Heavy armor is so OP in 1.6

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Light armor should give spell resist. and heavy should give resist to physical attks. I don't know why they would make your armor ratting and you spell resist the same. Heavy needed to be fixed but the spell resist doesn't make sense to me.

Common sense, what would protect you more in a forest fire, you tell me?

a. cloth tent?
b. metal bunker?

The same holds true for armor, metal has a higher natural resist to elements then cloth.

xaraan

I think Heavy Armor is just where it needs to be now. It's tanky. You still have resource issues if you try to dps with heavy. You need to switch to light or medium to take advantage of doing the best dps. I don't think people standing in bath robes should get much protection - that comes from their ability to do magic - so stack shields, heal, etc. Now, I do think they could increase the spell penetration for light armor a bit, they nerfed it a while back, but now that things have changed it could go back up.

Apoxsee

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but why wouldn't light armor give the greatest spell resist and lowest physical mitigation, medium armor give an even 50/50 split of the values and heavy give the greatest physical split and the lowest spell resist?

After that you give passives that give the armor type its individual flare for spell enhancements (light), stamina enhancements (medium), and tankiness, if there is such a word, for heavy.

xaraan

Apoxsee wrote: »

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but why wouldn't light armor give the greatest spell resist and lowest physical mitigation, medium armor give an even 50/50 split of the values and heavy give the greatest physical split and the lowest spell resist?

After that you give passives that give the armor type its individual flare for spell enhancements (light), stamina enhancements (medium), and tankiness, if there is such a word, for heavy.

Probably b/c of a combination of a lot of spells being physical damage in nature (aside from a few effects like cripple or something), so armor should still provide more protection than cloth. (If one wants to use the magic excuse for why it should do more, then yea - cast a shield, poof you got magical protection).

And b/c then that gives an advantage to cloth armor for being both the best at one type of tankiness and at a type of DPS and leaves heavy armor for only one style of tankiness, making it worthless against magical damage and not getting any benefits to resource management or dps.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

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Sir, you have not enough experience in competitive PVP if you think that raw passive mitigation is enough to be called OP.

Heavy is still by far the worst armor of all, simply because without cooldown, character power and even survivability is defined by your resources and Heavy has close to none but needs it the most, being supposed to be used for front line play.

Heavy PVP in the frontline suffers from 10 times more CCs, Roots and Slows but has 10 times less (Stamina) resources to break out of it. Heavy has no passive to support its intended playstyle in first line (apart from "Break Free").

At the same time Medium is 3/4 mitigation of Heavy and has much much better resource management (cost reduction and regen), much better damage (crits), and much better mobility (with roll dodge which is at the same time the best damage avoidance mechanic in the game).

It is really hard to loose a duel against a Heavy armor user (especially Melee, Stamina) if you know how CC works. In fact, in cannot see that arriving with the current game design between equally skilled players.
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i agree. i think you illustrate a huge problem perfectly. they brought the passives of medium up with light but medium has 2/3 more armor= stronger... dont give me the melee bild jargon, bow users have biggest distance and use medium, then when you close with them the have 2/3 more armor than light useres. Heavy is still majorly lacking because you have almost as much armor in medium and much better passives for damage and sustain. unless your tanking pve its seems like there is still no reason to go full heavy. i think they should at least test the balance of light 1/4 medium 1/2 and/or light 1/3 medium 2/3

firewatch

danno816_ESO wrote: »

On the PTS I went and made a heavy armour version of the seducer/magnus combo that my Templar currently has a light version of. All the same magicka enchants, and all passives in both lines. I entered PvP.

I run out of magicka super fast compared to light, so I end up standing there with no resources just taking damage until I die.

Blazing Shield
Heavy
cost : 2935 casts (in combat): 5

Light
cost: 2332 casts (in combat): 9

4 more casts is an increase of 80% and makes a huge difference in sustainable DPS.

Vampires Bane
Heavy 15 casts (in combat)
light 27 casts (in combat)

Again an increase of 80%.

There is a huge difference in sustainable DPS, not to mention availability of utility and other useful spells.

OP, I don't know how you have come to your conclusion but clearly for DPS setups light armour (or medium for more stamina based builds) is the way to go.

Thank you for this. I wish more people would take the thoughtful and practical approach you did to this topic.

Xjcon

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Light armor should give spell resist. and heavy should give resist to physical attks. I don't know why they would make your armor ratting and you spell resist the same. Heavy needed to be fixed but the spell resist doesn't make sense to me.

Common sense, what would protect you more in a forest fire, you tell me?

a. cloth tent?
b. metal bunker?

The same holds true for armor, metal has a higher natural resist to elements then cloth.

Neither. The metal bunker would cook you like a potato.....

Lirkin

I agree that heavy armor should give better protection from weapon damage than other armor. Magic protection has nothing to do with the armor type for damage. I think that magic protection should be best in light armor myself.

One thing though is that I keep seeing post using logic like a bath robe shouldn't give you much protection but in a game with magic our normal logic breaks down. Magic doesn't go by normal rules. It doesn't matter what the armor is made of it but what it's magic properties are. I've always been a little disappointed in the options for enhancing armor in the game.

Also I agree that each armor type should have its disadvantages and advantages to make them all desirable in different situations.

This balance is up to the game designers to decide assuming they try to make it fun for everyone.

NiobiuMmm

I think its so normal by the way you must not fight alone.

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

Xjcon wrote: »

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

Valen_Byte wrote: »

Light armor should give spell resist. and heavy should give resist to physical attks. I don't know why they would make your armor ratting and you spell resist the same. Heavy needed to be fixed but the spell resist doesn't make sense to me.

Common sense, what would protect you more in a forest fire, you tell me?

a. cloth tent?
b. metal bunker?

The same holds true for armor, metal has a higher natural resist to elements then cloth.

Neither. The metal bunker would cook you like a potato.....

Yes but what where would you last longer in? Sure over time your dead in both but in the tent you got maybe 30 seconds before your up in flames and a good hour before you roast in the metal bunker

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO

c00lmon wrote: »

I agree that heavy armor should give better protection from weapon damage than other armor. Magic protection has nothing to do with the armor type for damage. I think that magic protection should be best in light armor myself.

One thing though is that I keep seeing post using logic like a bath robe shouldn't give you much protection but in a game with magic our normal logic breaks down. Magic doesn't go by normal rules. It doesn't matter what the armor is made of it but what it's magic properties are. I've always been a little disappointed in the options for enhancing armor in the game.

Also I agree that each armor type should have its disadvantages and advantages to make them all desirable in different situations.

This balance is up to the game designers to decide assuming they try to make it fun for everyone.

yes but where in the game does it say the light armor is magical? the armor in the game, light, medium, heavy all are without any magical properties involved, all the magical proeperties involved are by the caster itself, the armor gives none, so following natural law metal should withstand better against elemental damage lightning, fire, frost, and so on.

Nightreaver

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

yes but where in the game does it say the light armor is magical?

In the armor ability descriptions.
Every armor type has one ability that requires either Magicka or Stamina to cast.
Every armor type has 5 passives that can hardly be considered normal attributes of non-magical armor.

If armor isn't magical then neither are weapons.

In which case what would do more damage?
A Bolt of Lightning? A Ball of Fire? A Meteor?
Or a pointy stick?

Leeric

Ahhh they really just *** all over the sorcerer class continuously so....welcome to ESO.

Leeric

t.claudio.usnub18_ESO wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

I agree that heavy armor should give better protection from weapon damage than other armor. Magic protection has nothing to do with the armor type for damage. I think that magic protection should be best in light armor myself.

One thing though is that I keep seeing post using logic like a bath robe shouldn't give you much protection but in a game with magic our normal logic breaks down. Magic doesn't go by normal rules. It doesn't matter what the armor is made of it but what it's magic properties are. I've always been a little disappointed in the options for enhancing armor in the game.

Also I agree that each armor type should have its disadvantages and advantages to make them all desirable in different situations.

This balance is up to the game designers to decide assuming they try to make it fun for everyone.

yes but where in the game does it say the light armor is magical? the armor in the game, light, medium, heavy all are without any magical properties involved, all the magical proeperties involved are by the caster itself, the armor gives none, so following natural law metal should withstand better against elemental damage lightning, fire, frost, and so on.

What he is saying is, your trying to base the argument off of what is logical in our world. This isn't real life, this is a game, so certain things need to make sense to make it fun, and essentially be balanced so one thing isn't more overpowered over the other.

Arguing what "makes more sense" in a video game literally...makes no sense.

I don't see us pressing a button to breath or multiple buttons to swim, or riding a horse, because that would also "make sense" if you are using the real world as the basis.
This isn't a realism simulator...

Cinbri

I am little confused about about number consiedering spell penetration passive of light armor:
Light Armor (7light) / Heavy Armor(4 heavy 3 light): spell damage: 1163:
Max Magicka: 19700 / 20007
Archer:
Puncturing sweep damage: 1135 / 1159
Radiant Oppression first tick: 1545 / 1580
Crushing Shock: 2618 / 2638
Mage:
Puncturing sweep damage: 1154 / 1159
Radiant Oppression first tick: 1084 / 1580

Fire Atro:
Radiant Oppression DPS: 5549.64 / 6014.84

Light 7 parts / 5 Heavy 2 Light:
Wraith: Puncturing Sweep: 1171 / 1192

---

Fos some reason 4 heavy 3 light without 4736 spell penetration of light armor passive but with 307 more mana dealing more damage than 7 light with 4736 spell penetration passive. I am confused a little but

darkrozes_rob16_ESO

Dragath wrote: »

why should bathrobes give you spell resist?
new system is much better.
light armor should have its bonus in mana reg and spell cost, and it does.

Since FOREVA! Light armor was good vs spells, medium somewhere between em, and heavy good vs physical but not spells. Since Metals are good electricity/magic conductors.

Alcast

People have to learn to wear more heavy armor in PvP. Otherwise bb when a jesus beam hits you in da face.
Or people with Light armor should learn to not be up front and charge the enemy LoL.

Sandmanninja

I welcome the change to armor.
It's not that Heavy is OP - it's that leather is half as tough as plate, and cloth a quarter a tough as plate.
In other words, it's more logical now.

I was sick of seeing CLOTH TANKS wading into a mob of monsters and walking out unscathed.

This makes sense now.

NOTE: If I equip 5 cloth, 1 leather and 1 plate, my resource pool goes up by 50%!


ARMOR:
all cloth: 3389
cloth and 1 leather: 4412
cloth and 1 leather & 1 plate: 5102


MAGICKA REGEN:
all cloth: 1551
cloth and 1 leather: 1498
cloth and 1 leather & 1 plate: 1297


MAX MAGICKA:
all cloth: 14193
cloth and 1 leather: 14179
cloth and 1 leather & 1 plate: 14192

Skjoldur

Dracane wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

I do not understand why heavy armor also gives you the most amount of spell resist. The change is completely nonsensical.

It does not make sense in my opinion. Heavy armor should give plenty of armor, but light armor should give plenty of magic resistance. But however. I am not mad, that heavy armor has op resistances now.

I am sad, that light armor gives you as good as nothing.

Okay, and how does light armor giving more spell resistance make more sense? I am totally with you, that something has to be changed, but in my opinion it should be the offensive magic capabilities when wearing light.

Morshire

I want to first admit that I have barely had time to really test the armor change of 1.6, but from what I have found, things seem more balanced. I was running in 7 LA pre-1.6 and needed no shields or anything when running Spellscar. I finally got some time in last night and I found that I could still do it. It was a bit rougher on damage dealt (obviously not armor related) and I could not get by without Blazing Shield. I still did it though. I had to change the manner in which I defended myself, but still a stand alone. The LA, IMO, acts like what I personally would expect from a dress (Being funny ) My defense was now dependent upon magical protection and magical self heals. (To me, this is the role of a magic user) while when I switched to HA, I no longer needed the added magical protection and could focus on taunts and defense. I stood better with HA, obviously. Pre-1.6, when I was in HA, I still relied on Immovable and Blazing Shield, which meant 1-2 less slots for taunts, etc. My experience shows the swap in what is required for each armor type. Yes HA got a boost, much needed in my opinion. But, matching my skills with my armor type yielded a solid stand alone character, just like pre-1.6

I intend to work more on this, as Spellscar is just a quick check. Pledges and the like will give me a better idea. But for now, I think that ZOS might have actually done a decent job attempting to balance the armors. It isn't perfect, but me pulling mobs in 7 LA, without any added magical protection, and doing better than people in MA/HA didn't seems right either.

Teridaxus

I think this thread is very revelant right now based on the things which i saw on pts.

I hope you guys are happy.

Dracane

Woa why are people still commenting on this ? this is totally outdated and not relevant.
And I'm saying this as the creator of this thread. Just delete it already or ignore it at least.

RedTalon

Heavy armor now makes perfect sense and will hopefully continue to do so, also this.

Molag_Crow

I'm actually glad! I wear 5 light, 2 heavy. I've always wanted to wear full Heavy though, since it is just cool-looking and such, but like you said.. what will be the benefit of light? it doesn't matter, anyway -- I'll still heal in full Light when it comes to PvE especially, I guess...

AngryNord

Where did the 'LoL' button go??

SeptimusDova

Wearing no armor should give you a speed buff called Streak !!

Gilvoth

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Wearing no armor should give you a speed buff called Streak !!

Paradox

The dead rise.

F7sus4

Nestor wrote: »

Heavy Armor should give the most protection.

Yes, against Physical attacks. No logic on it providing Spell Resistance, which should be Light Armor's "special trait".

Sharee

F7sus4 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Heavy Armor should give the most protection.

Yes, against Physical attacks. No logic on it providing Spell Resistance, which should be Light Armor's "special trait".

There also is no logic with both light and heavy providing the most protection(against different sources), but only light providing high offense as well.