote: »

Also I guess I'm still learning how to quote lol

[-quote="Name"][/-quote]

Just remove the bolded dashes

Avatar1109

@ZOS_UlyssesW thank you for fixing my post up! I like your name, hopefully you had something to do with the charactor of the same name from Fallout NV