So, how about that Radiant Destruction then...

Manoekin

Sharee wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Fought a templar last night who used this on me at least 3 times. Shield charged him each time & put an end to it. Aside from the fact that it currently ignore LOS, I don't see what people are complaining about.

If my nightblade got a spell called 'finger of death' that would simply kill you everytime regardless of anything else, would you be okay with it as long as it is a 3 second channel that you can interrupt?

Because that's what i'm hearing a lot in this thread. "It is okay because you can just interrupt it!"

But it doesn't kill you everytime regardless of anything else, so what was your point again?

My point is that "you can just interrupt it" does not make an obviously overpowered ability (like my hypothetical finger of death) any less overpowered.

Thus if you want to ague that radiant destruction is not overpowered, use a different reasoning.

You see, you're comparing two completely different abilities and that's not how it works.

"Finger of death" is example of a (theoretical) obviously overpowered ability. Would making it interruptable make it not overpowered? No.

Therefore, if you want to convince someone who thinks that radiant destruction is overpowered, that it in fact is not, you will have to do better than just say "but it can be interrupted", for the reason above.

I don't know how much clearer i could explain this point.

You don't seem to understand that it IS an okay explanation because the ability ISN'T "Finger of Death". That is why your argument is ***. The abilities you want to compare aren't on the same level. Using your comparison I could call an ability that does 100 damage over a 3 second channel overpowered because I die to it if I don't interrupt it while I'm at 100 or less health.

Radiant Oppression may not be completely balanced (I'd agree with lowering the execute bonus slightly to maybe start at 40%), but it is far from overpowered.

Sharee

Poxheart wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

I don't know how much clearer i could explain this point.

People have pointed out other ways in which you can overcome the damage from this ability, but you seem to have ignored them.

My argument is that "it can be interrupted" should not be used as the reasoning why a supposedly overpowered ability is not overpowered.

Yes, there are other ways/reasonings to argue why it is not overpowered, and those are what people should use.

Sharee

Tankqull wrote: »

the problem you do not realize is that every ability in this game does comparable and executioner and other channeld abilities do even more dmg than this ability over its 3 sec casting time.
how in anybodies sane mind can that be overpowered?

It does under circumstances more damage than soulstrike, and that's an ultimate.

From a fresh templar template:

Unmorphed soulstrike: 3576
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 100% health opponent: 1548
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 50% health opponent: 3096
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 40% health opponent: 4644
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 30% health opponent: 6192

If we compared morphed versions, it would be even worse, as RD increased by 40% would outdamage SA even against 50% HP opponent, and not be very far behind even against a full health one (that's why you see templars currently spamming it on everything that moves, low HP or not)

RinaldoGandolphi

As long as they fix the LOS bug ill have no probe with it. I never stand in one place anyways, and ill just simply LOS the skill or Shard/Crushing shock them while their vulnerable in a channel behind my hardened ward + harness magicka stack. And get magic back as a bonus

Bouvin

Subtomik wrote: »

Ok, delay on cast, has to be channeled, no stun, no heal debuff, no snare.

Yes it is bugged going through Walls and that needs to be fixed ASAP, but how in gods name is it broken in a damage sense lol.

I really think people are just not realizing that with instant backlash we will be able to pump out good burst dps.

When I get within execute range of sorcs, and nb's I react accordingly.

Some bad made an AD temp named radiant destruction and he tried to spam it to absolutely no effect. I have not had it KB me once on the PTS, meanwhile im still getting snipe spammed constantly.

When the other 3 classes get a channeled ability that can 1 shot most players, you can have an execute.

Sound fair?

While testing, Radiant has been hitting for 20k+.

Templars and Sorcerer are by far the most powerful classes on test right now, so I don't understand the complaining.

Bouvin

Tankqull wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

For the Templars trying to defend it, please explain my obvious L2P issue re: Radiant Destruction. I'd love to have the perfect counter for this situation.

rupt him with either bash or CS/VA = up to 5sec of cc on him and tons of dmg

That's great for dueling.

Not quite so great in larger scale pvp.

It's like saying "Just roll out of the snipe".

Bouvin

kijima wrote: »

Come on guys, own up. It's OP as hell and you know it.

But they want to be the FOTM so they aren't going to own up. They want this to get into live.

Bouvin

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Well im seeing people trying to dodge roll or run out of range when I cast it. Probably same people come here and ask for nerf.
You just need to adapt and do some proper counter.

Sweet. Why not just give all classes an ability that does 22k damage then?

Huntler

Bouvin wrote: »

Subtomik wrote: »

Ok, delay on cast, has to be channeled, no stun, no heal debuff, no snare.

Yes it is bugged going through Walls and that needs to be fixed ASAP, but how in gods name is it broken in a damage sense lol.

I really think people are just not realizing that with instant backlash we will be able to pump out good burst dps.

When I get within execute range of sorcs, and nb's I react accordingly.

Some bad made an AD temp named radiant destruction and he tried to spam it to absolutely no effect. I have not had it KB me once on the PTS, meanwhile im still getting snipe spammed constantly.

When the other 3 classes get a channeled ability that can 1 shot most players, you can have an execute.

Sound fair?

While testing, Radiant has been hitting for 20k+.

Templars and Sorcerer are by far the most powerful classes on test right now, so I don't understand the complaining.

God you're thick.... Yes a radiant in the right circumstance can do 20k over 3 seconds. The total time from using it to finish casting is something aroudn 3.7 seconds. Now, lets compare... there are links to single lethal arrows hitting for more than 20k peppering the forums right now.... so.... apparnently lethal arrow is more OP than radiant since its got less cast time and a heal debuff....

Or compare that 20k damage in ideal circumstances to maybe an ideal scenario with 3 impales (almost 4, tested it this morning)? They damage is the same. How some of the people in this thread are calculating damage is ludicrous. They see 20k damage on their death recap and don't realize thats cumulative and start comparing it to a single use of other instant cast abilities or 1 letah arrow... in 3.7 secconds thats 3 lethal arrows... which is a helluva lot more than 20k damage on PTS right now. Even in bad circumstances thats 30k+ damage with 3 lethal arrows right now.



As for the other guy saying being interruptable isn't an argument against why something isn't overpowered, yes that is exactly what it is. Sure there are other reasons it is not overpowered, but it is still something to consider because a good player will interrupt making this ability very hard to get off on decent players who are either in bash range or run interrupts (basically everyone and their mother). This ability, in time, as people learn it is worth interrupting will literally get interrupted all the time. Given its damage bonus stems from both having to be channeled (which is interruptable) have max magicka (lol when is that ever true) and has a delay on using it makes it easily balanced. As many have stated the los issue will be fixed. But its laughable to see people here who used the exact same "just interrupt" excuse or "just dodge excuse" on lethal arrow complainers now saying well just interrupt isn't a good excuse for an ability that does LESS DPS than lethal arrow spam.



Just remember guys, you can get almost 4 impales off in the time it takes to fully cast radiant, you can get 3 lethal arrows and partially casted the 4 off in the time it takes to fully cast radiant, you can cast 3 wrecking blows in the time it takes to fully cast radiant....

Compare the damages and laugh, because, for example, lethal arrow is still better (and is a heal debuff to boot). Coupled with it being an ability that makes the caster super vulnerable, slow to actually react and put the damage up, and interruptable. Its the only execute in the game now that you can actually completely avoid as long as you aren't a 1 button mashing scrub.

themizario

Radiant Light will be nerfed. Nuff said

david.haypreub18_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

Also to directly address DKs. The DK has not been OP for quite some time. After eight nerfs the class was completely balanced.

I stopped reading right there. Sorry, no.

You've made some good posts in the past and I like much of what you've said in them, but you've lost all grip on reality here. This post is as bad as your recent one about the Standard nerf, in which you claimed that Standard was now the highest cost class ultimate in the game at 250 (forgetting entirely that the Templar Nova is 300, and in some ways inferior to Standard). That really just shows how little you appreciate how good DKs have had it for the last 10 months.

Huntler

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Also to directly address DKs. The DK has not been OP for quite some time. After eight nerfs the class was completely balanced.

(forgetting entirely that the Templar Nova is 300, and in some ways inferior to Standard).

Lol in some ways? Nova is garbage compared to standard ... hell in 1.6 Nova is garbage compared to Meteor.... and its costs ~110 extra ultimate

sKorcheD

How bout dem destro staffs hitting for 8-16k light attacks no crit.

sKorcheD

Wow just discovered if you tab target a player, possible to recast radiant destruction on a player over and over without ever even seeing the player once tab targetted. This is PvP breaking ZoS Please address in next incremental patch, left a /feedback as well but who knows where that ends up.(Blazing shield bug is a good example)

kijima

Through walls, through doors. Radiant Destruction can do anything!

booksmcread

kijima wrote: »

Through walls, through doors...

It's like the Spanish Inquisition.

Joy_Division

@ Rylana -

I know who you are and I know you play all classes in all factions. So do I. Just because you play all classes doesn't make you any less biased than the posters you berate who disagree with your opinions about the Dragonknight. You claim the DK in 1.5 finally right and balanced, but the fact of the matter is that most people do not. So you have it backwards: it is NOT the case that "for the vast majority of the playerbase its been a walking frustration watching the class get nerfed at every opportunity." It is for the vast majority of the playerbase it has been a walking frustration that Zenimax has allowed DKs to dominate PvP.

Now whether their subjective opinions - like yours - are accurate, well that's a topic for another discussion. What I was simply pointing out was that when people express their opinions about the DK and claim the class is unbalanced and harmful to the game, you mock them and call them "morons doing all they could to force the devs to nerf dks so that literally anything can kill them from anywhere." So they are all biased but someone you are not. Please...

Kypho

It's damage is accidently multipled by 10 LoL

Cody

DKs are not balanced, lets get that said and done before it turns into a 3 page argument

danno8

Sharee wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

the problem you do not realize is that every ability in this game does comparable and executioner and other channeld abilities do even more dmg than this ability over its 3 sec casting time.
how in anybodies sane mind can that be overpowered?

It does under circumstances more damage than soulstrike, and that's an ultimate.

From a fresh templar template:

Unmorphed soulstrike: 3576
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 100% health opponent: 1548
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 50% health opponent: 3096
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 40% health opponent: 4644
Unmorphed radiant destruction against a 30% health opponent: 6192

If we compared morphed versions, it would be even worse, as RD increased by 40% would outdamage SA even against 50% HP opponent, and not be very far behind even against a full health one (that's why you see templars currently spamming it on everything that moves, low HP or not)

So I went ahead and made 2 fresh PTS characters. A NB and a Templar. Equipped the Light Aether set provided + Jewelry and conducted some tests.

Radiant Destruction: 6258 over 3.5 seconds
-DPS spamming ability on VR10 zombie = ~2000-2100

-Left with 30-40% magicka

Assassins Blade : 1420 damage
-DPS spamming ability on VR10 Zombie = 1300 (run out of magicka)

-DPS spamming ability with light attack weave = 1900-2000 (weaving means no blockcasting so similar vulnerability to the Templar case)

-Left with 30-40% magicka


The two skills are comparable in the amount of damage they do. But what is clear is that Radiant Destruction is far more efficient to spam in the non-execute range, making it somewhat desirable for spamming.

If I were to change things I would increase the cost of Radiant Destruction outside of the execute range to limit it's usefulness.

Also fix the "through walls" bug.

kijima

booksmcread wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

Through walls, through doors...

It's like the Spanish Inquisition.

firewatch

Rylana wrote: »

Every thread I have seen on this issue is templars defending the skill vs everyone else calling it OP.


1. People will quit pvp, and of course this is not a good thing. People are tired of abuse of broken/OP stuff.
2. People will all roll the exact same templar spec and diversity out the window again.

How many times do we have to repeat the past?

#2 is already happening. I got hit with Radiant Destruction by 5 AD at once last night. Everywhere I went i got hit with it. Every time I died, I got hit with it. It goes through keep walls and has unlimited range once its on you. I saw a sorc bolt escape 75-100 meters away from a keep and it was still on him. I was not able to successfully interrupt it once. I'm afraid it won't be long before PvP is mostly Templar zergs spamming blazing shield and RD.

ZOS_ShannonM

Greetings everyone,
We are closing this thread because there is already a thread about this issue. We appreciate all feedback, and would like to consolidate it in one place for our Developers. As always we appreciate all feedback, good and bad, but ask that you keep your posts constructive, and on topic.
Thank you for understanding.