Heavy armor is so OP in 1.6

Ninnghizhidda

In a few words: about freaking time. After almost 9 months of live ESO and lots more before during Betas.

Perhaps, it isn't really perfect yet and further adjustments could be done, but it feels like a bold step towards changing the mockery that Heavy Armour was.

Perhaps now at last Heavy Armour users will feel more like Iron Man and less Tin Man, the laughable but adorable clowns of the circus they were before.

Francescolg

Since release you were able to get to armor and magic resistances cap with LIGHT armor, why should this change now?
TE clearly does not know that in PvP most light armor wearers have armor and magic resistances on cap

So this point is totally neglactable..

trimsic_ESO

The buff to heavy armor had to be done. Now we have the choice : either be a class canon with a light armor, or be a tank with a heavy armor. And no more a tank canon with a light armor prior to 1.6. This change is one of the best decisions they made in 1.6, clearly.

goldnugget

Francescolg wrote: »

Since release you were able to get to armor and magic resistances cap with LIGHT armor, why should this change now?
TE clearly does not know that in PvP most light armor wearers have armor and magic resistances on cap

So this point is totally neglactable..

cap? those are gone now

Spiritreaver_ESO

Francescolg wrote: »

Since release you were able to get to armor and magic resistances cap with LIGHT armor, why should this change now?
TE clearly does not know that in PvP most light armor wearers have armor and magic resistances on cap

So this point is totally neglactable..

I don't want to start a whole thing about hard/soft caps and the like, but didn't ZoS say that one of the changes to are was that diminishing returns were shown the door? And has anyone found what ANY of the new DEF caps are?

Just saying, might be a bit earlier to call stuff negligible.

Sharee

Bouvin wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

It's not OP, it's common sense. If someone is trying to kill you with a given weapon or skill, which is going to protect you more? Full plate armor, or a bathrobe? Working as it should...,

Where are the heavy penalties to Dodge Roll, Movement Speed, and Sprint Cost for heavy armor users then?

Imagine someone wearing a dress trying to do a dodge roll. He would most likely get all entangled in the loose clothing. Same with sprinting.

Point being, dodge rolling and sprinting should be easy for medium armor users, and hard for both heavy and light armor users (albeit for different reasons).

Sure, there are no 'penalties' for light and heavy for these activities, but there is a bonus for medium. And relatively speaking, giving medium a bonus and leaving the other 2 alone is pretty much the same as leaving medium alone and giving the other 2 a penalty. So, there ar the penalties you were looking for.

Digiman

I don't understand why they didn't more spell damage and crit to light armor. At the moment it seems everyone in PvP will be running heavy armor.

The guy incharge of the armor skill line needs to get taken off. He is obviously inept. Many have suggest making the spell penetration negate heavy armor spell resist while others wanted each piece of light armor to increase spell damage and power.

Right now the only thing light armor had Heavy armor was the same amount armor it had. Don't think we will see any cloth casters come 1.6 and its the guy incharge of re-designing the armor skill lines.

Orchish

Everyone running in Heavy? have you even played on the PTS? right now the vast majority are still in light armour with a few in medium and only me in heavy. Seriously i honestly haven't noticed a change at all in terms of more people using heavy armour, the dress still seems to be the favourite. At least on the PTS.

Lynx7386

It's amazing how all the people crying about the heavy armor buffs conveniently forget to bring into the discussion the fact that light armor has 28% higher magicka regeneration, 21% lower magicka costs, 10% more spell crit, and higher spell penetration than heavy armor will ever be able to get.

It's all about give and take. Heavy armor takes less damage now, yes, but they still cannot sustain casting as long as someone in light armor. If you play your character right, a light armor caster should be able to outlast a heavy armor tank simply because you've got better resource management.

Sharee

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's amazing how all the people crying about the heavy armor buffs conveniently forget to bring into the discussion the fact that light armor has 28% higher magicka regeneration, 21% lower magicka costs, 10% more spell crit, and higher spell penetration than heavy armor will ever be able to get.

It's all about give and take. Heavy armor takes less damage now, yes, but they still cannot sustain casting as long as someone in light armor. If you play your character right, a light armor caster should be able to outlast a heavy armor tank simply because you've got better resource management.

I agree, just a side note - the hard caps for mitigation haven't changed. Heavy armor does not take less damage now, only light takes more.

Scratch that, its only true for physical - magical defense in heavy got indeed boosted.

Lynx7386

Nobody was reaching the hardcap before as far as I know, and ZOS said that even after the 1.6 changes it'd take full heavy armor, a shield, enchants, and buffs to reach the 50% mitigation hardcap.

Sharee

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Nobody was reaching the hardcap before as far as I know, and ZOS said that even after the 1.6 changes it'd take full heavy armor, a shield, enchants, and buffs to reach the 50% mitigation hardcap.

Yea, but (for physical damage mitigation) heavy armor did not get any better than it was in 1.5.

I only mentioned the hard caps in case someone thinks that removing softcaps allows heavy to reach more mitigation on PTS than on live. It doesn't.

Lynx7386

I dont think physical resistance was ever the problem, at least for tanks. It's the spell damage that kills you.

Sharee

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I dont think physical resistance was ever the problem, at least for tanks. It's the spell damage that kills you.

Yea that's why i edited the previous post.

Sneak_Thief

Even with my 5pc heavy and 2 light, my spell resist is absolutely no where near those figures you have.

Nacario

GZ on all lol's OP, well earned.

People need to get their patch 1.5.8 mindset out when it comes to combat/meta. No more hybrid play, now more role specialization, which is a great change of phase considering our gameplay the last 8 9 months, where light armor had its glory.

Personally I feel good that I dont have to go the same tedious route when it comes to gearing, where LA can reach most stat caps and be effective in multiple roles.

TheShadowScout

...all I read here is stuff I really approve of! Heavy armor finally keeping its wearer proteced? Bathrobed people no longer capable of wading into a melee and out the other side without much of a scratch? What's not to like???

If anything, heavy armor might benefit from some drawbacks to reflect the realistic drawbacks of wearing a lot of hard, heavy pieces. Doubled stamina cost for sprinting? Lesseded stealth due to metal clinking and heavy footfalls? Twice the time needed to stand up after a knockback? Sinking instead of swimming? All those you might have with historical heavy armor...

Tonnopesce

FINALLY i can go around with a staff in heavy plate armor....But i usually use even light armor for pvp... something is wrong

Mjollnir_NL

I am wondering why heavy armor should give less protetion against magica? As if enchanted cloth brings more protection against magica then metal. Magica protection is like a shield surronding you and it orignated from a sourcefield. Can be metal or cloths. You can enchant everything in this game :P even rocks.

Nightreaver

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's amazing how all the people crying about the heavy armor buffs conveniently forget to bring into the discussion the fact that light armor has 28% higher magicka regeneration, 21% lower magicka costs, 10% more spell crit, and higher spell penetration than heavy armor will ever be able to get.

Would those be the same people that conveniently forget about the Passives for Heavy armor as well?
So just to help all those people with memory problems let's compare passives

1) Heavy armor gets increase to armor and spell resistance based on number of pieces equipped.
Light armor gets increase to only spell resistance based on number of pieces equipped.

2) Heavy armor gets increase to Health regen based on number of pieces equipped. It also restores Magicka and Stamina each time the player is hit up to once every 8 seconds.
Light armor gets increase Magicka regen based on number of pieces equipped. No additional bonus.

3) Heavy armor increases Max Health based on number of pieces equipped.
Light armor reduces Magicka cost based on number of pieces equipped.

4) Heavy armor decreases Stamina cost of Blocking by 10% with 5 pieces equipped.
Light armor increases Spell crit by 10% with 5 pieces equipped.

5) Heavy armor increases Healing received based on number of pieces equipped.
Light armor has a 75% chance when doing damage to reduce a targets spell resistance by for 8 seconds with a full set of Light armor quipped.

6) Heavy armor has 4x the armor rating of Light armor

7) Heavy armor has 4x times the spell resistance of Light armor.

Overall it I feel it seems fairly balanced. I have no problem accepting Heavy armor offering better protection as long as the tin cans have no problem accepting Light armor offering better DPS.

GreyBrow

Nestor wrote: »

Heavy Armor should give the most protection.

Okay smart guy

Lightning staff vs guy in full METAL armor should do a TON of damage.

Light armor should be weak vs steel, strong vs magic.

Heavy armor should be weak vs magic, strong vs steel.

Medium armor should be just that --> medium vs all.

Mjollnir_NL

Even if heavy is OP. Was about time. I just kept on running heavy because in my eyes a tank should look like a tank. And talking about the "Tank" it should have a big gun. Just like real tanks.

Razzak

Nightreaver wrote: »

...

Overall it I feel it seems fairly balanced. I have no problem accepting Heavy armor offering better protection as long as the tin cans have no problem accepting Light armor offering better DPS.

I find this balancing changes to armor a good change. One in right direction, but ... is the increase of Heavy armor's protection comparable to increase of Light armor's DPS?

I think this makes ESO more and more a classic trinity game, as opposed to the notion that it will blur the lines between three classes, that was present before launch. I am Ok with that, but what I am also wondering is: If heavy armor chars are now supposed to be the front line players and Light armor users the ones that stand in the back and dish the damage from a far ... is 1 on 1 now completely out of the question?

Dracane

I'm sad, all of you get me wrong I don't want a nerf for heavy armor. I've said several times, that it makes sense, that heavy armor gives more protection and this is nice.

But while I was teting the difference, I came to recognize, that you almost don't feel the cost reduction and the small spell pen of light armor. That's what this topic is all about. Heavy armor gives high resistances (which is fine) light armor gives almost no resistances. And you also have to take the spell and armor pen of pvp players into account, which leaves you with basically no resistance in pvp with light armor.

BUT the small magic advantage of light armor does not justify the gian gap between heavy and light. That's all I wanted to say.

jdroebuckb16_ESO

Cool. I have been wearing 7x heavy armour since launch, not because it is FOTM but because I like the style. Granted it has gimped me in PvP but I run in a guild group and played my part, I just wasn't the superstar.

This makes perfect sense to me and I have always found it daft that main tanks are wearing skirts in PvE and in PvP everyone runs around in skirts.

I won't explain why I think this is a good move, everyone else in this post as said why it is.

For me, I have played a heavy templar AOE dps with reasonable single target dps. Looks like I am getting crap loads of buffs to my playstyle in 1.6 which is great. The question is... if I find my build is FOTM how will I feel about it? I will probably just get on with it as long as I continue to have fun!

Titansteele

GreyBrow wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Heavy Armor should give the most protection.

Okay smart guy

Lightning staff vs guy in full METAL armor should do a TON of damage.

Light armor should be weak vs steel, strong vs magic.

Heavy armor should be weak vs magic, strong vs steel.

Medium armor should be just that --> medium vs all.

Things start to get silly here clearly, you could argue that under heavy plate you would usually have a jerkin or something similar to stop the chafing. Does that mean heavy armor wearers should get the benefits of light and heavy armor as they are wearing both if you think of it.

I agree with the lightning example, the fire staff could also be a good example with cooked people in tin cans flaying around all over the place but there has to be a line where "fun" has to be considered. If we were talking hyper realistic then a lot of the "fun" would come out of the game. Would all spells be one shot kills? Even at the extreme`s of imagination "healing" in the middle of a fight is a concept that simply could not exist in a "realistic" environment which is where these conversations are verging on in some instances.

Using the example above, if you were in end game content you came across a magic damage based boss would you expect the roles in the group dynamic to have to change? Would you expect the sorc to tank that boss because they had the light armor and then the Dk to tank the next boss as that one was a physical one?

As I see it they dynamic should be pretty clear.

Heavy = High protection against all damage but with the drawback of reduced damage output

Medium = The middle ground

Light = Lowest protection but highest DPS capability

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

I am shocked, how strong heavy armor is now, compared to light armor.
Heavy armor gives you 5 times more armor than light armor and 3 times more spell resistance..

You're shocked that Light isn't OP any more and that Heavy actually is now useful?

Really?

riverdragon72

Stepping out into Cyrodiil in light armor on PTS, you might as well be naked with a roll of toilet paper for a sheild. I tried to get off the porch at sejanus and the snipers had me dead in less than 10 seconds Nothing was "fixed", the imbalance was just flip flopped.

Digiman

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It's amazing how all the people crying about the heavy armor buffs conveniently forget to bring into the discussion the fact that light armor has 28% higher magicka regeneration, 21% lower magicka costs, 10% more spell crit, and higher spell penetration than heavy armor will ever be able to get.

It's all about give and take. Heavy armor takes less damage now, yes, but they still cannot sustain casting as long as someone in light armor. If you play your character right, a light armor caster should be able to outlast a heavy armor tank simply because you've got better resource management.

This would be fine if heavy armor didn't have spell resist that outright makes light armors spell penetration negligible. I was hoping for spell power boost added to light armor skill line to help make it more attractive by the person incharge of it seems to have ignored it.

As for magicka regen and reduce cost, that is out the window when compared to the survivability heavy armor gives and its support to stamina builds.

People are going to be forced to run around in heavy armor to compete in PvP all because the guy incharge of the armor types couldn't think ahead of the changes.

What do we expect from a Skill line designer who has solely based all there attention of stamina?

Medakon

Everything I been reading here is PvP players who cry because everyone gona use heavy armour in pvp, and that they should increase the cost of abilitys etc for heavy armour users. What about the PvE part? how is a tank supposed to hold agro or even dodge attacks if he can't roll since they increased the dodge cost for using heavy armour? means I have to go Medium armour, grab armour enchantments on jewelery just to be able to dodge/cast abilitys.. Whats the point of heavy armour then if you can't move armour, can't hold agro, can't cast abilitys? You just gona stand there like a rock doing nothing...

Here is the solution: Outside PvP areas everything is like it is now, but once you enter cyro you can nerf heavy armour as much as you want. Simple.

Solution 2:
Remove all spell resistance from light armour, and give them spell power/ more magica inctead.

Light armour shoulndt even be near as tanky as a heavy armour user and this is a good fix for PvE side. Deal with it.